I saw this ability on a custom card earlier and liked it a lot. I'm wondering how someone would word it and how to balance it on a creature. Here it is:
Mysterious Apparition2UU
Creature - Spirit (R)
Flying
~ is unaffected by spells and abilities that don't target it.
4/4
I'm guessing the wording is supposed to be akin to the reminder text for haste, but I'm not sure it's correct.
As I have said before with this mechanic, at the very least it would need to be written out more specifically as "instant and sorcery spells and activated and triggered abilities". The only kind of spell that this would apply to are instants and sorceries. Just saying all abilities would also exclude the static abilities of Auras and Equipment that are attached to it. This would cause other untargeted enchantments like Night of Souls' Betrayal to also affect it, but that would the cost of getting it to work as expected with Auras and Equipment. It is wacky enough that there could easily be other problems with it too that I am not thinking of.
Dismiss(If this permanent would be put in any other zone by a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability effect that don't have it as a target, instead tap this permanent)
EDIT:
for creatures Dismiss(If this permanent would be put in any other zone by a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability that don't have it as a target, instead tap this permanent.If this permanent would be dealt damage by a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability that don't have it as a target, Prevent that damage)
I saw this ability on a custom card earlier and liked it a lot. I'm wondering how someone would word it and how to balance it on a creature. Here it is:
Mysterious Apparition2UU
Creature - Spirit (R)
Flying
~ is unaffected by spells and abilities that don't target it.
4/4
I'm guessing the wording is supposed to be akin to the reminder text for haste, but I'm not sure it's correct.
You've got a bit of a contradiction there; both 'flying' and '~ is unaffected by spells and abilities that don't target it' are static abilities that don't target the creature in question.
Also, 4 mana for a flying 4/4 is undercosted, especially in Blue.
Aloof (This permanent is unaffected by abilities that have "all creatures" in their text.)
There are still things that get around this, like Edicts or certain niche cards, but I think this almost accomplishes what you're going for.
Overload only works because the cards with it were crafted specifically to work certain phrasing. There are other phrasings for samey abilities though. Cuing off a specific phrase isn't going to work unless you have a list of several similar but different phrases. Silklash Spider, Ætherize, Overrun, etc.
You've got a bit of a contradiction there; both 'flying' and '~ is unaffected by spells and abilities that don't target it' are static abilities that don't target the creature in question.
Ahh, yes. THAT was the other big problem with including all abilities. It also screws up other abilities that are printed on the creature, so they would all essentially be vanilla creatures.
Aloof (This creature is unaffected by instant and sorcery spells that don't target it or activated and triggered abilities that don't target it.)
Probably something else that is a problem with it.
I rather like leslak's dismiss, but it's only a (much) worse indestructible.
It seems like the wording has to get pretty convoluted in order to permit static abilities on the card to work. Hm, how about:
Singular
"If a spell or ability that does not target this card would change this card's status, characteristics, (abilities? or are those part of characteristics,) or zone, or would add or remove counters from it, and the same spell or ability would change another card's status &c. in the same way, it does not change those facts about this card."
So this permits anything that specifically points at the creature in question including Auras and Equipment and things that are "your choice" instead of targeted, but it successfully replaces Night of Souls' Betrayal, except if it's the only creature on the field, which is a problematic corner case. You could repair it, but it would take you even farther into crazyland:
Singular
"Assume that there is a card in the same zone as this card except it's not legendary and doesn't have singular. While this assumption is true, if a spell or ability that does not target this card would change this card's status, characteristics, (abilities? or are those part of characteristics,) or zone, or would add or remove counters from it, and the same spell or ability would change another card's status &c. in the same way, it does not change those facts about this card."
Including a test that has a phantom hypothetical card in it is probably more than most players want to deal with, even if you did shrink that down into reminder text that looks more like deidarakoon's formulation.
I rather like leslak's dismiss, but it's only a (much) worse indestructible.
It seems like the wording has to get pretty convoluted in order to permit static abilities on the card to work. Hm, how about:
Singular
"If a spell or ability that does not target this card would change this card's status, characteristics, (abilities? or are those part of characteristics,) or zone, or would add or remove counters from it, and the same spell or ability would change another card's status &c. in the same way, it does not change those facts about this card."
So this permits anything that specifically points at the creature in question including Auras and Equipment and things that are "your choice" instead of targeted, but it successfully replaces Night of Souls' Betrayal, except if it's the only creature on the field, which is a problematic corner case. You could repair it, but it would take you even farther into crazyland:
Singular
"Assume that there is a card in the same zone as this card except it's not legendary and doesn't have singular. While this assumption is true, if a spell or ability that does not target this card would change this card's status, characteristics, (abilities? or are those part of characteristics,) or zone, or would add or remove counters from it, and the same spell or ability would change another card's status &c. in the same way, it does not change those facts about this card."
Including a test that has a phantom hypothetical card in it is probably more than most players want to deal with, even if you did shrink that down into reminder text that looks more like deidarakoon's formulation.
Our hypothetical card now dies to Savage Twister and the like, since damage marked on a permanent is neither part of its status or characteristics.
Quote from Comprehensive Rules »
109.3. An object's characteristics are name, mana cost, color, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, abilities, power, toughness, loyalty, hand modifier, and life modifier. Objects can have some or all of these characteristics. Any other information about an object isn't a characteristic. For example, characteristics don't include whether a permanent is tapped, a spell's target, an object's owner or controller, what an Aura enchants, and so on.
Quote from Comprehensive Rules »
110.6. A permanent's status is its physical state. There are four status categories, each of which has two possible values: tapped/untapped, flipped/unflipped, face up/face down, and phased in/phased out. Each permanent always has one of these values for each of these categories.
I think we're well past canned worms here! These are canned wurms.
The puzzle is intriguing because "shroud, except backwards" is a really intuitive and grabby concept, and the idea of putting it on a card is really exciting; it's a bummer that Progenitus, despite its protection from everything status, can still be taken down by a Terminus.
And that wording still wouldn't work against any effect that detects creatures but doesn't specifically interact with them, like the later clauses of Mayael's Aria.
I do feel like there is a way that you can design a test that looks at what happens in an imaginary, modified game state and bases its results on what happens in that game state, but it's too complex to ever be printable in that formulation.
I think we're well past canned worms here! These are canned wurms.
The puzzle is intriguing because "shroud, except backwards" is a really intuitive and grabby concept, and the idea of putting it on a card is really exciting; it's a bummer that Progenitus, despite its protection from everything status, can still be taken down by a Terminus.
I think an unspoken fundamental design rule in Magic is that everything is vulnerable to something.
EDIT: The bit about canned worms/wurms is reference to a comment I made earlier, then deleted - read up on the rulings for Equinox to see how far hypotheticals can stretch in Magic.
I'm simple-minded. I'd just go for the version that ignores spells only - activated and triggered abilities that can remove a creature have a higher ratio of targeted removal than spells, so you would get the better half of the effect just by making the creature immune to spells.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
How about something like this:
"This permanent is unaffected by effects and abilities that do not contain the word 'target' other than those on this permanent."
or
"Whenever a player plays a spell or ability that doesn't target a creature, phase this permanent out. After that spell or ability resolves, phase it back in. Any static ability that does not target a creature does not recognize this permanent as a permanent."
Would I be correct in saying that phasing in and out doesn't change states or characteristics?
Let's see if we can take advantage of the new rules (post M2010) for phasing here.
Mysterious Apparition 2UU
Creature - Spirit
Flying
As long as Mysterious Apparition is the target of a spell or ability, it can't phase out.
:0mana:: Mysterious Apparition phases out.
:0mana:: Mysterious Apparition phases in. Play this ability only if Mysterious Apparition is phased out.
4/4
It's still affected by continuous effects like Humility and Gravity Sphere, but achieves most of what you wanted to get out of the card. Should not be a 4/4 at this cost, though.
If this ability can be gained, then it can also screw up triggered abilities like bushido. More problems though make me reevaluate the problem and come at it from a different direction.
Things that should not be excluded:
1) Spells and abilities that target it.
2) Abilities of Auras and Equipment that are attached to it.
3) Abilities of the creature itself.
Aloof (Spells and abilities of other sources don't affect this creature unless they target it or are attached to it.)
That is what I would use, until I think of the next thing that it screws up mistakenly. ... For example, it also comes to mind that it screws with some combat abilities like Engulfing Slagwurm even though that would flavor-wise make sense to affect an aloof creature, but there is no simple way to allow that kind of ability and they are infrequent enough not to worry about that problem.
I think evasion abilities of other creatures like Stromkirk Noble and Bladetusk Boar would still work. However, must-block abilities like Lure and can't-block abilities like Falter wouldn't work and the aloof creature could block as its controller chooses. I think an aloof creature might be able to block Wandering Wolf because of the way that the effect is ordered.
Ruling on Fog? Does the aloof creature still deal combat damage? Is the aloof creature still dealt combat damage? Rules-wise, damage prevention works by putting a damage prevention "shield" on a creature or player that would be dealt damage, so sort of backwards but I think that it would make sense if Fog would not prevent combat damage dealt to an aloof creature, but it would still prevent damage dealt to other creatures and players.
Ruling on Fog? Does the aloof creature still deal combat damage? Is the aloof creature still dealt combat damage? Rules-wise, damage prevention works by putting a damage prevention "shield" on a creature or player that would be dealt damage, so sort of backwards but I think that it would make sense if Fog would not prevent combat damage dealt to an aloof creature, but it would still prevent damage dealt to other creatures and players.
That seems to make sense with the rules.
Just as a point of interest, can you make a reverse-Fog (one that only lets aloof creatures assign damage) work, by using replacement effects instead of prevention? Say,
Clearest Day1W
Instant
Until end of turn, sources that would deal combat damage don't.
It would make for an interesting tactical wrinkle in choosing what fogs to include in your decks.
In my opinion, the easiest way to make a creature that is difficult to remove with sweeper spells, but easy to remove with targeted removal is a combination of indestructibility and the phantasmal ability.
Something like this would work:
Phantasmal Coatl 1UG
Creature - Snake Illusion
Phantasmal Viper is indestructible.
When Phantasmal Coatl becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it.
3/3
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Mysterious Apparition 2UU
Creature - Spirit (R)
Flying
~ is unaffected by spells and abilities that don't target it.
4/4
I'm guessing the wording is supposed to be akin to the reminder text for haste, but I'm not sure it's correct.
There are still things that get around this, like Edicts or certain niche cards, but I think this almost accomplishes what you're going for.
effectthat don't have it as a target, instead tap this permanent)EDIT:
for creatures
Dismiss(If this permanent would be put in any other zone by a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability that don't have it as a target, instead tap this permanent.If this permanent would be dealt damage by a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability that don't have it as a target, Prevent that damage)
You've got a bit of a contradiction there; both 'flying' and '~ is unaffected by spells and abilities that don't target it' are static abilities that don't target the creature in question.
Also, 4 mana for a flying 4/4 is undercosted, especially in Blue.
EDIT: Apparently not - Conundrum Sphinx. I hate power creep...
Overload only works because the cards with it were crafted specifically to work certain phrasing. There are other phrasings for samey abilities though. Cuing off a specific phrase isn't going to work unless you have a list of several similar but different phrases. Silklash Spider, Ætherize, Overrun, etc.
Ahh, yes. THAT was the other big problem with including all abilities. It also screws up other abilities that are printed on the creature, so they would all essentially be vanilla creatures.
Aloof (This creature is unaffected by instant and sorcery spells that don't target it or activated and triggered abilities that don't target it.)
Probably something else that is a problem with it.
It seems like the wording has to get pretty convoluted in order to permit static abilities on the card to work. Hm, how about:
Singular
"If a spell or ability that does not target this card would change this card's status, characteristics, (abilities? or are those part of characteristics,) or zone, or would add or remove counters from it, and the same spell or ability would change another card's status &c. in the same way, it does not change those facts about this card."
So this permits anything that specifically points at the creature in question including Auras and Equipment and things that are "your choice" instead of targeted, but it successfully replaces Night of Souls' Betrayal, except if it's the only creature on the field, which is a problematic corner case. You could repair it, but it would take you even farther into crazyland:
Singular
"Assume that there is a card in the same zone as this card except it's not legendary and doesn't have singular. While this assumption is true, if a spell or ability that does not target this card would change this card's status, characteristics, (abilities? or are those part of characteristics,) or zone, or would add or remove counters from it, and the same spell or ability would change another card's status &c. in the same way, it does not change those facts about this card."
Including a test that has a phantom hypothetical card in it is probably more than most players want to deal with, even if you did shrink that down into reminder text that looks more like deidarakoon's formulation.
Our hypothetical card now dies to Savage Twister and the like, since damage marked on a permanent is neither part of its status or characteristics.
The puzzle is intriguing because "shroud, except backwards" is a really intuitive and grabby concept, and the idea of putting it on a card is really exciting; it's a bummer that Progenitus, despite its protection from everything status, can still be taken down by a Terminus.
And that wording still wouldn't work against any effect that detects creatures but doesn't specifically interact with them, like the later clauses of Mayael's Aria.
I do feel like there is a way that you can design a test that looks at what happens in an imaginary, modified game state and bases its results on what happens in that game state, but it's too complex to ever be printable in that formulation.
I think an unspoken fundamental design rule in Magic is that everything is vulnerable to something.
EDIT: The bit about canned worms/wurms is reference to a comment I made earlier, then deleted - read up on the rulings for Equinox to see how far hypotheticals can stretch in Magic.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
"This permanent is unaffected by effects and abilities that do not contain the word 'target' other than those on this permanent."
or
"Whenever a player plays a spell or ability that doesn't target a creature, phase this permanent out. After that spell or ability resolves, phase it back in. Any static ability that does not target a creature does not recognize this permanent as a permanent."
Would I be correct in saying that phasing in and out doesn't change states or characteristics?
G MGC
WB Teysa Tokens
BR Wortsnort
UG 23.5-No Edric
URG Noncombo Animar
GUB Damia Stax
WBR Alesha Hatebear Recursion
WBR Daddy Tariel
UBR [Je]love-a Your Deck
GWU Almost Critterless Enchantress
WUB Sydri+Artifacts=WUB
WURG Glint-Eye Combo
Mysterious Apparition
2UU
Creature - Spirit
Flying
As long as Mysterious Apparition is the target of a spell or ability, it can't phase out.
:0mana:: Mysterious Apparition phases out.
:0mana:: Mysterious Apparition phases in. Play this ability only if Mysterious Apparition is phased out.
4/4
It's still affected by continuous effects like Humility and Gravity Sphere, but achieves most of what you wanted to get out of the card. Should not be a 4/4 at this cost, though.
Things that should not be excluded:
1) Spells and abilities that target it.
2) Abilities of Auras and Equipment that are attached to it.
3) Abilities of the creature itself.
That is what I would use, until I think of the next thing that it screws up mistakenly. ... For example, it also comes to mind that it screws with some combat abilities like Engulfing Slagwurm even though that would flavor-wise make sense to affect an aloof creature, but there is no simple way to allow that kind of ability and they are infrequent enough not to worry about that problem.
I think evasion abilities of other creatures like Stromkirk Noble and Bladetusk Boar would still work. However, must-block abilities like Lure and can't-block abilities like Falter wouldn't work and the aloof creature could block as its controller chooses. I think an aloof creature might be able to block Wandering Wolf because of the way that the effect is ordered.
Ruling on Fog? Does the aloof creature still deal combat damage? Is the aloof creature still dealt combat damage? Rules-wise, damage prevention works by putting a damage prevention "shield" on a creature or player that would be dealt damage, so sort of backwards but I think that it would make sense if Fog would not prevent combat damage dealt to an aloof creature, but it would still prevent damage dealt to other creatures and players.
Just as a point of interest, can you make a reverse-Fog (one that only lets aloof creatures assign damage) work, by using replacement effects instead of prevention? Say,
Clearest Day 1W
Instant
Until end of turn, sources that would deal combat damage don't.
It would make for an interesting tactical wrinkle in choosing what fogs to include in your decks.
Something like this would work:
Phantasmal Coatl 1UG
Creature - Snake Illusion
Phantasmal Viper is indestructible.
When Phantasmal Coatl becomes the target of a spell or ability, sacrifice it.
3/3