You're right, it does fit the storyline quite well.
I've made absolutely no progress on the card designs. Been spending all my time working on the cardset for my actual job, couldn't spare mental resources for designing custom cards.
Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays everyone. It's been a month since anyone has posted, but that doesn't mean I've been ignoring this project. Santa dropped off a completed rough-draft list of commons, which I thought I'd share.
cw02 Ethereal Armor W
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 for each enchantment you control and has first strike.
cw03 Skyrider Trainee 4W
Creature — Human Soldier (C)
cw03 Skyrider Trainee has flying as long as it’s enchanted.
3/3
cw04 Gate Hound 2W
Creature — Hound (C)
Creatures you control have vigilance as long as cw04 Gate Hound is enchanted.
1/1
cw05 Shimmering Barrier 1W
Creature — Wall (C)
Defender, first strike
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
1/3
cw06 Daring Skyjek 1W
Creature — Human Knight (C)
Battalion — Whenever cw06 Daring Skyjek and at least two other creatures attack, cw06 Daring Skyjek gains flying until end of turn.
3/1
cw07 Yoked Plowbeast 5WW
Creature — Beast (C)
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
5/5`
cw08 Join the Ranks 3W
Instant (C)
Put two 1/1 white Soldier Ally creature tokens onto the battlefield.
cw09 Wipe Clean 1W
Instant (C)
Exile target enchantment.
Cycling 3 (3, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cw10 Cage of Hands 2W
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can’t attack or block.
1W: Return cw10 Cage of Hands to its owner’s hand.
cw11 1W
Creature — Human Soldier Ally (C)
Whenever cw11 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your team’s control, put a +1/+1 counter on cw11.
0/2
cw12 3W
Creature — Bird (C)
Sidekick 1U (Another player may pay 1U as you cast this spell.)
Flying
When cw12 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, tap or untap target permanent.
2/3
cw13 4W
Creature — Elf Archer (C)
Sidekick 1G (Another player may pay 1G as you cast this spell.)
First strike
When cw13 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target creature with flying.
3/2
cw14 W
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +1/+1 and gains indestructible until end of turn.
cw15 Renewed Faith 2W
Instant (C)
You gain 6 life.
Cycling 1W (1W, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle cw15 Renewed Faith, you may gain 2 life.
cu02 Frozen Solid 1UU
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s untap step.
When enchanted creature is dealt damage, destroy it.
cu03 U
Creature — Insect (C)
cu03 has hexproof as long as it’s enchanted. Fledgling Scuttler
1/1
cu04 2U
Creature — Wall (C)
Defender
U, T: Target player draws a card then discards a card. Northern Library
0/5
cu05 Choking Tethers 3U
Instant (C)
Tap up to four target creatures.
Cycling 1U (1U, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle cu05 Choking Tethers, you may tap target creature.
cu06 Miscalculation 1U
Instant (C)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cu07 Catalog 2U
Instant (C)
Draw two cards, then discard a card.
cu08 3U
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Sidekick 1W (Another player may pay 1W as you cast this spell.)
When cu08 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, exile target creature then return it to the battlefield.
2/4
cu09 1U
Creature — Spirit (C)
Defender
Train 2U (2U, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
0/4
cu10 4U
Creature — Giant Warrior (C)
Train UU (UU, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
3/3
cu11 3U
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Train 2U (2U, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, untap cu11.
2/2
cu12 Font of Fortunes 1U
Enchantment (C)
1U, Sacrifice cu12 Font of Fortunes: Draw two cards.
cu13 5U
Creature — Serpent (C)
Sidekick 1B (Another player may pay 1B as you cast this spell.)
When cu13 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, each player puts the top four cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
5/5
cu14 2U
Creature — Bird Ally (C)
Flying
Whenever cu14 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your control, target creature gains flying until end of turn.
2/1
cu15 Repulse 2U
Instant (C)
Return target creature to its owner’s hand.
Draw a card.
cb01 2B
Instant (C)
Target player sacrifices a creature.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cb02 Unearth B
Sorcery (C)
Return target creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cb03 Stir the Grave XB
Sorcery (C)
Return target creature card with converted mana cost X or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
cb04 Blood Bairn 2B
Creature — Vampire (C)
Sacrifice a creature: cb04 Blood Bairn gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/2
cb05 Dark Privilege 1B
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1.
Sacrifice a creature: Regenerate enchanted creature.
cb06 Rite of Consumption 1B
Sorcery (C)
As an additional cost to cast cb06 Rite of Consumption, sacrifice a creature.
Rite of Consumption deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature’s power to target player. You gain life equal to the damage dealt this way.
cb08 Cadaver Imp 1BB
Creature — Imp (C)
Flying
When cb08 Cadaver Imp enters the battlefield, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
1/1
cb09 Cemetery Gate 2B
Creature — Wall (C)
Defender
Protection from black
0/5
cb10 2B
Instant (C)
Exile all cards from target player’s graveyard.
Cycling 1B (1B, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle cb10, exile target card in a graveyard.
cb11 1BB
Creature — Ogre Ally (C)
When cb11 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your team’s control, each player loses 1 life.
2/3
cb13 6B
Creature — Hound (C)
Sidekick 1R (Another player may pay 1R as you cast this spell.)
When cb13 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, any number of target creatures each gain haste until end of turn. Pathrazer Hound
5/5
cb14 5B
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Sidekick 1U (Another player may pay 1U as you cast this spell.)
When cb14 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, any number of target players each draw a card then discard a card.
3/5
cb15 4B
Creature — Horror Beast (C)
When cb15 enters the battlefield, you draw a card and lose 1 life.
Cycling—2, Pay 1 life (2, Pay 1 life, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
2/2
cr01 Fling 1R
Instant (C)
As an additional cost to cast cr01 Fling, sacrifice a creature.
cr01 Fling deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature’s power to target creature or player.
cr02 Rush of Blood 2R
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is its power.
cr03 Spikeshot Goblin 2R
Creature — Goblin Shaman (C)
T: cr03 Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
1/2
cr04 Inferno Fist 1R
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+0.
R, Sacrifice cr04 Inferno Fist: cr04 Inferno Fist deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
cr05 Arc Runner 2R
Creature — Elemental Ox (C)
Haste
At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice cr05 Arc Runner.
5/1
cr06 Act of Treason 2R
Sorcery (C)
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
cr07 Warmind Infantry 2R
Creature — Elemental Soldier (C)
Battalion — Whenever cr07 Warmind Infantry and at least two other creatures attack, cr07 Warmind Infantry gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
2/3
cr08 Scrap 2R
Instant (C)
Destroy target artifact.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cr09 Macetail Hystrodon 6R
Creature — Beast (C)
First strike, haste
Cycling 3 (3, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
4/4
cr10 R
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Draw a card.
cr11 Drum Crusher 4R
Creature — Human Berserker (C)
Sidekick 2B (Another player may pay 2B as you cast this spell.)
When cr11 Drum Crusher enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target artifact or land.
5/2
cr12 5R
Creature — Ogre Shaman (C)
At the beginning of each combat step, target creature gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
3/3
cr13 2R
Creature — Human Berserker Ally (C)
When cr13 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your team’s control, put a +1/+1 counter on cr13.
1/1
cr14 3R
Creature — Elemental (C)
Sidekick 1G (Another player may pay 1G as you cast this spell.)
When cr14 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, put two +1/+1 counters on another target creature.
R: cr14 gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
0/5
cr15 4RR
Creature — Giant Warrior (C)
cr15 can’t be blocked except by two or more creatures.
5/3
cg01 Soul’s Might 4G
Sorcery (C)
Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is that creature’s power.
cg02 Carapace Armor 2G
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has hexproof.
When cg02 Carapace Armor enters the battlefield, put two 1/1 green Insect creature tokens onto the battlefield.
cg03 Viridian Joiner 2G
Creature — Elf Druid (C)
T: Add to your mana pool an amount of G equal to cg03 Viridian Joiner’s power.
1/2
cg04 Jungle Weaver 5GG
Creature — Spider (C)
Reach
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
5/6
cg05 Lull 1G
Instant (C)
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cg06 Barkhide Mauler 4G
Creature — Beast (C)
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
4/4
cg07 Symbiotic Elf 3G
Creature — Elf Warrior (C)
When cg07 Symbiotic Elf dies, put two 1/1 green Insect creature tokens onto the battlefield.
2/2
cg08 Savage Hunger 2G
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 and has trample.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cg09 Kurgodon Rider 4G
Creature — Human Warrior (C)
Sidekick 1R (Another player may pay 1R as you cast this spell.)
When cg09 Kurgodon Rider enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, target creature gets +4/+0 until end of turn.
4/3
cg10 3G
Creature — Cat (C)
Sidekick 1W (Another player may pay 1W as you cast this spell.)
When cg10 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, target player gains life equal to the number of creatures he or she controls. Saberfang Stalker
2/4
cg11 1GG
Creature — Plant (C)
Defender
5/2
cg12 G
Creature — Elf Shaman (C)
Train 2G (2G, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
1/1
cg13 3G
Creature — Human Warrior (C)
Train 1G (1G, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
2/5
cg14 5G
Creature (C)
Vigilance
Train 1G (1G, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
4/6
cg15 3G
Creature — Elf Warrior Ally (C)
Whenever cg15 or another Ally enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on cg15.
2/2
cm01 Wings of Hope WU
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+3 and has flying.
cm02 Mortus Strider 1UB
Creature — Skeleton (C)
When cm02 Mortus Strider dies, return it to its owner’s hand.
1/1
cm03 Morgue Burst 4BR
Sorcery (C)
Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand. cm03 Morgue Burst deals damage to target creature or player equal to the power of the card returned this way.
cm04 Ruination Wurm 4RG
Creature — Wurm (C)
7^/6
cm05 Sigil Blessing GW
Instant (C)
Until end of turn, target creature you control gets +3/+3 and other creatures you control get +1/+1.
cm06 Pillory of the Sleepless 1WB
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can’t attack or block.
Enchanted creature has “At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.”
cm07 Wee Dragonauts 1UR
Creature — Faerie Wizard (C)
Flying
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, cm07 Wee Dragonauts gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
1/3
cm09 Thundersong Trumpeter RW
Creature — Human Soldier (C)
T: Target creature can’t attack or block this turn.
2/1
cm10 Coiling Oracle GU
Creature — Snake Elf Druid (C)
When Coiling Oracle enters the battlefield, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put that card into your hand.
1/1
cl01 Secluded Steppe
Land (C)
cl01 Secluded Steppe enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add W to your mana pool.
Cycling W (W, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl02 Lonely Sandbar
Land (C)
cl02 Lonely Sandbar enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add U to your mana pool.
Cycling U (U, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl03 Barren Moor
Land (C)
cl03 Barren Moor enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add B to your mana pool.
Cycling B (B, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl04 Forgotten Cave
Land (C)
cl04 Forgotten Cave enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add R to your mana pool.
Cycling R (R, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl05 Tranquil Thicket
Land (C)
cl05 Tranquil Thicket enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add G to your mana pool.
Cycling G (G, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
Great to hear! I've absolutely been ignoring the project, but that's been because I've been working like mad on the cardbase for my job. Since we didn't have a hard deadline of any sort, I let this slide. I hope to get back to this when it quiets down. Will review your work though.
Great to hear! I've absolutely been ignoring the project, but that's been because I've been working like mad on the cardbase for my job. Since we didn't have a hard deadline of any sort, I let this slide. I hope to get back to this when it quiets down. Will review your work though.
Like most hobbies, real life comes first. That's the main reason I don't want any hard deadlines on this project. I'd rather have it done right when we have the time than done by some arbitrary date that makes the cards half baked. Looking forward to the reviews. In the meantime I'll come up with a rough draft for uncommons while I have some time off.
I don't know if MOON-E or void are still interested in the project (I hope so!) and it'd be good to see some of their feedback as well, time permitting.
I'm still here and still interested, just been working on a couple other things.
I would recommend using mana tags when you post text cards, they become infinitely easier to parse.
Improvised Armor: I really like this. It's such a simple design but it makes so much sense given the innate danger of playing auras.
Stir the Grave: This seems like an uncommon to me.
Cemetery Gate: Awesome flavor. Love it.
cg15: Is this supposed to trigger on your opponent's allies too?
Multicolor cards: Is there a reason why these are all reprints from Ravnica? Just curious, some of them seem a bit off to me.
I like most of the cards so far, but I haven't really studied the file well enough to tell if all the themes we talked about earlier are being supported well enough. I will say that I'm still not too keen on Train as an ability, but I haven't worked out a superior replacement to suggest yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Any card with a name is a reprint. All the new cards have placeholder names. I had MSE export them but it got the mana tags wrong, hence the text mana. I'll try to find a workaround or fix for the mana symbol thing. Stir the Grave was originally printed as a common (as was Unearth) but I could see it being uncommon too. I do think that if we intend to have reanimation as a theme that we need some reanimate spells at common... I just went with existing precedent.
The multicolor cards are from Ravnica mostly because Ravnica has the lions-share of common multicolor cards in Wizards' cardbase which I scoured for reprint options. I'd be fine with making new cards for a lot of these slots.
You can have MSE export mana costs as either tags (which are usually incorrect) or as symbols (such as :Cmana:). If you do it the latter way (which is what I do) you need to manually insert spaces between each of these symbols. I usually use this as a way to proof read my post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
True, but it does enable value-reanimation of ETB chumps or let you pay full price after a cheaty attempt gets countered. Might not be the right card for the job, but it has some merits.
@MOON-E: Yeah, it was the manually going through and inserting spaces thing that I wasn't looking forward to. I think I can just do a replace on "::" to ": :" though.
I'm fine with it as a card (though mentioning CMC at common is a redflag and shouldn't be done if we can avoid it, so Raise Dead might be better here as it's effectively the same thing), just mentioning that reanimator strats aren't a reason to keep it in - outside of stuff like Epochrasite that gets stonger when not hardcast.
I've been working toward a first draft of the set, and I'm pretty much done with it. Obviously it's a very rough draft and it hasn't gone through any testing, but I feel like updating the team with the progress.
Excellent! I've been sadly unable to work on this with my other projects taking precedence, so it's great to see you knock out the rough draft. We should meet up sometime to playtest it, or schedule an online one (though that seems hard to do with 2HG in the software I'm familiar with).
I like the art you've found. If you don't mind me asking, what sources do you use to find all of it?
I haven't read through the whole set, but so far I enjoy what I've seen. Sidekick especially seems like it hits the nail on the head. One thing I'd be cautious of though is "you control" effects. Things that count how many things you control or only affect creatures you control are usually the most confusing parts of 2HG, and that's enhanced by the fact you also have "team" effects that will count both you and your partner. For instance, you have an Uncommon Ally that gives allies you control vigilance, but a rare ally that prevents damage to allies your team controls. Other confusing effects are ones like Ethereal Armor. Part of the aura theme is the fact that you can share auras between players, but I could easily see some players confusing auras they control with auras on creatures they control (If Player A enchants Player B's creature, Player B may mistakenly count Player A's aura for the armor). This isn't a huge deal, but it's definitely something you need to be aware of and try to be as consistent as possible.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
That's great feedback MOON-E. The Ally in question was just a typo (I'll blame muscle memory for typing out effects) - all the Ally effects specifically are meant to apply to the whole team. You're very right though about limiting "you control" type effects. It is a bit tricky to get the right balance there, remembering that we wanted the linearity of the set to be a 7-8 on the Lorwyn scale. I'm sure we can make the necessary changes for the gameplay to flow smoothly.
The art is mostly gathered from long hours pouring over deviantart, but also comes from cghub, /r/ImaginaryMonsters and related subreddits, the art thread here, and the occasional lucky google search. I have a folder of around 4500 pieces of art that I tag with a bunch of appropriate keywords (though not nearly enough to find them easily) so it's a bit more reasonable to find related artwork.
Stairc, I'd love to get together and playtest sometime. I'm not sure when I'll have availability, but I'll try to figure out a few options and coordinate over skype.
Excellent! I've been sadly unable to work on this with my other projects taking precedence, so it's great to see you knock out the rough draft. We should meet up sometime to playtest it, or schedule an online one (though that seems hard to do with 2HG in the software I'm familiar with).
Just like to pop in saying that LackeyCCG does 2HG just fine IIRC.
They should really pay me for advertising at this point
@Piar: I found a number of templating errors but didn't write them down. I'll probably go through the file again this afternoon and post a more detailed analysis.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Overall Comments:
- Train feels a little weird in Blue, the flavor doesn't sell as strongly here as it does with the Simic
- Some of these recycle art, but you're probably aware of that
- I strongly suggest making playtest names. Even if they seem silly or pointless, any name is better than no name. Remember that card codes are slots in the card file, not the cards themselves. During design, you're going to be constantly changing what goes in each position, and I can't talk about replacing the card in slot UW07 when it's only name is UW07. Give your cards names, and mark each reprint with an asterisk after it's name so you can tell them apart.
- My personal practice is to use N for uncommons and Y for mythics. This means they will automatically get sorted by MSE in ascending rarity order (makes the card file easier to parse IMO.)
- Your mythic cycle does not seem very mythic to me. It's a cool rare cycle, but I don't get excited by them they way I should for a mythic.
Individual card comments:
- Yoked Plowbeast has a random ' in it's P/T box
- MW02's abilities seem reactive, which feels weird since you can't actually react with them. Also his ultimate seems really un-fun.
- RW07 I don't think the pump ability works. You should use the new "base power and toughness" wording
- UW04 Could this work for your team instead?
- UW06 This should specify "another" attacking creature, just for clarity
- UW08 This is the ally that says you control instead of your team
- UM02 This guy is really cool, but also seems pretty strong. Maybe I'm overvaluing him for a 6 mana walker with no board interaction, but the efficiency on his abilities seem ridiculous
- UM02 Not sure how I feel about this card. Why does it target mono colored creatures?
- RB02 This thing seems pretty insane. Vent Sentinel is a good win con in a defender deck, and this takes it up to eleven (being able to block better and more efficiently kill them). I know it's a rare, but this might be too efficient (as in, not fun)
- UB01 This is a weird card. Is Reminisce a green effect? I mean I know this is supposed to be anti-reanimator tech, but I think the majority of players will read this as a downside.
- CR11 Drum Crusher this sidekick ability is not black. Obviously this card being red means it's not off pie, but it reads incredibly poorly.
- CR12 Battle-Rattle Shaman was an ok card. I know this costs more, but it's also crazy good working on both offense and defense.
- MR01 The wording on this card reads like it untapps all the creatures not in the battalion. You probably just want to tighten it up a bit for clarity.
- RR01 RR07 I'm worried about this type of effect, given they're both doubled in 2HG. I know it's a cool interaction, but I see one-card-kills from 14 life or something coming up too often.
- RR02 Is this a rare? I mean I know it's strong, but fighting is still a 1 for 1 at best, and this offers your creature no protection and isn't even instant speed.
- RR05 I'm not sure if this ability works, but either way it needs to actually say battalion instead of just being an attack trigger
- RG02 This seems a bit absurd. A 3 mana 3/3 that makes three 2/2s when it dies? Sprouting Thrinax was constructed playable, and this is that on steroids.
- Break Asunder is in the file twice, at two different rarities
- UG04 This is a very powerful evasion ability for a very big creature
- UW Legend This seems busted. AFAIK drawing an extra card each turn is supposed to cost more than 4, let alone giving it flash and another ability.
- UB Legend This probably needs to be reworded as a triggered ability (maybe "Whenever a Rogue becomes the target of a spell your opponents control, change the target of that spell to a Rogue creature chosen at random.")
- UM02 This thing is insane for an uncommon. It's removal, reanimation, permanent mindcontrol, and a 5/7.
- Tibalt seems pretty oppressive on turn 2, especially in 2HG where he's a Sulfuric Vortex. He can just sit around ticking up, 0-ing out big creatures, and if he ever ultimates it's hard to lose. That's not necessarily bad, but 2cmc is a dangerous place for walkers.
- RG Legend Your window for using this mana is incredibly limited.
- GW Legend I'm not sure what's going on here. This ability seems a little random, and appears especially weak given it can't make counters itself. I could maybe understand this better if it were an Ally.
- UM05 This seems pretty strong for uncommon. Glorious Anthem is still a powerful effect.
- BW Legend Is there a reason this doesn't gain you "that much" life? I know not every card should, but this card in this set definitely feels like it wants to, especially since this card doesn't really feel legendary at the moment.
- UR Legend I like this card a lot, but it is a bit weird how some of these legends have two clearly defined abilities (some of which even correspond to colors like this one) while others have no indication of being a pair at all.
- Gelectrode I'd just like to say that this is my favorite card, so I'm happy to see it here (even if weird don't creatively make sense in this setting)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Fantastic feedback. I'm going to start by responding to the Overall Comments, then see if the individual cards are worth talking about or just changing based on your suggestions.
- Train feels a little weird in Blue, the flavor doesn't sell as strongly here as it does with the Simic
Agreed. Maybe Stairc had a different vision here for how Train would fit into , but it was hard for me to design interesting cards for it. One thing I was thinking when I reflected on where Train is at: could the set support Bestow instead? I realize Bestow took a lot of complexity points the first time around, but I think we've cut back a lot on our complexity points from where we first started out. It would free us up from having the theme be "auras matter".
- Some of these recycle art, but you're probably aware of that
I didn't intentionally recycle art, but I wasn't super careful about it at this juncture. Once we have more cards nailed down, we can nail down the art too.
- I strongly suggest making playtest names. Even if they seem silly or pointless, any name is better than no name. Remember that card codes are slots in the card file, not the cards themselves. During design, you're going to be constantly changing what goes in each position, and I can't talk about replacing the card in slot UW07 when it's only name is UW07. Give your cards names, and mark each reprint with an asterisk after it's name so you can tell them apart.
I wholeheartedly agree. Usually I would give them all names, but I was focused on just getting the raw ideas down and edited a bit. Playtest names will be included in future revisions.
- My personal practice is to use N for uncommons and Y for mythics. This means they will automatically get sorted by MSE in ascending rarity order (makes the card file easier to parse IMO.)
I'll take it under advisement. I'm not super concerned with that aspect of ordering, but it's probably the right thing to do for critiquing from imgur or a spoiler.
- Your mythic cycle does not seem very mythic to me. It's a cool rare cycle, but I don't get excited by them they way I should for a mythic.
That's a reasonable point. I'm fine with them moving down to rare.
Train fits blue's philosophy very well, but you're right - mechanically it's very odd outside of a specific simic context. It'd probably fit better in green white.
That said, I wouldn't worry about it. It's early design, we just need to try playing a bunch of random stuff. And I think train is going to be like outlast to an extent. You don't' need a ton of interesting designs, the mechanic just needs to do its thing. But if we end up not needing it, cool.
The two recycles I can remember off the top of my head were Daring Skyjeck + the Red Dragon, and the green common red sidekick card + the green rare lizard thing (as you can see, names are important).
I know you probably didn't want to "waste" time giving them all names, but I would recommend just naming them functionally at first. Stuff like "Common Wall", "White Flier", "Red Sidekick" etc. just makes things a lot easier to parse.
The card code thing is just my personal touch, because I go crazy having my uncommons underneath my rares. Not everyone is bothered as much as I am by this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Made a few updates to the imgur album and the pdf. Mostly placeholder names and reordering of uncommons, but I also made a few tweaks to individual cards that got mentioned. The Invokers are still at mythic just because I haven't bothered yet to do the necessary rearranging of rares.
Definitely seems like the next step is to throw together a playtest. What ways do you guys typically playtest a magic set? I've heard different ways to do it, mostly involving commons.
I did a small playtest with a friend. Each of us had a sealed pool, built two decks, and piloted a "team" against the other. Less than ideal for the actual goal of the set (You can't really high-five yourself) but it at least provided a sense of some of the mechanics and themes. Didn't play with all of the themes of course, but our decks worked out enough that we could play towards the themes in the OP.
Train is a functional mechanic, but didn't feel right. Its cool to buff your teammates' guy(s), but you aren't going to high-five when it happens every turn and is predictable. Probably going to cut it.
Cycling is a good mechanic for this format. The support for cycling in BG was a bit lackluster from what I experienced, but with some tweaks it can be in a good spot.
Sidekick should probably either be on spells or on creatures but not both just to keep the mechanic focused. It played fine on both, and I felt like decks were synergizing well when a card was kicked. In either case, sidekick should include splashier effects at higher rarities, as it's one of our best ways to create high-five moments. Going to try to find more room for this mechanic.
Neither of us ended up going for an Allies plan. Not sure if the cards weren't exciting enough on their own, we got unlucky with distribution, there aren't enough in the set, or we just mis-evaluated them.
There are definitely some power issues on individual cards, but that'll be tweaked when the set is more stable.
A high number of reprints allowed for quicker evaluation, but limited the chance to do new things (like Sidekick).
Overall, I think it was a valuable experience. I learned about things that worked and didn't work. I've been thinking about a redesign a lot this week, and I'm curious to hear what you all think of the following layout:
Mechanics:
Cycling
Sidekick
Battalion?
Refresh (Untap up to N target lands.)
Parley?
Allies
New Card Type - Objective (Conspiracies with a condition that transform into emblems.)
Great report. I'm still in Portland, and I'd like to try and make time to do a test. We can surely get 2 other people involved.
What you said about Train makes sense, too frequent and it'll lose the thrill. It's also not like Outlast in creating interesting tension, because you aren't steadily tapping a bigger creature to make it happen. Glad to hear Sidekick is working well, seems like it's going to do a lot of good in the set.
The archetypes seem fine overall, but I'm less than enthused about "lifegain matters" - considering it'll stretch out what's already a long format
It'd be great to get a test in with you, I don't expect the revamp to take too long (hopefully a week? That might be ambitious). Lifegain matters was a suggestion from my playtesting partner, which he suggested because "It'd be cool for one deck to play a life gain card, and trigger their teammates' cards." If we do go for that archtype, I'd imagine a lot of smaller, incidental lifegain cards (no Rest for the Weary, but maybe Aerial Predation) with cards that care about lifegain like Ajani's Pridemate. I definitely agree with you that we already have a long format on our hands here, so it might be better to go with either tokens or a +1/+1 counters matter archtype instead.
Here's a draft of what I anticipate to be all the common sidekick spells (10 of them). Not sure if/when enemy paired sidekick costs should come up. I tried to find effects that players could play with equal mana investment... I doubt it's entirely necessary but it makes for good symmetry and easier tracking across the set ("This card costs 3, so its sidekick cost is 3"). Out of all of them, I'm not sure about Flicker Teamwork rules-wise and Rampant Teamwork complexity-wise.
Icy Teamwork1W
Instant (C)
Sidekick 1U
Tap two target creatures. If Icy Teamwork was kicked, those creatures don't untap during their controllers' next untap step.
Token Teamwork1W
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1G
Put two 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield. If Token Teamwork was kicked, put a +1/+1 counter on each of those creatures.
Bounce Teamwork1U
Instant (C)
Sidekick 1B
Return target creature to its owner's hand. If Bounce Teamwork was kicked, target player discards a card.
Flicker Teamwork1U
Instant (C)
Sidekick 1W
Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield. If Flicker Teamwork was kicked, that creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
Dark TeamworkB
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick U
You draw a card and lose 1 life. Then if Dark Teamwork was kicked, draw a card.
Angry Teamwork1B
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1R
Angry Teamwork deals 2 damage to target creature and you gain 2 life. If Angry Teamwork was kicked, it deals 2 damage to that creature's controller.
Reckless Teamwork1R
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1B
Discard a card, then draw two cards. If Reckless Teamwork was kicked, choose a creature card in a graveyard and return it to its owner's hand.
Battle Teamwork1R
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1G
Target creature gets +3/+0 until end of turn. If Battle Teamwork was kicked, that creature's controller chooses another creature and those creatures fight.
Rampant Teamwork2G
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 2R
Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. If Rampant Teamwork was kicked, that land is a 4/4 Elemental creature with haste until end of turn. It's still a land.
Protection TeamworkG
Instant (C)
Sidekick W
Target creature gains hexproof until end of turn. If Protection Teamwork was kicked, that creature also gains indestructible until end of turn.
I've made absolutely no progress on the card designs. Been spending all my time working on the cardset for my actual job, couldn't spare mental resources for designing custom cards.
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Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+5.
Cycling 3 (3, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cw02 Ethereal Armor W
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 for each enchantment you control and has first strike.
cw03 Skyrider Trainee 4W
Creature — Human Soldier (C)
cw03 Skyrider Trainee has flying as long as it’s enchanted.
3/3
cw04 Gate Hound 2W
Creature — Hound (C)
Creatures you control have vigilance as long as cw04 Gate Hound is enchanted.
1/1
cw05 Shimmering Barrier 1W
Creature — Wall (C)
Defender, first strike
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
1/3
cw06 Daring Skyjek 1W
Creature — Human Knight (C)
Battalion — Whenever cw06 Daring Skyjek and at least two other creatures attack, cw06 Daring Skyjek gains flying until end of turn.
3/1
cw07 Yoked Plowbeast 5WW
Creature — Beast (C)
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
5/5`
cw08 Join the Ranks 3W
Instant (C)
Put two 1/1 white Soldier Ally creature tokens onto the battlefield.
cw09 Wipe Clean 1W
Instant (C)
Exile target enchantment.
Cycling 3 (3, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cw10 Cage of Hands 2W
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can’t attack or block.
1W: Return cw10 Cage of Hands to its owner’s hand.
cw11 1W
Creature — Human Soldier Ally (C)
Whenever cw11 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your team’s control, put a +1/+1 counter on cw11.
0/2
cw12 3W
Creature — Bird (C)
Sidekick 1U (Another player may pay 1U as you cast this spell.)
Flying
When cw12 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, tap or untap target permanent.
2/3
cw13 4W
Creature — Elf Archer (C)
Sidekick 1G (Another player may pay 1G as you cast this spell.)
First strike
When cw13 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target creature with flying.
3/2
cw14 W
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +1/+1 and gains indestructible until end of turn.
cw15 Renewed Faith 2W
Instant (C)
You gain 6 life.
Cycling 1W (1W, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle cw15 Renewed Faith, you may gain 2 life.
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Flash
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has hexproof.
cu02 Frozen Solid 1UU
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s untap step.
When enchanted creature is dealt damage, destroy it.
cu03 U
Creature — Insect (C)
cu03 has hexproof as long as it’s enchanted.
Fledgling Scuttler
1/1
cu04 2U
Creature — Wall (C)
Defender
U, T: Target player draws a card then discards a card.
Northern Library
0/5
cu05 Choking Tethers 3U
Instant (C)
Tap up to four target creatures.
Cycling 1U (1U, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle cu05 Choking Tethers, you may tap target creature.
cu06 Miscalculation 1U
Instant (C)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cu07 Catalog 2U
Instant (C)
Draw two cards, then discard a card.
cu08 3U
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Sidekick 1W (Another player may pay 1W as you cast this spell.)
When cu08 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, exile target creature then return it to the battlefield.
2/4
cu09 1U
Creature — Spirit (C)
Defender
Train 2U (2U, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
0/4
cu10 4U
Creature — Giant Warrior (C)
Train UU (UU, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
3/3
cu11 3U
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Train 2U (2U, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, untap cu11.
2/2
cu12 Font of Fortunes 1U
Enchantment (C)
1U, Sacrifice cu12 Font of Fortunes: Draw two cards.
cu13 5U
Creature — Serpent (C)
Sidekick 1B (Another player may pay 1B as you cast this spell.)
When cu13 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, each player puts the top four cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
5/5
cu14 2U
Creature — Bird Ally (C)
Flying
Whenever cu14 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your control, target creature gains flying until end of turn.
2/1
cu15 Repulse 2U
Instant (C)
Return target creature to its owner’s hand.
Draw a card.
Instant (C)
Target player sacrifices a creature.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cb02 Unearth B
Sorcery (C)
Return target creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cb03 Stir the Grave XB
Sorcery (C)
Return target creature card with converted mana cost X or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
cb04 Blood Bairn 2B
Creature — Vampire (C)
Sacrifice a creature: cb04 Blood Bairn gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
2/2
cb05 Dark Privilege 1B
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1.
Sacrifice a creature: Regenerate enchanted creature.
cb06 Rite of Consumption 1B
Sorcery (C)
As an additional cost to cast cb06 Rite of Consumption, sacrifice a creature.
Rite of Consumption deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature’s power to target player. You gain life equal to the damage dealt this way.
cb07 Carnivorous Roach 3B
Creature — Insect (C)
Sacrifice a creature: Regenerate cb07 Carnivorous Roach.
4/2
cb08 Cadaver Imp 1BB
Creature — Imp (C)
Flying
When cb08 Cadaver Imp enters the battlefield, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
1/1
cb09 Cemetery Gate 2B
Creature — Wall (C)
Defender
Protection from black
0/5
cb10 2B
Instant (C)
Exile all cards from target player’s graveyard.
Cycling 1B (1B, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
When you cycle cb10, exile target card in a graveyard.
cb11 1BB
Creature — Ogre Ally (C)
When cb11 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your team’s control, each player loses 1 life.
2/3
cb12 4B
Creature — Zombie Lizard (C)
cb12 can’t block.
5/3
cb13 6B
Creature — Hound (C)
Sidekick 1R (Another player may pay 1R as you cast this spell.)
When cb13 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, any number of target creatures each gain haste until end of turn.
Pathrazer Hound
5/5
cb14 5B
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Sidekick 1U (Another player may pay 1U as you cast this spell.)
When cb14 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, any number of target players each draw a card then discard a card.
3/5
cb15 4B
Creature — Horror Beast (C)
When cb15 enters the battlefield, you draw a card and lose 1 life.
Cycling—2, Pay 1 life (2, Pay 1 life, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
2/2
Instant (C)
As an additional cost to cast cr01 Fling, sacrifice a creature.
cr01 Fling deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature’s power to target creature or player.
cr02 Rush of Blood 2R
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is its power.
cr03 Spikeshot Goblin 2R
Creature — Goblin Shaman (C)
T: cr03 Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.
1/2
cr04 Inferno Fist 1R
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +2/+0.
R, Sacrifice cr04 Inferno Fist: cr04 Inferno Fist deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
cr05 Arc Runner 2R
Creature — Elemental Ox (C)
Haste
At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice cr05 Arc Runner.
5/1
cr06 Act of Treason 2R
Sorcery (C)
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
cr07 Warmind Infantry 2R
Creature — Elemental Soldier (C)
Battalion — Whenever cr07 Warmind Infantry and at least two other creatures attack, cr07 Warmind Infantry gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
2/3
cr08 Scrap 2R
Instant (C)
Destroy target artifact.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cr09 Macetail Hystrodon 6R
Creature — Beast (C)
First strike, haste
Cycling 3 (3, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
4/4
cr10 R
Instant (C)
Target creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Draw a card.
cr11 Drum Crusher 4R
Creature — Human Berserker (C)
Sidekick 2B (Another player may pay 2B as you cast this spell.)
When cr11 Drum Crusher enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target artifact or land.
5/2
cr12 5R
Creature — Ogre Shaman (C)
At the beginning of each combat step, target creature gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
3/3
cr13 2R
Creature — Human Berserker Ally (C)
When cr13 or another Ally enters the battlefield under your team’s control, put a +1/+1 counter on cr13.
1/1
cr14 3R
Creature — Elemental (C)
Sidekick 1G (Another player may pay 1G as you cast this spell.)
When cr14 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, put two +1/+1 counters on another target creature.
R: cr14 gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
0/5
cr15 4RR
Creature — Giant Warrior (C)
cr15 can’t be blocked except by two or more creatures.
5/3
Sorcery (C)
Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is that creature’s power.
cg02 Carapace Armor 2G
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has hexproof.
When cg02 Carapace Armor enters the battlefield, put two 1/1 green Insect creature tokens onto the battlefield.
cg03 Viridian Joiner 2G
Creature — Elf Druid (C)
T: Add to your mana pool an amount of G equal to cg03 Viridian Joiner’s power.
1/2
cg04 Jungle Weaver 5GG
Creature — Spider (C)
Reach
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
5/6
cg05 Lull 1G
Instant (C)
Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cg06 Barkhide Mauler 4G
Creature — Beast (C)
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
4/4
cg07 Symbiotic Elf 3G
Creature — Elf Warrior (C)
When cg07 Symbiotic Elf dies, put two 1/1 green Insect creature tokens onto the battlefield.
2/2
cg08 Savage Hunger 2G
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 and has trample.
Cycling 2 (2, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cg09 Kurgodon Rider 4G
Creature — Human Warrior (C)
Sidekick 1R (Another player may pay 1R as you cast this spell.)
When cg09 Kurgodon Rider enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, target creature gets +4/+0 until end of turn.
4/3
cg10 3G
Creature — Cat (C)
Sidekick 1W (Another player may pay 1W as you cast this spell.)
When cg10 enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, target player gains life equal to the number of creatures he or she controls.
Saberfang Stalker
2/4
cg11 1GG
Creature — Plant (C)
Defender
5/2
cg12 G
Creature — Elf Shaman (C)
Train 2G (2G, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
1/1
cg13 3G
Creature — Human Warrior (C)
Train 1G (1G, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
2/5
cg14 5G
Creature (C)
Vigilance
Train 1G (1G, T: Put a +1/+1 counter on another target creature. Train only as a sorcery.)
4/6
cg15 3G
Creature — Elf Warrior Ally (C)
Whenever cg15 or another Ally enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on cg15.
2/2
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+3 and has flying.
cm02 Mortus Strider 1UB
Creature — Skeleton (C)
When cm02 Mortus Strider dies, return it to its owner’s hand.
1/1
cm03 Morgue Burst 4BR
Sorcery (C)
Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand. cm03 Morgue Burst deals damage to target creature or player equal to the power of the card returned this way.
cm04 Ruination Wurm 4RG
Creature — Wurm (C)
7^/6
cm05 Sigil Blessing GW
Instant (C)
Until end of turn, target creature you control gets +3/+3 and other creatures you control get +1/+1.
cm06 Pillory of the Sleepless 1WB
Enchantment — Aura (C)
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature can’t attack or block.
Enchanted creature has “At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.”
cm07 Wee Dragonauts 1UR
Creature — Faerie Wizard (C)
Flying
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, cm07 Wee Dragonauts gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
1/3
cm08 Trestle Troll 1BG
Creature — Troll (C)
Defender
Reach
1BG: Regenerate cm08 Trestle Troll.
1/4
cm09 Thundersong Trumpeter RW
Creature — Human Soldier (C)
T: Target creature can’t attack or block this turn.
2/1
cm10 Coiling Oracle GU
Creature — Snake Elf Druid (C)
When Coiling Oracle enters the battlefield, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put that card into your hand.
1/1
Artifact Creature — Cat Ally (C)
2/2
ca02 3
Artifact — Equipment (C)
Equipped creature gets +3/+2.
Equip 3
cl01 Secluded Steppe
Land (C)
cl01 Secluded Steppe enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add W to your mana pool.
Cycling W (W, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl02 Lonely Sandbar
Land (C)
cl02 Lonely Sandbar enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add U to your mana pool.
Cycling U (U, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl03 Barren Moor
Land (C)
cl03 Barren Moor enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add B to your mana pool.
Cycling B (B, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl04 Forgotten Cave
Land (C)
cl04 Forgotten Cave enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add R to your mana pool.
Cycling R (R, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
cl05 Tranquil Thicket
Land (C)
cl05 Tranquil Thicket enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add G to your mana pool.
Cycling G (G, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
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I don't know if MOON-E or void are still interested in the project (I hope so!) and it'd be good to see some of their feedback as well, time permitting.
I would recommend using mana tags when you post text cards, they become infinitely easier to parse.
Improvised Armor: I really like this. It's such a simple design but it makes so much sense given the innate danger of playing auras.
Stir the Grave: This seems like an uncommon to me.
Cemetery Gate: Awesome flavor. Love it.
cg15: Is this supposed to trigger on your opponent's allies too?
Multicolor cards: Is there a reason why these are all reprints from Ravnica? Just curious, some of them seem a bit off to me.
I like most of the cards so far, but I haven't really studied the file well enough to tell if all the themes we talked about earlier are being supported well enough. I will say that I'm still not too keen on Train as an ability, but I haven't worked out a superior replacement to suggest yet.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
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Sig-Heroes of the Plane
The multicolor cards are from Ravnica mostly because Ravnica has the lions-share of common multicolor cards in Wizards' cardbase which I scoured for reprint options. I'd be fine with making new cards for a lot of these slots.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
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The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
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@MOON-E: Yeah, it was the manually going through and inserting spaces thing that I wasn't looking forward to. I think I can just do a replace on "::" to ": :" though.
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I've been working toward a first draft of the set, and I'm pretty much done with it. Obviously it's a very rough draft and it hasn't gone through any testing, but I feel like updating the team with the progress.
I've uploaded the images to this album here, and a text pdf is available here.
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I haven't read through the whole set, but so far I enjoy what I've seen. Sidekick especially seems like it hits the nail on the head. One thing I'd be cautious of though is "you control" effects. Things that count how many things you control or only affect creatures you control are usually the most confusing parts of 2HG, and that's enhanced by the fact you also have "team" effects that will count both you and your partner. For instance, you have an Uncommon Ally that gives allies you control vigilance, but a rare ally that prevents damage to allies your team controls. Other confusing effects are ones like Ethereal Armor. Part of the aura theme is the fact that you can share auras between players, but I could easily see some players confusing auras they control with auras on creatures they control (If Player A enchants Player B's creature, Player B may mistakenly count Player A's aura for the armor). This isn't a huge deal, but it's definitely something you need to be aware of and try to be as consistent as possible.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
The art is mostly gathered from long hours pouring over deviantart, but also comes from cghub, /r/ImaginaryMonsters and related subreddits, the art thread here, and the occasional lucky google search. I have a folder of around 4500 pieces of art that I tag with a bunch of appropriate keywords (though not nearly enough to find them easily) so it's a bit more reasonable to find related artwork.
Stairc, I'd love to get together and playtest sometime. I'm not sure when I'll have availability, but I'll try to figure out a few options and coordinate over skype.
They should really pay me for advertising at this point
@Piar: I found a number of templating errors but didn't write them down. I'll probably go through the file again this afternoon and post a more detailed analysis.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Overall Comments:
- Train feels a little weird in Blue, the flavor doesn't sell as strongly here as it does with the Simic
- Some of these recycle art, but you're probably aware of that
- I strongly suggest making playtest names. Even if they seem silly or pointless, any name is better than no name. Remember that card codes are slots in the card file, not the cards themselves. During design, you're going to be constantly changing what goes in each position, and I can't talk about replacing the card in slot UW07 when it's only name is UW07. Give your cards names, and mark each reprint with an asterisk after it's name so you can tell them apart.
- My personal practice is to use N for uncommons and Y for mythics. This means they will automatically get sorted by MSE in ascending rarity order (makes the card file easier to parse IMO.)
- Your mythic cycle does not seem very mythic to me. It's a cool rare cycle, but I don't get excited by them they way I should for a mythic.
Individual card comments:
- Yoked Plowbeast has a random ' in it's P/T box
- MW02's abilities seem reactive, which feels weird since you can't actually react with them. Also his ultimate seems really un-fun.
- RW07 I don't think the pump ability works. You should use the new "base power and toughness" wording
- UW04 Could this work for your team instead?
- UW06 This should specify "another" attacking creature, just for clarity
- UW08 This is the ally that says you control instead of your team
- UM02 This guy is really cool, but also seems pretty strong. Maybe I'm overvaluing him for a 6 mana walker with no board interaction, but the efficiency on his abilities seem ridiculous
- UM02 Not sure how I feel about this card. Why does it target mono colored creatures?
- RB02 This thing seems pretty insane. Vent Sentinel is a good win con in a defender deck, and this takes it up to eleven (being able to block better and more efficiently kill them). I know it's a rare, but this might be too efficient (as in, not fun)
- UB01 This is a weird card. Is Reminisce a green effect? I mean I know this is supposed to be anti-reanimator tech, but I think the majority of players will read this as a downside.
- CR11 Drum Crusher this sidekick ability is not black. Obviously this card being red means it's not off pie, but it reads incredibly poorly.
- CR12 Battle-Rattle Shaman was an ok card. I know this costs more, but it's also crazy good working on both offense and defense.
- MR01 The wording on this card reads like it untapps all the creatures not in the battalion. You probably just want to tighten it up a bit for clarity.
- RR01 RR07 I'm worried about this type of effect, given they're both doubled in 2HG. I know it's a cool interaction, but I see one-card-kills from 14 life or something coming up too often.
- RR02 Is this a rare? I mean I know it's strong, but fighting is still a 1 for 1 at best, and this offers your creature no protection and isn't even instant speed.
- RR05 I'm not sure if this ability works, but either way it needs to actually say battalion instead of just being an attack trigger
- RG02 This seems a bit absurd. A 3 mana 3/3 that makes three 2/2s when it dies? Sprouting Thrinax was constructed playable, and this is that on steroids.
- Break Asunder is in the file twice, at two different rarities
- UG04 This is a very powerful evasion ability for a very big creature
- UW Legend This seems busted. AFAIK drawing an extra card each turn is supposed to cost more than 4, let alone giving it flash and another ability.
- UB Legend This probably needs to be reworded as a triggered ability (maybe "Whenever a Rogue becomes the target of a spell your opponents control, change the target of that spell to a Rogue creature chosen at random.")
- UM02 This thing is insane for an uncommon. It's removal, reanimation, permanent mindcontrol, and a 5/7.
- Tibalt seems pretty oppressive on turn 2, especially in 2HG where he's a Sulfuric Vortex. He can just sit around ticking up, 0-ing out big creatures, and if he ever ultimates it's hard to lose. That's not necessarily bad, but 2cmc is a dangerous place for walkers.
- RG Legend Your window for using this mana is incredibly limited.
- GW Legend I'm not sure what's going on here. This ability seems a little random, and appears especially weak given it can't make counters itself. I could maybe understand this better if it were an Ally.
- UM05 This seems pretty strong for uncommon. Glorious Anthem is still a powerful effect.
- BW Legend Is there a reason this doesn't gain you "that much" life? I know not every card should, but this card in this set definitely feels like it wants to, especially since this card doesn't really feel legendary at the moment.
- UR Legend I like this card a lot, but it is a bit weird how some of these legends have two clearly defined abilities (some of which even correspond to colors like this one) while others have no indication of being a pair at all.
- Gelectrode I'd just like to say that this is my favorite card, so I'm happy to see it here (even if weird don't creatively make sense in this setting)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Agreed. Maybe Stairc had a different vision here for how Train would fit into , but it was hard for me to design interesting cards for it. One thing I was thinking when I reflected on where Train is at: could the set support Bestow instead? I realize Bestow took a lot of complexity points the first time around, but I think we've cut back a lot on our complexity points from where we first started out. It would free us up from having the theme be "auras matter".
I didn't intentionally recycle art, but I wasn't super careful about it at this juncture. Once we have more cards nailed down, we can nail down the art too.
I wholeheartedly agree. Usually I would give them all names, but I was focused on just getting the raw ideas down and edited a bit. Playtest names will be included in future revisions.
I'll take it under advisement. I'm not super concerned with that aspect of ordering, but it's probably the right thing to do for critiquing from imgur or a spoiler.
That's a reasonable point. I'm fine with them moving down to rare.
That said, I wouldn't worry about it. It's early design, we just need to try playing a bunch of random stuff. And I think train is going to be like outlast to an extent. You don't' need a ton of interesting designs, the mechanic just needs to do its thing. But if we end up not needing it, cool.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
I know you probably didn't want to "waste" time giving them all names, but I would recommend just naming them functionally at first. Stuff like "Common Wall", "White Flier", "Red Sidekick" etc. just makes things a lot easier to parse.
The card code thing is just my personal touch, because I go crazy having my uncommons underneath my rares. Not everyone is bothered as much as I am by this.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Definitely seems like the next step is to throw together a playtest. What ways do you guys typically playtest a magic set? I've heard different ways to do it, mostly involving commons.
Overall, I think it was a valuable experience. I learned about things that worked and didn't work. I've been thinking about a redesign a lot this week, and I'm curious to hear what you all think of the following layout:
WU: Defenders
UB:
TapoutReactive/Flash control (Parley?)BR: Reanimator
RG: Power matters. Or Sneak/Piper?
GW: Lifegain matters
WB: Auras
UR: Spells matter
BG: Cycling matters
RW: "Each attacking creature"
GU: Turbofog
Mechanics:
Cycling
Sidekick
Battalion?
Refresh (Untap up to N target lands.)
Parley?
Allies
New Card Type - Objective (Conspiracies with a condition that transform into emblems.)
What you said about Train makes sense, too frequent and it'll lose the thrill. It's also not like Outlast in creating interesting tension, because you aren't steadily tapping a bigger creature to make it happen. Glad to hear Sidekick is working well, seems like it's going to do a lot of good in the set.
The archetypes seem fine overall, but I'm less than enthused about "lifegain matters" - considering it'll stretch out what's already a long format
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Icy Teamwork 1W
Instant (C)
Sidekick 1U
Tap two target creatures. If Icy Teamwork was kicked, those creatures don't untap during their controllers' next untap step.
Token Teamwork 1W
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1G
Put two 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield. If Token Teamwork was kicked, put a +1/+1 counter on each of those creatures.
Bounce Teamwork 1U
Instant (C)
Sidekick 1B
Return target creature to its owner's hand. If Bounce Teamwork was kicked, target player discards a card.
Flicker Teamwork 1U
Instant (C)
Sidekick 1W
Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield. If Flicker Teamwork was kicked, that creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
Dark Teamwork B
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick U
You draw a card and lose 1 life. Then if Dark Teamwork was kicked, draw a card.
Angry Teamwork 1B
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1R
Angry Teamwork deals 2 damage to target creature and you gain 2 life. If Angry Teamwork was kicked, it deals 2 damage to that creature's controller.
Reckless Teamwork 1R
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1B
Discard a card, then draw two cards. If Reckless Teamwork was kicked, choose a creature card in a graveyard and return it to its owner's hand.
Battle Teamwork 1R
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 1G
Target creature gets +3/+0 until end of turn. If Battle Teamwork was kicked, that creature's controller chooses another creature and those creatures fight.
Rampant Teamwork 2G
Sorcery (C)
Sidekick 2R
Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. If Rampant Teamwork was kicked, that land is a 4/4 Elemental creature with haste until end of turn. It's still a land.
Protection Teamwork G
Instant (C)
Sidekick W
Target creature gains hexproof until end of turn. If Protection Teamwork was kicked, that creature also gains indestructible until end of turn.