This is slightly better than dissipate, but still in the same league.
Worthy enough to be played as a 4 ofs?
Can this replace dissipate completely?
During my few tests, this acts as a pseudo time walk at late game. I play it as a 2-of + 1 dissipate.
And also, this also pseudo - prevent us to false-counter a dummy spell (a spell that worth enough to counter, so if it countered, the next bigger spell will resolves because there is no other counter)
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Will not see play until iether Dissipate or junk decks are out.
Just a bad card.
My thoughts exactly.
I don't think people understand how limited the Silence effect really is.
You have to ask yourself:
How many situations does your opponent attempt to cast two spells in one turn in which case neither of them are Instant speed?
Of those situations, in how many of them are you facing decks where you actually want to carry a three-mana counterspell against?
Then, compare those to situations where Dissipate are better. Exiling the countered spell is especially strong against Reanimator decks, cards with flashback, etc...
Factor in the fact that Render Silent requires white mana. Usually, this isn't a big deal because Blue decks that play three-mana countermagic will likely also play White. However, even in those decks, 1UU is still easier to cast than WUU.
I don't think Render Silent is bad. I just don't see a reason to play it instead of Dissipate.
I don't think people understand how limited the Silence effect really is.
You have to ask yourself:
How many situations does your opponent attempt to cast two spells in one turn in which case neither of them are Instant speed?
Of those situations, in how many of them are you facing decks where you actually want to carry a three-mana counterspell against?
Then, compare those to situations where Dissipate are better. Exiling the countered spell is especially strong against Reanimator decks, cards with flashback, etc...
Factor in the fact that Render Silent requires white mana. Usually, this isn't a big deal because Blue decks that play three-mana countermagic will likely also play White. However, even in those decks, 1UU is still easier to cast than WUU.
I don't think Render Silent is bad. I just don't see a reason to play it instead of Dissipate.
Esper control want to play the game as long as possible, while other deck want to seal the game as fast as possible against esper control. This can make opp want to cast spell (win the game) as soon as possible. And we can stop him to cast >1 spell in the turn, which is HUGE to reach late game. I mean, 3 mana open, and you can guarantee you still have 1 additional turn to dig for answer.
But, against reanimator / snapcaster shenanigans especially, I agree that dissipate still better.
Vs R/x aggro, I think render silent is better than dissipate then. Moreover, this will really shines when INN rotates out.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
I've definitely tried to avoid the 3cc counterspells lately. But there have been NUMEROUS situations where this would be better than Dissapate. Effectively this would be main-deck and 1-3 Dissapate SB.
With Voice and Legion's Initiative, there are so many solid 2-drops right now which means you will see even more multiple castings per turn by your opponent especially on turn 3/4.
This could be exactly what we need for long-game to get to Angel of Serenity or Aetherling (imo, Sphinx Revelation is more of a 1-of now thanks to a couple MAJOR hate cards in DM).
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I've definitely tried to avoid the 3cc counterspells lately. But there have been NUMEROUS situations where this would be better than Dissapate. Effectively this would be main-deck and 1-3 Dissapate SB.
With Voice and Legion's Initiative, there are so many solid 2-drops right now which means you will see even more multiple castings per turn by your opponent especially on turn 3/4.
This could be exactly what we need for long-game to get to Angel of Serenity or Aetherling (imo, Sphinx Revelation is more of a 1-of now thanks to a couple MAJOR hate cards in DM).
This is what i was meant. But, I think Sphinx's Rev will never become a 1of in esper decks because of that matter.. :/
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
I've definitely tried to avoid the 3cc counterspells lately. But there have been NUMEROUS situations where this would be better than Dissapate. Effectively this would be main-deck and 1-3 Dissapate SB.
With Voice and Legion's Initiative, there are so many solid 2-drops right now which means you will see even more multiple castings per turn by your opponent especially on turn 3/4.
This could be exactly what we need for long-game to get to Angel of Serenity or Aetherling (imo, Sphinx Revelation is more of a 1-of now thanks to a couple MAJOR hate cards in DM).
Don't overreact. Sphinx's Rev is still just as good as it always has been. The only playable "hate card" against Rev that I've seen is Notion Theif. But lucky for me, I already know how to play around that. If they have 2UB open, you should keep open 1UU for Dissipate, or hell, even UB for a Warped Physique.
Remember, that the socalled "Hate cards" are only playable in the sideboard, and Notion Theif can only be played in another UBx control deck. Just run more countermagic in the board. Not a big deal.
That said, counterspells will be at an all time low in game 1's now. I suggest running plenty of instant speed kill spells to deal with Sire of Insanity. That is the real hate card against Sphinx's Rev, in case you didn't know. We can't rely too much on counterspells like Render Silent and Dissipate to deal with him, since a smart opponent will force us to tap down for wrath. Warped Physique will handle him most of the time, but Far//Away, Devour Flesh, and Renounce the Guilds should will work as well. Oh yeah, and don't flashback your Think Twices until you have to in case they play him.
