Battlefields of Dareth
A custom MtG block for constructed and limited play
Avienne returns from the Caeia block in search of Dareth's hidden artifact, the infinity engine.
Set Name:Battlefields of Dareth
Block: Set 2 of 3 in the Dareth Block
Number of Cards: 150
Estimated Release: June, 2015 (Beta)
Three Letter Code: BFD
Theme: Tactical Creature Combat
New Mechanics: Retaliate
Returning Mechanics: Prowess and, returning from Generals of Dareth, Vanguard, Reverberate, and Dominance
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Last Update: March, 2015
Project Status: Exploratory Design (The set skeleton is largely empty. Early thoughts regarding mechanics and archetypes are being formed. Very little, if anything will remain in its current form by the end of design.)
Block Information
While the first set of the block, Generals of Dareth, is still undergoing development, it's time to begin work in earnest on the second set. This set will feature the return of Vanguard and Reverberate from Generals of Dareth, and will feature two new mechanics (ok - one new, and one returning from Tarkir block, which was way too perfect for my needs to avoid, regardless of how new a mechanic it was). The focus on 'tactical creature combat' remains, and I think both of these mechanics add to that.
Storywise, this set will capture the culmination of the Great War of Dareth, which has for years been fought over an artifact - the Infinity Engine. The Infinity Engine is a artifact of unknown origin which resides on Dareth that allows its controller to undo one moment in time. This has led Planeswalker Avienne Rumare, whose home plane of Caeia has been destroyed by the Eldrazi, to Dareth in hopes of finding the Infinity Engine and undoing that event. However, other outside powers have also taken notice and seek the same thing.
New Mechanics
Battlefields of Dareth introduces one new mechanic - retaliate. It also features the return of three mechanics from the first set: Vanguard, Reverberate, and Dominance
Retaliate(If this creature would deal enough damage to creatures it blocks to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to defending player or a planeswalker he or she controls.)
Retaliate is a mechanic that I've wanted to use for a very, very long time. Inspiration for the mechanic came from the Star Wars Trading Card Game, though as it evolved it became simply a 'reverse trample'. This should be a very interesting mechanic in this environment, presenting an interesting strategical counterpoint to Vanguard. Speaking of...
Vanguard(Attacking creatures with vanguard must be blocked, if able, before attacking creatures without vanguard can be blocked.)
Originally inspired by user Lord of Atlantis, Vanguard is the flagship mechanic of GEN. It returns again in BFD, albeit in smaller numbers.
509.1x If at least one attacking creature has vanguard as the declare blockers step begins, the only creatures that assign as blockers in that step are those assigned to block attacking creatures with vanguard. After that step, instead of proceeding to the combat damage step, the phase gets a second declare blockers step. The only creatures that assign as blockers in that step are the remaining creatures not assigned to block attacking creatures with vanguard as the first declare blockers step began, and creatures can only block during that step if all attacking creatures with vanguard that could be blocked were blocked during the first declare blockers step. After the second declare blockers step, the phase proceeds to the combat damage step.
Reverberate COST(Whenever you cast a spell with the same converted mana cost as this card, you may cast this card from your graveyard for its reverberate cost. Then exile it.)
Reverberate is an ability that showed up in Generals of Dareth, with the Reverberate cost always being a mana cost. In Battlefields of Dareth, Reverberate costs will be more varied than simply mana costs.
Dominance(Whenever a creature attacks and isn't blocked, [EFFECT])
Dominance returns from GEN, albeit in smaller numbers.
Feedback and Design Help Wanted
I am looking for any and all feedback that can be offered by the MtGS community. Good, bad, indifferent - I want to hear it all. Additionally, given that we are very early in design, I'm interested in hearing any design suggestions from anyone interested in being credited as a contributing designer.
How is this set supposed to be distinct in comparison to the first set? Is it supposed to be just more "tactical combat stuff", perhaps with a bit more of war escalation? That seems like typical middle set (and something the new two-set block scheme is supposed to avoid). Sets that did this weren't particularly successful historically and generally ended up being unmemorable (Mirrodin Besieged, Dark Ascension, Born of the Gods are all examples of this).
This is a great time to have this discussion, actually, given that this is exploratory design and therefore nothing is set in stone at this point...
