Monotone WingsUU Enchantment {R}
Creatures you control with exactly 1 power have flying.
The current layers system says it doesn't, but I'd like to know what changes to the layers system would have to be implemented to make Monotone Wings work. Perhaps if the game's layer check reaches the end of layer 7 and there are still abilities whose effects haven't been applied yet, it would loop back over to layer 1 and go down the list again until all continuous effects that would apply at that time have had their chance to apply?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
If the game reached the end of the seventh layer, then it would have checked and applied all of those things. The layer is never going to skip anything, so if the ability exists, then it will be applied sometime before there.
The point of having a layer system is to make sure everything gets applied correctly, and that everything gets applied. So you will never encounter a situation in which you went through the layer and something wasn't applied, unless there was some weird extra spell casting going on in there, but even then, it doesn't particularly "move through" the layer system like the stack, think of it more like lenses you look through. Different lenses make you see things differently, so which lenses are applied will make you see the power and toughness differently.
I don't see how it interacts with the layer system at all, and nothing says it doesnt work. There are cards like "can't be blocked by creatures power N or greater" "destroy creature with power less than the number of X you control." So saying "creatures with a power of 1 have flying." Would work just fine. Nothing in the rules stopping it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
If the game reached the end of the seventh layer, then it would have checked and applied all of those things. The layer is never going to skip anything, so if the ability exists, then it will be applied sometime before there.
Right. My intention was that the enchantment would check for creatures with exactly 1 power after things like Giant Growth, -1/-1 counters, and Ovinize were taken into account. I was wondering if there was a way to make that happen.
I don't see how it interacts with the layer system at all, and nothing says it doesnt work. There are cards like "can't be blocked by creatures power N or greater" "destroy creature with power less than the number of X you control." So saying "creatures with a power of 1 have flying." Would work just fine. Nothing in the rules stopping it.
With the way the layer system works now, the only time it would check for creatures with 1 power would be before any counters and +P effects occur. This is because ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied in a layer before power- and toughness-modifying effects are (6 for abilities as opposed to 7 for power/toughness). This would mean that in order for the game to check after layer 7 has already been passed through to see if any applicable creatures have flying or not, it would have to somehow go iterate through the layer system again a second time to re-add flying (if that makes sense). I'm wondering if there are any weird interactions with existing cards that makes this not a feasible idea.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
It can work as either a triggered ability like Concerted Effort or an activated ability like Gustrider Exuberant because those will both use the creature's final calculated power after all layers. This is why the Naya "power 5 or greater" cards like Spearbreaker Behemoth were all activated abilities.
Was just looking through some older cards and came across this card where I tackled the same problem:
Doubled Growth2GG Enchantment - Aura (R)
Enchant creature
Double enchanted creature's power and toughness. Apply this effect after all other power and toughness calculations are applied.
This could work here too:
Monotone WingsUU Enchantment (R)
Creatures you control with exactly 1 power have flying. Apply this effect after all power and toughness calculations are applied.
Radical and unused before on real cards but just relying on the golden rule that the card's rules text can take precedent over the comprehensive rules. The card makes an exception to the normal calculations for power and toughness and essentially creates a new layer after everything else where this effect that is dependent on power or toughness can be applied. Note that timestamp order would still apply with multiple P/T dependent exceptions like this, so if you played Monotone Wings then played Doubled Growth on a 1/2, Monotone Wings would give it flying then Doubled Growth would make it 2/4 and it would still have flying. If you later cast Giant Growth on it though, you recalculate its power and toughness: Start 1/2, Giant Growth's +3/+3 makes it 4/5, Monotone Wings does not give it flying, then Doubled Growth makes it 8/10.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Monotone Wings UU
Enchantment {R}
Creatures you control with exactly 1 power have flying.
The current layers system says it doesn't, but I'd like to know what changes to the layers system would have to be implemented to make Monotone Wings work. Perhaps if the game's layer check reaches the end of layer 7 and there are still abilities whose effects haven't been applied yet, it would loop back over to layer 1 and go down the list again until all continuous effects that would apply at that time have had their chance to apply?
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
The point of having a layer system is to make sure everything gets applied correctly, and that everything gets applied. So you will never encounter a situation in which you went through the layer and something wasn't applied, unless there was some weird extra spell casting going on in there, but even then, it doesn't particularly "move through" the layer system like the stack, think of it more like lenses you look through. Different lenses make you see things differently, so which lenses are applied will make you see the power and toughness differently.
I don't see how it interacts with the layer system at all, and nothing says it doesnt work. There are cards like "can't be blocked by creatures power N or greater" "destroy creature with power less than the number of X you control." So saying "creatures with a power of 1 have flying." Would work just fine. Nothing in the rules stopping it.
Right. My intention was that the enchantment would check for creatures with exactly 1 power after things like Giant Growth, -1/-1 counters, and Ovinize were taken into account. I was wondering if there was a way to make that happen.
With the way the layer system works now, the only time it would check for creatures with 1 power would be before any counters and +P effects occur. This is because ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied in a layer before power- and toughness-modifying effects are (6 for abilities as opposed to 7 for power/toughness). This would mean that in order for the game to check after layer 7 has already been passed through to see if any applicable creatures have flying or not, it would have to somehow go iterate through the layer system again a second time to re-add flying (if that makes sense). I'm wondering if there are any weird interactions with existing cards that makes this not a feasible idea.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Doubled Growth 2GG
Enchantment - Aura (R)
Enchant creature
Double enchanted creature's power and toughness. Apply this effect after all other power and toughness calculations are applied.
This could work here too:
Monotone Wings UU
Enchantment (R)
Creatures you control with exactly 1 power have flying. Apply this effect after all power and toughness calculations are applied.
Radical and unused before on real cards but just relying on the golden rule that the card's rules text can take precedent over the comprehensive rules. The card makes an exception to the normal calculations for power and toughness and essentially creates a new layer after everything else where this effect that is dependent on power or toughness can be applied. Note that timestamp order would still apply with multiple P/T dependent exceptions like this, so if you played Monotone Wings then played Doubled Growth on a 1/2, Monotone Wings would give it flying then Doubled Growth would make it 2/4 and it would still have flying. If you later cast Giant Growth on it though, you recalculate its power and toughness: Start 1/2, Giant Growth's +3/+3 makes it 4/5, Monotone Wings does not give it flying, then Doubled Growth makes it 8/10.