Just as an idea to appeal to those weird legacy players out there, maybe a Counterbalance reprint? I feel if we were NWO on this it would be a rare though. I still say we should put in miracles. They are highly sought after cards and I feel they could be fun in a limited environment (but i get not everyone likes the miracles environment).
I'm very hesitant regarding Shield of the Oversoul at common, as making indestructible that readily available could be a big headache. I considered putting it in at uncommon, but I feel that Kitchen Finks more needs the reprint.
We'll see how many auras and sources of lifegain end up coming into play to determine whether or not Steel of the Godhead stays with the common slot. If there seems to be enough, I like Curse of Chains taking the slot instead.
Mourning Thrull seems better than Beckon Apparition for sure, now that I think about it. (Also reduces the number of on-off tokens.) I'm happy to make that switch. Agreed, though, that Gift of Orzhova would be oppressive at common.
Ehhhh, not too sure I want to be stuffing in Rakdos Cackler at common, despite it synergizing with +1/+1 matters. We'd have to give space to yet another mechanic (unleash) and we're already filling up a lot of the slots without having even touched uncommons yet.
I'm seconding Rai's opinion on all the vampires. I actually ran into the problem of implementing support at common when trying to design the set myself earlier. There's not enough cohesion to warrant drafting the tribe, and enough of the non-lord cards are good enough to be picked highly by other guilds. Which isn't a problem, per se, but it does make drafting the "vampire deck" that much more difficult.
I think the point of zombies is just that - to overrun your opponents.
Also, a list of include-able commons to peruse at your leisure.
I can see Rise of the Hobgoblins coming in for Waves of Aggression. Other than that, here's my proposed list for multicolor cards, going in order of common-uncommon-uncommon-rare. Final thoughts?
EDIT: If we want another big-money rare, Horizon Canopy could go in instead of Gavony Township, or Grove of the Burnwillows for Savageborn Hydra. More fond of adding Canopy, though.
A list of $20+ cards for consideration. None of which have been printed in previous MMs. Nothing particularly insightful to add, just doing a little leg work and providing food for thought.
I'm in favour of zombies, but I'm not sure about Goblins. could potentially be artifact based, maybe that's best since there is currently no artifact archetype suggestion. Since had a sacrifice theme in Scars block, it makes sense that if artifacts were used, that would be the subtheme, and would provide overlap with and while being distinct.
@Rai
What's the problem with replacing goblins/vampire/sacrifice in terms of reshuffling? I think there's enough support, considering that artifacts can support themselves in colourless domain. The sacrifice subtheme also helps give more strength through versatility.
Mourning Thrull is weird for me. It doesn't have lifelink, which is just weird for a Modern set. Especially since I think something like Vault Skirge accomplishes the job much better in the set. Vault Skirge also makes the few Phyrexian mana cards that want reprints look less out of place.
Just for the fact that a 2/2 flier is just good standard Limited fodder, I'd quite like common Bloodied Ghost instead of the Thrull. Also, Vizkopa Guildmage instead of Tidehollow Sculler. Definitely.
Other changes I'd make would be Goblin Electromancer/Nucklavee/something that's not Noggle Ransacker. And Hearthfire Hobgoblin instead of Flame-Kin Zealot.
Also, Gavony Township should stay. It has synergy with Murderous Redcap and Kitchen Finks.
I also agree with the above post on incentive cards. Not all the cards, but each colour should have incentive cards. I quite like lopsided archetypes myself. With Goblins for example, you can have all the support in Black, and all of the generically good Goblin cards in red. Gives an interesting draft dynamic.
Unsure about the 'Hob, but I like all the other suggested changes. I feel like Mortify could be the one to cut, though, but that's just me.
And yeah, "unbalancing" the mechanics in a guild could make it work well. I've been working on a personal list on the side, and in Golgari dredge is concentrated more in black and scavenge in green.
@Rai
What's the problem with replacing goblins/vampire/sacrifice in terms of reshuffling? I think there's enough support, considering that artifacts can support themselves in colourless domain. The sacrifice subtheme also helps give more strength through versatility.
I think that having the hybrid colorless cycle and the signet cycle at uncommon means we have that many fewer slots to put in for generic artifacts to support that theme. It's a cool idea, one that I wish we'd thought of earlier, but I fear it'd take too much work to restructure the set skeleton at this point.
EDIT: Since I don't think we're in agreement yet as to what our BR archetype will be, I'm taking down the cards specific to the archetype from the main post. Let's discuss it a bit longer.
From this list, I'm most in favour of sacrifice with vampires or goblins as secondary theme. Sacrifice is a very workable theme and allows some differentiation from previous MMs, while the secondary tribals add depth and help distinguish from other archetypes within the set (mainly ). What do the rest of you think?
Looking at things purely from the perspective of how this set differs from MM and MM2, should be creature death focused, with both scavenge from RTR and morbid from INN. While should be +1/+1 counter aggro with vampires from INN and Unleash from RTR. would then become ramp/aggro creatures with Gruul + Werewolves. This obviously doesn't need to be the plan, but it seems like we should be asking why we aren't doing that version.
About the lack of multicolor enablers at common: Do you think we can include the guildgates? (If so, we might want to put in things like Greenside Watcher or Gatecreeper Vine)
In addition, would it be possible to make WB the aggro archetype? White weenies and black vampires, combat tricks in white and removal in black, some black bloodthirst cards, maybe exalted?
Here's my humble suggestion for the green common list under the current archetype structure. Sacred Wolf takes care of the issue of having too many four-drops, while Skarrgan Pit-Skulk fills in for Gladecover Scout as the one-drop. I’d include Jungle Weaver if we were sure on going with generic cycling, but right now I only think we need the basic landcycling (maybe the full cycle, but at minimum Sylvan Bounty and Traumatic Visions to support GU.) That spot’s thus blank for now. Thoughts?
Looking at things purely from the perspective of how this set differs from MM and MM2, should be creature death focused, with both scavenge from RTR and morbid from INN. While should be +1/+1 counter aggro with vampires from INN and Unleash from RTR. would then become ramp/aggro creatures with Gruul + Werewolves. This obviously doesn't need to be the plan, but it seems like we should be asking why we aren't doing that version.
Hmmm, there’s an interesting proposal. Anyone else have thoughts on this? My only concern is I don’t know how werewolves would work out under the current plan, and was done to a degree in MM2 (with the token archetype veering heavily on sacrifice iirc).
EDIT: Also, bloodthirst was 's archetype for MM2, so that's even more overlap there. ):
About the lack of multicolor enablers at common: Do you think we can include the guildgates? (If so, we might want to put in things like Greenside Watcher or Gatecreeper Vine)
In addition, would it be possible to make WB the aggro archetype? White weenies and black vampires, combat tricks in white and removal in black, some black bloodthirst cards, maybe exalted?
Potentially. Right now I think the concern is whether there's enough support at common to make WB lifegain a reliable wincon: so far we only have Ajani's Pridemate, and that's been downshifted from uncommon. :/
I think we need to put Serum Visions here. True, this dosen't include theros, but we might want to use the Fifth dawn, TSP block or M11 scry cards as our "draw-fixing" mechanics. Examples would be:
Back to read stuff over. I got to writing up the formal breakdown of the set's colors and rarities.
Monocolor
17 commons in each color.
8 uncommons in each color.
6 rares in each color.
2 mythic rares in each color.
Multicolor
1 hybrid common in each pair.
2 uncommons in each pair, either gold or hybrid.
1 uncommon Ravnica signet in each pair.
1 rare in each pair, either gold or hybrid.
5 assorted mythic rares, shared with colorless.
Colorless
6 commons.
10 uncommons (not including the signets).
8 rares.
5 assorted mythic rares, shared with multicolor.
This leaves us with 244 cards, but I’m honestly fine with not having the last 5 rares and instead having a higher chance of pulling good ones than getting junk. (Looking at you, Surrakar Spellblade.) Does this sound good to everyone? If so, I can put together a set skeleton.
Secondly, some suggestions for alternate archetypes! Considering that people aren't entirely happy with all of them yet. P:
Tribal Sacrifice - I like the idea someone posted a few back about combining sacrifice with either tribal goblin or vampire subthemes. Throw in a bit of undying, and bam.
Combat Tricks - Mainly a way to showcase bloodrush. Pyrewild Shaman and Slaughterhorn to lead the way. Plain and simple.
Exalted - Since exalted was the returning mechanic for M13, it could be a nice homage to have it come back. There are enough support cards, methinks, if we use both Alara and M13's, like Noble Hierarch (a chase rare!), Court Archers, Knight of Glory, Qasali Pridemage, Sigiled Paladin.... It'd also overlap somewhat with the following suggestion. (We could use exalted as if need be.)
Auras - Seeing as lifegain/extort may not have enough support, here's another possibility for Orzhov if we change Selesnya to exalted. Angelic Destiny, Evershrike and Gift of Orzhova could be driving cards for this idea, although I admit it's not nearly as elegant as the current incarnation.
Just popping in for a moment (wish I could make a lengthier post but I have to get to work). Wanted to remind you guys that one of the best ways to add niche archtypes is to include uncommons that twist around the support cards from the "main" archtypes to make it a totally different deck, especially if they can make the lower value commons more attractive.
Just a little more leg work. These are all of the Modern cards that have life payments (with the exception of shock lands and fetch lands). Also, if WB is going to be lifegain, then imo Extort should be present to some degree.
These 10 all seem to be on multiple people's lists, so I'd say it's safe to add them in to the main post. We've got room for two more spells and five more creatures. (Still pushing for Tracker's Instincts.)
I think we should first figure out what the heck we're doing for , though. Do we want to stick with +1/+1 counters or try something with combat tricks? Likewise, for , are we sticking with lifegain or trying exalted? If we're doing sacrifice tribal for , is it gonna be vampires or goblins? I'd like to fiddle with exalted for , personally, and maybe at least brainstorm how undying vampires could link into .
My problem with exalted is that black doesn't have any exalted cards (until M13). As far as goes, I think combat tricks would only work if there's room for Ghor-Clan Rampager. I do like the idea though since it further enables the "creatures in the graveyard" theme. I'm surprised people aren't interested in trying to make a reanimator archtype since it seems like everyone agrees graveyard archtypes are in.
My problem with exalted is that black doesn't have any exalted cards (until M13). As far as goes, I think combat tricks would only work if there's room for Ghor-Clan Rampager. I do like the idea though since it further enables the "creatures in the graveyard" theme. I'm surprised people aren't interested in trying to make a reanimator archtype since it seems like everyone agrees graveyard archtypes are in.
Reanimator’s great in cube where the balance of cards doesn’t change, but it stinks in drafting if you can’t assemble the right balance of fatties and key spells. Trust me, I know. ):
Gruul: @Rai – Yeah, I guess we’ve assumed so much on being +1/+1 matters at this point that it’d be difficult to change. I do agree with Piar that bloodthirst’d play into other archetypes’ strategies, so we shouldn’t just discount it outright.
Orzhov: I tried fiddling with a list of auras vs. exalted matters for both guilds, but I quickly discovered that all the common “auras matter” cards in the relevant sets are G (the only B one is Necromancer's Magemark and that doesn’t really count) while there are an equal number of exalted cards in both G and B. We could slap a few auras in (ex. Gift of Orzhova) for cross-archetype synergy, but I think the key differences will be that will focus more on “board clog” to get exalted triggers while will focus more on going all in on one creature and bashing the enemy. It’s a nice contrast. Plus, we’d now have the excuse to reprint Noble Hierarch as our last rare, even if she’s not herself.
Rakdos: @Rai – For some reason I thought there were more undying vampires. Whoops. We still need to figure out which tribe we play off the sacrifice angle, though, and I haven’t heard anyone’s thoughts on that yet, soo… feedback? (:
So, my suggestion: keep Gruul at +1/+1 counters for now, change Orzhov to exalted, work on figuring out Rakdos some more. Yes? No?
