Is there anything that I'm missing here that would otherwise prevent this mechanic from existing (other than comprehension difficulty issues)?
Elusive SoldierWU Creature - Human Soldier {S}
Elusive (Reminder text pending)
1/1
VERSION 2
702.ELU Elusive
702.ELUa Elusive is a static ability that appears on some permanents. It is also an ability that a player can have.
702.ELUb If an effect that doesn't target a permanent or player with elusive would perform an action on that permanent or player, make another object or player perform an action on that permanent or player, or make that permanent or player perform any actions, and the set of objects it could affect consists of at least two permanents and/or players, that spell or ability doesn't affect the permanent or player with elusive. If the set of objects that such an effect could affect consists of just the permanent or player with elusive, the spell or ability will affect the permanent or player as normal.
Example: Glorious Anthem is an enchantment that reads, "Creatures you control get +1/+1." If Alice controls a Glorious Anthem and a creature with elusive, the creature with elusive will not get +1/+1. It doesn't matter if Alice controls any other creatures.
Example: An Equipment is attached to a creature with elusive. The Equipment reads, "Equipped creature gets +1/+1." Since the only object or player that ability can affect is the creature, the creature will get +1/+1.
Example: Alice casts Lightning Bolt, a spell that reads, "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player", targeting Bob's creature with elusive. The creature will be dealt 3 damage as Lightning Bolt resolves.
702.ELUc Effects may still determine information about a permanent or player with elusive. Parts of the effect of a spell or ability that do not match the criteria listed in 702.ELUb may still affect that permanent or player.
Example: Alice casts Sleep, a spell that reads, "Tap all creatures target player controls. Those creatures don't untap during that player's next untap step", targeting Bob. Bob controls an Elusive Soldier, a creature with elusive. Upon resolution, Sleep will not cause the Elusive Soldier to become tapped. However, it will still not untap during Bob's next untap step.
702.ELUd Multiple instances of elusive on a permanent or player are redundant.
702.ELU Elusive
702.ELUa Elusive is a static ability that appears on some permanents. It is also an ability that a player can have.
702.ELUb If a spell or ability that doesn't target a permanent or player with elusive would perform an action on that permanent or player, make another object or player perform an action on that permanent or player, or make that permanent or player perform any actions, that spell or ability doesn't do so.
702.ELUc Effects of spells and abilities may still determine information about a permanent or player with elusive. Parts of the effect of a spell or ability that do not match the criteria listed in 702.ELUb may still affect that permanent or player.
Example: Alice casts Lightning Bolt, a spell that reads, "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player", targeting Bob's creature with elusive. The creature will be dealt 3 damage as Lightning Bolt resolves.
Example: Alice casts Sleep, a spell that reads, "Tap all creatures target player controls. Those creatures don't untap during that player's next untap step", targeting Bob. Bob controls an Elusive Soldier, a creature with elusive. Upon resolution, Sleep will not cause the Elusive Soldier to become tapped. However, it will still not untap during Bob's next untap step.
702.ELUd Multiple instances of elusive on a permanent or player are redundant.
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Elusive does not work without a formal definition of either what "effecting it" is, or what an "action" is, and even given that, it doesn't allow the creature to be affected by targeted Auras. For example, if I cast Mutilate, I'm either not performing an action on it (since all I'm doing is changing characteristics of it), or I am. If -X/-X is considered an action, then Dead Weight won't work the way you want it to. Sure, you can target it just fine, but then the ability "enchanted creature gets -2/-2", which doesn't target it, will try to perform that action, and elusive will say "nope, you're not targetting". It's similarly with any other enchantment: If you want your sleep example to work, then Claustrophobia won't tap it, despite it coming off a targeted Aura.
Elusive does not work without a formal definition of either what "effecting it" is, or what an "action" is, and even given that, it doesn't allow the creature to be affected by targeted Auras. For example, if I cast Mutilate, I'm either not performing an action on it (since all I'm doing is changing characteristics of it), or I am. If -X/-X is considered an action, then Dead Weight won't work the way you want it to. Sure, you can target it just fine, but then the ability "enchanted creature gets -2/-2", which doesn't target it, will try to perform that action, and elusive will say "nope, you're not targetting". It's similarly with any other enchantment: If you want your sleep example to work, then Claustrophobia won't tap it, despite it coming off a targeted Aura.
The problem is that the language used in 702.ELUb is the exact same language used in the "what to do if a spell or ability has illegal targets" rule in the CR. Here is the rule for reference:
608.2b [...] However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell or ability's effect for which it is an illegal target can't perform any actions on that target, make another object or player perform any actions on that target, or make that target perform any actions. The effect may still determine information about illegal targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them.
In the case of Mutilate, if a spell that said "Two target creatures each get -1/-1 until end of turn", and one of them became an illegal target, the illegal target would not receive the P/T hindrance. In the same way, a creature with elusive would not receive the P/T hindrance from Mutilate itself.
This is more of a flavor thing than anything, really, but should I make it so that effects that affect only one object or player will still affect an object or player with elusive? Right now, Dead Weight and Claustrophobia would indeed not give a P/T hindrance to or tap the enchanted creature, respectively. That's fine, but now that I think about it, it doesn't make much sense for them not to do so.
EDIT: Yes, it indeed doesn't make sense for them not to do so. An equipped creature should still get its +P/+T bonus from its Equipment, etc.
I will put additional information regarding this mechanic in a few hours.
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
To determine whether an effect will affect an object with elusive, you can use the following steps, in order. When doing so, ignore any replacement effects or continuous effects that would apply and otherwise change the number of objects in the set of affected objects or cause the effect to or to not do one of the things detailed in steps (3a)-(3c). In other words, you process the effect only "as printed":
1) Does the effect target the object? If yes, the object is affected.
2) Does the set of objects the effect could potentially effect consist only of the object itself? If yes, the object is affected.
3a) Does the effect perform an action on the object? If yes, the object is not affected.
3b) Does the effect cause the object to perform an action? If yes, the object is not affected.
3c) Does the object cause something else to perform an action on the object? If yes, the object is not affected.
4) The object is affected by the effect.
Engulfing Slagwurm - This satisfies (2). The set of creatures to be destroyed upon resolution of one instance of the ability consists of only the creature responsible for triggering that instance of the ability. A creature with elusive will be destroyed.
Stromkirk Noble / Bladetusk Boar / flying / intimidate / fear / landwalk / shadow / etc. - This fails (1) and (2), as not only does the effects of these abilities not target, but these abilities do not just otherwise affect the object with elusive. Having another Human / black creature / creature without the means to block those creatures means that the other creature is still subject to the blocking restriction. In addition, this ability fails (3), (4), and (5), so a creature with elusive will still need to abide by this blocking restriction.
Lure - This satisfies (3). It causes a creature with elusive to do something (block a creature if able). The creature with elusive is not affected by this.
Falter - This satisfies (3). You can tell because a spell that reads "Two target creatures can't block this turn" targeting two creatures, one of which is an illegal target, will not cause the illegally-targeted creature to become subject to the blocking restriction. The creature with elusive is not affected by this.
Fog - This satisfies (3). To handle this, we need to know that "Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn" is equivalent to "Prevent all combat damage that creatures would deal this turn." This is then envisioned as "Prevent all combat damage that two target creatures would deal this turn", which again, if cast as a spell targeting one legal target and one illegal target, will not cause the illegal target's damage to be prevented. The creature with elusive is not affected by this.
Coincidentally, silvercut, you had every single one of the rulings correct in the post that you linked me. That at least shows that the three criteria listed in 608.2b aren't too confusing after all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
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Elusive Soldier WU
Creature - Human Soldier {S}
Elusive (Reminder text pending)
1/1
VERSION 2
702.ELU Elusive
702.ELUa Elusive is a static ability that appears on some permanents. It is also an ability that a player can have.
702.ELUb If an effect that doesn't target a permanent or player with elusive would perform an action on that permanent or player, make another object or player perform an action on that permanent or player, or make that permanent or player perform any actions, and the set of objects it could affect consists of at least two permanents and/or players, that spell or ability doesn't affect the permanent or player with elusive. If the set of objects that such an effect could affect consists of just the permanent or player with elusive, the spell or ability will affect the permanent or player as normal.
702.ELUc Effects may still determine information about a permanent or player with elusive. Parts of the effect of a spell or ability that do not match the criteria listed in 702.ELUb may still affect that permanent or player.
702.ELUd Multiple instances of elusive on a permanent or player are redundant.
702.ELUa Elusive is a static ability that appears on some permanents. It is also an ability that a player can have.
702.ELUb If a spell or ability that doesn't target a permanent or player with elusive would perform an action on that permanent or player, make another object or player perform an action on that permanent or player, or make that permanent or player perform any actions, that spell or ability doesn't do so.
702.ELUc Effects of spells and abilities may still determine information about a permanent or player with elusive. Parts of the effect of a spell or ability that do not match the criteria listed in 702.ELUb may still affect that permanent or player.
702.ELUd Multiple instances of elusive on a permanent or player are redundant.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.
The problem is that the language used in 702.ELUb is the exact same language used in the "what to do if a spell or ability has illegal targets" rule in the CR. Here is the rule for reference:
608.2b [...] However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell or ability's effect for which it is an illegal target can't perform any actions on that target, make another object or player perform any actions on that target, or make that target perform any actions. The effect may still determine information about illegal targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them.
In the case of Mutilate, if a spell that said "Two target creatures each get -1/-1 until end of turn", and one of them became an illegal target, the illegal target would not receive the P/T hindrance. In the same way, a creature with elusive would not receive the P/T hindrance from Mutilate itself.
This is more of a flavor thing than anything, really, but should I make it so that effects that affect only one object or player will still affect an object or player with elusive? Right now, Dead Weight and Claustrophobia would indeed not give a P/T hindrance to or tap the enchanted creature, respectively. That's fine, but now that I think about it, it doesn't make much sense for them not to do so.
EDIT: Yes, it indeed doesn't make sense for them not to do so. An equipped creature should still get its +P/+T bonus from its Equipment, etc.
I will put additional information regarding this mechanic in a few hours.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
1) Does the effect target the object? If yes, the object is affected.
2) Does the set of objects the effect could potentially effect consist only of the object itself? If yes, the object is affected.
3a) Does the effect perform an action on the object? If yes, the object is not affected.
3b) Does the effect cause the object to perform an action? If yes, the object is not affected.
3c) Does the object cause something else to perform an action on the object? If yes, the object is not affected.
4) The object is affected by the effect.
Engulfing Slagwurm - This satisfies (2). The set of creatures to be destroyed upon resolution of one instance of the ability consists of only the creature responsible for triggering that instance of the ability. A creature with elusive will be destroyed.
Stromkirk Noble / Bladetusk Boar / flying / intimidate / fear / landwalk / shadow / etc. - This fails (1) and (2), as not only does the effects of these abilities not target, but these abilities do not just otherwise affect the object with elusive. Having another Human / black creature / creature without the means to block those creatures means that the other creature is still subject to the blocking restriction. In addition, this ability fails (3), (4), and (5), so a creature with elusive will still need to abide by this blocking restriction.
Lure - This satisfies (3). It causes a creature with elusive to do something (block a creature if able). The creature with elusive is not affected by this.
Falter - This satisfies (3). You can tell because a spell that reads "Two target creatures can't block this turn" targeting two creatures, one of which is an illegal target, will not cause the illegally-targeted creature to become subject to the blocking restriction. The creature with elusive is not affected by this.
Fog - This satisfies (3). To handle this, we need to know that "Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn" is equivalent to "Prevent all combat damage that creatures would deal this turn." This is then envisioned as "Prevent all combat damage that two target creatures would deal this turn", which again, if cast as a spell targeting one legal target and one illegal target, will not cause the illegal target's damage to be prevented. The creature with elusive is not affected by this.
Coincidentally, silvercut, you had every single one of the rulings correct in the post that you linked me. That at least shows that the three criteria listed in 608.2b aren't too confusing after all.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall