Hey guys, I've finally gotten back from deployment and hope to try my hand at Legacy. I have a decklist I concocted, but I don't know if this is the right place to post this. It attempts to merge multiple decks (Landstill, Thopter Combo, SFM.dec) into a single unit, very similarly to how ThopterSword and Dark Depths merged into a cohesive deck during Extended two years ago. Please keep in mind that this is only Theory crafting and any help making the deck a more cohesive unit would be appreciated (@ Mods: Wasn't sure if this deserved it's own thread.. if not feel free to merge it):
It's well known that the reason ThopterDepths was such a formidable deck was that it had two clear paths to victory utilizing two very different combos that required different answers. The deck flowed very smoothly because it had overlapping utility cards like Tolaria West and Muddle the Mixture that allowed the player to search for pieces of each combo. This gave the player a great sense of flexibility, and we all know flexibility wins games. This deck attempts to copy that philosophy, but utilizes the impressive card pool of Legacy instead.
Main Win Condition: Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek: This combo is quite powerful and fits well into a midrange/control shell.
Alternate Win Condition: Batterskull: An unexpected beast against some of the more removal light decks, dropping it turn 3 via SFM may be all it takes to steal the game.
Alternate Win Condition 2: Jace, the Mind Sculptor: A great card that synergizes well with the various shuffle effects and can double as a win con with his ultimate. OP doesn't even begin to describe him.
Utility Cards: Stoneforge Mystic: Supports our first two wincons by searching out Sword of the Meek or Batterskull. Enlighted Tutor: Can search for our first two wincons, but is able to find answers as well (see Engineered Explosives). I'm tempted to find room for Crucible of Worlds as well to improve our matchup against Wasteland heavy decks. Muddle the Mixture: Can search for your entire suite of creatures, both combo pieces, and Standstill, all while underneath a Standstill. Tolaria West: Can search for Engineered Explosives along with any land you need, all while underneath a Standstill. Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Obviously overpowered and essential (IMO) if you're playing blue, the various shuffle effects provide added utility to an already broken card.
If anyone sees anything that could be improved (like focusing the deck a bit or suggesting a card that may synergize even better than cards already proposed), I would love to hear it.
I like your ideas here, but I have a few suggestions. I would suggest running at least two cunning wish as it really opens up a lot of space in your deck, and with a list this crowded, you need it. Four mental misstep is too many, Mental misstep is a good card, but you need to find room for at least 2 good old fashioned Counterspells. 3 stoneforge mystic is probably too many if you are only running one batterskull. Bob is good but you have a high curve, maybe focus on standstill for card draw, and add a singleton Ancestral Visions if you really need it. Sensei's Divining Top is pretty awesome for these types of decks, allowing for you to really make your tutors count by fortune telling your next three draws. CoW is amazing in 'Still decks. Mishra's Factories that never die and CoW-Wasteland lock are pretty amazing. If you are going for UWbg Control-Combo then I would try to run a Pernicious Deed or two in addition to Explosives.
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I like your ideas here, but I have a few suggestions. I would suggest running at least two cunning wish as it really opens up a lot of space in your deck, and with a list this crowded, you need it. Four mental misstep is too many, Mental misstep is a good card, but you need to find room for at least 2 good old fashioned Counterspells. 3 stoneforge mystic is probably too many if you are only running one batterskull. Bob is good but you have a high curve, maybe focus on standstill for card draw, and add a singleton Ancestral Visions if you really need it. Sensei's Divining Top is pretty awesome for these types of decks, allowing for you to really make your tutors count by fortune telling your next three draws. CoW is amazing in 'Still decks. Mishra's Factories that never die and CoW-Wasteland lock are pretty amazing. If you are going for UWbg Control-Combo then I would try to run a Pernicious Deed or two in addition to Explosives.
Thanks for the response Duke!
Here's a list of some of your suggestions and why I either want to stay clear or think it's genius
1. I'm still a little torn on whether or not Cunning Wish would be a welcome addition to the list, but it seems worth testing. I've played with it a bit in traditional Landstill lists and its always been solid. What targets would you suggest?
2. Hmm, less than 4 MM huh.. I guess I can try that out, though I have my doubts since sooo many decks are running it and it (obviously) is its own best answer.
3. I don't think CS is a necessity in this deck. After some changes (thanks to testing and your response) the deck has shifted its focus to making SFM its main win con, and having combo be the alternate win con. Because of this, I need a higher density of tempo counters than anything else since it allows me to run out my threats early without having to worry as much.
4. I did take out Bob, per your suggestion (though I'd like to note I only had 7 cards over 4 mana in the deck) and focused the deck a bit.
5. I might put Deed in the sideboard as a one of, since I can tutor for it post-board, but main board it just doesn't seem necessary since I already have E.E.
Also, what do people think of Time Sieve? Too slow? You can tutor it up with E. Tutor or Muddle, and it provides the deck a way to get infinite turns. Is it worth the 1 spot (probably get rid of V. Clique for it)?
Here's a list of some of your suggestions and why I either want to stay clear or think it's genius
1. I'm still a little torn on whether or not Cunning Wish would be a welcome addition to the list, but it seems worth testing. I've played with it a bit in traditional Landstill lists and its always been solid. What targets would you suggest?
2. Hmm, less than 4 MM huh.. I guess I can try that out, though I have my doubts since sooo many decks are running it and it (obviously) is its own best answer.
3. I don't think CS is a necessity in this deck. After some changes (thanks to testing and your response) the deck has shifted its focus to making SFM its main win con, and having combo be the alternate win con. Because of this, I need a higher density of tempo counters than anything else since it allows me to run out my threats early without having to worry as much.
4. I did take out Bob, per your suggestion (though I'd like to note I only had 7 cards over 4 mana in the deck) and focused the deck a bit.
5. I might put Deed in the sideboard as a one of, since I can tutor for it post-board, but main board it just doesn't seem necessary since I already have E.E.
Also, what do people think of Time Sieve? Too slow? You can tutor it up with E. Tutor or Muddle, and it provides the deck a way to get infinite turns. Is it worth the 1 spot (probably get rid of V. Clique for it)?
As far as wish targets go, you want to think answers and chance multipliers.
Things like path to exile are good so that you can run 4 StP and then have 2 to 3 more shots in your deck at hitting a good removal spell. A trick I like to use is to run 1 less of instants I would normally run mainboard and move them to the wish board. So I'll have a Brainstorm or an enlightened tutor sideboarded. you plan on controlling the game, so you aren't always looking to slam down your combo ASAP but rather play it protected behind counter spells. Because you are running 3 straight copies of the card and then 2 or 3 cunning wish, your chances of seeing that card are higher In this case, it doesn't really matter as much that your E. Tutor's cost 4 (wish+tutor EOT). Here are some wishboard cards I have used for my UWr Thopterstill deck. Obviously, some of these won't work for you without red but it gives you an idea what kind of stuff works well with Cunning Wish
Hey guys, I've finally gotten back from deployment and hope to try my hand at Legacy. I have a decklist I concocted, but I don't know if this is the right place to post this. It attempts to merge multiple decks (Landstill, Thopter Combo, SFM.dec) into a single unit, very similarly to how ThopterSword and Dark Depths merged into a cohesive deck during Extended two years ago. Please keep in mind that this is only Theory crafting and any help making the deck a more cohesive unit would be appreciated (@ Mods: Wasn't sure if this deserved it's own thread.. if not feel free to merge it):
2 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolaria West
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
Creatures
3 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Enlighted Tutor
4 Mental Misstep
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
3 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Brainstorm
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Batterskull
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Engineered Explosives
15 Cards that do Something against the meta
It's well known that the reason ThopterDepths was such a formidable deck was that it had two clear paths to victory utilizing two very different combos that required different answers. The deck flowed very smoothly because it had overlapping utility cards like Tolaria West and Muddle the Mixture that allowed the player to search for pieces of each combo. This gave the player a great sense of flexibility, and we all know flexibility wins games. This deck attempts to copy that philosophy, but utilizes the impressive card pool of Legacy instead.
Main Win Condition:
Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek: This combo is quite powerful and fits well into a midrange/control shell.
Alternate Win Condition:
Batterskull: An unexpected beast against some of the more removal light decks, dropping it turn 3 via SFM may be all it takes to steal the game.
Alternate Win Condition 2:
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: A great card that synergizes well with the various shuffle effects and can double as a win con with his ultimate. OP doesn't even begin to describe him.
Utility Cards:
Stoneforge Mystic: Supports our first two wincons by searching out Sword of the Meek or Batterskull.
Enlighted Tutor: Can search for our first two wincons, but is able to find answers as well (see Engineered Explosives). I'm tempted to find room for Crucible of Worlds as well to improve our matchup against Wasteland heavy decks.
Muddle the Mixture: Can search for your entire suite of creatures, both combo pieces, and Standstill, all while underneath a Standstill.
Tolaria West: Can search for Engineered Explosives along with any land you need, all while underneath a Standstill.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: Obviously overpowered and essential (IMO) if you're playing blue, the various shuffle effects provide added utility to an already broken card.
If anyone sees anything that could be improved (like focusing the deck a bit or suggesting a card that may synergize even better than cards already proposed), I would love to hear it.
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
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UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
Thanks for the response Duke!
Here's a list of some of your suggestions and why I either want to stay clear or think it's genius
1. I'm still a little torn on whether or not Cunning Wish would be a welcome addition to the list, but it seems worth testing. I've played with it a bit in traditional Landstill lists and its always been solid. What targets would you suggest?
2. Hmm, less than 4 MM huh.. I guess I can try that out, though I have my doubts since sooo many decks are running it and it (obviously) is its own best answer.
3. I don't think CS is a necessity in this deck. After some changes (thanks to testing and your response) the deck has shifted its focus to making SFM its main win con, and having combo be the alternate win con. Because of this, I need a higher density of tempo counters than anything else since it allows me to run out my threats early without having to worry as much.
4. I did take out Bob, per your suggestion (though I'd like to note I only had 7 cards over 4 mana in the deck) and focused the deck a bit.
5. I might put Deed in the sideboard as a one of, since I can tutor for it post-board, but main board it just doesn't seem necessary since I already have E.E.
The new decklist is: -3 Dark Confidant, -1 Mental Misstep, +1 Sword of Body and Mind, +1 Stoneforge Mystic, +1 Crucible of Worlds, +1 Vendilion Clique.
Also, what do people think of Time Sieve? Too slow? You can tutor it up with E. Tutor or Muddle, and it provides the deck a way to get infinite turns. Is it worth the 1 spot (probably get rid of V. Clique for it)?
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
As far as wish targets go, you want to think answers and chance multipliers.
Things like path to exile are good so that you can run 4 StP and then have 2 to 3 more shots in your deck at hitting a good removal spell. A trick I like to use is to run 1 less of instants I would normally run mainboard and move them to the wish board. So I'll have a Brainstorm or an enlightened tutor sideboarded. you plan on controlling the game, so you aren't always looking to slam down your combo ASAP but rather play it protected behind counter spells. Because you are running 3 straight copies of the card and then 2 or 3 cunning wish, your chances of seeing that card are higher In this case, it doesn't really matter as much that your E. Tutor's cost 4 (wish+tutor EOT). Here are some wishboard cards I have used for my UWr Thopterstill deck. Obviously, some of these won't work for you without red but it gives you an idea what kind of stuff works well with Cunning Wish
if I were to C. Wish out your list I would do it like this:
2 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolaria West
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
Creatures (1)
1 Vendillion Clique
Utility (19)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Cunning Wish
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Brainstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Standstill
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Mental Misstep
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Force of Will
Removal (5)
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Engineered Explosives
Win (4)
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Batterskull
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Brainstorm
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Mental Misstep
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW