Trying to nail down a final version of Overwhelm from Runin (see sig) while exploring different options.
This is currently the forerunner
Overwhelm [cost] (You may cast this card for it's overwhelm cost after declaring an attacker with power 4 or greater. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
Is there any issues here? If so, how might they be resolved? Particularly, is there any issue with the fact that this works from the hand, a hidden zones?
All the Traps from original Zendikar block provide an alternative casting cost conditioned on previous game events, so there's plenty of precedent. In terms of a full CR entry to explain exactly what the reminder text means, the condition would be something like "you may cast this spell for its Overwhelm cost during the declare attackers step on your turn if a creature with power 4 or greater was declared as an attacker".
Might also consider this variation which might be simpler to keep track of:
Overwhelm [cost] (You may cast this card for its overwhelm cost if you control an attacking creature with power 4 or greater. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
Differences would mainly be with raising power after a creature with <4 power has attacked, effects like Kaalia of the Vast, and effects like Relentless Assault.
Might also consider this variation which might be simpler to keep track of:
Overwhelm [cost] (You may cast this card for its overwhelm cost if you control an attacking creature with power 4 or greater. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
Differences would mainly be with raising power after a creature with <4 power has attacked, effects like Kaalia of the Vast, and effects like Relentless Assault.
I think this is close to my very first version, but the problem here is that it allows you to put creatures into play attacking after blockers are declared. -of which the only implementation that wouldn't cause the rules to explode would make this mechanic into an unblockable effect, which is not at all what the mechanic is supposed to be doing.
I sort of thought that was the overpowered point. The declare blockers step is still after you declare attackers. Your wording in the first post sounds like you can do it any time during the turn after you have attacked with a creature with power 4 or greater. From the wording, for example, if you attack with a 4+ power creature, it is killed in combat, then you cast Relentless Assault, I would expect that you could still cast a creature with overwhelm during that additional combat phase even if you no longer have any 4+ power creatures.
If the intent is only during the declare attackers step, that is going to need to be more verbose. Something like:
If you attack with a creature with power 4 or greater, you may cast this card for its overwhelm cost during your declare attackers step. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.
I sort of thought that was the overpowered point. The declare blockers step is still after you declare attackers. Your wording in the first post sounds like you can do it any time during the turn after you have attacked with a creature with power 4 or greater. From the wording, for example, if you attack with a 4+ power creature, it is killed in combat, then you cast Relentless Assault, I would expect that you could still cast a creature with overwhelm during that additional combat phase even if you no longer have any 4+ power creatures.
If the intent is only during the declare attackers step, that is going to need to be more verbose. Something like:
If you attack with a creature with power 4 or greater, you may cast this card for its overwhelm cost during your declare attackers step. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Perhaps. I would think most people would get the idea from my current wording, but yes, it's not exactly clear.
This is currently the forerunner
Overwhelm [cost] (You may cast this card for it's overwhelm cost after declaring an attacker with power 4 or greater. If you do, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
Is there any issues here? If so, how might they be resolved? Particularly, is there any issue with the fact that this works from the hand, a hidden zones?
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Differences would mainly be with raising power after a creature with <4 power has attacked, effects like Kaalia of the Vast, and effects like Relentless Assault.
I think this is close to my very first version, but the problem here is that it allows you to put creatures into play attacking after blockers are declared. -of which the only implementation that wouldn't cause the rules to explode would make this mechanic into an unblockable effect, which is not at all what the mechanic is supposed to be doing.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
If the intent is only during the declare attackers step, that is going to need to be more verbose. Something like:
Perhaps. I would think most people would get the idea from my current wording, but yes, it's not exactly clear.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice