So, I'm going to my first physical Legacy tournament in about a month, and I've got this list thrown together... From the playtesting I've done so far, it runs fairly well despite my lack of dual lands and Dark Confidant (I can tell the CA would help a lot, but I don't have another $140 to drop).
I've reviewed the deck quite a bit in the last few weeks, and think I might have found a decent configuration for the deck. I'm having some trouble deciding if I should up the Bitterblossom and Sylvan Library count at the expense of creatures, since I do run out of steam pretty quickly... Also strongly considering Gerrard's Verdict as a supplement to Liliana and the Inquisitions, since it works between the two as solid disruption.
As always, comments and suggestions greatly appreciated!
As it is, I'm still noticing the lack of dual and fetch lands A LOT... Not being able to Turn-1 Inquisition and follow it with a Teeg or Pridemage hurts more often than not.
Still looking for constructive advise, bearing in mind budget, etc.
I have a separate deck list for the more Maverick-flavored suggestions I've been given, but I'm still holding a little bit of hope that this list will show just as much success (I'll bite though- that may just be wistful thinking...). That in mind, I'd appreciate it if posters kept this list in mind a GWB, and not as a conversion into GW.
Should I ever be able to afford the full list, it would probably look closer to this:
The sideboard is fairly tentative, and since I already have a decent amount of art/ench hate mainboard, I'm not so sure about the K-Grips.
What I've heard about the metagame is that Combo won the most recent competition, and is fairly likely to be hated out, for all that's worth.
Constructive criticism accepted and desired, thank you in advance!
kataki when you are running 4 aether vial, jitte, cursed scroll, phyrexian revoker, ethersworn canonist.
Also, I see no reason why you arent running revised dual lands.
Since you aren't tutoring, I see no reason why you don't want leonin arbiter. Also, why no stoneforge mystic? That card is REALLY good. Batterskull invalidates merfolk and most aggro matchups.
Also, thalia, garden of thraben seems like she would be a great addition.
Since you aren't tutoring, I see no reason why you don't want leonin arbiter. Also, why no stoneforge mystic? That card is REALLY good. Batterskull invalidates merfolk and most aggro matchups.
I'm not a fan of 4 Surgical Extractions, though (it's not often even card parity--all it does is beat up combo), and I'd rather see Tidehollow Scullers in the deck for the hand mugging (possibly at instant speed with a Vial out).
I could run SFM -seeing as I already have a copy of both Sword of War and Peace and Batterskull- with a pretty minimal investment, but the need to tutor is pretty counter-productive to Leonin Arbiter.
Though on that note, Extraction itself seems counter-productive to the Arbiter... Likely not a problem if I play smart, but who knows. >.<
Do you think that the Scullers would be necessary in addition to the discard spells I already have? And do you think that might be overcrowding the CMC=2 area, or is it reasonable to play that many 2-drops?
Also; I rarely find Kataki to be prohibitive to my own plans, especially considering that (If I play him turn-2) I'll most likely only ever need to pay 1-or-2 mana for upkeep costs. I do appreciate the input, though!
Thalia was also a consideration for me when I put the deck together, more-or-less in competition with Teeg and Kataki. The only reason I opted away from it was to financial constraints, though with it being in standard, I'm sure I could find a copy or two fairly easily.
SFM does really seem to good to pass up, considering the build, and it would help a lot with the aggro matchup. Funeral Charm just seems to be far too relevant to the game's current threats to not consider any slots for, so I'm testing it as additional discard versus faster decks.
SFM does really seem to good to pass up, considering the build, and it would help a lot with the aggro matchup. Funeral Charm just seems to be far too relevant to the game's current threats to not consider any slots for, so I'm testing it as additional discard versus faster decks.
I would run Living Wish as well, cut down on dead MD cards. Living Wish also grants the ability for Utility Lands.
I like the idea of a Wishboard, given the deck's purpose, but almost the entirety of that revision to the deck is well out of my price range...
The closest I could reasonably get to Vindicate would be Maelstrom Pulse -likewise War and Peace to the Light and Shadow and Inquisition to the Thoughtseizes- and I have yet to find any reasonable replacements for Dark Confidant or the Duals (much to my disdain...).
Keep in mind that although I do want this deck to play competitively, spending that much money at once would force a person in my financial situation to sell my clothing and nearly starve through the entire time through the tournament. Maybe some day in the future I'll be able to bring the deck to a 'finalized' form, but until then please understand.
As far as the other opinions go, I'll test the deck with swapping out the Cranial Extractions to see if I miss them. If I don't, that gives me 4 more maindeck slots to play with, even if it is only for cards from the SB...
Not a terrible idea, actually kind of reminiscent of the final iteration of the green and black splashing death and taxes decks that evolved out of lewis laskin's green and taxes build. However, I'm not sure it's where you want to be right now, and I definitely wouldn't be running three colors (and Hymn to Tourach of all things!) with those terrible duals, no offense. If you really can't afford Zendikar fetches and Ravnica duals, and maybe even if you can, why not just build a budget Maverick deck?
It seems like you're willing to invest in Stoneforges and a Batterskull from what you've said, so I would probably start with 4 of those and three equipments (batterskull, jitte, sword of whatever), 4 Mother of Runes, 4 Pridemages, and 4 Knight of the Reliquary. Add GSZ and a toolbox, perhaps, and 2-3 Aven Mindcensors, which go well with your idea here. Revokers and Arbiters could stay put if those are your thing, and Vial still works though it would lack synergy with GSZ.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Updated the first post to reflect changes in progress.
Also to let you guys know that I'm not just blowing off your suggestions; I'm trying to keep to the GWB color-scheme and fill the lands in later so that I don't end up with a deck completely different than what I set out to do.
Obviously, I would absolutely love to get my hands on Scavenging Ooze, but I have to stick with SB Leyline of the Void for now. The mana base is quite stable, but I've been in situations where I really wanted more Plains and Forests to bin with Knight. Sometimes I think I need 4 Mindcensor because I already run Ghost Quarter (DAMN YOU WASTELAND), but I wouldn't know what to cut. I also think Gerrard's Verdict is better than Tidehollow Sculler. I think Ghastly Demise and Mother of Runes would work very well in this deck, but again, deck space is tight.
I was thinking of running Cabal Therapy over Inquisition, but it would change the deck considerably. It could add multiple Thalias and Veteran Explorers.
The new list has actually been running very smoothly! I'm not sure if I picked the correct non-creature hate cards (Relic and Sphere namely) for an open environment, but the rest of the deck feels like it works pretty well.
I'm considering dropping one of the hate cards for another E-Tutor, maybe dropping the other hate card for a singleton Engineered Explosives or somesuch... I'm not sure what the tournament's meta is going to be like, and I feel like EE is more open than other hate-cards I could run in its place.
Also thinking about switching the SB Maelstrom Pulse with Edicts, Day/Wrath/Damnation, or something similar for non-targeted removal. Possibly -1 Revoker, +1 Troll Ascetic or Silhana Ledgewalker in the main board; everything's low p/t and easily removable with Snapcasters doubling as StP 5-8 in some builds... The Hexproof creatures aren't tutorable in my current list, but the Library does add some much needed CA to help with that...
Decided against both EE and Deeds, as well as the MD singletons.
The new adjustments vastly improve the deck's performance against most aggro strategies, but weaken it considerably against combo and control. I'm not sure if the trade-off is negligable without further testing, but I feel the discard and Canonist/Revoker keep me in a fair position against Storm combo at least.
Wrath of God was a bit of a niche call, but I feel like I'm going to be seeing enough of Geist and similar heavily creature-oriented decks to make it useful... My only other worry is regarding Humility, which I also feel like I'll see enough to worry me.
As always, comments appreciated! I might not follow your suggestions, but I do like hearing opinions.
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I've reviewed the deck quite a bit in the last few weeks, and think I might have found a decent configuration for the deck. I'm having some trouble deciding if I should up the Bitterblossom and Sylvan Library count at the expense of creatures, since I do run out of steam pretty quickly... Also strongly considering Gerrard's Verdict as a supplement to Liliana and the Inquisitions, since it works between the two as solid disruption.
As always, comments and suggestions greatly appreciated!
My current incarnation:
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Skinshifter
2 Epochrasite
Artifacts:
4 AEther Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Cursed Scroll
Enchantments:
1 Sylvan Library
2 Bitterblossom
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Instants:
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Swords to Plowshares
Planeswalkers:
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands:
2 Forest
5 Swamp
6 Plains
3 Woodland Cemetery
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Funeral Charm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Wrath of God
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
As it is, I'm still noticing the lack of dual and fetch lands A LOT... Not being able to Turn-1 Inquisition and follow it with a Teeg or Pridemage hurts more often than not.
Still looking for constructive advise, bearing in mind budget, etc.
I have a separate deck list for the more Maverick-flavored suggestions I've been given, but I'm still holding a little bit of hope that this list will show just as much success (I'll bite though- that may just be wistful thinking...). That in mind, I'd appreciate it if posters kept this list in mind a GWB, and not as a conversion into GW.
Should I ever be able to afford the full list, it would probably look closer to this:
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Scrubland
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
Past builds:
1st Draft:
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 AEther Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Cursed Scroll
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Plains
3 Woodland Cemetery
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Isolated Chapel
1 Duress
4 City of Solitude
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Cursed Scroll
4 Krosan Grip
1 Phyrexian Revoker
The sideboard is fairly tentative, and since I already have a decent amount of art/ench hate mainboard, I'm not so sure about the K-Grips.
What I've heard about the metagame is that Combo won the most recent competition, and is fairly likely to be hated out, for all that's worth.
Constructive criticism accepted and desired, thank you in advance!
Also, I see no reason why you arent running revised dual lands.
Since you aren't tutoring, I see no reason why you don't want leonin arbiter. Also, why no stoneforge mystic? That card is REALLY good. Batterskull invalidates merfolk and most aggro matchups.
Also, thalia, garden of thraben seems like she would be a great addition.
Legacy:WUBG Jace Rock
Trade thread
Sig by: heroes of the plane studios
The OP runs 4 Leonin Arbiters in his/her deck. That and budget reasons may be reasons why there is no Stoneforge Mystic.
I'm not a fan of 4 Surgical Extractions, though (it's not often even card parity--all it does is beat up combo), and I'd rather see Tidehollow Scullers in the deck for the hand mugging (possibly at instant speed with a Vial out).
Though on that note, Extraction itself seems counter-productive to the Arbiter... Likely not a problem if I play smart, but who knows. >.<
Do you think that the Scullers would be necessary in addition to the discard spells I already have? And do you think that might be overcrowding the CMC=2 area, or is it reasonable to play that many 2-drops?
Also; I rarely find Kataki to be prohibitive to my own plans, especially considering that (If I play him turn-2) I'll most likely only ever need to pay 1-or-2 mana for upkeep costs. I do appreciate the input, though!
Thalia was also a consideration for me when I put the deck together, more-or-less in competition with Teeg and Kataki. The only reason I opted away from it was to financial constraints, though with it being in standard, I'm sure I could find a copy or two fairly easily.
1 Cursed Scroll
3 Path to Exile
2 Funeral Charm
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
SFM does really seem to good to pass up, considering the build, and it would help a lot with the aggro matchup. Funeral Charm just seems to be far too relevant to the game's current threats to not consider any slots for, so I'm testing it as additional discard versus faster decks.
I would run Living Wish as well, cut down on dead MD cards. Living Wish also grants the ability for Utility Lands.
I also don't like Surgical Main.
Here would be my Suggestions
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersowrn Canonist
2 Qasali Pridemage
Sorcery
2 Vindicate
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Living Wish
Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
WishBoard
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Faerie Mcabre
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Thrun, The last Troll
3 Thoughtseize
Thank you mchief111, great sig
Lvl 37 Planeswalker
Current:
Legacy:
:symu::symb::symr::symw::symg: TES | Spiral Tide | MUD | :symu::symb::symg: Lands | Burn | :symr::symbg: Goblins | Elf Combo
Vintage:
:symb::symu: Titan Dredge | :symb::symu::symw: Bomberman
Modern:
:symu::symr: Kiki-Twin | :symr::symg: Tron
Standard:
Wip
EDH:
:symb::symu::symw: Zur
The closest I could reasonably get to Vindicate would be Maelstrom Pulse -likewise War and Peace to the Light and Shadow and Inquisition to the Thoughtseizes- and I have yet to find any reasonable replacements for Dark Confidant or the Duals (much to my disdain...).
Keep in mind that although I do want this deck to play competitively, spending that much money at once would force a person in my financial situation to sell my clothing and nearly starve through the entire time through the tournament. Maybe some day in the future I'll be able to bring the deck to a 'finalized' form, but until then please understand.
As far as the other opinions go, I'll test the deck with swapping out the Cranial Extractions to see if I miss them. If I don't, that gives me 4 more maindeck slots to play with, even if it is only for cards from the SB...
It's an updated version of Brawl into an epic, new game.
It seems like you're willing to invest in Stoneforges and a Batterskull from what you've said, so I would probably start with 4 of those and three equipments (batterskull, jitte, sword of whatever), 4 Mother of Runes, 4 Pridemages, and 4 Knight of the Reliquary. Add GSZ and a toolbox, perhaps, and 2-3 Aven Mindcensors, which go well with your idea here. Revokers and Arbiters could stay put if those are your thing, and Vial still works though it would lack synergy with GSZ.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Also to let you guys know that I'm not just blowing off your suggestions; I'm trying to keep to the GWB color-scheme and fill the lands in later so that I don't end up with a deck completely different than what I set out to do.
Thank you everybody for your feedback!
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Lotus Cobra
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Green sun's Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
3 Path to Exile
Artifact (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
Land (22)
2 City of Brass
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Obviously, I would absolutely love to get my hands on Scavenging Ooze, but I have to stick with SB Leyline of the Void for now. The mana base is quite stable, but I've been in situations where I really wanted more Plains and Forests to bin with Knight. Sometimes I think I need 4 Mindcensor because I already run Ghost Quarter (DAMN YOU WASTELAND), but I wouldn't know what to cut. I also think Gerrard's Verdict is better than Tidehollow Sculler. I think Ghastly Demise and Mother of Runes would work very well in this deck, but again, deck space is tight.
I was thinking of running Cabal Therapy over Inquisition, but it would change the deck considerably. It could add multiple Thalias and Veteran Explorers.
I'm considering dropping one of the hate cards for another E-Tutor, maybe dropping the other hate card for a singleton Engineered Explosives or somesuch... I'm not sure what the tournament's meta is going to be like, and I feel like EE is more open than other hate-cards I could run in its place.
Also thinking about switching the SB Maelstrom Pulse with Edicts, Day/Wrath/Damnation, or something similar for non-targeted removal. Possibly -1 Revoker, +1 Troll Ascetic or Silhana Ledgewalker in the main board; everything's low p/t and easily removable with Snapcasters doubling as StP 5-8 in some builds... The Hexproof creatures aren't tutorable in my current list, but the Library does add some much needed CA to help with that...
The new adjustments vastly improve the deck's performance against most aggro strategies, but weaken it considerably against combo and control. I'm not sure if the trade-off is negligable without further testing, but I feel the discard and Canonist/Revoker keep me in a fair position against Storm combo at least.
Wrath of God was a bit of a niche call, but I feel like I'm going to be seeing enough of Geist and similar heavily creature-oriented decks to make it useful... My only other worry is regarding Humility, which I also feel like I'll see enough to worry me.
As always, comments appreciated! I might not follow your suggestions, but I do like hearing opinions.