I have been designing the last couple of rares for my custom set and I just wanted to check some wordings that I'm not 100% sure about.
My comments in BLUE
Boundless SummoningXG
Instant {R}
If its your turn and an opponent has cast a spell this turn, double the value of X.
Look at the top X cards of your library. You may put a creature card with converted mana cost X or less from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
Is doubling the value of X like this ok? I can't seem to find any examples of cards that do this so I'm not sure about the wording.
Bounty of Spring4GG
Sorcery {R}
Choose land or nonland and reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card of the chosen kind. Put that card into your hand and put all other cards revealed this way onto the bottom of your library in any order. Repeat this process for each creature you control.
Will this correctly repeat the effect or do I have to word it differently?
Master Spelltrader2U
Creature - Human Wizard {R}
Whenever an opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell you may exile that card at the end of turn. X,T: Copy a card exiled with ~ with converted mana cost X or less. Cast the copy without paying its mana cost.
2/3
Does the exile work correctly here? Is there an easy way to make it exile when it finishes resolving and goes into the graveyard rather than waiting until end of turn? Is there a good way to make sorceries cast using the ability only available at sorcery speed?
Spelltrader: This will almost certainly not work since the spell on the stack will be gone by the time the delayed trigger kicks in and thus will not be exiled. This is another thing that existing cards haven't really done much.
It works because it refers to "that card", so the card in the graveyard (I don't know if the graveyard has to be specified or "that card" is sufficient). Effects such as Cloudshift, Otherworldly Journey or Mimic Vat all work the same way; the first and second effect refer to a different object, but a creature is represented by a card, and that card is the same object in every zone. Same goes for instants and sorceries.
Your counterexamples all refer to "that card" in the zone where the effect is actually acting upon it (for all of them, exile), so there's no intermediate zone change that causes it to become a different object. As stated, the text of Spelltrader triggers from the spell on the stack, but then tries to act on "that card" in a graveyard, which is a completely different object from the spell that triggered the ability.
To get that one to work it might have to go as far as "Whenever an instant or sorcery controlled by an opponent resolves, if that card was put into a graveyard, you may exile it at the beginning of the next end step." However, I get the feeling that probably still doesn't work.
EDIT: Is there any special reason you're waiting until the end of the turn? You could make it work like Mimic Vat instead.
Your counterexamples all refer to "that card" in the zone where the effect is actually acting upon it (for all of them, exile), so there's no intermediate zone change that causes it to become a different object.
Then a better example would be Savage Summoning. It acts upon three different objects.
Mind = Blown. You have me convinced that it's possible to make the card work without the text box being a total disaster, but the current wording is still too vague about the fact that the card in the graveyard is the one being referenced.
Boundless Summoning: That's super awkward and unprecedented. Something involving the phrase "converted mana cost equal to or less than twice X" should probably work better.
Yes but that means I would have to spell out the effect twice wouldn't I?
Which takes up huge amounts of room on the card.
If you can provide a cleaner wording then I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Bounty: You will end up getting to make a new choice every time, and you will do this N+1 times where N is the number of creatures you control. I don't know what your idea of "correct" is here.
Good thats perfectly what I want then.
Spelltrader: This will almost certainly not work since the spell on the stack will be gone by the time the delayed trigger kicks in and thus will not be exiled. This is another thing that existing cards haven't really done much.
How can I make an all instant and sorcery spells played by an opponent become exiled instead of going into the graveyard?
Is it possible to do this in a way that doesn't allow the player to respond to use the spells in response.
Eg: i don't want an opponent to cast a counterspell and then me use that same counterspell to counter them.
603.7c A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won't affect it. (Note that if that object left that zone and then returned, it's a new object and thus won't be affected. See rule 400.7.)
Add "exile from the graveyard" and the card will expect the object to be in the graveyard as the delayed triggered ability triggers.
(Side note: Savage Summoning doesn't refer to a particular object at all. It sets up a temporary game rule change and has no bearing on anything else here.)
It refers the creature you cast with Savage Summoning.
"Whenever an instant or sorcery spell is put into an opponent's graveyard from the stack, you may exile that card at the beginning of the next end step."
Awkward that you have to reference the stack, but that is the zone it's coming from. This for sure works.
"Whenever an instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls resolves, you may exile that card at the beginning of the next end step."
Does this work? Could add "...resolves and is put into the graveyard, ..." if you want it to be more specific.
Perhaps a better fix is just to have it exile any instant or sorcery when it hits the graveyard for any reason? Obviously better (particularly with mill), but I don't think it really pushes the card over the top.
That's not what "the zone it's expected to be in" means; it really means "the zone this ability last observed it being in". Once the object (spell card) moves to another zone, it becomes a new object and since the ability was not involved in that and is not covered by one of the exceptions in 400.7, it loses track of it. Besides, the problem that this rule is trying to solve would still exist if you tried to do what you're proposing: what happens if the spell resolves (moves to the graveyard), then gets exiled from the graveyard, then gets put back into the graveyard again all before the delayed trigger can trigger? Should it still be able to affect it?
It seems the exceptions under 400.7 do cover Savage Summoning, but don't cover instants or sorceries. I don't see the problem with your temporary exile example, however. To me, it is quite clear what the fundamental difference between those two cases is. Permanent spells go to the battlefield when they resolve, and they can be tracked respectively effects continue to apply. You can write "When target permanent spell enters the battlefield, do stuff" and it wouldn't trigger if it was countered, then returned to the battlefield from the graveyard. In the same way, instants and sorceries go to the graveyard when they resolve, and you can apply the same logic.
Since this exception doesn't exist though, the most reasonable fix would be to write "Whenever an instant or sorcery spell is put into an opponent's graveyard after resolving" or just add the exception under 400.7 for your set, because yolo.
My comments in BLUE
Boundless Summoning XG
Instant {R}
If its your turn and an opponent has cast a spell this turn, double the value of X.
Look at the top X cards of your library. You may put a creature card with converted mana cost X or less from among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
Is doubling the value of X like this ok? I can't seem to find any examples of cards that do this so I'm not sure about the wording.
Bounty of Spring 4GG
Sorcery {R}
Choose land or nonland and reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card of the chosen kind. Put that card into your hand and put all other cards revealed this way onto the bottom of your library in any order. Repeat this process for each creature you control.
Will this correctly repeat the effect or do I have to word it differently?
Master Spelltrader 2U
Creature - Human Wizard {R}
Whenever an opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell you may exile that card at the end of turn.
X,T: Copy a card exiled with ~ with converted mana cost X or less. Cast the copy without paying its mana cost.
2/3
Does the exile work correctly here? Is there an easy way to make it exile when it finishes resolving and goes into the graveyard rather than waiting until end of turn? Is there a good way to make sorceries cast using the ability only available at sorcery speed?
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
It works because it refers to "that card", so the card in the graveyard (I don't know if the graveyard has to be specified or "that card" is sufficient). Effects such as Cloudshift, Otherworldly Journey or Mimic Vat all work the same way; the first and second effect refer to a different object, but a creature is represented by a card, and that card is the same object in every zone. Same goes for instants and sorceries.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
To get that one to work it might have to go as far as "Whenever an instant or sorcery controlled by an opponent resolves, if that card was put into a graveyard, you may exile it at the beginning of the next end step." However, I get the feeling that probably still doesn't work.
EDIT: Is there any special reason you're waiting until the end of the turn? You could make it work like Mimic Vat instead.
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
Then a better example would be Savage Summoning. It acts upon three different objects.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
Yes but that means I would have to spell out the effect twice wouldn't I?
Which takes up huge amounts of room on the card.
If you can provide a cleaner wording then I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Good thats perfectly what I want then.
How can I make an all instant and sorcery spells played by an opponent become exiled instead of going into the graveyard?
Is it possible to do this in a way that doesn't allow the player to respond to use the spells in response.
Eg: i don't want an opponent to cast a counterspell and then me use that same counterspell to counter them.
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
Add "exile from the graveyard" and the card will expect the object to be in the graveyard as the delayed triggered ability triggers.
It refers the creature you cast with Savage Summoning.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!
"Whenever an instant or sorcery spell is put into an opponent's graveyard from the stack, you may exile that card at the beginning of the next end step."
Awkward that you have to reference the stack, but that is the zone it's coming from. This for sure works.
"Whenever an instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls resolves, you may exile that card at the beginning of the next end step."
Does this work? Could add "...resolves and is put into the graveyard, ..." if you want it to be more specific.
Perhaps a better fix is just to have it exile any instant or sorcery when it hits the graveyard for any reason? Obviously better (particularly with mill), but I don't think it really pushes the card over the top.
It seems the exceptions under 400.7 do cover Savage Summoning, but don't cover instants or sorceries. I don't see the problem with your temporary exile example, however. To me, it is quite clear what the fundamental difference between those two cases is. Permanent spells go to the battlefield when they resolve, and they can be tracked respectively effects continue to apply. You can write "When target permanent spell enters the battlefield, do stuff" and it wouldn't trigger if it was countered, then returned to the battlefield from the graveyard. In the same way, instants and sorceries go to the graveyard when they resolve, and you can apply the same logic.
Since this exception doesn't exist though, the most reasonable fix would be to write "Whenever an instant or sorcery spell is put into an opponent's graveyard after resolving" or just add the exception under 400.7 for your set, because yolo.
Completed sets:
Iamur — The Underwater Set
Overworld — Pirates vs. Octopuses
Esparand — The Sands of Time
Unfinished Sets:
Siege of Ravnica — Eldrazi in Ravnica
Shandalar — The Mana Set
Iamur Reimagined — Iamur v2
You can find more creative projects on my page Antaresdesigns!