I think his problem is with constructed where only the first one is dead while the other three are straight up exiles with no drawback.
Personally, I would love to just ignore constructed and leave it as is, but i can see why someone would be wary of such a card.
EDIT: Actually I think i'll test this myself. I'll put 4 copies of warning in one of my constructed decks and test it with my friends. I have a feeling that the single dead copy will actually be a large detrement, but I'll go ahead and test it so we can see how bad it would be in constructed.
I'm fairly confident that it's fine but testing it like that probably wouldn't hurt.
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Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
The World of Pokemon RPG has been rebooted. Come over and check it out.
UB03- Corporate Elite. I just got the synergy, and I feel dumb, and even though I like gunner, this is really something.
UB07- l00ke00's version of Hymnal Box.
I'll throw in my thoughts on why Cull and Spoil is a sweet card, and destroys a Harrowing Journey in the face.
1) It feels vampiric. Black is known for boosting itself by hurting others, often with cards like Sorin's Thirst. This exact type of design has never been done before, but it feels like those cards.
2) It has huge possible uses and interactions, which is not very common in these vampiric cards. Imagine the cuteness with a meekstone. Imagine the destruction with a Precursor Golem.
3) It hearkens back to Seeds of Strength with it's text. Everyone liked that card.
4) Timmy- big explosive spell to blow out the game! Everyone's gonna gasp when I wreck Ed's saproling deck and swing in with my Sister's of Stone Death!
5) Johnny- I'm totally combining this with Cytoplast Manipulator, the CA is gonna rock. Maybe I'll take that Sisters of Stone Death Timmy keeps playing and then hissing before chuckling like a n00b.
6) Spike- my control deck needs something to beat that white aggro... Hello Top 8...
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Modern WSoul SistersW
Commander WIsperia the InscrutableU WGaddock TeegG UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Seeds of Strength? That's rated ~3.3 on gatherer. I don't think that being rated slightly above the median implies that "everyone liked it." (Harrowing Journey is 2.9, btw. However, this card is an Instant, and can be cast for either BBB, 2BB, or 4B, all of which are better than journey. It's also silly to discount the instant speed, Concentrate is rated lower than Jace's Ingenuity, despite costing less.)
Interacts poorly with Precursor Golem, who only cares about spells that target a single creature. Each golem could get 3 +1/+1 counters, and -3/-3 until end of turn. Not exactly "destructive." Similarly, the interaction with Meekstone is uninteresting. Unless you want make your opponent's creatures bigger to lock them with meekstone. Even then, there are better ways to do this.
Points against this: ~6 lines of text makes it incredibly wordy, for such a simple effect; Has the potential to be a complete blowout, given the proper setup. This causes it to be very swingy; Because it's so swingy and can cause such huge blowouts, it's unfun to play against. It causes ugh.-really?-of-course-you'd-have-that games, which are very frustrating, especially in limited.
the humanity, which version of corporate elite are you talking about?
Cue rebuttal!
1) Simplicity. As avid magic players, we often forget how complex things can be. On top of that, the fact we're all very familiar with archester means that mechanics don't surprise us any more. We have to take into account that a triple hybrid card can still be really confusing. While you may understand it conceptually, grasping the fact you can cast it for all sorts of different costs can be confusing during an actual game. This is the reason I liked the other three members of this cycle; they're simple effects that the color is known for. Players see them and instantly understand what they do, so they don't have to be baffled by both the effect and cost of the card.
Even for more experienced players, the fact the effect on the card is a known quantity is a big deal. It's incredibly hard to judge how powerful a triple hybrid card is. Hell, even WotC kinda messed up the first time with Spectral Procession being insane. Having an effect players can connect to a card they already know helps them to analyze and judge it's power level.
2) Elegance. One of my main gripes with Cull and Spoil is that it's wording is so awkward. I hated Seeds of Strength for this very reason. Yes, i understand why it needs to be worded like that, but that didn't excuse it in my mind for being so clunky. The rest of the cycle is simple an elegant, this card is not.
3) Removal. I feel like right now there's a lot of removal in black, including the suggested uncommons. While black is the removal color, adding even more removal to black just makes it seem stale; black can do things other than kill.
4) Reloading. What's the main problem with discarding cards as a mechanic? Well... you run out of cards. In limited this would be a great way to refill your hand after you've run out of cards.
/end rebuttal
Hymnal box confuses me. I don't really know why it's here or what it's trying to do. It seems more like a rare than an uncommon IMO.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
All valid points, though Cull And Spoil is a sorcery.
Cull and Spoil however, is not just removal. it does far more. It ends attrition wars. It's a finisher that makes for a crazy story. It's the card that plays like that time you first realized how good Psychatog was, or that time you accidently went infinite in EDH.
It has never been done before though- we could alter it to be less odd, replace the counters with a simple giant growth effect. Less prone to being broken.
Pro C&Sers, back a Timmy up!
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Modern WSoul SistersW
Commander WIsperia the InscrutableU WGaddock TeegG UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
TBH this card doesn't really excite me all that much. I don't see how this is a "timmy" card. If anything this seems very much like a spike card. It has major card advantage (spike likes), it's versatile removal (spike likes) and it has a lot of value (spike likes). Why would timmy play this when he could just play Massacre Wurm?
I just don't really see these super exciting scenarios you're talking about. This card can obviously steal games by killing off something important and powering up a valuable creature, but i don't see the "timmy" in that. A timmy likes it when he connects with a spirit token to flip his Elbrus. This is more akin to winning with Infest...
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Timmy plays with cards that make him happy; cards that create cool moments; cards that make him laugh; cards that allow him to hang with his friends; cards that cause him to have fun.
Now I may be weird. I play EDH games where I lose but I call it a win because I drop 50 cards in one turn to take out the guy who dropped a curse on me... and start busting up when he topdecks Austere Command, destroying everything I just played and keeping his curse. This feels like that kind of topdeck.
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Modern WSoul SistersW
Commander WIsperia the InscrutableU WGaddock TeegG UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
The point of the matter is that this does not create "cool" moments. Imo there's nothing very "exciting" about this card. It kills things and makes your dudes bigger. It reminds me a lot of Skinrender. It's a value card.
IMO, even something like Infest or Damnnation is a better timmy card. You just get to kill everything and laugh maniacally. This card gives you card advantage and marginal value. This is not the kind of thing timmy is into. You might like it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the Timmy part of you that does. (BTW, if playing with spike cards makes me happy, am I a timmy? Not really... Timmy doesn't always have to play with fatties, but he much prefers bigger, splashier, and more awesome effects than this.)
I won't argue the fact that this card is more timmy than Dividends, but i don't see the main appeal of this card being to timmy.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
When I was counting the votes I did something a little different this time. Instead of counting each card that was in a particular spot, I counted how many times that card was voted for regardless of where it was placed. This way we can see just how many people like a card and not just how many people like the card in a particular spot.
Total Voters To-Date: 8
Necrotech Prodigies has 50% of the votes.
Desert Gearbones 2.0 has 75% of the votes.
Steam Fiend has 62.5% of the votes.
Scrapyard Surveyor has 62.5% of the votes.
Snake Oil Salesman has 62.5% of the votes.
Cheating at Cards has 50% of the votes.
Cull and Spoil has 50% of the votes.
Demonic Dividends has 50% of the votes.
Edit:More things to Note...
Every card that got at least one vote is listed
When a person said "___ or ___" for a particular spot, I put a vote down for both, because I was unsure of which they would really prefer.
I only listed cards with 50% or more votes in the "things to note" section...
UB01 – Creature, Splinter Macabre Taxidermist :2mana::symb::symb:* Creature - Human Artificer
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may put target creature card from your graveyard onto the battlefield. That creature an artifact in addition to it's other types.
2/2 Votes: 1/8
Necrotech Prodigies :3mana::symb:**** four dead men lay before a shovel wielding young blue collar man. There is a cart behind him, with a high class young woman pulling it. Focus: The look of love on their faces Creature- Human Artificer
Whenever you sacrifice a nontoken permanent, put a 1/1 black zombie token onto the battlefield. Their lust for knowledge is as forbidden as their love.
2/2 Votes: 4/8
Clock Hunter :2mana::symb::symb:*
Creature - Human Rogue
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may destroy target creature. If you do, put all counters from that creature on ~. "The elves see a marvel of nature. I see cogs ripe for the taking."
1/1 Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB02 – (Artifact) Creature, Splinter, Desert Gearbones 2.0 :1mana::sym2b:****** Artifact Creature - Skeleton Construct [Uncommon]
:sym2b:: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/1 Votes: 6/8
Hostile Worker :sym2b:* Artifact Creature - Assembly-Worker
Intimidate Steam-powered-When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a creature unless only colorless mana was spent to cast ~. "They may be a bit messy but they're quite good for taking out rebellious workers" -Manufactory owner
3/3 Votes: 1/8
Spring Scavenger :sym2b::sym2b:** Artifact Creature - Zombie Construct
Whenever another artifact creature dies, put a +1/+1 counter on ~. A twisted mockery of clockwork beasts, it lurks in the marshes waiting for their cogs to fail.
2/1 Votes: 2/8
==============================
UB03 – Creature, Group Corporate Elite :symb::symb:**
Creature - Human Advisor (U)
Intimidate
Protection from white In the Iron City, one learns quickly that the laws to not apply to everyone.
2/2 Votes: 2/8
Cruel Gunner :1mana::symb::symb:* A weathered looking woman specks of red on his jacket stands in a dark Iron City alleyway at night over a body, holding an ingenious steam gun. Focus: the smirk peering out from under the brim of her hat. Creature - Human Warrior
First Strike, Deathtouch, Lifelink
2/1 Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB04 – (Artifact) Creature, Group, Corporate Elite 2.0 :symb::symb:*** Creature - Human Advisor [Uncommon]
Intimidate (2/B): Becomes the color of your choice until end of turn. In the Iron City, one learns quickly that the laws do not apply to everyone.
2/1 Votes: 3/8
Steamdealer 2.0 :2mana::symb::symb:* Creature - Human Advisor Shaman [Uncommon]
At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you lose 1 life and add 2 to your mana pool.
2/2 Votes: 1/8
Francium Carrier :2mana::symb:** A laughing crazy man runs into a busy street carrying a strange rock towards a fountain. Focus: the rock Creature- Human
When Francium Carrier dies, all creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. Just a touch of water.
1/1 Votes: 2/8
[Insert Awesome Name] :3mana::sym2b::sym2b:* Artifact Creature - Horror Construct [Uncommon]
When ~ enters the battlefield, you draw two cards and you lose 4 life. When in the Iron City always remember the old axiom, "Let the buyer beware."
4/4 Votes: 1/8
Steam Fiend :1mana::sym2b:***** Artifact Creature - Horror (U)
Flying
Whenever you cast a spell or activate an ability with only colorless mana, ~ gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
1/1 Votes: 5/8
==============================
UB05 – Creature, Group Hitmen :4mana::symb:** Creature - Human Assassin (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target creature. "There are two kinds of people in my world: the ones that get the job done, and their targets." --Tecksa Rend, defacto gangleader of the Mavericks
2/2 Votes: 2/8
Coldheart Extortionist :symb:* A man carries a traveler's bag out of a house. There are bloodstains on the windows. Focus: the bag. Creature- Human Rogue
Whenever a player sacrifices a creature, you may pay 1. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Coldheart Extortionist. "Your mother died? How tragic..."
0/1 Votes: 1/8
Carrion Vultures :1mana::symb:* Creature - Bird [Uncommon]
Flying
Sacrifice a creature: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
1/1 Votes: 1/8
Scrapyard Surveyor :3mana::symb:***** Creature - Bird Rogue (U)
Flying
Whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
2/1 Votes: 5/8
==============================
UB06 – Creature, Group
Maverick Overseer 2.0 :3mana::symb::symb:* Creature-Human Spellslinger T, Discard a card: Untap target Spellslinger. If an artifact card was discarded, untap each other Spellslinger you control.
2/2 Votes: 1/8
Snake Oil Salesman :symb:***** Creature - Human Spellslinger B, :symtap:, Discard a card: Each opponent discards a card. If you discarded an artifact card this way, each opponent loses life equal to the converted mana cost of the card he or she discarded. Activate this ability only at any time you could cast a sorcery. Those who purchase rainwater as pricey "medicine" are the lucky ones.
1/1 Votes: 5/8
Maverick Enforcer :1mana::symb::symb:* In the foreground the back of a man in a long black overcoat and cowboy hat, past him we say an emaciated cowboy with purple or black smoke rising from him. Creature - Human Spellslinger
:symb:, :symtap:, Discard a card: Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn. If an artifact was discarded this way gain 2 life.
2/2 Votes: 1/8
Frontier Mentalist :1mana::symb::symb:* Creature - Human Spellslinger [Uncommon]
:2mana::symb::symb:, , Discard a card: Target opponent discards a card. If you discarded an artifact card to activate this ability, that opponent discards two cards instead. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
2/2 Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB07 – Enchantment OR Sorcery OR Instant,
Reconstruct the Corpse II :sym2b::sym2b:* Sorcery
Return up to one target artifact creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield under your control. It gains haste. Exile it at the end of turn. Steam-powered -- If only colorless mana was spent to cast ~, return target creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield instead. It gains haste. Exile it at the end of turn. Votes: 1/8
Brawl in the Boiler Room :2mana::sym2b:** Sorcery [Uncommon]
Target creature fights another target creature. The controller of each creature that survives that fight may have target player of his or her choice discard a card. (2/B): Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn. Any player may activate this ability, but only while ~ is on the stack. Votes: 2/8
Hymnal Box II :sym2b::sym2b:** a dark rusty music box is open on a shelf of trinkets. The figure is a perfectly made representation of an elvish dancer in ebony. Artifact Steam Powered- if only colorless mana was spent to cast Hymnal Box, it enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it.
At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent may pay :2mana:. Otherwise he discards 2 cards, then you draw a card for each charge counter on Hymnal Box and sacrifice Hymnal Box. The song is beautiful but the meaning painful. Votes: 2/8
Corrosive Steam :1mana::sym2b::sym2b:** Instant [Uncommon]
Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn. Votes: 2/8
Necrotechnic Lunge :xmana::sym2b:* Sorcery [Uncommon]
Return target creature card with converted mana cost X from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. Steampowered -- If only colorless mana was used to cast ~, don't exile that creature at the beginning of the next end step. Votes: 1/8
Zombfog :1mana::sym2b::sym2b:* Instant
Target player sacrifices a nonartifact creature. Steam Powered -- If only colorless mana was spent to cast ~, return that creature to the battlefield under your control. Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB08 – Enchantment OR Sorcery OR Instant
Backroom Dealings :2mana::symb:**
Enchantment
Whenever you discard a card, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life. Votes: 2/8
"Accidental" Oil Spill :3mana::symb::symb:* Sorcery
Destroy target non-basic land, that lands controller discards a card for each land card in their graveyard. "Of course, the Council will make sure you're compensated in full for ALL your losses." - Andony Carnigig Votes: 1/8
Cheating at Cards :2mana::symb:**** A hand holding 5 poker cards, all of them Aces. Sorcery
Until end of turn, whenever you discard a card due to a creature's ability you may exile it instead. At end of turn return all cards exiled this way to your hand. Votes: 4/8
Three-card Monty :symb:* Sorcery (U)
Target opponent chooses two cards in his or her hand, then reveals the rest. You choose a nonland card from it. That player discards one of the chosen cards at random. Votes: 1/8
Three-card Monty II :symb:*
Sorcery
Target opponent reveals his or hand. You choose three nonland cards from it. That player discards one of those cards at random. Votes: 1/8
Robber Baron's Bargin :2mana::symb:* Instant [Uncommon]
When you cast ~, any player may sacrifice two lands. If a player does, counter ~.
Target player sacrifices a creature. Let's make a deal... --Andony Carnigig, the "Robber" Baron Votes: 1/8
Polluted Rain :symb:* Instant [Uncommon]
Until end of turn, lands you control gain "Sacrifice this land: Add to your mana pool." "When I say it rained, it was not small drops, but a thick, greasy drool pouring from the heavens." - Terent Livinton, Ex-Flats farmer, journal Votes: 1/8
Ace in the Hole :2mana::symb:*** Sorcery
Discard a card. Search your library for a card of the same color and put it into your hand. "A little sleight of hand is all it takes..." Votes: 3/8
Corpse Disposal :1mana::symb:* (Art: One "made man" dumps a suspicious body bag into a vat of acid as two others look around nonchalantly.) Instant (U)
Until end of turn, if a card would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead.
Draw a card. You don't need to be subtle if you know how to hide the evidence. Votes: 1/8
Manufactory Explosion :2mana::symb:* Instant [Uncommon]
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice a land.
~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you lose 2 life. You might be surprised just how far blame can be thrown. Votes: 1/8
Smogfire Deluxe Edition :symb::symb:* Sorcery
Each player loses 2 life. Target player loses 2 additional life unless he sacrifices a permanent. Votes: 1/8
Burning Fields :1mana::symb:*
Instant
~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of land cards in all graveyards. Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB09 – Sorcery OR Instant, :sym2b:, (Cycle)
Cull and Spoil :sym2b::sym2b::sym2b:**** Sorcery
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Put three +1/+1 counters divided as you choose among any number of target creatures. Votes: 4/8
Demonic Dividends :sym2b::sym2b::sym2b:**** Instant
Target player draws 3 cards and loses 3 life. Archester has no demons, so the business of brokering twisted deals fell to beings even more ruthless and less sympathetic. Votes: 4/8
Against Necrotech Prodigies - Black doesn't have a sacrifice theme. If anything i thought that red green was going to have more sacrifice effects. The seemingly large number of them must just be a side effect of black's land theme. This card just feels very out of place to me. The point is supposed to be the lands, not the fact you're sacrificing them.
Against Corporate Elite 2.0 - As was mentioned earlier in this thread, intimidate doesn't really go too well in this set. This is a reversal on my original opinion. After playing with it, intimidate just feels bad. Corporate Elite 2.0 is a cool card, but i don't like having a cool card be ruined by a format designed to beat it.
For Corrupted Machinery - Black usually gets at least one of these big creatures. This card has a lot of our set mechanics put together in a pretty elegant way, and fills a role that's currently empty.
Against Cheating at Cards - This should be rare IMO. Not this card specifically, but an effect like this (preferably as an enchantment). This is partially because i'd rather have a cool rare than an ok uncommon, and partially because there are better cards for uncommon IMO. Some cards I can't see as a rare, but this one I can, so i think it should be moved there.
Against Ace in the Hole - How does this interact with colorless cards? Anyway, I don't really like this card. It's card disadvantage in a color that's already got a lot of discarding effects. This could also make a good rare with some tweaks.
For Burning Fields - IMO, this is the card that we should be making, not a "sacrifice" card. This card takes advantage of both black's land sacrifice theme and black's discard theme. Not to mention it's potentially modern playable with a wide host of fetch lands.
For Corrosive Steam - Sometimes you have to go simple. I just love how this card is almost better when you're not playing black, as it acts like a 5cc removal spell for every color.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Against Macabre Taxidermist: turn 4 uberfattie. That's Blazing Archon, Iona, the new Avacyn, and worst of all... Grozoth.
Turn 3 with ramp and a self aimed discard first round.
Please, Modern Grozoth will break the game. Make this bad boy cost 5.
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Modern WSoul SistersW
Commander WIsperia the InscrutableU WGaddock TeegG UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
That's a lot of cards to vote for... I guess I better get to work...
Slot 1, Creature:
Voting for Macabre Taxidermist: The idea of a person brought back to life as a mechanical puppet is awesome in my eyes. I don't really get the flavor behind the other zombie card, and it should make 2/2 zombies to play nicely with other zombie tokens.
Slot 2, Creature:
Voting for Desert Gearbones: I have a few reservations about this card. Why not just do a semi-functional reprint of the usual "Spend X mana, if this is in your graveyard, put this creature onto the battlefield tapped" ability? I'm just not seeing the flavor of returning it to hand. Are people scrapping the skeleton for spare parts to make more skeletons?
Slot 3, Creature:
Voting for Cruel Gunner:... with the caveat that I don't think it should have lifelink, it should be a 1/1, and it should cost at least 4 mana (2BB preferably). There's only three cards with first strike and deathtouch... Cairn Wanderer (which costs 5 and requires a deathtoucher and first striker in the gy), Glissa the Traitor (which is dual color mythic), and Nirkana Cutthroat, which you have to spend a total of 12 mana on before it unlocks deathtouch/first strike. Still, I think there's room for a 1/1 dt/first striker.
Slot 4: Creature
Voting for Corrupted Machinery: Solid body, regen, land destruction theme. Hits all the boxes.
Slot 5: Creature
Voting for Hitmen: Simple, fits the flavor. While Scrapyard Surveyor is a nice card, I think WotC has tried to move away from "artifacts matter" cards in black (maybe they're still feeling burn from disciple of the vault). Also, while I expect a greater than average amount of artifacts in this block, I don't think this has to be the New Mirrodin.
Slot 6: Creature
Voting for Maverick Enforcer: We likely can't have both Hitmen and this in the same set, as it would make B stacked on removal, but I like the flavor of draining the life out of someone.
Slot 7: Instant/Sorcery/Enchantment
Voting for Ace in the Hole: Total homer pick here, but I think it's thematic, and it plays into black (tutoring) and red (discard a card to get a new card) mechanics. It's not too backbreaking of a drawback, but it will probably come up right when you don't need it to. And heck, you can always throw away a land to find an artifact.
Slot 8: Instant/Sorcery/Enchantment
Voting for Robber Baron's Bargain: I know, I just talked about too much removal up there. But still, fun awesome card. Only change is that I'd make it one land... I doubt many people would be willing to trade 2 lands. More of a development than design thing though.
Slot 9: Cycle
Voting for... neither. No offense, but I like my cycles to be inspired, and these feel more functional/mechanical than top-down.
Honorable Mentions:
Corpse Disposal - I like it, but I feel it's somewhat limited. What about an enchantment?
Three card monty II - Fun and cheeky card.
Coldheart Extortionist - I feel the flavor/mechanics don't quite match, but I LOVE the flavor.
Either of the above two changes i would find appropriate.
I'm fine with weakening the card. Making it cost 5, and possibly changing it's p/t to 1/2 ala Bitterheart Witch, or even 1/1. Let's face it, it's a sorcery (Unburial Rites w/out the flashback) on a body.
I'd also be fine with changing it to an ability, a la Havengul Runebinder except reanimating, and then putting some severe restrictions on the PT allowed to reanimate, or placing a penalty on the reanimated creature. (Can't block, can't attack, can't untap, etc etc)
Against Corporate Elite 2.0 - As was mentioned earlier in this thread, intimidate doesn't really go too well in this set. This is a reversal on my original opinion. After playing with it, intimidate just feels bad. Corporate Elite 2.0 is a cool card, but i don't like having a cool card be ruined by a format designed to beat it.
Against Cheating at Cards - This should be rare IMO. Not this card specifically, but an effect like this (preferably as an enchantment). This is partially because i'd rather have a cool rare than an ok uncommon, and partially because there are better cards for uncommon IMO. Some cards I can't see as a rare, but this one I can, so i think it should be moved there.
Against Ace in the Hole - How does this interact with colorless cards? Anyway, I don't really like this card. It's card disadvantage in a color that's already got a lot of discarding effects. This could also make a good rare with some tweaks.
If there's no color, then you could search for a card with no color. Might have to spell that out on the card though. We could drop the price of the card to BB as suggested. And it would provide a target discard for Reanimator cards.
For Burning Fields - IMO, this is the card that we should be making, not a "sacrifice" card. This card takes advantage of both black's land sacrifice theme and black's discard theme. Not to mention it's potentially modern playable with a wide host of fetch lands.
Good points, it just doesn't "wow" me. Then again, not all cards are supposed to "wow".
For Corrosive Steam - Sometimes you have to go simple. I just love how this card is almost better when you're not playing black, as it acts like a 5cc removal spell for every color.
I'm not sure if 5cc removal is on cost when compared to green, a color that a) normally doesn't get outright removal and b) can ramp. It might be on cost since Beast Within takes out ANY permanent for 2G (while giving the controller a 3/3 token)...I just remember how much I hated Dismember being in every deck, and how Rosewater said that it bled the color pie too much.
Against Macabre Taxidermist: The problems with it are that it's undercosted, and that the (unrestricted) effect shouldn't show up so efficiently at uncommon on a body, if at all. (Karmic Guide (5 + echo 5), Phyrexian Delver (5 + life equal to cmc), Artisan of Kozilek (9)). Even at rare, this severely outclasses delver if it costs less than 6.
The 3-or-less cmc suggestion should be fine, considering Crypt Champion.
If there's no color, then you could search for a card with no color. Might have to spell that out on the card though. We could drop the price of the card to BB as suggested. And it would provide a target discard for Reanimator cards.
The problem is that the wording on the card doesn't actually mean anything. It would have to be "shares a color with that card", except that means discarding an artifact finds you nothing since nothing shares a color with it.
I'm not sure if 5cc removal is on cost when compared to green, a color that a) normally doesn't get outright removal and b) can ramp. It might be on cost since Beast Within takes out ANY permanent for 2G (while giving the controller a 3/3 token)...I just remember how much I hated Dismember being in every deck, and how Rosewater said that it bled the color pie too much.
All good points, but dismember costs 1 and this costs 5. I'm pretty sure no constructed deck will play this, but most limited decks will, which is why I like it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I see your point. well we can always just do something else but with the same trigger. it's the "caring about dead lands" part that's important. Hell, you could even make this card to replace that sacrifice dude i don't like:
Midlands Dredger4B
Creature - Zombie (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each land card in each graveyard.
2/2
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
1st: On the newest Card Midlands Dredger, for flavor could we make him a human 1/1 or even 2/2? This way he is a Necrotechnic making Zombies, I like that feel and will vote for him in that form.
2nd: It seems like several cards are being liked, but maybe should go to rare due to complications/cool factor, these include: Backroom Dealings, Macabre Taxidermist, Cruel Gunner, and Cheating at cards. I propose we move all of these to rare and sort them out then in more powerful forms.
Assuming you're all for that, these are my new votes:
UB01 - Desert Gearbones (I still don't like him but I'm willing to bend) UB02 - Steam Fiend UB03 - Corporate Elite 2.0 ( I want to point out that basically only artifact creatures can block her this way. If any creature uses intimidate well in an artifact set it's this one.) UB04 - [Insert awesome name here] (I believe I named him Necrotech Abomination but I'm not sure if the name stuck.)(This is where I would put the Dredger if he were a Necrotechnic Human.) UB05 - Snake oil Salesman (It seems like we need to abandon Blacks "sac stuff" theme, we can only support one theme where you do stuff you wouldn't normally want to do and the spellslingers are cooler, I say we print two.) UB06 - Maverick Enforcer (I still think he's the best spellslinger we have due to simplicity, flavor, and usability.) UB07 - Hymnal Box II (I think this needs some work but I approve of the concept.) UB08 - Three card Monty 3.0 (To play up the poker theme, I do want to propose a new Three card Monty for peoples consideration which I do below) UB09 - Demonic Dividends (it's just better than Cull and Spoil.)
Ok, this is my new Three card Monty 3.0
Three Card Monty 3.0 1B
Sorcery
Target Opponent reveals their hand. Choose three cards, Shuffle and exile them face down. That player chooses one face down card and discards the other two.
I'm aware this card strays from the Despise, Duress, Inquisition formula but it was necessary to make it feel like playing Three Card Monty. The previous versions to me felt like "bad" or "overly-random" version on 1 cmc Black discard spells. This feels like a good 2 cmc discard spell that sacrifices accuracy for volume.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs." -Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
The problem is that the wording on the card doesn't actually mean anything. It would have to be "shares a color with that card", except that means discarding an artifact finds you nothing since nothing shares a color with it.
I guess we could add another line that says, "If that card is colorless, you may search for a colorless card." Also, I was thinking about it... Do we need a "reveal this card" clause to prevent cheating?
@ LnGrrrR: You might be right. I wanted it to be like Distress but Sacrificing Accuracy for Volume of card discard. In the end it is kind of a better Mind Rot.....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs." -Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
Maverick Enforcer is much too similar to Maverick Bigshot.
Why exactly do people like hymnal box? I just don't get it. It's an artifact that... forces your opponent to pay mana... or they discard? I don't see how this is relevant to the set.
You don't need to spell out how to "choose randomly", you can just say "Choose three cards, your opponent discards one of them at random." That said I still don't like this card.
Yes, Ace in the Hole has to reveal the card you find.
I'll continuously oppose intimidate in this set solely because of the feel-bad factor. Trust me, your opponent will have an artifact creature 9/10. The fact you can get around all of his other creatures doesn't really matter at that point. The card is cool, but i don't think it was meant for Archester.
Insert Awesome Name Here overlaps with Demonic Dividends
I would be fine if dredger was a 1/1 human but he should probably cost 3B at that point.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I'm fairly confident that it's fine but testing it like that probably wouldn't hurt.
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
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Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)(U/R)(R/W)(W/U)
changing votes. surprising, I know.
UB03- Corporate Elite. I just got the synergy, and I feel dumb, and even though I like gunner, this is really something.
UB07- l00ke00's version of Hymnal Box.
I'll throw in my thoughts on why Cull and Spoil is a sweet card, and destroys a Harrowing Journey in the face.
1) It feels vampiric. Black is known for boosting itself by hurting others, often with cards like Sorin's Thirst. This exact type of design has never been done before, but it feels like those cards.
2) It has huge possible uses and interactions, which is not very common in these vampiric cards. Imagine the cuteness with a meekstone. Imagine the destruction with a Precursor Golem.
3) It hearkens back to Seeds of Strength with it's text. Everyone liked that card.
4) Timmy- big explosive spell to blow out the game! Everyone's gonna gasp when I wreck Ed's saproling deck and swing in with my Sister's of Stone Death!
5) Johnny- I'm totally combining this with Cytoplast Manipulator, the CA is gonna rock. Maybe I'll take that Sisters of Stone Death Timmy keeps playing and then hissing before chuckling like a n00b.
6) Spike- my control deck needs something to beat that white aggro... Hello Top 8...
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
Interacts poorly with Precursor Golem, who only cares about spells that target a single creature. Each golem could get 3 +1/+1 counters, and -3/-3 until end of turn. Not exactly "destructive." Similarly, the interaction with Meekstone is uninteresting. Unless you want make your opponent's creatures bigger to lock them with meekstone. Even then, there are better ways to do this.
Points against this: ~6 lines of text makes it incredibly wordy, for such a simple effect; Has the potential to be a complete blowout, given the proper setup. This causes it to be very swingy; Because it's so swingy and can cause such huge blowouts, it's unfun to play against. It causes ugh.-really?-of-course-you'd-have-that games, which are very frustrating, especially in limited.
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch | Maga, Traitor to Mortals | Mayael the Anima | Rafiq of the Many | Rhys the Redeemed
Sasaya, Oorochi Ascendant | Sygg, River Cutthroat | Thada Adel, Acquisitor | Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
but everyone where I lived adored Seeds of Strength.
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
Cue rebuttal!
1) Simplicity. As avid magic players, we often forget how complex things can be. On top of that, the fact we're all very familiar with archester means that mechanics don't surprise us any more. We have to take into account that a triple hybrid card can still be really confusing. While you may understand it conceptually, grasping the fact you can cast it for all sorts of different costs can be confusing during an actual game. This is the reason I liked the other three members of this cycle; they're simple effects that the color is known for. Players see them and instantly understand what they do, so they don't have to be baffled by both the effect and cost of the card.
Even for more experienced players, the fact the effect on the card is a known quantity is a big deal. It's incredibly hard to judge how powerful a triple hybrid card is. Hell, even WotC kinda messed up the first time with Spectral Procession being insane. Having an effect players can connect to a card they already know helps them to analyze and judge it's power level.
2) Elegance. One of my main gripes with Cull and Spoil is that it's wording is so awkward. I hated Seeds of Strength for this very reason. Yes, i understand why it needs to be worded like that, but that didn't excuse it in my mind for being so clunky. The rest of the cycle is simple an elegant, this card is not.
3) Removal. I feel like right now there's a lot of removal in black, including the suggested uncommons. While black is the removal color, adding even more removal to black just makes it seem stale; black can do things other than kill.
4) Reloading. What's the main problem with discarding cards as a mechanic? Well... you run out of cards. In limited this would be a great way to refill your hand after you've run out of cards.
/end rebuttal
Hymnal box confuses me. I don't really know why it's here or what it's trying to do. It seems more like a rare than an uncommon IMO.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
And a point on the points made by both of you-
All valid points, though Cull And Spoil is a sorcery.
Cull and Spoil however, is not just removal. it does far more. It ends attrition wars. It's a finisher that makes for a crazy story. It's the card that plays like that time you first realized how good Psychatog was, or that time you accidently went infinite in EDH.
It has never been done before though- we could alter it to be less odd, replace the counters with a simple giant growth effect. Less prone to being broken.
Pro C&Sers, back a Timmy up!
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
I just don't really see these super exciting scenarios you're talking about. This card can obviously steal games by killing off something important and powering up a valuable creature, but i don't see the "timmy" in that. A timmy likes it when he connects with a spirit token to flip his Elbrus. This is more akin to winning with Infest...
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Now I may be weird. I play EDH games where I lose but I call it a win because I drop 50 cards in one turn to take out the guy who dropped a curse on me... and start busting up when he topdecks Austere Command, destroying everything I just played and keeping his curse. This feels like that kind of topdeck.
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
it does for 90% of timmies
The point of the matter is that this does not create "cool" moments. Imo there's nothing very "exciting" about this card. It kills things and makes your dudes bigger. It reminds me a lot of Skinrender. It's a value card.
IMO, even something like Infest or Damnnation is a better timmy card. You just get to kill everything and laugh maniacally. This card gives you card advantage and marginal value. This is not the kind of thing timmy is into. You might like it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the Timmy part of you that does. (BTW, if playing with spike cards makes me happy, am I a timmy? Not really... Timmy doesn't always have to play with fatties, but he much prefers bigger, splashier, and more awesome effects than this.)
I won't argue the fact that this card is more timmy than Dividends, but i don't see the main appeal of this card being to timmy.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I guess the votes will decide.
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
Some things to note...
UB01 – Creature, Splinter
Macabre Taxidermist :2mana::symb::symb:*
Creature - Human Artificer
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may put target creature card from your graveyard onto the battlefield. That creature an artifact in addition to it's other types.
2/2
Votes: 1/8
Necrotech Prodigies :3mana::symb:****
four dead men lay before a shovel wielding young blue collar man. There is a cart behind him, with a high class young woman pulling it.
Focus: The look of love on their faces
Creature- Human Artificer
Whenever you sacrifice a nontoken permanent, put a 1/1 black zombie token onto the battlefield.
Their lust for knowledge is as forbidden as their love.
2/2
Votes: 4/8
Clock Hunter :2mana::symb::symb:*
Creature - Human Rogue
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may destroy target creature. If you do, put all counters from that creature on ~.
"The elves see a marvel of nature. I see cogs ripe for the taking."
1/1
Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB02 – (Artifact) Creature, Splinter,
Desert Gearbones 2.0 :1mana::sym2b:******
Artifact Creature - Skeleton Construct [Uncommon]
:sym2b:: Return ~ from your graveyard to your hand.
2/1
Votes: 6/8
Hostile Worker :sym2b:*
Artifact Creature - Assembly-Worker
Intimidate
Steam-powered-When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a creature unless only colorless mana was spent to cast ~.
"They may be a bit messy but they're quite good for taking out rebellious workers"
-Manufactory owner
3/3
Votes: 1/8
Spring Scavenger :sym2b::sym2b:**
Artifact Creature - Zombie Construct
Whenever another artifact creature dies, put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
A twisted mockery of clockwork beasts, it lurks in the marshes waiting for their cogs to fail.
2/1
Votes: 2/8
==============================
UB03 – Creature, Group
Corporate Elite :symb::symb:**
Creature - Human Advisor (U)
Intimidate
Protection from white
In the Iron City, one learns quickly that the laws to not apply to everyone.
2/2
Votes: 2/8
Cruel Gunner :1mana::symb::symb:*
A weathered looking woman specks of red on his jacket stands in a dark Iron City alleyway at night over a body, holding an ingenious steam gun.
Focus: the smirk peering out from under the brim of her hat.
Creature - Human Warrior
First Strike, Deathtouch, Lifelink
2/1
Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB04 – (Artifact) Creature, Group,
Corporate Elite 2.0 :symb::symb:***
Creature - Human Advisor [Uncommon]
Intimidate
(2/B): Becomes the color of your choice until end of turn.
In the Iron City, one learns quickly that the laws do not apply to everyone.
2/1
Votes: 3/8
Steamdealer 2.0 :2mana::symb::symb:*
Creature - Human Advisor Shaman [Uncommon]
At the beginning of your precombat main phase, you lose 1 life and add 2 to your mana pool.
2/2
Votes: 1/8
Francium Carrier :2mana::symb:**
A laughing crazy man runs into a busy street carrying a strange rock towards a fountain.
Focus: the rock
Creature- Human
When Francium Carrier dies, all creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn.
Just a touch of water.
1/1
Votes: 2/8
Corrupted Machinery :4mana::sym2b::sym2b:***
Artifact Creature - Horror Construct [Uncommon]
:sym2b:, Sacrifice a land: Regenerate ~.
6/2
Votes: 3/8
[Insert Awesome Name] :3mana::sym2b::sym2b:*
Artifact Creature - Horror Construct [Uncommon]
When ~ enters the battlefield, you draw two cards and you lose 4 life.
When in the Iron City always remember the old axiom, "Let the buyer beware."
4/4
Votes: 1/8
Steam Fiend :1mana::sym2b:*****
Artifact Creature - Horror (U)
Flying
Whenever you cast a spell or activate an ability with only colorless mana, ~ gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
1/1
Votes: 5/8
==============================
UB05 – Creature, Group
Hitmen :4mana::symb:**
Creature - Human Assassin (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target creature.
"There are two kinds of people in my world: the ones that get the job done, and their targets."
--Tecksa Rend, defacto gangleader of the Mavericks
2/2
Votes: 2/8
Coldheart Extortionist :symb:*
A man carries a traveler's bag out of a house. There are bloodstains on the windows.
Focus: the bag.
Creature- Human Rogue
Whenever a player sacrifices a creature, you may pay 1. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Coldheart Extortionist.
"Your mother died? How tragic..."
0/1
Votes: 1/8
Carrion Vultures :1mana::symb:*
Creature - Bird [Uncommon]
Flying
Sacrifice a creature: Put a +1/+1 counter on ~.
1/1
Votes: 1/8
Scrapyard Surveyor :3mana::symb:*****
Creature - Bird Rogue (U)
Flying
Whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
2/1
Votes: 5/8
==============================
UB06 – Creature, Group
Maverick Overseer 2.0 :3mana::symb::symb:*
Creature-Human Spellslinger
T, Discard a card: Untap target Spellslinger. If an artifact card was discarded, untap each other Spellslinger you control.
2/2
Votes: 1/8
Snake Oil Salesman :symb:*****
Creature - Human Spellslinger
B, :symtap:, Discard a card: Each opponent discards a card. If you discarded an artifact card this way, each opponent loses life equal to the converted mana cost of the card he or she discarded. Activate this ability only at any time you could cast a sorcery.
Those who purchase rainwater as pricey "medicine" are the lucky ones.
1/1
Votes: 5/8
Maverick Enforcer :1mana::symb::symb:*
In the foreground the back of a man in a long black overcoat and cowboy hat, past him we say an emaciated cowboy with purple or black smoke rising from him.
Creature - Human Spellslinger
:symb:, :symtap:, Discard a card: Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn. If an artifact was discarded this way gain 2 life.
2/2
Votes: 1/8
Frontier Mentalist :1mana::symb::symb:*
Creature - Human Spellslinger [Uncommon]
:2mana::symb::symb:, , Discard a card: Target opponent discards a card. If you discarded an artifact card to activate this ability, that opponent discards two cards instead. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
2/2
Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB07 – Enchantment OR Sorcery OR Instant,
Reconstruct the Corpse II :sym2b::sym2b:*
Sorcery
Return up to one target artifact creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield under your control. It gains haste. Exile it at the end of turn.
Steam-powered -- If only colorless mana was spent to cast ~, return target creature card from a graveyard to the battlefield instead. It gains haste. Exile it at the end of turn.
Votes: 1/8
Brawl in the Boiler Room :2mana::sym2b:**
Sorcery [Uncommon]
Target creature fights another target creature. The controller of each creature that survives that fight may have target player of his or her choice discard a card.
(2/B): Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn. Any player may activate this ability, but only while ~ is on the stack.
Votes: 2/8
Hymnal Box II :sym2b::sym2b:**
a dark rusty music box is open on a shelf of trinkets. The figure is a perfectly made representation of an elvish dancer in ebony.
Artifact
Steam Powered- if only colorless mana was spent to cast Hymnal Box, it enters the battlefield with a charge counter on it.
At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent may pay :2mana:. Otherwise he discards 2 cards, then you draw a card for each charge counter on Hymnal Box and sacrifice Hymnal Box.
The song is beautiful but the meaning painful.
Votes: 2/8
Corrosive Steam :1mana::sym2b::sym2b:**
Instant [Uncommon]
Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn.
Votes: 2/8
Necrotechnic Lunge :xmana::sym2b:*
Sorcery [Uncommon]
Return target creature card with converted mana cost X from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step.
Steampowered -- If only colorless mana was used to cast ~, don't exile that creature at the beginning of the next end step.
Votes: 1/8
Zombfog :1mana::sym2b::sym2b:*
Instant
Target player sacrifices a nonartifact creature.
Steam Powered -- If only colorless mana was spent to cast ~, return that creature to the battlefield under your control.
Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB08 – Enchantment OR Sorcery OR Instant
Backroom Dealings :2mana::symb:**
Enchantment
Whenever you discard a card, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
Votes: 2/8
"Accidental" Oil Spill :3mana::symb::symb:*
Sorcery
Destroy target non-basic land, that lands controller discards a card for each land card in their graveyard.
"Of course, the Council will make sure you're compensated in full for ALL your losses." - Andony Carnigig
Votes: 1/8
Cheating at Cards :2mana::symb:****
A hand holding 5 poker cards, all of them Aces.
Sorcery
Until end of turn, whenever you discard a card due to a creature's ability you may exile it instead. At end of turn return all cards exiled this way to your hand.
Votes: 4/8
Three-card Monty :symb:*
Sorcery (U)
Target opponent chooses two cards in his or her hand, then reveals the rest. You choose a nonland card from it. That player discards one of the chosen cards at random.
Votes: 1/8
Three-card Monty II :symb:*
Sorcery
Target opponent reveals his or hand. You choose three nonland cards from it. That player discards one of those cards at random.
Votes: 1/8
Robber Baron's Bargin :2mana::symb:*
Instant [Uncommon]
When you cast ~, any player may sacrifice two lands. If a player does, counter ~.
Target player sacrifices a creature.
Let's make a deal... --Andony Carnigig, the "Robber" Baron
Votes: 1/8
Polluted Rain :symb:*
Instant [Uncommon]
Until end of turn, lands you control gain "Sacrifice this land: Add to your mana pool."
"When I say it rained, it was not small drops, but a thick, greasy drool pouring from the heavens." - Terent Livinton, Ex-Flats farmer, journal
Votes: 1/8
Ace in the Hole :2mana::symb:***
Sorcery
Discard a card. Search your library for a card of the same color and put it into your hand.
"A little sleight of hand is all it takes..."
Votes: 3/8
Corpse Disposal :1mana::symb:*
(Art: One "made man" dumps a suspicious body bag into a vat of acid as two others look around nonchalantly.)
Instant (U)
Until end of turn, if a card would be put into a graveyard, exile it instead.
Draw a card.
You don't need to be subtle if you know how to hide the evidence.
Votes: 1/8
Manufactory Explosion :2mana::symb:*
Instant [Uncommon]
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice a land.
~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you lose 2 life.
You might be surprised just how far blame can be thrown.
Votes: 1/8
Smogfire Deluxe Edition :symb::symb:*
Sorcery
Each player loses 2 life. Target player loses 2 additional life unless he sacrifices a permanent.
Votes: 1/8
Burning Fields :1mana::symb:*
Instant
~ deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of land cards in all graveyards.
Votes: 1/8
==============================
UB09 – Sorcery OR Instant, :sym2b:, (Cycle)
Cull and Spoil :sym2b::sym2b::sym2b:****
Sorcery
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Put three +1/+1 counters divided as you choose among any number of target creatures.
Votes: 4/8
Demonic Dividends :sym2b::sym2b::sym2b:****
Instant
Target player draws 3 cards and loses 3 life.
Archester has no demons, so the business of brokering twisted deals fell to beings even more ruthless and less sympathetic.
Votes: 4/8
Sig by Rivenor
Cube. The best way to play Magic. PERIOD. Come over and check it out. Also, check out my Peasant Split Card Cube.
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Set Creation Projects: Archester: Frontier of Steam Come over and check out our AWESOME Steampunk set.
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My testimonies:
Against Necrotech Prodigies - Black doesn't have a sacrifice theme. If anything i thought that red green was going to have more sacrifice effects. The seemingly large number of them must just be a side effect of black's land theme. This card just feels very out of place to me. The point is supposed to be the lands, not the fact you're sacrificing them.
Against Corporate Elite 2.0 - As was mentioned earlier in this thread, intimidate doesn't really go too well in this set. This is a reversal on my original opinion. After playing with it, intimidate just feels bad. Corporate Elite 2.0 is a cool card, but i don't like having a cool card be ruined by a format designed to beat it.
For Corrupted Machinery - Black usually gets at least one of these big creatures. This card has a lot of our set mechanics put together in a pretty elegant way, and fills a role that's currently empty.
Against Cheating at Cards - This should be rare IMO. Not this card specifically, but an effect like this (preferably as an enchantment). This is partially because i'd rather have a cool rare than an ok uncommon, and partially because there are better cards for uncommon IMO. Some cards I can't see as a rare, but this one I can, so i think it should be moved there.
Against Ace in the Hole - How does this interact with colorless cards? Anyway, I don't really like this card. It's card disadvantage in a color that's already got a lot of discarding effects. This could also make a good rare with some tweaks.
For Burning Fields - IMO, this is the card that we should be making, not a "sacrifice" card. This card takes advantage of both black's land sacrifice theme and black's discard theme. Not to mention it's potentially modern playable with a wide host of fetch lands.
For Corrosive Steam - Sometimes you have to go simple. I just love how this card is almost better when you're not playing black, as it acts like a 5cc removal spell for every color.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Turn 3 with ramp and a self aimed discard first round.
Please, Modern Grozoth will break the game. Make this bad boy cost 5.
WSoul SistersW
Commander
WIsperia the InscrutableU
WGaddock TeegG
UTomorrow, Azami's FamiliarU
Archester
Custom Cube
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Slot 1, Creature:
Voting for Macabre Taxidermist: The idea of a person brought back to life as a mechanical puppet is awesome in my eyes. I don't really get the flavor behind the other zombie card, and it should make 2/2 zombies to play nicely with other zombie tokens.
Slot 2, Creature:
Voting for Desert Gearbones: I have a few reservations about this card. Why not just do a semi-functional reprint of the usual "Spend X mana, if this is in your graveyard, put this creature onto the battlefield tapped" ability? I'm just not seeing the flavor of returning it to hand. Are people scrapping the skeleton for spare parts to make more skeletons?
Slot 3, Creature:
Voting for Cruel Gunner:... with the caveat that I don't think it should have lifelink, it should be a 1/1, and it should cost at least 4 mana (2BB preferably). There's only three cards with first strike and deathtouch... Cairn Wanderer (which costs 5 and requires a deathtoucher and first striker in the gy), Glissa the Traitor (which is dual color mythic), and Nirkana Cutthroat, which you have to spend a total of 12 mana on before it unlocks deathtouch/first strike. Still, I think there's room for a 1/1 dt/first striker.
Slot 4: Creature
Voting for Corrupted Machinery: Solid body, regen, land destruction theme. Hits all the boxes.
Slot 5: Creature
Voting for Hitmen: Simple, fits the flavor. While Scrapyard Surveyor is a nice card, I think WotC has tried to move away from "artifacts matter" cards in black (maybe they're still feeling burn from disciple of the vault). Also, while I expect a greater than average amount of artifacts in this block, I don't think this has to be the New Mirrodin.
Slot 6: Creature
Voting for Maverick Enforcer: We likely can't have both Hitmen and this in the same set, as it would make B stacked on removal, but I like the flavor of draining the life out of someone.
Slot 7: Instant/Sorcery/Enchantment
Voting for Ace in the Hole: Total homer pick here, but I think it's thematic, and it plays into black (tutoring) and red (discard a card to get a new card) mechanics. It's not too backbreaking of a drawback, but it will probably come up right when you don't need it to. And heck, you can always throw away a land to find an artifact.
Slot 8: Instant/Sorcery/Enchantment
Voting for Robber Baron's Bargain: I know, I just talked about too much removal up there. But still, fun awesome card. Only change is that I'd make it one land... I doubt many people would be willing to trade 2 lands. More of a development than design thing though.
Slot 9: Cycle
Voting for... neither. No offense, but I like my cycles to be inspired, and these feel more functional/mechanical than top-down.
Honorable Mentions:
Corpse Disposal - I like it, but I feel it's somewhat limited. What about an enchantment?
Three card monty II - Fun and cheeky card.
Coldheart Extortionist - I feel the flavor/mechanics don't quite match, but I LOVE the flavor.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm fine with weakening the card. Making it cost 5, and possibly changing it's p/t to 1/2 ala Bitterheart Witch, or even 1/1. Let's face it, it's a sorcery (Unburial Rites w/out the flashback) on a body.
I'd also be fine with changing it to an ability, a la Havengul Runebinder except reanimating, and then putting some severe restrictions on the PT allowed to reanimate, or placing a penalty on the reanimated creature. (Can't block, can't attack, can't untap, etc etc)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Agreed.
Seems like a re-imaging of Bottled Cloister to me.
If there's no color, then you could search for a card with no color. Might have to spell that out on the card though. We could drop the price of the card to BB as suggested. And it would provide a target discard for Reanimator cards.
Good points, it just doesn't "wow" me. Then again, not all cards are supposed to "wow".
I'm not sure if 5cc removal is on cost when compared to green, a color that a) normally doesn't get outright removal and b) can ramp. It might be on cost since Beast Within takes out ANY permanent for 2G (while giving the controller a 3/3 token)...I just remember how much I hated Dismember being in every deck, and how Rosewater said that it bled the color pie too much.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
The 3-or-less cmc suggestion should be fine, considering Crypt Champion.
As an activated ability, it would have to be rare. (Coffin Queen, Gravespawn Sovereign, Apprentice Necromancer, Doomed Necromancer, Hell's Caretaker, Order of whiteclay, Pulsemage Advocate)
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch | Maga, Traitor to Mortals | Mayael the Anima | Rafiq of the Many | Rhys the Redeemed
Sasaya, Oorochi Ascendant | Sygg, River Cutthroat | Thada Adel, Acquisitor | Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
The problem is that the wording on the card doesn't actually mean anything. It would have to be "shares a color with that card", except that means discarding an artifact finds you nothing since nothing shares a color with it.
All good points, but dismember costs 1 and this costs 5. I'm pretty sure no constructed deck will play this, but most limited decks will, which is why I like it.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Midlands Dredger 4B
Creature - Zombie (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each land card in each graveyard.
2/2
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
1st: On the newest Card Midlands Dredger, for flavor could we make him a human 1/1 or even 2/2? This way he is a Necrotechnic making Zombies, I like that feel and will vote for him in that form.
2nd: It seems like several cards are being liked, but maybe should go to rare due to complications/cool factor, these include: Backroom Dealings, Macabre Taxidermist, Cruel Gunner, and Cheating at cards. I propose we move all of these to rare and sort them out then in more powerful forms.
Assuming you're all for that, these are my new votes:
UB01 - Desert Gearbones (I still don't like him but I'm willing to bend)
UB02 - Steam Fiend
UB03 - Corporate Elite 2.0 ( I want to point out that basically only artifact creatures can block her this way. If any creature uses intimidate well in an artifact set it's this one.)
UB04 - [Insert awesome name here] (I believe I named him Necrotech Abomination but I'm not sure if the name stuck.)(This is where I would put the Dredger if he were a Necrotechnic Human.)
UB05 - Snake oil Salesman (It seems like we need to abandon Blacks "sac stuff" theme, we can only support one theme where you do stuff you wouldn't normally want to do and the spellslingers are cooler, I say we print two.)
UB06 - Maverick Enforcer (I still think he's the best spellslinger we have due to simplicity, flavor, and usability.)
UB07 - Hymnal Box II (I think this needs some work but I approve of the concept.)
UB08 - Three card Monty 3.0 (To play up the poker theme, I do want to propose a new Three card Monty for peoples consideration which I do below)
UB09 - Demonic Dividends (it's just better than Cull and Spoil.)
Ok, this is my new Three card Monty 3.0
Three Card Monty 3.0 1B
Sorcery
Target Opponent reveals their hand. Choose three cards, Shuffle and exile them face down. That player chooses one face down card and discards the other two.
I'm aware this card strays from the Despise, Duress, Inquisition formula but it was necessary to make it feel like playing Three Card Monty. The previous versions to me felt like "bad" or "overly-random" version on 1 cmc Black discard spells. This feels like a good 2 cmc discard spell that sacrifices accuracy for volume.
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
I guess we could add another line that says, "If that card is colorless, you may search for a colorless card." Also, I was thinking about it... Do we need a "reveal this card" clause to prevent cheating?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
"People with needs have trivial purchasing power while people with purchasing power have trivial needs."
-Steve Randy Waldman, Interfludity
Why exactly do people like hymnal box? I just don't get it. It's an artifact that... forces your opponent to pay mana... or they discard? I don't see how this is relevant to the set.
You don't need to spell out how to "choose randomly", you can just say "Choose three cards, your opponent discards one of them at random." That said I still don't like this card.
Yes, Ace in the Hole has to reveal the card you find.
I'll continuously oppose intimidate in this set solely because of the feel-bad factor. Trust me, your opponent will have an artifact creature 9/10. The fact you can get around all of his other creatures doesn't really matter at that point. The card is cool, but i don't think it was meant for Archester.
Insert Awesome Name Here overlaps with Demonic Dividends
I would be fine if dredger was a 1/1 human but he should probably cost 3B at that point.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing