I think we could make auras that represent super powers, but not make them a major focusing point. Lee can flavor them as an accident that gave super powers, or a chemical that gives extra strength, etc etc.
Do we want to do a "mutants enter the battlefield as a superhero" thing, or do we want to have them enter as a "normal" person and then "power-up"?
I prefer the former, but the latter might be easier.
For instance, we could do the latter as a riff on monstrous.
Wolverine2RR
Creature - Human (R) 1R Mutation - First Strike (This creature gains First Strike.) R Mutation - Haste (this creature gains haste.)
4/2
To make things less confusing, you could combine them like
RRR Mutation - First Strike, Haste (This creature gains First Strike and Haste.)
Yes, there could be memory issues, but with all the stuff Magic can make you track I think players would be able to handle it. I think "gaining abilities" fits much more with mutations than just getting counters.
Maybe the answer is to make Mutants be like Unleash/Monstrous. As they come into play, you may put X counters on them. If you do, effect.
Steelskin Crasher 2RR
Creature -- Mutant Barbarian 1R: Mutation 2 (Put a mutation counter on ~. Activate only if there are fewer than two mutation counters on ~. Activate only once per turn.)
~ gets +X/+X, haste and "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, you may have it deal damage equal to its' power to target creature.", where X is the number of mutation counters on ~.
2/2
Should Mutants deal with a power threshold, rather than a +1/+1 counter threshold? Basically, the Greenhilt Trainee restriction. If not a mechanic (because it would be ridiculous trying to fit a single power as a threshold), maybe as a small subtheme. It supports both Equipment and +1/+1 counters.
I'm super glad you brought this up, because I was just about to suggest the same thing. I think what this set needs is some way of distinguishing "supers". One of my ideas was a power threshold similar to Naya's "power 5". It seems like a perfect fit; natural born heroes can just be big to begin with, mutants can grow to hit the threshold, and other creatures can strap on equipment to boost themselves up. I really dig this idea.
Name aside, it's actually Monstrous in my opinion, not Evolve, that fits the Mutants flavour fully. It's about one-off growth, right? I do like Evolve, although it makes the set really weird to design.
While the name is a little weird (it'd be great to have them become mutants after activation), monstrous does fit quite nicely. (Plus, it can run double duty for both mutants and monsters.) I dismissed this earlier because the flavor is awkward, but I could definitely reconsider.
Also, not related to the current issue at hand, but I thought I'd mention that making heroes overall more reactive, and villains more proactive (I think counterspells are more of a hero-flavoured thing). At the same time, it makes sense for the heroes to be aggro and villains to be grindy. There is a weird tension in making something both grindy and proactive though.
I think the solution is just to strike different chords in different places. Like, maybe a RW hero deck is aggressive but a WU hero deck is reactive. Maybe a UB villain deck is super grindy but a BR villain deck is proactive. I agree there's tension, but I also think we can manage it all.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Should Mutants deal with a power threshold, rather than a +1/+1 counter threshold? Basically, the Greenhilt Trainee restriction. If not a mechanic (because it would be ridiculous trying to fit a single power as a threshold), maybe as a small subtheme. It supports both Equipment and +1/+1 counters.
I'm super glad you brought this up, because I was just about to suggest the same thing. I think what this set needs is some way of distinguishing "supers". One of my ideas was a power threshold similar to Naya's "power 5". It seems like a perfect fit; natural born heroes can just be big to begin with, mutants can grow to hit the threshold, and other creatures can strap on equipment to boost themselves up. I really dig this idea.
I like this idea it can also help separate the small common everyday heroes from bigger heroes
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Yeah, with Mutants I was thinking of something that was introduced in XMEN which was the idea of a secondary mutation. That said my idea of a number of tokens is not as simple and fast as a threshold, so I would go with a threshold like you guys suggest, if abilities do activate with certain power.
Maybe in size:
Monsters: generally huge creatures, kaiju, etc.
Mutants: start relatively powerful and are able to grow.
Humans: use a lot of artifacts and enchantments to get up to 'fighting size'
Also I really like the idea of doing some MILL as massive collateral damage. In other words some Blue, Black and a couple of Black/Blue or black/red villains that 'endanger the city'. Also Mill tends to be relatively cheap, so you can force the heroes to spend a ton of effort on stopping the death and destruction that your artifacts, spells and creatures are creating. These tend to be Batman Villain types, the serial killer, the mad bomber, the eco terrorist, the crazed cultist.
This is nice; I feel like we are firming up some idea of what the set wants to be. It looks like it will be semi-battle cruiser magic, which I am fine with.
I suggest a semi-monstrous for mutants, as that will enable us to smooth out curves. The same goes for "tech based" heroes, who can be at lower power levels but increase greatly with artifacts/equipment. (Super genius types.)
Then we have the Supermen type, who will be at higher CMCs, as well as big monsters.
I think villains should be, on average, at least 1 CMC higher than heroes.
At the lower levels, we can have civilian type forces, police, thieves, crooks, criminals etc etc.
And even though we are looking at a power level threshold, we should have some low powered heroes and villains also.
Also I really like the idea of doing some MILL as massive collateral damage. In other words some Blue, Black and a couple of Black/Blue or black/red villains that 'endanger the city'. Also Mill tends to be relatively cheap, so you can force the heroes to spend a ton of effort on stopping the death and destruction that your artifacts, spells and creatures are creating. These tend to be Batman Villain types, the serial killer, the mad bomber, the eco terrorist, the crazed cultist.
I think that in general it'd be nice for the villains to have a number of alternate win conditions (mill and others) to give them the feel of some dastardly plan.
And even though we are looking at a power level threshold, we should have some low powered heroes and villains also.
I think for the power threshold to work, anyone who's super has to surpass it. Of course, there are plenty of people who don't meet that requirement: Law enforcement, side kicks, pre-equipment heroes, evil henchmen, non-super villains, civilians, etc. However, I think anyone who is supposed to be super needs to pass the threshold or have the potential to pass it alone (i.e. mutants).
Also, while we're on the topic, what's the number we're looking at? I think 4 is a good place; it feels big enough to be special but not as big as Naya's 5.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I think 4 feels better then 5 as well. How are we going to recognize "power 4 or greater" though? Mechanics? Interactions? Etc etc.
When I am talking about heroes/villains, I mean French vanillas. Maybe a tough guy with trample, a guy with wings having only flying, etc etc. I think we can have a range of heroes and villains, while still noting a distinct power level.
(For instance, DC has Booster Gold, Batman and Superman. Batman and Superman are considered to be a lot more equal than Booster Gold. In the same vein, Marvel has Spider-Man, Hulk and Blade. Spider-Man can use his intelligence to try going up against Hulk, but Blade has no chance against either.)
I certainly think we can have heroes that aren't 4 power or more. Some heroes use intelligence, powers, etc etc. it would stink if all out "supers" had to be able to lift cars over their head.
See, I think the power threshold just represents how supers are naturally tougher and stronger than non-supers. IMO, in this set 4 power doesn't mean you have super strength, it just means you're slightly better than everyone else (I think the scale for this set is going to be a lot higher than normal. Everything's epic sized.)
When I'm talking about a power threshold mechanic I'm talking about doing it as a theme, like in Naya. Cards like Drumhunter, Mighty Emergence, and Mycoid Shepard, removal that only hits cards of a certain power, etc. In Naya they were flavored as Behemoths, here they'd be flavored as super heroes/villains/monsters.
What I'm looking for here is a way to differentiate supers from non supers. In this set, if a 1/1 with flying is considered super, it's hard to make any card not feel super. If we set a hard line at 4 power, it means we can not only make a bigger distinction mechanically, but also flavorfully.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
The power threshold thing also helps show the different between the everyday common heroes and the bigger heroes. Maybe the Drumhunter like cards could be our sidekicks cards?
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Right Moon-E, but what's wrong with making some 2/2 "minor" super heroes/villains/vigilantes etc etc? Unless we are going for a "grim" world (which I don't want to), then I think we could have some lower power heroes. Players will get there are different "tiers" of heroes, just as there are in Marvel, DC etc.
We can have those drum hunter cards to trigger with big heroes, but I think that fans of red/white and weenie decks will feel left out if they don't get to play heroes/villains. If the set is heroes and villains, then we don't want I leave them out of any color combination.
Which is why we have power boosting effects, +1/+1 counters and equipment themes. Plus red/white has lots of ways to pump weenie, with attacking boosts, frebreathing, creatures getting +1/+1 for each other creature ect.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I always expected the equipment theme to be heaviest in red and white, so they'd still have small creatures with the potential to get big.
My main thing is that we're creating a power threshold to make those creatures feel special. That comes across so much better if those creatures actually are special. If any french vanilla dork can be a super hero than the line feels arbitrary (note that this is a shift in philosophy from my earlier ideas.)
Don't get me wrong, we can have smaller super heroes at higher rarities, especially legends. I don't think every single hero in the set needs to be a 4/x or larger. However, I think at common, and maybe uncommon too, it'd be a mistake to make a whole bunch of "small" heroes to devalue the "super" feel. I mean, it's not like we're hurting for small creatures. We have non-supers that use equipment, mutants that start small and then get big, and all the non-super civilian types as well. I don't really see this as restrictive, just a distinction to reinforce flavor for limited.
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I am fine as long as we put some of those on heroes/villains. Every color should have access to heroes/villains, and each color should have effective ways to use them.
If I am a red/white player, and you are telling me that I have to either. A) play with a bunch of humans and non-super characters or b) someone how make my deck midrange, I will have many feel-bads.
I'm not saying we should require players to have heroes (an anti-hero red/white deck sounds pretty awesome), but I think each color should get some token heroes at various CMCs. They don't have to be constructed playable but they should be there.
To be fair, not every set wants to have every color combo play the same. I for one am getting pretty tired of the same RW weenie deck in every limited format. A neat twist that focuses on suiting my weenies up with equipment sounds a least a bit more interesting. (Also, remember that the equipment theme is playing on tropes of non-powered heroes like Batman or Ironman. Are you telling me you don't want to have a deck full of Batman?)
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I'm also in favor of red and white with an equipment subtheme, like we've seen in the Mirrodin blocks (and with white's Kor on Zendikar). Gadgets and utility belts are always cool, and we could also play up different types of equipment users - Archer heroes versus melee types.
I always expected the equipment theme to be heaviest in red and white, so they'd still have small creatures with the potential to get big.
We are on the same-wave length there.
Just to keep an idea on color blanceing does this look right?
+1/+1 mutant mechanic focused in GU
Equipment matters focused in RW
Monster mechanic focused in RG
Which means traps will be focused in UB and leaves us a WB mechanic
I am fine as long as we put some of those on heroes/villains. Every color should have access to heroes/villains, and each color should have effective ways to use them.
We already agreed on trying to put all themes in all colors (if it works) but forces them in two colors in the vain of Theros. So even though RW will get the better equipment matters card each colors will get it. (as well as all colors having heroes and villains)
Quick question do we want to make a mechanic for the equipment matter cards or just have "As long as ~ is equpt it has -effect-"
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
To be fair, not every set wants to have every color combo play the same. I for one am getting pretty tired of the same RW weenie deck in every limited format. A neat twist that focuses on suiting my weenies up with equipment sounds a least a bit more interesting. (Also, remember that the equipment theme is playing on tropes of non-powered heroes like Batman or Ironman. Are you telling me you don't want to have a deck full of Batman?)
That would rock, but Batman is still a "superhero", if you catch my drift. I just don't want a deck full of "generic cop".
@5color: That was my original plan, but it can totally change. For instace, if we end up using monstrous for both mutants and monsters, we have extra space for another mechanic.
As for the equipment mechanic, I think it needs a named mechanic. It can either be an ability worded "if equipped then bonus" or something brand new.
EDIT: @LnGrrrR: Here's what I'm talking about.
Dudebro1W
Creature - Dude (C)
2/2
Batbro2W
Creature - Bat (C)
As long as ~ is equipped, it gets +2/+2.
2/2
Superbro3WW
Creature - "Totally not a human" (C)
4/4
The first is a normal guy. He can be super if he finds a lot of help, but he's mostly normal.
The second is like batman. He's normal but has more potential to be super than the average joe. Just one gadget and he's past the threshold.
The third is like super man, he's just naturally super.
Anyone in the second or third category (is either naturally super or has a way to become super written on them) can be flavored as a super hero. Everyone else should be flavored as a normal person.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Mutants would be in the second category: they can start out small, but then they mutate (with some mechanic, evolve or monstrous or something else) to be big. So they too can be flavored as super heroes. You see what I mean by there being a lot of ways to make small creatures and still keep the threshold flavor? Basically what I want to avoid is this:
Super guy1W
Creature - Awesome (C)
Flying
1/1
This guy has no way of becoming a 4/X that's apparent. If we're making a big deal about power 4, it feels weird to say that this guy is also "super." Drumhunter can actually become a 5/x himself with something as simple as a Lightning Talons, but it would be weird to flavor him as a "behemoth".
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It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
We already (maybe) have a spell mechanic with Traps...
My big thing bout making named mechanic for equipment is whats really gonna make the difference our cards and cards like Kitesail Apprentice?
I'm in for giving both Mutants and Monsters Monstrous, since (for mutants) it is very flavorfully (normal guy going along his day when suddenly he gains super powers and gets stronger).
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I don think the equipped thing has to be a keyword. It can be like the blue "exile creatures from graveyards" mechanic from ISD.
Moon-E, I guess I am not getting it. It's not like we are using a "super" subtype. You yourself brought up an idea of controlling a R/W army full of humans tha equip up like Batman.
But you also seem to be saying these humans aren't "super", though most people would call Batman a "super"hero. I don't see any problem with making
Tornado Man2U
Creature - Human (C)
Flying
2/2
Now, no one is going to think this guy is even in the same tier as THIS guy
Supraman4WWW
Creature - Human (R)
Flying, indestructible
When Supraman enters the battlefield, you may destroy target non-white creature. It's my job to keep this city safe.
5/5
Are both if these guys "super" heroes? Kinda, but they are on two completely different levels. We can flavor the tornado guy is just a normal person with a jetpack or something similar.
Another idea of a "weenie" super hero and/or villain.
Taurusoar2R
Creature - Minotaur (U)
When Taurusoar enters the battlefield, destroy target artifact. If you do, it's controller loses 2 life.
3/1
Sure, we could make these "cultist" or "henchmen" or "policeman" or whatever, but even if this is a small set, I tint want to flood it with too many "generic guy" creatures.
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Do we want to do a "mutants enter the battlefield as a superhero" thing, or do we want to have them enter as a "normal" person and then "power-up"?
I prefer the former, but the latter might be easier.
For instance, we could do the latter as a riff on monstrous.
Wolverine 2RR
Creature - Human (R)
1R Mutation - First Strike (This creature gains First Strike.)
R Mutation - Haste (this creature gains haste.)
4/2
To make things less confusing, you could combine them like
RRR Mutation - First Strike, Haste (This creature gains First Strike and Haste.)
Yes, there could be memory issues, but with all the stuff Magic can make you track I think players would be able to handle it. I think "gaining abilities" fits much more with mutations than just getting counters.
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Steelskin Crasher 2RR
Creature -- Mutant Barbarian
1R: Mutation 2 (Put a mutation counter on ~. Activate only if there are fewer than two mutation counters on ~. Activate only once per turn.)
~ gets +X/+X, haste and "Whenever this creature deals damage to a player, you may have it deal damage equal to its' power to target creature.", where X is the number of mutation counters on ~.
2/2
I'm super glad you brought this up, because I was just about to suggest the same thing. I think what this set needs is some way of distinguishing "supers". One of my ideas was a power threshold similar to Naya's "power 5". It seems like a perfect fit; natural born heroes can just be big to begin with, mutants can grow to hit the threshold, and other creatures can strap on equipment to boost themselves up. I really dig this idea.
While the name is a little weird (it'd be great to have them become mutants after activation), monstrous does fit quite nicely. (Plus, it can run double duty for both mutants and monsters.) I dismissed this earlier because the flavor is awkward, but I could definitely reconsider.
I think the solution is just to strike different chords in different places. Like, maybe a RW hero deck is aggressive but a WU hero deck is reactive. Maybe a UB villain deck is super grindy but a BR villain deck is proactive. I agree there's tension, but I also think we can manage it all.
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I like this idea it can also help separate the small common everyday heroes from bigger heroes
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Maybe in size:
Monsters: generally huge creatures, kaiju, etc.
Mutants: start relatively powerful and are able to grow.
Humans: use a lot of artifacts and enchantments to get up to 'fighting size'
Also I really like the idea of doing some MILL as massive collateral damage. In other words some Blue, Black and a couple of Black/Blue or black/red villains that 'endanger the city'. Also Mill tends to be relatively cheap, so you can force the heroes to spend a ton of effort on stopping the death and destruction that your artifacts, spells and creatures are creating. These tend to be Batman Villain types, the serial killer, the mad bomber, the eco terrorist, the crazed cultist.
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I suggest a semi-monstrous for mutants, as that will enable us to smooth out curves. The same goes for "tech based" heroes, who can be at lower power levels but increase greatly with artifacts/equipment. (Super genius types.)
Then we have the Supermen type, who will be at higher CMCs, as well as big monsters.
I think villains should be, on average, at least 1 CMC higher than heroes.
At the lower levels, we can have civilian type forces, police, thieves, crooks, criminals etc etc.
And even though we are looking at a power level threshold, we should have some low powered heroes and villains also.
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I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I think that in general it'd be nice for the villains to have a number of alternate win conditions (mill and others) to give them the feel of some dastardly plan.
I think for the power threshold to work, anyone who's super has to surpass it. Of course, there are plenty of people who don't meet that requirement: Law enforcement, side kicks, pre-equipment heroes, evil henchmen, non-super villains, civilians, etc. However, I think anyone who is supposed to be super needs to pass the threshold or have the potential to pass it alone (i.e. mutants).
Also, while we're on the topic, what's the number we're looking at? I think 4 is a good place; it feels big enough to be special but not as big as Naya's 5.
The fact that Monstrosity got dropped after one set makes me feel less bad about bringing it back so "soon".
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When I am talking about heroes/villains, I mean French vanillas. Maybe a tough guy with trample, a guy with wings having only flying, etc etc. I think we can have a range of heroes and villains, while still noting a distinct power level.
(For instance, DC has Booster Gold, Batman and Superman. Batman and Superman are considered to be a lot more equal than Booster Gold. In the same vein, Marvel has Spider-Man, Hulk and Blade. Spider-Man can use his intelligence to try going up against Hulk, but Blade has no chance against either.)
I certainly think we can have heroes that aren't 4 power or more. Some heroes use intelligence, powers, etc etc. it would stink if all out "supers" had to be able to lift cars over their head.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
When I'm talking about a power threshold mechanic I'm talking about doing it as a theme, like in Naya. Cards like Drumhunter, Mighty Emergence, and Mycoid Shepard, removal that only hits cards of a certain power, etc. In Naya they were flavored as Behemoths, here they'd be flavored as super heroes/villains/monsters.
What I'm looking for here is a way to differentiate supers from non supers. In this set, if a 1/1 with flying is considered super, it's hard to make any card not feel super. If we set a hard line at 4 power, it means we can not only make a bigger distinction mechanically, but also flavorfully.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
We can have those drum hunter cards to trigger with big heroes, but I think that fans of red/white and weenie decks will feel left out if they don't get to play heroes/villains. If the set is heroes and villains, then we don't want I leave them out of any color combination.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
My main thing is that we're creating a power threshold to make those creatures feel special. That comes across so much better if those creatures actually are special. If any french vanilla dork can be a super hero than the line feels arbitrary (note that this is a shift in philosophy from my earlier ideas.)
Don't get me wrong, we can have smaller super heroes at higher rarities, especially legends. I don't think every single hero in the set needs to be a 4/x or larger. However, I think at common, and maybe uncommon too, it'd be a mistake to make a whole bunch of "small" heroes to devalue the "super" feel. I mean, it's not like we're hurting for small creatures. We have non-supers that use equipment, mutants that start small and then get big, and all the non-super civilian types as well. I don't really see this as restrictive, just a distinction to reinforce flavor for limited.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
If I am a red/white player, and you are telling me that I have to either. A) play with a bunch of humans and non-super characters or b) someone how make my deck midrange, I will have many feel-bads.
I'm not saying we should require players to have heroes (an anti-hero red/white deck sounds pretty awesome), but I think each color should get some token heroes at various CMCs. They don't have to be constructed playable but they should be there.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
We are on the same-wave length there.
Just to keep an idea on color blanceing does this look right?
+1/+1 mutant mechanic focused in GU
Equipment matters focused in RW
Monster mechanic focused in RG
Which means traps will be focused in UB and leaves us a WB mechanic
We already agreed on trying to put all themes in all colors (if it works) but forces them in two colors in the vain of Theros. So even though RW will get the better equipment matters card each colors will get it. (as well as all colors having heroes and villains)
Quick question do we want to make a mechanic for the equipment matter cards or just have "As long as ~ is equpt it has -effect-"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
That would rock, but Batman is still a "superhero", if you catch my drift. I just don't want a deck full of "generic cop".
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
As for the equipment mechanic, I think it needs a named mechanic. It can either be an ability worded "if equipped then bonus" or something brand new.
EDIT: @LnGrrrR: Here's what I'm talking about.
Dudebro 1W
Creature - Dude (C)
2/2
Batbro 2W
Creature - Bat (C)
As long as ~ is equipped, it gets +2/+2.
2/2
Superbro 3WW
Creature - "Totally not a human" (C)
4/4
The first is a normal guy. He can be super if he finds a lot of help, but he's mostly normal.
The second is like batman. He's normal but has more potential to be super than the average joe. Just one gadget and he's past the threshold.
The third is like super man, he's just naturally super.
Anyone in the second or third category (is either naturally super or has a way to become super written on them) can be flavored as a super hero. Everyone else should be flavored as a normal person.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Super guy 1W
Creature - Awesome (C)
Flying
1/1
This guy has no way of becoming a 4/X that's apparent. If we're making a big deal about power 4, it feels weird to say that this guy is also "super." Drumhunter can actually become a 5/x himself with something as simple as a Lightning Talons, but it would be weird to flavor him as a "behemoth".
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
My big thing bout making named mechanic for equipment is whats really gonna make the difference our cards and cards like Kitesail Apprentice?
I'm in for giving both Mutants and Monsters Monstrous, since (for mutants) it is very flavorfully (normal guy going along his day when suddenly he gains super powers and gets stronger).
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Moon-E, I guess I am not getting it. It's not like we are using a "super" subtype. You yourself brought up an idea of controlling a R/W army full of humans tha equip up like Batman.
But you also seem to be saying these humans aren't "super", though most people would call Batman a "super"hero. I don't see any problem with making
Tornado Man 2U
Creature - Human (C)
Flying
2/2
Now, no one is going to think this guy is even in the same tier as THIS guy
Supraman 4WWW
Creature - Human (R)
Flying, indestructible
When Supraman enters the battlefield, you may destroy target non-white creature.
It's my job to keep this city safe.
5/5
Are both if these guys "super" heroes? Kinda, but they are on two completely different levels. We can flavor the tornado guy is just a normal person with a jetpack or something similar.
Another idea of a "weenie" super hero and/or villain.
Taurusoar 2R
Creature - Minotaur (U)
When Taurusoar enters the battlefield, destroy target artifact. If you do, it's controller loses 2 life.
3/1
Sure, we could make these "cultist" or "henchmen" or "policeman" or whatever, but even if this is a small set, I tint want to flood it with too many "generic guy" creatures.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!