EDIT: Re: Bramble Elemental – I’m fine with the switch if others are. It does seem that green’s stacked with support right now, so we ought to make room for other archetypes. My only concern’s finding another card or two to produce saproling tokens so that this isn’t the only one. (:
I feel like the BW mechanic should be tokens. With Lingering Souls, Doomed Traveler, and maybe Spectral Procession.
Speaking of
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I'm very hesitant regarding Shield of the Oversoul at common, as making indestructible that readily available could be a big headache. I considered putting it in at uncommon, but I feel that Kitchen Finks more needs the reprint.
We'll see how many auras and sources of lifegain end up coming into play to determine whether or not Steel of the Godhead stays with the common slot. If there seems to be enough, I like Curse of Chains taking the slot instead.
Mourning Thrull seems better than Beckon Apparition for sure, now that I think about it. (Also reduces the number of on-off tokens.) I'm happy to make that switch. Agreed, though, that Gift of Orzhova would be oppressive at common.
Ehhhh, not too sure I want to be stuffing in Rakdos Cackler at common, despite it synergizing with +1/+1 matters. We'd have to give space to yet another mechanic (unleash) and we're already filling up a lot of the slots without having even touched uncommons yet.
I'm seconding Rai's opinion on all the vampires. I actually ran into the problem of implementing support at common when trying to design the set myself earlier. There's not enough cohesion to warrant drafting the tribe, and enough of the non-lord cards are good enough to be picked highly by other guilds. Which isn't a problem, per se, but it does make drafting the "vampire deck" that much more difficult.
I think the point of zombies is just that - to overrun your opponents.
Also, a list of include-able commons to peruse at your leisure.
White: Divine Favor, Momentary Blink, Syndic of Tithes
Blue: Deprive, Gitaxian Probe
Black: Darkblast (from uncommon), Frogtosser Banneret, Mark of the Vampire, Morsel Theft
Red: Flame Jab, Kiln Fiend, Thatcher Revolt
Green: Aura Gnarlid, Gladecover Scout, Gnaw to the Bone, Golgari Brownscale, Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildNow, to something different. Consult the following list:
Azorius: Steel of the Godhead, Lyev Skyknight, Mistmeadow Witch, Meddling Mage
Dimir: Deathcult Rogue, Diregraf Captain, Shadow of Doubt (from rare), Lich Lord of Unx
Rakdos: Rakdos Shred-Freak, Murderous Redcap, Terminate (from common), Fulminator Mage
Gruul: Pit Fight, Burning-Tree Emissary, Scab-Clan Mauler (from common), Savageborn Hydra (from mythic)
Selesnya: Elvish Hexhunter, Kitchen Finks, Unflinching Courage, Gavony Township
Orzhov: Mourning Thrull, Mortify, Tidehollow Sculler, Divinity of Pride
Golgari: Slitherhead (from uncommon), Shambling Shell (from common), Worm Harvest, Abrupt Decay
Simic: Snakeform, Coiling Oracle (from common), Urban Evolution, Simic Sky Swallower
Izzet: Blistercoil Weird (from uncommon), Gelectrode, Noggle Ransacker, Epic Experiment (from mythic)
Boros: Boros Recruit, Flame-Kin Zealot, Lightning Helix, Waves of Aggression
I can see Rise of the Hobgoblins coming in for Waves of Aggression. Other than that, here's my proposed list for multicolor cards, going in order of common-uncommon-uncommon-rare. Final thoughts?
EDIT: If we want another big-money rare, Horizon Canopy could go in instead of Gavony Township, or Grove of the Burnwillows for Savageborn Hydra. More fond of adding Canopy, though.
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildFetid Heath and friends
Bitter Blossom
Sliver Legion
Thoughtseize
Auriok Champion
Cavern of Souls
Crucible of Worlds
Glimpse the Unthinkable
Goblin Guide
Horizon Canopy
Inkmoth Nexus
Mycosynth Lattice
Rings of Brighthearth
Sower of Temptation
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Blightsteel Colossus
Damnation
Geist of Saint Traft
Grove of the Burnwillows
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
Liliana of the Veil
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Phyrexian Obliterator
Snapcaster Mage
[b]White-Blue[/b]: Gryff Vanguard and Griffin Protector
[b]Blue-Black[/b]: Makeshift Mauler and Ghoulraiser
[b]Black-Red[/b]: Plagued Rusalka and Grab the Reins
[b]Red-Green[/b]: Splatter thug and Ghor-Clan Savage
[b]Green-White[/b]: Fists of Ironwood and Griffin Guide
[b]White-Black[/b] : Suture Priest and Tribute to Hunger
[b]Blue-Red[/b]: Forbidden Alchhemy (this archerytpe would need to splash a lot) and Empty the Warrens
[b]Black-Green[b]: Grisly Salvage and Stinkweed Imp
[b]Red-White[/b]: Kessig Malcontents and Avacynian Priest
[b]Green-Blue[/b]: Grazing Gladehart and Tideforce Elemental
Also, awsome project. I would like to contriburte in any way.
Some cards for this potential archetype: Atog, Beacon of Unrest (works well for other archetypes as well), Disciple of the Vault, Galvanic Blast, Shrapnel Blast, Kuldotha Phoenix, Kuldotha Rebirth, Moriok Rigger, Salvage Titan, Slag Fiend, Executioner's Capsule, Moltensteel Dragon.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
What's the problem with replacing goblins/vampire/sacrifice in terms of reshuffling? I think there's enough support, considering that artifacts can support themselves in colourless domain. The sacrifice subtheme also helps give more strength through versatility.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Hey, nice to see you. Feel free to just start posting - we could always use more contributors. (:
As for the cards you've suggested, I like Makeshift Mauler, Ghoulraiser, Ghor-Clan Savage, Fists of Ironwood, Tribute to Hunger, Forbidden Alchemy, Stinkweed Imp, Kessig Malcontents and Avacynian Priest. I also know that Suture Priest and Grazing Gladehart were previously suggested, so those are definitely going in.
Unsure about the 'Hob, but I like all the other suggested changes. I feel like Mortify could be the one to cut, though, but that's just me.
Mourning Thrull -> Bloodied Ghost
Tidehollow Sculler -> Vizkopa Guildmage
+ Vault Skirge
Noggle Ransacker -> Nucklavee
And yeah, "unbalancing" the mechanics in a guild could make it work well. I've been working on a personal list on the side, and in Golgari dredge is concentrated more in black and scavenge in green.
Also, thoughts on Beacon of Unrest and Glen Elendra Archmage being two of the remaining rares?
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildI think that having the hybrid colorless cycle and the signet cycle at uncommon means we have that many fewer slots to put in for generic artifacts to support that theme. It's a cool idea, one that I wish we'd thought of earlier, but I fear it'd take too much work to restructure the set skeleton at this point.
Reposting because it didn't get any attention before, but Beacon of Unrest and Glen Elendra Archmage being two of the remaining rares?
EDIT: Since I don't think we're in agreement yet as to what our BR archetype will be, I'm taking down the cards specific to the archetype from the main post. Let's discuss it a bit longer.
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildSome more possibles
Cards that are currently seeing modern play: Slaughter Pact, Terminate, Steel Overseer, Thragtusk, Lotleth Troll.
Card that fit archetypes/themes in set: Ætherplasm, Deputy of Acquittals, Familiar's Ruse, Whiplash Trap, Stitched Drake, Skaab Ruinator (could this be rare?), Fatestitcher, Black Cat (multipurpose!), Diregraf Ghoul, Fleshbag Marauder, Graveborn Muse, Gravecrawler, Lifebane Zombie, Faith's Fetters, Lone Missionary (another multipurpose), Sea Gate Oracle, Sower of Temptation (pricey but it does warrant a reprint), Wall of Omens, Quirion Dryad, Slith Firewalker
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
As far as I see it, here are the options:
From this list, I'm most in favour of sacrifice with vampires or goblins as secondary theme. Sacrifice is a very workable theme and allows some differentiation from previous MMs, while the secondary tribals add depth and help distinguish from other archetypes within the set (mainly
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
In addition, would it be possible to make WB the aggro archetype? White weenies and black vampires, combat tricks in white and removal in black, some black bloodthirst cards, maybe exalted?
CG02: Aura Gnarlid
CG03: Drudge Beetle
CG04: Ghor-Clan Savage
CG05: Grazing Gladehart
CG06: Sacred Wolf
CG07: Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
CG08: Sporeback Troll
CG09: Thrashing Mossdog
CG10: some big doofy beater, 5+ mana - Cytospawn Shambler?
CG11: Cultivate
CG12: Gnaw to the Bone
CG13: Khalni Heart Expedition
CG14: Moldervine Cloak
CG15: Nature's Claim
CG16: Snake Umbra
CG17: Sylvan Bounty
Here's my humble suggestion for the green common list under the current archetype structure. Sacred Wolf takes care of the issue of having too many four-drops, while Skarrgan Pit-Skulk fills in for Gladecover Scout as the one-drop. I’d include Jungle Weaver if we were sure on going with generic cycling, but right now I only think we need the basic landcycling (maybe the full cycle, but at minimum Sylvan Bounty and Traumatic Visions to support GU.) That spot’s thus blank for now. Thoughts?
Hmmm, there’s an interesting proposal. Anyone else have thoughts on this? My only concern is I don’t know how werewolves would work out under the current plan, and
EDIT: Also, bloodthirst was
Potentially. Right now I think the concern is whether there's enough support at common to make WB lifegain a reliable wincon: so far we only have Ajani's Pridemate, and that's been downshifted from uncommon. :/
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildI think we need to put Serum Visions here. True, this dosen't include theros, but we might want to use the Fifth dawn, TSP block or M11 scry cards as our "draw-fixing" mechanics. Examples would be:
Magma Jet
Augury Owl
Condescend
Maybe Cryptic Annelid?
Ferocious Charge
Foresee
Llanowar Empath
Riddle of Lightning
Tel-Jilad Justice
Viscera Seer
Judge Unworthy?
Monocolor
- 17 commons in each color.
- 8 uncommons in each color.
- 6 rares in each color.
- 2 mythic rares in each color.
Multicolor- 1 hybrid common in each pair.
- 2 uncommons in each pair, either gold or hybrid.
- 1 uncommon Ravnica signet in each pair.
- 1 rare in each pair, either gold or hybrid.
- 5 assorted mythic rares, shared with colorless.
Colorless- 6 commons.
- 10 uncommons (not including the signets).
- 8 rares.
- 5 assorted mythic rares, shared with multicolor.
This leaves us with 244 cards, but I’m honestly fine with not having the last 5 rares and instead having a higher chance of pulling good ones than getting junk. (Looking at you, Surrakar Spellblade.) Does this sound good to everyone? If so, I can put together a set skeleton.Secondly, some suggestions for alternate archetypes! Considering that people aren't entirely happy with all of them yet. P:
Tribal Sacrifice - I like the idea someone posted a few back about combining sacrifice with either tribal goblin or vampire subthemes. Throw in a bit of undying, and bam.
Combat Tricks - Mainly a way to showcase bloodrush. Pyrewild Shaman and Slaughterhorn to lead the way. Plain and simple.
Exalted - Since exalted was the returning mechanic for M13, it could be a nice homage to have it come back. There are enough support cards, methinks, if we use both Alara and M13's, like Noble Hierarch (a chase rare!), Court Archers, Knight of Glory, Qasali Pridemage, Sigiled Paladin.... It'd also overlap somewhat with the following suggestion. (We could use exalted as 
if need be.)
Auras - Seeing as lifegain/extort may not have enough support, here's another possibility for Orzhov if we change Selesnya to exalted. Angelic Destiny, Evershrike and Gift of Orzhova could be driving cards for this idea, although I admit it's not nearly as elegant as the current incarnation.
Exalted - See the last two points. Throw Duty-Bound Dead and Knight of Infamy in. Profit?
Also, some random considerations for downshifted cards:- Tracker's Instincts instead of Mulch at common?
- Tendo Ice Bridge at uncommon? Not sure if it's at a suitable power level for that, but it shouldn't be much of a problem in limited.
So, yeah. Thoughts on all of these would be appreciated. (:- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildWU - blink
UB - Zombies
BR - Sacrifice, maybe some triblal sprinkled in
RG - Power matters - Naya cards, Bloodrush, Counters
GW - Auras
WB - Exalted Aggro, maybe abuse life gain/lost
UR - Flashback Spellslinger
BG - Self-Mill (Spider Spawning. dec)
RW - Battalion/Battle cry "Wide" aggro
GU - Ramp
I've made today another suggestion for green commons: I would really like to hear your thoughts:
Llanowar Elves (Might be Elvish Mystic if we include M14 as MM2 included M12): GU ramp
Prey Upon: Any green deck, really, as we don't really have a green token strategy
Timberland Guide : RG
Drudge Beetle: BG and RG
Aura Gnarlid: GW
Explore: GU
Fists of Ironwood: GW
Sacred Wolf: GW
Grazing Gladehart: GU
Moldervine Cloak: GW and BG
Thrashing Mossdog: BG and RG
Greater Mossdog: BG
Crowned Ceratok: RG
Bramble Elemental: GW
Jungle Weaver: BG and GU
Mulch: BG and GU
Earthbrawn: BG and RG
Pay 1 Life
Pay 2 Life
Pay 3 Life
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Nightmare Lash
Tavern Swindler
Pay 4 Life
Marrow Bats
Pay 5 Life
Numai Outcast
Pay 6 Life
Demon of Death's Gate
Pay 7 Life
Griselbrand
Pay 8 Life
Phyrexian Colossus
Pay Any Amount of Life
- Aura Gnarlid
- Drudge Beetle
- Grazing Gladehart
- Jungle Weaver
- Thrashing Mossdog
- Cultivate
- Gnaw to the Bone
- Khalni Heart Expedition
- Moldervine Cloak
- Snake Umbra
These 10 all seem to be on multiple people's lists, so I'd say it's safe to add them in to the main post. We've got room for two more spells and five more creatures. (Still pushing for Tracker's Instincts.)I think we should first figure out what the heck we're doing for
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe BuildAbout Exalted: IMO, even though blacj exalted only premiered in M13, the set has many good black exalted cards (Examples being Duskmantle Prowler, Knight of Infamy, Servant of Nefarox, and of course Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis). I think that together with AVR "loner" cards this could work as an archetype.
Also: I know this is too early, but do any of you have an idea for the set's symbol?
Reanimator’s great in cube where the balance of cards doesn’t change, but it stinks in drafting if you can’t assemble the right balance of fatties and key spells. Trust me, I know. ):
Gruul: @Rai – Yeah, I guess we’ve assumed so much on
Orzhov: I tried fiddling with a list of auras vs. exalted matters for both guilds, but I quickly discovered that all the common “auras matter” cards in the relevant sets are G (the only B one is Necromancer's Magemark and that doesn’t really count) while there are an equal number of exalted cards in both G and B. We could slap a few auras in (ex. Gift of Orzhova) for cross-archetype synergy, but I think the key differences will be that
Rakdos: @Rai – For some reason I thought there were more undying vampires. Whoops. We still need to figure out which tribe we play off the sacrifice angle, though, and I haven’t heard anyone’s thoughts on that yet, soo… feedback? (:
So, my suggestion: keep Gruul at +1/+1 counters for now, change Orzhov to exalted, work on figuring out Rakdos some more. Yes? No?
EDIT: Re: Bramble Elemental – I’m fine with the switch if others are. It does seem that green’s stacked with
- (W/U)(W/U) Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage: The New da Vinci (historic control)
- (W/B)(W/B) Teysa Karlov: Death Be Not Kind (aristocrats)
- (R/G)(R/G) Hallar, the Firefletcher: Yavimaya Burning (kicker and counters)
- (B/G)(G/U) Sidisi, Brood Tyrant: Queen of the Damned (dredge)
Maybe Build