Hate cards are scary, but keep in mind that many times it's just about adapting and learning how to work around things. I ran into that 2 mana dude that poops out tokens, and he was a headache... but not at all scary if you avoid playing a ton of spells on their turn unless nessessary. That and if he becomes very popular, we'll be maindecking Terminus again since it doesn't trigger the die effect.
On topic... I agree that it will be a great counter for next season, but I've gotten very used to running as few counters as possible these days. This isn't making me want to run more.
That said, counterspells will be at an all time low in game 1's now. I suggest running plenty of instant speed kill spells to deal with Sire of Insanity. That is the real hate card against Sphinx's Rev, in case you didn't know. We can't rely too much on counterspells like Render Silent and Dissipate to deal with him, since a smart opponent will force us to tap down for wrath. Warped Physique will handle him most of the time, but Far//Away, Devour Flesh, and Renounce the Guilds should will work as well. Oh yeah, and don't flashback your Think Twices until you have to in case they play him.
It's easy to say run instant speed kill spells but the options aren't that great here.
Murder - Yes
Orzhov Charm - Yes (lose 4 life)
Devour Flesh - No (unless they're dumb)
Ultimate Price - No
Renounce the Guilds - Maybe
Putrefy - Yes (have to run green)
Dimir Charm - No
Warped Psyche - Maybe (less likely if you're holding back on Think Twice)
Victim of Night - Yes
Far // Away - Probably
The problem I'm seeing here though is the most reliable answer is Far // Away and against a deck that ramps into Sire of Insanity, we can't use it before they land their guy (and likely we won't have BB at that time either). That significantly reduces the number of answers.
It's easy to say run instant speed kill spells but the options aren't that great here.
Murder - Yes
Orzhov Charm - Yes (lose 4 life)
Devour Flesh - No (unless they're dumb)
Ultimate Price - No
Renounce the Guilds - Maybe
Putrefy - Yes (have to run green)
Dimir Charm - No
Warped Psyche - Maybe (less likely if you're holding back on Think Twice)
Victim of Night - Yes
Far // Away - Probably
The problem I'm seeing here though is the most reliable answer is Far // Away and against a deck that ramps into Sire of Insanity, we can't use it before they land their guy (and likely we won't have BB at that time either). That significantly reduces the number of answers.
Well first off, it is spelled Warped Physique, not Warped Psyche. I keep seeing this throughout the forums and I want to make sure that we get it right.
Next, how are you running out of spells by turn 4/5 against Ramp decks, to the point where Warped Physique won't be able to kill Sire? Warped Physique needs only 4 cards in hand in order to take out Sire of Inanity, that's it. When I play against ramp, I'm not countering Farseeks or killing mana dorks, so I always have a full grip of 6 or 7 cards in hand all the way through turn 6 or so.
Holding back on the flashed back portion of Think Twice is not going to make us run out of cards. The point of not Flashing it back is to have something to do in case they resolve Sire and you are caught unprepared. It is a new card, so mistakes will be made when playing against it in the beginning.
The next I'm not understanding is how you say we won't be able to use Far/Away before they cast their Sire on turn 4. How can we not cast a 2 or 3 mana spell on turn 4? You also wrote BB, and Far/Away is 1U/2B. That is not color intensive at all. I consistently have UB available on turn 2. NVM, I got it, you were talking about BB for Victim of Night. Gotcha. Yeah, I don't use Victim of Night because it is far too color intensive.
Trust me on this guys. Test out Warped Physique for yourselves instead of theorycrafting. I have been testing it since the card was spoiled, and have found it to be the best removal spell in standard for our deck. Nearly unconditional removal for us that ignores Regen and Indestructible is amazing.
Anyways, I'll move my discussion of the non Render Silent cards to the main thread. I'll also give a little review of the best new cards from my viewpoint and testing of how they will fit into our decks in the "Varient Esper Control" thread.
On Topic:
Render Silent: Great card. But like someone before me said, it needs a rotation of Innistrad or a complete lack of Junk Reanimator in the format for it to be played over Dissipate.
And I just realize that my meta doesn't have any reanimator. All are red/x aggro or midrange. So I'll test it once it hit shelf.
And, this maybe quite a bit off, but, Warped Physique is truly amazing. But I'm too scared to play it alone in my removal suit. Maybe 3:2 with Warped:Murder ratio. The other removal, tbh are not good enough. I hate playing a removal when "oh, that one is an unkillable multicolored dude!" or "omg, that's a vampire / zombie / werewolf" or "oh, that thing's power is >2", etc.
Maybe with Warp Physique you "omg, that creature toughness is >than my hand size" but that's recoverable, not something like other removals I mentioned, which if you can't hit the target now, there is no way you can hit it.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
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Worthy enough to be played as a 4 ofs?
Can this replace dissipate completely?
During my few tests, this acts as a pseudo time walk at late game. I play it as a 2-of + 1 dissipate.
And also, this also pseudo - prevent us to false-counter a dummy spell (a spell that worth enough to counter, so if it countered, the next bigger spell will resolves because there is no other counter)
Discuss!
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
My thoughts exactly.
I don't think people understand how limited the Silence effect really is.
You have to ask yourself:
Factor in the fact that Render Silent requires white mana. Usually, this isn't a big deal because Blue decks that play three-mana countermagic will likely also play White. However, even in those decks, 1UU is still easier to cast than WUU.
I don't think Render Silent is bad. I just don't see a reason to play it instead of Dissipate.
Esper control want to play the game as long as possible, while other deck want to seal the game as fast as possible against esper control. This can make opp want to cast spell (win the game) as soon as possible. And we can stop him to cast >1 spell in the turn, which is HUGE to reach late game. I mean, 3 mana open, and you can guarantee you still have 1 additional turn to dig for answer.
But, against reanimator / snapcaster shenanigans especially, I agree that dissipate still better.
Vs R/x aggro, I think render silent is better than dissipate then. Moreover, this will really shines when INN rotates out.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
With Voice and Legion's Initiative, there are so many solid 2-drops right now which means you will see even more multiple castings per turn by your opponent especially on turn 3/4.
This could be exactly what we need for long-game to get to Angel of Serenity or Aetherling (imo, Sphinx Revelation is more of a 1-of now thanks to a couple MAJOR hate cards in DM).
This is what i was meant. But, I think Sphinx's Rev will never become a 1of in esper decks because of that matter.. :/
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Don't overreact. Sphinx's Rev is still just as good as it always has been. The only playable "hate card" against Rev that I've seen is Notion Theif. But lucky for me, I already know how to play around that. If they have 2UB open, you should keep open 1UU for Dissipate, or hell, even UB for a Warped Physique.
Remember, that the socalled "Hate cards" are only playable in the sideboard, and Notion Theif can only be played in another UBx control deck. Just run more countermagic in the board. Not a big deal.
That said, counterspells will be at an all time low in game 1's now. I suggest running plenty of instant speed kill spells to deal with Sire of Insanity. That is the real hate card against Sphinx's Rev, in case you didn't know. We can't rely too much on counterspells like Render Silent and Dissipate to deal with him, since a smart opponent will force us to tap down for wrath. Warped Physique will handle him most of the time, but Far//Away, Devour Flesh, and Renounce the Guilds should will work as well. Oh yeah, and don't flashback your Think Twices until you have to in case they play him.
On topic... I agree that it will be a great counter for next season, but I've gotten very used to running as few counters as possible these days. This isn't making me want to run more.
It's easy to say run instant speed kill spells but the options aren't that great here.
Murder - Yes
Orzhov Charm - Yes (lose 4 life)
Devour Flesh - No (unless they're dumb)
Ultimate Price - No
Renounce the Guilds - Maybe
Putrefy - Yes (have to run green)
Dimir Charm - No
Warped Psyche - Maybe (less likely if you're holding back on Think Twice)
Victim of Night - Yes
Far // Away - Probably
The problem I'm seeing here though is the most reliable answer is Far // Away and against a deck that ramps into Sire of Insanity, we can't use it before they land their guy (and likely we won't have BB at that time either). That significantly reduces the number of answers.
Next, how are you running out of spells by turn 4/5 against Ramp decks, to the point where Warped Physique won't be able to kill Sire? Warped Physique needs only 4 cards in hand in order to take out Sire of Inanity, that's it. When I play against ramp, I'm not countering Farseeks or killing mana dorks, so I always have a full grip of 6 or 7 cards in hand all the way through turn 6 or so.
Holding back on the flashed back portion of Think Twice is not going to make us run out of cards. The point of not Flashing it back is to have something to do in case they resolve Sire and you are caught unprepared. It is a new card, so mistakes will be made when playing against it in the beginning.
The next I'm not understanding is how you say we won't be able to use Far/Away before they cast their Sire on turn 4. How can we not cast a 2 or 3 mana spell on turn 4? You also wrote BB, and Far/Away is 1U/2B. That is not color intensive at all. I consistently have UB available on turn 2. NVM, I got it, you were talking about BB for Victim of Night. Gotcha. Yeah, I don't use Victim of Night because it is far too color intensive.
Trust me on this guys. Test out Warped Physique for yourselves instead of theorycrafting. I have been testing it since the card was spoiled, and have found it to be the best removal spell in standard for our deck. Nearly unconditional removal for us that ignores Regen and Indestructible is amazing.
Anyways, I'll move my discussion of the non Render Silent cards to the main thread. I'll also give a little review of the best new cards from my viewpoint and testing of how they will fit into our decks in the "Varient Esper Control" thread.
On Topic:
Render Silent: Great card. But like someone before me said, it needs a rotation of Innistrad or a complete lack of Junk Reanimator in the format for it to be played over Dissipate.
And, this maybe quite a bit off, but, Warped Physique is truly amazing. But I'm too scared to play it alone in my removal suit. Maybe 3:2 with Warped:Murder ratio. The other removal, tbh are not good enough. I hate playing a removal when "oh, that one is an unkillable multicolored dude!" or "omg, that's a vampire / zombie / werewolf" or "oh, that thing's power is >2", etc.
Maybe with Warp Physique you "omg, that creature toughness is >than my hand size" but that's recoverable, not something like other removals I mentioned, which if you can't hit the target now, there is no way you can hit it.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube