I'm not entirely sure that this is where this post goes, so feel free to move it if needed.
I'm writing an action sequence in which the main character is using a chain as a weapon (think ninja assassin) and I want this particular fight to be unfavorable to him in every possible aspect, so I'm wondering what kind of weapon would best combat said chain while still painting an exciting visual picture. My first thought was a spear, as that is flexible and provides reach, but it seems a bit boring. I'm leaning towards some sort of polearm, like a ransuer or a halberd.
Also, if it matters at all, the weilder of the second weapon is a woman. (Appears approximately 28-34 years of age, but with kind of ageless features).
Curious to hear some ideas from some fresh perspectives, but please give some sort of reasoning as to why your weapon would be favored in the match up (reach, style, etc).
For reference sake, the chain is about 15-20 ft in total length. One end is weighted with a spiked ball (not super huge, just big enough to give it sufficient weight, let's say about the size of a softball, maybe a bit smaller), while the other side is a long thin blade (stiletto like, about a foot long) with two backward curving blades at the base (think a fleur de lis).
Thanks in advanced!
I came up with a fictional weapon a while back. Not sure how pertinent it would be to your story, but it was a modified macuahuitl. They're basically long clubs with sharp bits of obsidian on it. Really nasty melee weapons. Anyway, my idea of what this macuahuitl would be was with Japanese steel with pieces of gigantic sharp diamonds on it.
The chain could wrap around the club and a pull back might snap it. A bit implausible but might work.
A good counter to a melee weapon would be a ranged weapon. They can't hit you if they don't get close. At first I wanted to be snarky and suggest a gun, but then I thought about how projectile weapons would be a legitimate counter. Maybe a bow, a crossbow or a a throwing weapon (knifes or spears) of some sort?
Assuming no "ninja darkness" or naruto jutsu, there is no way someone on foot with a chain could beat someone on horseback with a bow.
Challenge mode, armored horse and rider. Horse is a warhorse. Will tear through any kind of chain to trip it. If rider has generally solid armor, only a stabbing can kill her and in limited areas. Getting to those areas would be difficult assuming she is raining down arrows while running away or chasing.
The weapon being described doesn't sound like anything that has appeared in real life, or if it has, being so unweildy/not note worthy to the point of being useless. Whatever fight it will be in will a shonen-type deal with fantastic or inhuman moves. The kusarigama, for instance, was used to entangle, and the blade part was used as a melee weapon if you couldn't. On the other hand, flails were meant to impart impact, and flails with spikes were used primarily against an armored opponent. This weapon has a blade on the end of a ball at the end of a long chain. As an entangling weapon, it may work, but then the spike and the recurve blade have little use, as you hit with the chain if you're trying to entangle, not with the spike/ball. If you're trying to hit with the ball, then the entangling part isn't used. I'm not even sure what the recurve blades are for.
tl;dr -- it's a fantasy weapon, wielded by a character that likely has unnatural strength and skill/skillset.
As such, if you want to counter it, _anything_ will do. You've already stepped beyond realism here. It isn't the weapon that's important, but how you write it.
You have to ask yourself: what is your goal in the scene? If it is to show either characters being badass, give the other guy some equally improbable weapon. Maybe he has a wooden shield, and when the spiked ball hits it, it gets impaled and stuck. Maybe he has no weapon or armor at all, and using his superior mobility to get under/over the chain. Is the opponent a throw away character/redshirt, or a recurring one? If recurring, then you can just make up a fighting style that oddly counters the fighting style of a giant ball with chain wielder. Is the battle in an open field with enough space to swing that chain around? If so, chain wielder has an advantage, no matter what weapon the other guy brings into the fight.
Off hand, barring projectiles, I'd go with something like a foil or a rapier. Part of the reason why flails and heavy melee weapons became obsolete is because of gunpowder -- no amount of mideaval armor is going to stop a musketball. See: three musketeers, who had rapiers. People stopped wearing armor, so a light, handy weapon was a better choice.
Dart in, stab while he's swinging his weapon or something. Skill became more important than sheer damage.
But then, we're back to fantasy, high-action sequence. It would be extremely boring if a fencer just ducked then stabbed someone who was swinging a ball and chain around, so I'm guessing the character is capable of countering something like that, no matter how unlikely. Also, a fencer with what amounts to a giant pin wouldn't be able to pull off weird, action-sequency blocks, making for a boring fight. Like I said, it would be a simple dodge+dodge+stab->fight over.
The female character is the main antagonist and is meant to completely dominate this particular fight. She will be back for more.
Both characters have learned to harness their mental prowess to the point where they can use it to manipulate the way the weapons work. This makes the chain weilder particularly dangerous as his seemingly difficult to control weapon can make very precise strikes. The backwards facing blades (and to an extent, the spiked ball) are used to disarm and sunder opposing weapons with said precise strikes, as the character tends to shy away from killing in favor of a disarm and intimidate strategy. Its length also serves to protect his allies from a distance while still keeping himself safe.
Throwing knives and such projectiles are abundantly used among nearly every character, leading the main character to be very adept at dodging/blocking/etc. They will be used, but not as the opponents main weapon.
Normally, I absolutely love bows of any sort, but I'm kind of leaning away from that sort of projectile type weapon, as they're too bulky to be effective, given that ranged combat doesn't tend to last long. The exception being longbows (Japanese style, so 1 1/2 times the height of a person) as the chosen sniping weapon, but those are seen as a dishonorable method of killing.
The fight is taking place in a small (let's say about 30 ft across) clearing surrounded by a semi-dense wooded area. There are a total of 4 people fighting in the clearing, so there's enough room for the chain to operate if he's careful to avoid allies.
@batterysrevenge, can I assume that your weapon is essentially a giant spiked club? If so, I quite like the idea of that as an effective counter, given that the strength required to use it would make it an unfamiliar to the main character due to how uncommon it would be. Also, it would be nigh impossible to sunder or disarm such a weapon, giving further advantage to the woman. I'm a bit concerned that it might be nearly useless defensively though, as the chain weilder could manipulate his weapon to snake around it for a direct hit.
I'm generally a big fan or rapiers and the like (almost always a Dex based classes in DnD, grabbing weapon finesse asap), and rapiers can be used very well with the speed that the character has, but I'm concerned that a direct hit from the ball should probably just snap the blade in half. I think that something like a staff with rapier-like blades on each end might work just as well, while allowing for more flashy combat, and better defensive capabilities. Maybe the two halves could even come apart and be used as two separate swords.
Have a lot to think about so far, thanks guys, keep the ideas coming!
I could see tonfas working against it, by rotating the tonfas around it can make a 'bat/swat' motion that could move/alter the direction of the chain.
Problem here is that it would set your character as having amazing focus.concentration a trait that must be maintained throughout or else i becomes rather Mary Sue in nature.
Another weapon of choice, a tri-staff, you have to google the proper name since it skips me at the moment, the fact it can become a pseudo ranged weapon while tangling the chain in its other two segments makes it a rather strong matchup.
Depending on how far you take the 'Mental Power' aspect even a plain fist/gauntlet can be used, but this would show some insane level of mastery, like grandmaster level stuff, not what you want for a character development moment
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You can probably find youtube videos of people messing around with each to get an idea of how they move. Just be careful, there are a lot of dumb martial arts videos on youtube, and it's always annoying seeing 'kung fu' users with Japanese Weapons doing pretty looking but ineffective things.
It's important to note that, unlike the chain weapon in Ninja Assassin, these chains were generally around 3ish feet. They're incredibly impractical any longer, and the amount of muscle strength alone to swing something like a 20 foot chain is just silly, much less a chain with a weighted, spiked ball like you describe. The weights on the ends are generally no more than a pound or two heavier than the links in the chain, and only so that it has some more heft when throwing. If you want something that long, it should be made of rope, not chain.
Now, as far as your suggestions, polearms are actually a terrible idea for facing a weighted chain. Part of their purpose to to disarm attackers, the chain could easy wrap around the weapon and pull it out of the opponent's hand. You don't want anything that is long or slow to move. If you want your chain-wielder to have a disadvantage, have him face someone with a ranged weapon or some kind of distraction (like someone throwing knives to keep him off balance).
That huge length of chain is going to be very slow, no matter how strong your character is, so a nimble fighter with a short-range or ranged weapon would be more effective than someone with a long weapon. Remember that the weighted chain-type weapons are designed to entangle enemies, so your best opponents are those that won't easily be entangled by the long length of material.
If the opponent is a woman, I would suggest using two of some of the following weapons: Katar, Bagh Nakh or Tessen. Since I believe the best way to counter a chain-like weapon is to get up close and personal so they cannot use the advantages of a chain very well. Of course getting close requires a lot of agilty, but that is qnother matter. Also, the weapons I mentioned is not easily disarmed due to the relatively small size and/or odd placing.
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I'm writing an action sequence in which the main character is using a chain as a weapon (think ninja assassin) and I want this particular fight to be unfavorable to him in every possible aspect, so I'm wondering what kind of weapon would best combat said chain while still painting an exciting visual picture. My first thought was a spear, as that is flexible and provides reach, but it seems a bit boring. I'm leaning towards some sort of polearm, like a ransuer or a halberd.
Also, if it matters at all, the weilder of the second weapon is a woman. (Appears approximately 28-34 years of age, but with kind of ageless features).
Curious to hear some ideas from some fresh perspectives, but please give some sort of reasoning as to why your weapon would be favored in the match up (reach, style, etc).
For reference sake, the chain is about 15-20 ft in total length. One end is weighted with a spiked ball (not super huge, just big enough to give it sufficient weight, let's say about the size of a softball, maybe a bit smaller), while the other side is a long thin blade (stiletto like, about a foot long) with two backward curving blades at the base (think a fleur de lis).
Thanks in advanced!
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The chain could wrap around the club and a pull back might snap it. A bit implausible but might work.
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Assuming no "ninja darkness" or naruto jutsu, there is no way someone on foot with a chain could beat someone on horseback with a bow.
Challenge mode, armored horse and rider. Horse is a warhorse. Will tear through any kind of chain to trip it. If rider has generally solid armor, only a stabbing can kill her and in limited areas. Getting to those areas would be difficult assuming she is raining down arrows while running away or chasing.
The weapon being described doesn't sound like anything that has appeared in real life, or if it has, being so unweildy/not note worthy to the point of being useless. Whatever fight it will be in will a shonen-type deal with fantastic or inhuman moves. The kusarigama, for instance, was used to entangle, and the blade part was used as a melee weapon if you couldn't. On the other hand, flails were meant to impart impact, and flails with spikes were used primarily against an armored opponent. This weapon has a blade on the end of a ball at the end of a long chain. As an entangling weapon, it may work, but then the spike and the recurve blade have little use, as you hit with the chain if you're trying to entangle, not with the spike/ball. If you're trying to hit with the ball, then the entangling part isn't used. I'm not even sure what the recurve blades are for.
tl;dr -- it's a fantasy weapon, wielded by a character that likely has unnatural strength and skill/skillset.
As such, if you want to counter it, _anything_ will do. You've already stepped beyond realism here. It isn't the weapon that's important, but how you write it.
You have to ask yourself: what is your goal in the scene? If it is to show either characters being badass, give the other guy some equally improbable weapon. Maybe he has a wooden shield, and when the spiked ball hits it, it gets impaled and stuck. Maybe he has no weapon or armor at all, and using his superior mobility to get under/over the chain. Is the opponent a throw away character/redshirt, or a recurring one? If recurring, then you can just make up a fighting style that oddly counters the fighting style of a giant ball with chain wielder. Is the battle in an open field with enough space to swing that chain around? If so, chain wielder has an advantage, no matter what weapon the other guy brings into the fight.
Off hand, barring projectiles, I'd go with something like a foil or a rapier. Part of the reason why flails and heavy melee weapons became obsolete is because of gunpowder -- no amount of mideaval armor is going to stop a musketball. See: three musketeers, who had rapiers. People stopped wearing armor, so a light, handy weapon was a better choice.
Dart in, stab while he's swinging his weapon or something. Skill became more important than sheer damage.
But then, we're back to fantasy, high-action sequence. It would be extremely boring if a fencer just ducked then stabbed someone who was swinging a ball and chain around, so I'm guessing the character is capable of countering something like that, no matter how unlikely. Also, a fencer with what amounts to a giant pin wouldn't be able to pull off weird, action-sequency blocks, making for a boring fight. Like I said, it would be a simple dodge+dodge+stab->fight over.
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The female character is the main antagonist and is meant to completely dominate this particular fight. She will be back for more.
Both characters have learned to harness their mental prowess to the point where they can use it to manipulate the way the weapons work. This makes the chain weilder particularly dangerous as his seemingly difficult to control weapon can make very precise strikes. The backwards facing blades (and to an extent, the spiked ball) are used to disarm and sunder opposing weapons with said precise strikes, as the character tends to shy away from killing in favor of a disarm and intimidate strategy. Its length also serves to protect his allies from a distance while still keeping himself safe.
Throwing knives and such projectiles are abundantly used among nearly every character, leading the main character to be very adept at dodging/blocking/etc. They will be used, but not as the opponents main weapon.
Normally, I absolutely love bows of any sort, but I'm kind of leaning away from that sort of projectile type weapon, as they're too bulky to be effective, given that ranged combat doesn't tend to last long. The exception being longbows (Japanese style, so 1 1/2 times the height of a person) as the chosen sniping weapon, but those are seen as a dishonorable method of killing.
The fight is taking place in a small (let's say about 30 ft across) clearing surrounded by a semi-dense wooded area. There are a total of 4 people fighting in the clearing, so there's enough room for the chain to operate if he's careful to avoid allies.
@batterysrevenge, can I assume that your weapon is essentially a giant spiked club? If so, I quite like the idea of that as an effective counter, given that the strength required to use it would make it an unfamiliar to the main character due to how uncommon it would be. Also, it would be nigh impossible to sunder or disarm such a weapon, giving further advantage to the woman. I'm a bit concerned that it might be nearly useless defensively though, as the chain weilder could manipulate his weapon to snake around it for a direct hit.
I'm generally a big fan or rapiers and the like (almost always a Dex based classes in DnD, grabbing weapon finesse asap), and rapiers can be used very well with the speed that the character has, but I'm concerned that a direct hit from the ball should probably just snap the blade in half. I think that something like a staff with rapier-like blades on each end might work just as well, while allowing for more flashy combat, and better defensive capabilities. Maybe the two halves could even come apart and be used as two separate swords.
Have a lot to think about so far, thanks guys, keep the ideas coming!
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
Problem here is that it would set your character as having amazing focus.concentration a trait that must be maintained throughout or else i becomes rather Mary Sue in nature.
Another weapon of choice, a tri-staff, you have to google the proper name since it skips me at the moment, the fact it can become a pseudo ranged weapon while tangling the chain in its other two segments makes it a rather strong matchup.
Depending on how far you take the 'Mental Power' aspect even a plain fist/gauntlet can be used, but this would show some insane level of mastery, like grandmaster level stuff, not what you want for a character development moment
Make sure to model your weapon the Kusari Gama, which is what the weapon from Ninja Assassin was based on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama
Alternatively, if you want a longer length, model it on the Kyoketsu-Shoge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoketsu-shoge
You can probably find youtube videos of people messing around with each to get an idea of how they move. Just be careful, there are a lot of dumb martial arts videos on youtube, and it's always annoying seeing 'kung fu' users with Japanese Weapons doing pretty looking but ineffective things.
It's important to note that, unlike the chain weapon in Ninja Assassin, these chains were generally around 3ish feet. They're incredibly impractical any longer, and the amount of muscle strength alone to swing something like a 20 foot chain is just silly, much less a chain with a weighted, spiked ball like you describe. The weights on the ends are generally no more than a pound or two heavier than the links in the chain, and only so that it has some more heft when throwing. If you want something that long, it should be made of rope, not chain.
Now, as far as your suggestions, polearms are actually a terrible idea for facing a weighted chain. Part of their purpose to to disarm attackers, the chain could easy wrap around the weapon and pull it out of the opponent's hand. You don't want anything that is long or slow to move. If you want your chain-wielder to have a disadvantage, have him face someone with a ranged weapon or some kind of distraction (like someone throwing knives to keep him off balance).
That huge length of chain is going to be very slow, no matter how strong your character is, so a nimble fighter with a short-range or ranged weapon would be more effective than someone with a long weapon. Remember that the weighted chain-type weapons are designed to entangle enemies, so your best opponents are those that won't easily be entangled by the long length of material.
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