I think that having five colour-aligned factions really creates a mindset of wanting to design around those factions, similar to Tarkir or Ravnica. I am in agreement that the primary focus of the design should NOT be on the factions, as it distracts from the feel of the world. In addition, I don't like having the particular factions being "assigned" to each layer, especially seeing as we've agreed that the layers have a tendency to move around. I think it's far better to just agree on which factions exist, what the races are, etc., and then move onto design with that in mind, as opposed to having that dictate what we are doing. Also, we should decide whether we want a concrete storyline or if we're just using the coolness of the world to carry the flavour (think Tarkir/BfZ vs Original Ravnica/Zendikar).
The layers don't move around exactly, only parts of them do. Kind of like floating islands and that move up and down. It let's us do wierd lands and stuff like that. Even if the layers move the factions move with them. Like we could but it just makes how the factions are different. If we don't assign identities to each layers then what is really the point of having them? A faction split across multiple layers will be very different to one just on one layer.
On terms of story, let's try and see if we make the set work with its flavour. If it seems really boring and nothings really happening we can come up with something.
You want to have every possible combination as an archetype? I'm okay with that, it just sounds a bit hard to pull off without a mechanic for each combination. But sure, we can reflect the factions solely by names, creature types and flavour text, which is pretty ok.
That would leave us open to just design the cards and then dip them in flavour, which looks like Wizards method of designing cards if I'm not mistaken.
You want to have every possible combination as an archetype? I'm okay with that, it just sounds a bit hard to pull off without a mechanic for each combination. But sure, we can reflect the factions solely by names, creature types and flavour text, which is pretty ok.
That would leave us open to just design the cards and then dip them in flavour, which looks like Wizards method of designing cards if I'm not mistaken.
The standard plan is to give each two color a similar focus toward making archetypes. Look at what R&D do with multicolor uncommons.
And flavor is incorporated into design in a lot of different ways, specific details of the lore is not the most important way.
I'm continuing to add stuff to the multiverse page. It's free to edit and comment on, so you guys should contribute. I reckon our next move should be to try an online playtest with either a full test file or enough cards to make playtest decks or something.
Do we want to just put up the stuff which we've already made here on the multiverse? Since we're just testing stuff out right now it doesn't particularly matter if they're not balanced, we can fix those cards as we find them.
Do we want to just put up the stuff which we've already made here on the multiverse? Since we're just testing stuff out right now it doesn't particularly matter if they're not balanced, we can fix those cards as we find them.
I would second that. Also, I looked at the Multiverse site and while I can see the ability to comment and to edit the main page I don't see the ability to add cards.
Do we want to just put up the stuff which we've already made here on the multiverse? Since we're just testing stuff out right now it doesn't particularly matter if they're not balanced, we can fix those cards as we find them.
I would second that. Also, I looked at the Multiverse site and while I can see the ability to comment and to edit the main page I don't see the ability to add cards.
Hmmm. I thought I had the setting to allow that.
Adjusted them so hopefully you should be able to now.
Looks like this provisional/brainstorm card list is starting to slowly but surely grow. I'll have to set aside some time within the next week to come up with some more ideas. So far I've mostly just played around with green Discovery stuff and cards that support Discovery. The general DFC thing leaves plenty of room for ideas as well. And I'd also like to make a point that while it will be important to develop ideas around the mechanics, there will need to be a decent amount of cards not based on them too. Cards that fit the theme but aren't mechanic-based. I might have a few further ideas for such cards.
So I've been thinking about the two color archetypes. Obviously, four of them are going to be our mechanic highlight ones. But the rest there's room to think about what other, minor themes are in set.
A suggestion
- Control
- DFC (minor enchantment theme as a thread, we can have DFC specific enablers as well)
- Leaves the battlefield theme (death, bounce and flicker)
- Large instants/sorceries (different take on 's general spells theme)
- Cycling (threads can be specific cycling support, cards that like discard and cards that like draw)
- Aggro
- Discovery
- Small toughness (different take on 's general go wide theme)
- +1/+1 counters (because it fits the themes of set and is a good way of making use of some of the mechanics)
- Unbound
A few ideas off hand for certain two color combos mentioned:
- I've been playing around with ideas based on shuffling cards into their owner's library with this color combination, and I think it fits the theme of "weirdness". Not sure how well it fits the Yaados faction description though. It could be a minor sub-theme.
- Aggro with a sense of swarming creatures and/or tokens. This fits Xibal's faction description pretty well.
- On top of Discovery, this could have a sub-theme of conquering and/or nomadic living (gaining control of lands, even if temporary).
- The "bottom of library matters" or "bottom of library replaces graveyard" sub-theme could weave in here. I see at least one card in these colors has already gone in that direction. And I think it fits the Oltac decently.
A few ideas off hand for certain two color combos mentioned:
- I've been playing around with ideas based on shuffling cards into their owner's library with this color combination, and I think it fits the theme of "weirdness". Not sure how well it fits the Yaados faction description though. It could be a minor sub-theme.
Shuffling has a high complexity cost in how time consuming it is. I don't see any compelling reasons to do it given this.
- Aggro with a sense of swarming creatures and/or tokens. This fits Xibal's faction description pretty well.
We are in agreement on this then.
R/G mana - On top of Discovery, this could have a sub-theme of conquering and/or nomadic living (gaining control of lands, even if temporary).
We could do that concept on an individual card basis, I think we could one or two land control and other effects with some of that flavor.
W/B mana - The "bottom of library matters" or "bottom of library replaces graveyard" sub-theme could weave in here. I see at least one card in these colors has already gone in that direction. And I think it fits the Oltac decently.
I don't see the bottom of the library theme working out on more than say five cards. We could certainly do a few for the Oltac flavor.
Shuffling has a high complexity cost in how time consuming it is. I don't see any compelling reasons to do it given this.
I can appreciate that. It's just a recent area of interest for me and it feels kind of "weird".
We could do that concept on an individual card basis, I think we could one or two land control and other effects with some of that flavor.
Yea these ideas are all mostly meant for a handful of individual cards. I just posted a few of such ideas in the Multiverse.
I don't see the bottom of the library theme working out on more than say five cards. We could certainly do a few for the Oltac flavor.
That's the idea.
As an aside, while I realize it's been emphasized that we don't want to emphasize the factions too much, it will be fitting to have some cycles based on them I think. Or at least to weave their flavor into some decent chunk of cards. If we ever wrap this set up and consider a 2nd set as part of a block, maybe they would get more emphasis in the 2nd set.
Shuffling has a high complexity cost in how time consuming it is. I don't see any compelling reasons to do it given this.
I can appreciate that. It's just a recent area of interest for me and it feels kind of "weird".
It doesn't seem worth it though. There are other ways of doing much the same thing.
As an aside, while I realize it's been emphasized that we don't want to emphasize the factions too much, it will be fitting to have some cycles based on them I think. Or at least to weave their flavor into some decent chunk of cards.
The second part especially is what I've had in mind for the factions concept. Really just flavor to help build a world for the cards, nothing much more than helping inspire individual cards in terms of design.
If we ever wrap this set up and consider a 2nd set as part of a block, maybe they would get more emphasis in the 2nd set.
That would be a neat way of introducing something new without changing too much. Definitely something to consider.
Just putting this out there as a heads up to anyone else interested, but the design process has currently pretty much entirely shifted to the Multiverse site for the moment at the following link: http://www.magicmultiverse.net/cardsets/1989. So if anyone else is interested in contributing, that's where all the ideas and commentary are currently taking place. For the most part though, it looks like me, DJK, Gusto, and TRicher are the only people contributing to this now. But since this is supposed to be a "community set" at least in theory, I figured I'd put it out there for anyone else. It's still too premature to create another official thread, but we'll also probably have to do that at some point after this initial design phase.
Just some random ideas that works with mechanics and archetypes
Warden of the SwarmBG
Creature - Insect Warrior R
When ~ enters the battlefield, create a 1/1 Insect Warrior creature token. BG: ~ gets +2/+2 until the end of turn.
2/2
Gravity Mage3U
Creature - Human Wizard U 1, Tap a creature you control: Tap target creature.
2/2
Search for Impossible2GG
Sorcery R
Search your library for a land cardm and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
Daybreak Ranger2W
Creature - Human R
First strike
3/3
----------- Midnight Stalker
Creature - Human Horror
~ is black
First strike, lifelink
6/6
Dark Divination2B
Instant C
Scry 1, then draw a card.
Transform target permanent.
Turbidity1UU
Instant R
Counter target spell. Until the end of turn, creatures can't attack.
- Large instants/sorceries (different take on 's general spells theme)
Can we get a clarification on what this means. I suppose large cmc, but there is almost none of this visible in the set so far. We could decide on a criteria e. g. spells with converted mana cost 4 or more. With such a criteria we could make sure to have an appropriate number of spells in that category at common AND some synergistic creatures at common.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I was hoping for the convo to continue in the new thread that's supposed to represent the next phase, not this one
It has indeed been vague to me what the "large instants/sorceries" means. I've just been using a general instant/sorcery theme for those colors really, so you'll find some cards that are based on how many instant/sorceries are in your graveyard, or that let you cast one from your graveyard. If we do go with a CMC 4 or more thing, that would defiitely change things.
I think I'd rather just give it a transform condition that would be harder to achieve than just straight up make it unable to transform without using another card. If we had more of those types of cards then maybe I'd consider it but otherwise it just seems awkward.
The layers don't move around exactly, only parts of them do. Kind of like floating islands and that move up and down. It let's us do wierd lands and stuff like that. Even if the layers move the factions move with them. Like we could but it just makes how the factions are different. If we don't assign identities to each layers then what is really the point of having them? A faction split across multiple layers will be very different to one just on one layer.
On terms of story, let's try and see if we make the set work with its flavour. If it seems really boring and nothings really happening we can come up with something.
Grimm - A plane of dreams, nightmares and fairy tales
That would leave us open to just design the cards and then dip them in flavour, which looks like Wizards method of designing cards if I'm not mistaken.
The standard plan is to give each two color a similar focus toward making archetypes. Look at what R&D do with multicolor uncommons.
And flavor is incorporated into design in a lot of different ways, specific details of the lore is not the most important way.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Grimm - A plane of dreams, nightmares and fairy tales
I would second that. Also, I looked at the Multiverse site and while I can see the ability to comment and to edit the main page I don't see the ability to add cards.
Hmmm. I thought I had the setting to allow that.
Adjusted them so hopefully you should be able to now.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Grimm - A plane of dreams, nightmares and fairy tales
A suggestion
- Control
- DFC (minor enchantment theme as a thread, we can have DFC specific enablers as well)
- Leaves the battlefield theme (death, bounce and flicker)
- Large instants/sorceries (different take on 's general spells theme)
- Cycling (threads can be specific cycling support, cards that like discard and cards that like draw)
- Aggro
- Discovery
- Small toughness (different take on 's general go wide theme)
- +1/+1 counters (because it fits the themes of set and is a good way of making use of some of the mechanics)
- Unbound
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
- I've been playing around with ideas based on shuffling cards into their owner's library with this color combination, and I think it fits the theme of "weirdness". Not sure how well it fits the Yaados faction description though. It could be a minor sub-theme.
- Aggro with a sense of swarming creatures and/or tokens. This fits Xibal's faction description pretty well.
- On top of Discovery, this could have a sub-theme of conquering and/or nomadic living (gaining control of lands, even if temporary).
- The "bottom of library matters" or "bottom of library replaces graveyard" sub-theme could weave in here. I see at least one card in these colors has already gone in that direction. And I think it fits the Oltac decently.
Shuffling has a high complexity cost in how time consuming it is. I don't see any compelling reasons to do it given this.
We are in agreement on this then.
We could do that concept on an individual card basis, I think we could one or two land control and other effects with some of that flavor.
I don't see the bottom of the library theme working out on more than say five cards. We could certainly do a few for the Oltac flavor.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I can appreciate that. It's just a recent area of interest for me and it feels kind of "weird".
Yea these ideas are all mostly meant for a handful of individual cards. I just posted a few of such ideas in the Multiverse.
That's the idea.
As an aside, while I realize it's been emphasized that we don't want to emphasize the factions too much, it will be fitting to have some cycles based on them I think. Or at least to weave their flavor into some decent chunk of cards. If we ever wrap this set up and consider a 2nd set as part of a block, maybe they would get more emphasis in the 2nd set.
It doesn't seem worth it though. There are other ways of doing much the same thing.
The second part especially is what I've had in mind for the factions concept. Really just flavor to help build a world for the cards, nothing much more than helping inspire individual cards in terms of design.
That would be a neat way of introducing something new without changing too much. Definitely something to consider.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Warden of the Swarm BG
Creature - Insect Warrior R
When ~ enters the battlefield, create a 1/1 Insect Warrior creature token.
BG: ~ gets +2/+2 until the end of turn.
2/2
Gravity Mage 3U
Creature - Human Wizard U
1, Tap a creature you control: Tap target creature.
2/2
Search for Impossible 2GG
Sorcery R
Search your library for a land cardm and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
Daybreak Ranger 2W
Creature - Human R
First strike
3/3
-----------
Midnight Stalker
Creature - Human Horror
~ is black
First strike, lifelink
6/6
Dark Divination 2B
Instant C
Scry 1, then draw a card.
Transform target permanent.
Turbidity 1UU
Instant R
Counter target spell. Until the end of turn, creatures can't attack.
Can we get a clarification on what this means. I suppose large cmc, but there is almost none of this visible in the set so far. We could decide on a criteria e. g. spells with converted mana cost 4 or more. With such a criteria we could make sure to have an appropriate number of spells in that category at common AND some synergistic creatures at common.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
It has indeed been vague to me what the "large instants/sorceries" means. I've just been using a general instant/sorcery theme for those colors really, so you'll find some cards that are based on how many instant/sorceries are in your graveyard, or that let you cast one from your graveyard. If we do go with a CMC 4 or more thing, that would defiitely change things.
I can see something like this working in conjunction with the Unbound thing.
I actually made a card in the Multiverse page that does a "transform target permanent" thing. We were unsure exactly how powerful or abusable it is.
In retrospect, I think it might be a bad idea, as it's just sort of trying to cheat your way into transforming cards prematurely.
This is currently non-functional, as it has no transform condition. So I can't make full sense of the card at the moment.
Grimm - A plane of dreams, nightmares and fairy tales