I'll be honest with you: I don't have a big plan to make it 'distinct'. It is, in many ways, more of the same (although I foresee it being much more cohesive from a limited standpoint given the lessons I've learned up to this point). There are new strategies that will be viable, new mechanics to explore, and lots of new stuff from a story perspective, but no big twist of departure from the first set. I don't know if that's ok or not, but that's why we have the discussion.
The good news is set 3 of the block will differ wildly, so this won't be a problem once we get to that point.
Would love to hear anyone's feedback on what they'd like to see this set do in order to be successful as a second set.
And is there even a reason for the second set to exist? If you have ideas how to improve the fist set, why not just improve that? Why not go with the 2-set paradigm with the block and make each of the sets remarkable? If you have better mechanics, you could just replace perhaps the weakest ones in the first set (not pointing at anything, I didn't study it in detail). It's not like you are MaRo and have to submit the set by the end of March.
That's fair. But at the end of the day I think, yeah there's enough here for 2 sets. Really, the way this is going to end up is that this basically is a 2-set block, since the 3rd set is completely different.
But let's ask this question - what does a second set need to have to avoid being un-memorable?
That's fair. But at the end of the day I think, yeah there's enough here for 2 sets. Really, the way this is going to end up is that this basically is a 2-set block, since the 3rd set is completely different.
But let's ask this question - what does a second set need to have to avoid being un-memorable?
I think at least one key is to remember Battlefields will be drafted first, and so it will affect significantly the value of certain Generals cards. You no longer draft any Generals card in a vacuum.
That's fair. But at the end of the day I think, yeah there's enough here for 2 sets. Really, the way this is going to end up is that this basically is a 2-set block, since the 3rd set is completely different.
But let's ask this question - what does a second set need to have to avoid being un-memorable?
I think at least one key is to remember Battlefields will be drafted first, and so it will affect significantly the value of certain Generals cards. You no longer draft any Generals card in a vacuum.
This is true, in fact I'm already considering difference I'd like to see in this format (for instance, I'm thinking BFD will include removal spells, something that GEN did not). But is this enough to answer CommanderZ's concerns regarding the '2nd set problem'?
I also feel like Battlefields of Dareth is too close to Generals of Dareth at this current iteration.
My theory on why you are struggling with this block (I could be wrong of course): Over some time, you gathered a number of themes and mechanics you want to design for, themes and mechanics that are all great in a vacuum, but don't necessarily fit into the set you're trying to design. I know these "I want this to be in the set so badly" moments, but you have to realize that there is maybe a better place for it in a later set.
None of the mechanics scream "Tactical creature combat" to me. I want to see a mechanic called "Gambit" (whatever it does). Where is it, I ask you?
Let's look at your mechanics for both sets: Vanguard: Some development issues aside, this is a perfect fit for the set. Reverberate: It's a fine mechanic, but doesn't fit into the "tactical creature combat" theme. As a one-of mechanic, this is ok, like Rebound in Rise of the Eldrazi. Dominance: You know I've never been a fan of this mechanic. I criticized that you never had any reason to not just use the more conventional "whenever deals combat damage to a player" wording. While the name fits into the world you're trying to build, I don't get what the mechanic has to do with displaying dominance. Unity: Why a tribal mechanic in a set that shouldn't be about tribal? This doesn't fit into the set at all and the mechanic itself is problematic to say the least. Retaliate: A fine mechanic again, but does it get across the "tactical creature combat" flavor? The cold war comes to mind, where an attack of one party was detered by the threat of retaliation.
As always, I hope my straightforwardness doesn't make me sound too harsh. I really think you can do a lot better.
I also feel like Battlefields of Dareth is too close to Generals of Dareth at this current iteration.
My theory on why you are struggling with this block (I could be wrong of course): Over some time, you gathered a number of themes and mechanics you want to design for, themes and mechanics that are all great in a vacuum, but don't necessarily fit into the set you're trying to design. I know these "I want this to be in the set so badly" moments, but you have to realize that there is maybe a better place for it in a later set.
None of the mechanics scream "Tactical creature combat" to me. I want to see a mechanic called "Gambit" (whatever it does). Where is it, I ask you?
Let's look at your mechanics for both sets: Vanguard: Some development issues aside, this is a perfect fit for the set. Reverberate: It's a fine mechanic, but doesn't fit into the "tactical creature combat" theme. As a one-of mechanic, this is ok, like Rebound in Rise of the Eldrazi. Dominance: You know I've never been a fan of this mechanic. I criticized that you never had any reason to not just use the more conventional "whenever deals combat damage to a player" wording. While the name fits into the world you're trying to build, I don't get what the mechanic has to do with displaying dominance. Unity: Why a tribal mechanic in a set that shouldn't be about tribal? This doesn't fit into the set at all and the mechanic itself is problematic to say the least. Retaliate: A fine mechanic again, but does it get across the "tactical creature combat" flavor? The cold war comes to mind, where an attack of one party was detered by the threat of retaliation.
As always, I hope my straightforwardness doesn't make me sound too harsh. I really think you can do a lot better.
No need for the disclaimer, the straightforwardness is welcome.
I think Dominance could stand to have a better name, but I think the mechanic works great in the set, especially when paired with vanguard. The difference between 'attacks and isn't blocked' and 'deals combat damage to a player' is small, but important I think.
Reverberate is there because as much as I want creature combat to be a theme, I'm not not making a set that is 100% creatures. Reverberating tricks or other spells is very tactical, and I think it fits well. That said, it still needs development in GEN. For BFD, I think Reverberate will be easier to do things with because reverberate costs will be non-mana costs, which will make them a bit easier to pull off.
Unity is one I agree with you on, I think. I'm still working with it in GEN but there's every possibility it won't survive. It certainly won't be in BFD.
I'm kinda surprised you don't like Retaliate. I like that it adds another dimension to combat. Yes, it's defensive as opposed to offensive, but it absolutely accomplishes my goal of making combat more interesting and it provides some nice tension when lined up against Vanguard. We'll see how it plays, but I like it.
Outside of Unity (which, btw, if I replace will be replaced with something like Bushido), I don't think my problem is trying to fit ideas into a set that doesn't fit them. I think I had a lot of problems in the initial design of GEN due to the way I approached it. I think I've learned from those mistakes (and am ready to make completely new ones), and I think once BFD is on its way it'll look a lot better.
A custom MtG block for constructed and limited play
Avienne returns from the Caeia block in search of Dareth's hidden artifact, the infinity engine.
Block: Set 2 of 3 in the Dareth Block
Number of Cards: 150
Estimated Release: June, 2015 (Beta)
Three Letter Code: BFD
Theme: Tactical Creature Combat
New Mechanics: Retaliate
Returning Mechanics: Prowess and, returning from Generals of Dareth, Vanguard, Reverberate, and Dominance
-----
Last Update: March, 2015
Project Status: Exploratory Design (The set skeleton is largely empty. Early thoughts regarding mechanics and archetypes are being formed. Very little, if anything will remain in its current form by the end of design.)
Block Information
While the first set of the block, Generals of Dareth, is still undergoing development, it's time to begin work in earnest on the second set. This set will feature the return of Vanguard and Reverberate from Generals of Dareth, and will feature two new mechanics (ok - one new, and one returning from Tarkir block, which was way too perfect for my needs to avoid, regardless of how new a mechanic it was). The focus on 'tactical creature combat' remains, and I think both of these mechanics add to that.
Storywise, this set will capture the culmination of the Great War of Dareth, which has for years been fought over an artifact - the Infinity Engine. The Infinity Engine is a artifact of unknown origin which resides on Dareth that allows its controller to undo one moment in time. This has led Planeswalker Avienne Rumare, whose home plane of Caeia has been destroyed by the Eldrazi, to Dareth in hopes of finding the Infinity Engine and undoing that event. However, other outside powers have also taken notice and seek the same thing.
New Mechanics
Battlefields of Dareth introduces one new mechanic - retaliate. It also features the return of three mechanics from the first set: Vanguard, Reverberate, and Dominance
Retaliate (If this creature would deal enough damage to creatures it blocks to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to defending player or a planeswalker he or she controls.)
Vanguard (Attacking creatures with vanguard must be blocked, if able, before attacking creatures without vanguard can be blocked.)
Reverberate COST (Whenever you cast a spell with the same converted mana cost as this card, you may cast this card from your graveyard for its reverberate cost. Then exile it.)
Dominance(Whenever a creature attacks and isn't blocked, [EFFECT])
Feedback and Design Help Wanted
I am looking for any and all feedback that can be offered by the MtGS community. Good, bad, indifferent - I want to hear it all. Additionally, given that we are very early in design, I'm interested in hearing any design suggestions from anyone interested in being credited as a contributing designer.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
This is a great time to have this discussion, actually, given that this is exploratory design and therefore nothing is set in stone at this point...
I'll be honest with you: I don't have a big plan to make it 'distinct'. It is, in many ways, more of the same (although I foresee it being much more cohesive from a limited standpoint given the lessons I've learned up to this point). There are new strategies that will be viable, new mechanics to explore, and lots of new stuff from a story perspective, but no big twist of departure from the first set. I don't know if that's ok or not, but that's why we have the discussion.
The good news is set 3 of the block will differ wildly, so this won't be a problem once we get to that point.
Would love to hear anyone's feedback on what they'd like to see this set do in order to be successful as a second set.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
That's fair. But at the end of the day I think, yeah there's enough here for 2 sets. Really, the way this is going to end up is that this basically is a 2-set block, since the 3rd set is completely different.
But let's ask this question - what does a second set need to have to avoid being un-memorable?
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
I think at least one key is to remember Battlefields will be drafted first, and so it will affect significantly the value of certain Generals cards. You no longer draft any Generals card in a vacuum.
This is true, in fact I'm already considering difference I'd like to see in this format (for instance, I'm thinking BFD will include removal spells, something that GEN did not). But is this enough to answer CommanderZ's concerns regarding the '2nd set problem'?
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)
My theory on why you are struggling with this block (I could be wrong of course): Over some time, you gathered a number of themes and mechanics you want to design for, themes and mechanics that are all great in a vacuum, but don't necessarily fit into the set you're trying to design. I know these "I want this to be in the set so badly" moments, but you have to realize that there is maybe a better place for it in a later set.
None of the mechanics scream "Tactical creature combat" to me. I want to see a mechanic called "Gambit" (whatever it does). Where is it, I ask you?
Let's look at your mechanics for both sets:
Vanguard: Some development issues aside, this is a perfect fit for the set.
Reverberate: It's a fine mechanic, but doesn't fit into the "tactical creature combat" theme. As a one-of mechanic, this is ok, like Rebound in Rise of the Eldrazi.
Dominance: You know I've never been a fan of this mechanic. I criticized that you never had any reason to not just use the more conventional "whenever deals combat damage to a player" wording. While the name fits into the world you're trying to build, I don't get what the mechanic has to do with displaying dominance.
Unity: Why a tribal mechanic in a set that shouldn't be about tribal? This doesn't fit into the set at all and the mechanic itself is problematic to say the least.
Retaliate: A fine mechanic again, but does it get across the "tactical creature combat" flavor? The cold war comes to mind, where an attack of one party was detered by the threat of retaliation.
As always, I hope my straightforwardness doesn't make me sound too harsh. I really think you can do a lot better.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
Assist cost (cost: Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand tapped and attacking blocked by a blocking creature.)
sort of reverse ninjutsu. i imagined it mainly for Boros, but could go into any color
........................
No need for the disclaimer, the straightforwardness is welcome.
I think Dominance could stand to have a better name, but I think the mechanic works great in the set, especially when paired with vanguard. The difference between 'attacks and isn't blocked' and 'deals combat damage to a player' is small, but important I think.
Reverberate is there because as much as I want creature combat to be a theme, I'm not not making a set that is 100% creatures. Reverberating tricks or other spells is very tactical, and I think it fits well. That said, it still needs development in GEN. For BFD, I think Reverberate will be easier to do things with because reverberate costs will be non-mana costs, which will make them a bit easier to pull off.
Unity is one I agree with you on, I think. I'm still working with it in GEN but there's every possibility it won't survive. It certainly won't be in BFD.
I'm kinda surprised you don't like Retaliate. I like that it adds another dimension to combat. Yes, it's defensive as opposed to offensive, but it absolutely accomplishes my goal of making combat more interesting and it provides some nice tension when lined up against Vanguard. We'll see how it plays, but I like it.
Outside of Unity (which, btw, if I replace will be replaced with something like Bushido), I don't think my problem is trying to fit ideas into a set that doesn't fit them. I think I had a lot of problems in the initial design of GEN due to the way I approached it. I think I've learned from those mistakes (and am ready to make completely new ones), and I think once BFD is on its way it'll look a lot better.
My custom sets:
Caeia Block (Released - Beta)
Generals of Dareth (In Design)