So I was planting a garden in my back yard today (for no good reason except my wife wants to pretend to have a green thumb).
I was thinking to myself.. these plants which are grown from veggies I got in a store are most likely GME seeds. (The kind makers like Monsanto don't want to be reproducing).
A lot of people have complained that GME seeds are bad for food production because they eliminiate the seed saving and ultimately make the food supply dependant on them. Thus they can charge whatever they want.
Then I got to thinking.. well in a food crisis nobody would enforce silly laws like that. We'd have police guarding farms from poachers.
On the other hand we haven't really seen a food crisis like that in the states. Ours has always been the other side. "I have so many dang crops it's not profitable to get them/ship them" which made me think about government subsidies not to grow and of course all the starving people on the other side of the world.
It made me just wonder.. if the government succeded in monopolizing health care, what would they go after next. Energy maybe? Food?
Can you imagine the taxes as government workers pick your tomatoes rather than migrant labor? Why taxes? well we can't let the food prices get out of control right?
Is the difference that I can grow food in my back yard if the prices get bad but I can't do my own surgery?
These are my thoughts. There should be enough fodder there to keep you guys busy. I need to go turn on the mist now.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
The government has a fairly heavy hand in the food industry, in the form of farm subsidies and food stamps.
Food stamps are analogous to Medicaid.
Farm subsidies have no perfect analogue in the US, but in countries where all people get government-subsidized health care, that is somewhat analogous to farm subsidies.
Also, please note that the government has not made any attempt to obtain a monopoly on health care.
Might be GMO.. Genetically Modified Organism. Basically how it works in the simplest cases is a company like Monsanto (who makes round up the weed killer) modifies the plant genetically to be imune to round up.
Thus you can spray the whole dang field from a plane and not kill the crops.
Also, please note that the government has not made any attempt to obtain a monopoly on health care.
Hillarycare? The Afordable Healthcare act is simply a stepstone to a single payer system for all but the very wealthy.
Private Mod Note
():
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Might be GMO.. Genetically Modified Organism. Basically how it works in the simplest cases is a company like Monsanto (who makes round up the weed killer) modifies the plant genetically to be imune to round up.
Thus you can spray the whole dang field from a plane and not kill the crops.
You guys do wash your veggies right?
Oh, ok. I'm used to GMO, but I hadn't heard GME before, so I wasn't sure if it was something different.
I'm fine with the concept of genetically modified food, however I think there should be regulations against terminator seeds and restrictions on biological patents.
Hillarycare? The Afordable Healthcare act is simply a stepstone to a single payer system for all but the very wealthy.
I don't know if you've noticed, but there is no support for that in Congress. Or, for that matter, in the White House. Obama basically took the option off the table.
There are people who would like a single payer system, and I am one of them, but it is not happening yet, no one is seriously trying to make it happen, and it may never happen.
There is one type of terminator seed that I like, and that's teh ones that make watermelons with no seeds.
However they never quite get as ripe. Any time I discuss this with someone I remember stopping in GA at my dad's cousin's house.
He was feeding his cows with his extra watermelons because they weren't worth taking to market.
We took 13 home and ate 8 of them. They were the reddest sweetest watermelons I've ever had in my life. Unless I go back up there in season I doub't I'll ever eat watermelon like that again.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Farming is a pretty piss poor business to be in these days as far as profit goes. I live in an area surrounded by farmland, and talking with the farmers makes me understand just how hard they have to work to turn a profit these days. Even then, the government really does prop up farmers quite a bit. Its a conundrum, because we all want affordable food, but that the same time farmers should be self sufficent enough to not need the government hold them up.
As for GMO seeds, there are no longer any seeds humans plant that have not been genetically modified. We've bred, re-bred, and cross-bred our crops so much that scientists are just taking most of the guesswork out of it.
The issue are the patents, not the modifications. There's a number of issues where farmers would "steal" the "genes" by basically being down wind of some guy using the GMO seeds and his seeds would have airborne sex and therefore the companies would sue over their "genetic rights."
There are also severe issues where "genetic property rights" are slowing down research into areas such as cancer research, even when the research is in the academic sector these companies have indeed went after professors and the like doing basic research.
I've basically become rather agitated over the whole problem considering that other countries are basically giving us the middle finger over such "property rights" and are economically benefiting from the research yet our companies can't compete because a handful of people want a monopoly over something that exists in a lot of other areas.
To be honest, if companies that sell seeds can exist for hundreds of years we can go a few hundred more without the head aches that come with such patents.
Private Mod Note
():
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Farm subsidies have no perfect analogue in the US, but in countries where all people get government-subsidized health care, that is somewhat analogous to farm subsidies.
The US has farm subsidies. They go to growing corn, soy, wheat, and rice, primarily. You can also get them for using biotechnology. Actually, without them, biotechnology would be a dead-end industry.
The net result is a lot of cheap sugar, white bread, and white rice.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The US has farm subsidies. They go to growing corn, soy, wheat, and rice, primarily. You can also get them for using biotechnology. Actually, without them, biotechnology would be a dead-end industry.
The net result is a lot of cheap sugar, white bread, and white rice.
And the aformentioned corn which is of course used to produce ethanol at a net loss energy.
If these ethanol plants were at least run on Nuclear or Wind power it would make sense, but right now its a sham.
Of course then you would just tell me.. so why run on ethanol when I can plug my car into the nuke plant, and I would say.. good idea what about long distance.
And you would say.. well we have this clean burning natural gas combined with an electric engine you could run a big rig half way from NY to CA without having to fuel up, and I'd call you T Boone Pickens.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
It seems like your argument is against government subsides more than farming in general. But those subsides exist because farming pays so little. Its a function of supply and demand, when something is easy to come by it doesn't cost that much. And as a society we are far better off when people aren't starving in the streets food is very inexpensive. The modern food supply however isn't inexpensive. But it's not just the modern food supply, farmers have always been at the bottom rung of society. In this way subsidies are a good thing as they artificially increase the price of food so that the market doesn't collapse.
Personally I'd like to see subsides funneled for growing a crop rather than not growing it. I agree with you on ethanol though, its a colossal waste of resources to grow food to turn into fuel. Especially when the technology has already moved on, they are turning sugarcane into ethanol in Brazil with much better efficiency.
On making money off farming there are two ways, the commercially done way of growing so much that the volume makes up for the low sale price. I mean after you have 1 50,000 dollar harvester there is no reason not to use it. The other way is to sell at a premium, organic and local sourced growers turn profits by selling their goods at much higher prices than large farms.
One last thing, most crops are grow in mono-culture. I mean one particular variety. Go to the store and look at potatoes, you'll see three or four varieties. But the Peruvians cultivate several hundred kinds of potatoes, these other varieties can be sold at a premium as they often taste better. Or modern crops were not chosen for their taste but for their ease of cultivation and their shelf life.
It seems like your argument is against government subsides more than farming in general. ...
Personally I'd like to see subsides funneled for growing a crop rather than not growing it. I agree with you on ethanol though, its a colossal waste of resources to grow food to turn into fuel. Especially when the technology has already moved on, they are turning sugarcane into ethanol in Brazil with much better efficiency.
On making money off farming there are two ways, the commercially done way of growing so much that the volume makes up for the low sale price. I mean after you have 1 50,000 dollar harvester there is no reason not to use it. The other way is to sell at a premium, organic and local sourced growers turn profits by selling their goods at much higher prices than large farms.
One last thing, most crops are grow in mono-culture. I mean one particular variety. Go to the store and look at potatoes, you'll see three or four varieties. But the Peruvians cultivate several hundred kinds of potatoes, these other varieties can be sold at a premium as they often taste better. Or modern crops were not chosen for their taste but for their ease of cultivation and their shelf life.
I wasn't really making an argument as much as my thoughts on farming. There might be an argument in there (like ethanol) but I just get upset looking at a $5 box of corn flakes that should cost $2. I'm more ticked off at the 10% mix mandate than anything else. Most new cars have been converted to run it ok, but older cars and small motors like lawnmowers and boat motors burn ethanol very poorly. (It tears them up like nobody's business).
Large combines cost a lot more than 50k. My dad's cousin has a peanut combine that cost just shy of $1M. Of course it does serious work so he rents it out to neighboring farms for 1k/hr.
You do have a good point on the varieties of crops. It's all about yield and shelf life. I've heard that we are just finishing up a potato crop from a couple years ago that have been stored at 5 degrees ever since.
I know it would be controlling prices, but other than land staying fallow it makes more sense for the feds to buy the food than to pay for non production. Of course in the south more and more farm land gets absorbed for rural (suburban) housing so that makes up for some of the excess.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
The issue are the patents, not the modifications. There's a number of issues where farmers would "steal" the "genes" by basically being down wind of some guy using the GMO seeds and his seeds would have airborne sex and therefore the companies would sue over their "genetic rights."
There are also severe issues where "genetic property rights" are slowing down research into areas such as cancer research, even when the research is in the academic sector these companies have indeed went after professors and the like doing basic research.
I've basically become rather agitated over the whole problem considering that other countries are basically giving us the middle finger over such "property rights" and are economically benefiting from the research yet our companies can't compete because a handful of people want a monopoly over something that exists in a lot of other areas.
To be honest, if companies that sell seeds can exist for hundreds of years we can go a few hundred more without the head aches that come with such patents.
I've heard about this, and frankly its silly. If they did not actively try to get those seeds, and you basically allowed your plants to pollinate with the other persons (by putting them upwind), I fail to understand how its the other guys fault. That's like suing someone because your purebreed male dog got out of YOUR yard, and knocked up your neighbors *****, there by giving him more valuable puppies.
I've heard about this, and frankly its silly. If they did not actively try to get those seeds, and you basically allowed your plants to pollinate with the other persons (by putting them upwind), I fail to understand how its the other guys fault. That's like suing someone because your purebreed male dog got out of YOUR yard, and knocked up your neighbors *****, there by giving him more valuable puppies.
This is the stuff that come out of the 90's when no one was really looking, and most people were ga-ga over the culture wars. Come to think of it when this stuff was decided in the courts it was around the Lewinsky Scandle, actually.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I think that companies are generally good/neutral.
Monsanto is evil.
Check out that corporation. It has pulled some hilariously evil things. The lawsuits, suicide gene or anything to do with Roundup in India should make you a bit suspicious of the corporation.
I think that companies are generally good/neutral.
Monsanto is evil.
Check out that corporation. It has pulled some hilariously evil things. The lawsuits, suicide gene or anything to do with Roundup in India should make you a bit suspicious of the corporation.
I would say at best Corporations are Lawful evil, At worst Chaotic evil. Corporations are the ONLY "persons" in the world that a) only have 1 legal responsibility that is thrust on them "Make money". (yes that IS a legal responsibility you CAN sue them for NOT making money) b) the ability to bypass all justice in favor of "fines". This leads them to 1) make decisions based on overal profit/loss 2) Equate the value of a life based on how much money that life can give them. This has allowed corporations to i) exploit loopholes in order to make money ii) Blantantly ignore reserch that "this product will KILL people" if it makes them money and then from that use loopholes in bankrupty laws to keep the money.
I would say at best Corporations are Lawful evil, At worst Chaotic evil. Corporations are the ONLY "persons" in the world that a) only have 1 legal responsibility that is thrust on them "Make money". (yes that IS a legal responsibility you CAN sue them for NOT making money) b) the ability to bypass all justice in favor of "fines". This leads them to 1) make decisions based on overal profit/loss 2) Equate the value of a life based on how much money that life can give them. This has allowed corporations to i) exploit loopholes in order to make money ii) Blantantly ignore reserch that "this product will KILL people" if it makes them money and then from that use loopholes in bankrupty laws to keep the money.
How is that anything except LE too CE?
Are we talking Greyhawk alignment or Eberron alignment?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
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I was thinking to myself.. these plants which are grown from veggies I got in a store are most likely GME seeds. (The kind makers like Monsanto don't want to be reproducing).
A lot of people have complained that GME seeds are bad for food production because they eliminiate the seed saving and ultimately make the food supply dependant on them. Thus they can charge whatever they want.
Then I got to thinking.. well in a food crisis nobody would enforce silly laws like that. We'd have police guarding farms from poachers.
On the other hand we haven't really seen a food crisis like that in the states. Ours has always been the other side. "I have so many dang crops it's not profitable to get them/ship them" which made me think about government subsidies not to grow and of course all the starving people on the other side of the world.
It made me just wonder.. if the government succeded in monopolizing health care, what would they go after next. Energy maybe? Food?
Can you imagine the taxes as government workers pick your tomatoes rather than migrant labor? Why taxes? well we can't let the food prices get out of control right?
Is the difference that I can grow food in my back yard if the prices get bad but I can't do my own surgery?
These are my thoughts. There should be enough fodder there to keep you guys busy. I need to go turn on the mist now.
Food stamps are analogous to Medicaid.
Farm subsidies have no perfect analogue in the US, but in countries where all people get government-subsidized health care, that is somewhat analogous to farm subsidies.
Also, please note that the government has not made any attempt to obtain a monopoly on health care.
Might be GMO.. Genetically Modified Organism. Basically how it works in the simplest cases is a company like Monsanto (who makes round up the weed killer) modifies the plant genetically to be imune to round up.
Thus you can spray the whole dang field from a plane and not kill the crops.
You guys do wash your veggies right?
Hillarycare? The Afordable Healthcare act is simply a stepstone to a single payer system for all but the very wealthy.
Oh, ok. I'm used to GMO, but I hadn't heard GME before, so I wasn't sure if it was something different.
I'm fine with the concept of genetically modified food, however I think there should be regulations against terminator seeds and restrictions on biological patents.
There are people who would like a single payer system, and I am one of them, but it is not happening yet, no one is seriously trying to make it happen, and it may never happen.
However they never quite get as ripe. Any time I discuss this with someone I remember stopping in GA at my dad's cousin's house.
He was feeding his cows with his extra watermelons because they weren't worth taking to market.
We took 13 home and ate 8 of them. They were the reddest sweetest watermelons I've ever had in my life. Unless I go back up there in season I doub't I'll ever eat watermelon like that again.
As for GMO seeds, there are no longer any seeds humans plant that have not been genetically modified. We've bred, re-bred, and cross-bred our crops so much that scientists are just taking most of the guesswork out of it.
Soldier Primer
Sig by ol MISAKA lo
My Trades
There are also severe issues where "genetic property rights" are slowing down research into areas such as cancer research, even when the research is in the academic sector these companies have indeed went after professors and the like doing basic research.
I've basically become rather agitated over the whole problem considering that other countries are basically giving us the middle finger over such "property rights" and are economically benefiting from the research yet our companies can't compete because a handful of people want a monopoly over something that exists in a lot of other areas.
To be honest, if companies that sell seeds can exist for hundreds of years we can go a few hundred more without the head aches that come with such patents.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
The US has farm subsidies. They go to growing corn, soy, wheat, and rice, primarily. You can also get them for using biotechnology. Actually, without them, biotechnology would be a dead-end industry.
The net result is a lot of cheap sugar, white bread, and white rice.
On phasing:
And the aformentioned corn which is of course used to produce ethanol at a net loss energy.
If these ethanol plants were at least run on Nuclear or Wind power it would make sense, but right now its a sham.
Of course then you would just tell me.. so why run on ethanol when I can plug my car into the nuke plant, and I would say.. good idea what about long distance.
And you would say.. well we have this clean burning natural gas combined with an electric engine you could run a big rig half way from NY to CA without having to fuel up, and I'd call you T Boone Pickens.
Personally I'd like to see subsides funneled for growing a crop rather than not growing it. I agree with you on ethanol though, its a colossal waste of resources to grow food to turn into fuel. Especially when the technology has already moved on, they are turning sugarcane into ethanol in Brazil with much better efficiency.
On making money off farming there are two ways, the commercially done way of growing so much that the volume makes up for the low sale price. I mean after you have 1 50,000 dollar harvester there is no reason not to use it. The other way is to sell at a premium, organic and local sourced growers turn profits by selling their goods at much higher prices than large farms.
One last thing, most crops are grow in mono-culture. I mean one particular variety. Go to the store and look at potatoes, you'll see three or four varieties. But the Peruvians cultivate several hundred kinds of potatoes, these other varieties can be sold at a premium as they often taste better. Or modern crops were not chosen for their taste but for their ease of cultivation and their shelf life.
I wasn't really making an argument as much as my thoughts on farming. There might be an argument in there (like ethanol) but I just get upset looking at a $5 box of corn flakes that should cost $2. I'm more ticked off at the 10% mix mandate than anything else. Most new cars have been converted to run it ok, but older cars and small motors like lawnmowers and boat motors burn ethanol very poorly. (It tears them up like nobody's business).
Large combines cost a lot more than 50k. My dad's cousin has a peanut combine that cost just shy of $1M. Of course it does serious work so he rents it out to neighboring farms for 1k/hr.
You do have a good point on the varieties of crops. It's all about yield and shelf life. I've heard that we are just finishing up a potato crop from a couple years ago that have been stored at 5 degrees ever since.
I know it would be controlling prices, but other than land staying fallow it makes more sense for the feds to buy the food than to pay for non production. Of course in the south more and more farm land gets absorbed for rural (suburban) housing so that makes up for some of the excess.
I've heard about this, and frankly its silly. If they did not actively try to get those seeds, and you basically allowed your plants to pollinate with the other persons (by putting them upwind), I fail to understand how its the other guys fault. That's like suing someone because your purebreed male dog got out of YOUR yard, and knocked up your neighbors *****, there by giving him more valuable puppies.
Soldier Primer
Sig by ol MISAKA lo
My Trades
This is the stuff that come out of the 90's when no one was really looking, and most people were ga-ga over the culture wars. Come to think of it when this stuff was decided in the courts it was around the Lewinsky Scandle, actually.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Monsanto is evil.
Check out that corporation. It has pulled some hilariously evil things. The lawsuits, suicide gene or anything to do with Roundup in India should make you a bit suspicious of the corporation.
I would say at best Corporations are Lawful evil, At worst Chaotic evil. Corporations are the ONLY "persons" in the world that a) only have 1 legal responsibility that is thrust on them "Make money". (yes that IS a legal responsibility you CAN sue them for NOT making money) b) the ability to bypass all justice in favor of "fines". This leads them to 1) make decisions based on overal profit/loss 2) Equate the value of a life based on how much money that life can give them. This has allowed corporations to i) exploit loopholes in order to make money ii) Blantantly ignore reserch that "this product will KILL people" if it makes them money and then from that use loopholes in bankrupty laws to keep the money.
How is that anything except LE too CE?
Are we talking Greyhawk alignment or Eberron alignment?
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.