- Serious color bleed in dealing with enchantments already onto the battlefield - shared weakness of both Black and Red. Without white or green, this becomes another problematic Chaos Warp. Three cards come to mind that can deal with all permanents, specifically Maelstrom Pulse, Vindicate and Utter End (and they either feature green or white). I guess with respect to Nicol Bolas this is justified by the fact that (1) He is a planeswalker and (2) The mana cost is really serious
And it would appear congratulations are in order for Piar for the June CCL!
A little disappointed that nobody seemed to pick up on a few flavor elements of my card, such as not being able to kill Ugin (I'm also still not entirely sure Piar's card actually works rules wise )
I was under the impression that the cards designed were supposed to be for a limited environment? Because I'm getting ***** upon. I thought my card is sideboard at best.
Some flavour text would have been nice. Also, the activated ability could have been just W. Otherwise, it's okay.
glurman
This card is so close to Reverence. With this in mind, even though it only affects small creatures. I think this should be at least an uncommon. And the wording should be similar to Ghostly Prison.
bravelion83
First, I think it should be a sorcery. Also, it may be a bit complex for a common, so it should be uncommon.
Ryder052
My only complaint is that it should be just "Tap target creature you don't control." Other than that, it's okay.
Rithaniel
While I like the idea of tapping other creature with this, I'd rather play Claustrophobia, since it tap the enchanted creature. The idea of paying seven mana to keep a creature tapped is a bit much.
Moss - You are quite correct, both Reverence and Ghostly Prison are where I drew inspiration from. That being said, yes, slops on me for not using the text on prison, but I think being able to pay 1 to get around the Reverence ability makes this card WAY worse. Caveats, and all that.
netn10: Very good at stopping aggro, but 0 power is good to not make it broken. Fair card, the added utility is nice, if a little costly. glurman: Good at stemming aggro, but I don't think this is a good common. It's not just power or complexity (although the latter is a little concerning), the biggest thing is if you get multiple in limited you've got some serious anti-aggro going on. Bravelion83: Depending on the format, this could range from very powerful to mediocre. At 3 mana, I think it should be alright except for at its top end (in Innistrad, basically), so perhaps it could be more color-intensive. Flavour is kind of weird considering Innistrad's sun doesn't actually do anything. Ryder052: "What" Wizard? This is pretty potent, especially with clash's built in Scry 1, and I feel like it would get annoying fast having to clash constantly. Perhaps add a mana cost on the active. Rithaniel: This has to be the weakest Claustrophobia I've ever seen, and at 3 mana, it's not going to do a lot of work stopping aggro decks. Er, wait, I've misread. Now it's a little on the good end for a common Claustrophobia, but it still isn't stopping aggro.
Ninja - In limited, multiples of this card are STILL WORSE THAN A SINGLE GHOSTLY PRISON. I don't know how you draft, but my card is not at all a high pick.
@Glurman - Speaking as a bystander, your card is uncommon when it comes to complexity - it messes the combat math too much to be a common, regardless of power. Second, Ghostly Prison from what I gather is now considered too powerful for any limited environment, and is very unlikely to be reprinted as is any time soon. I'm not sure I'm as worried about multiples, but having this card as a common won't just kill aggro builds, it will also severely hurt token builds and builds that rely on small evasive creatures - all limited staples. I think if you want to print this at common, an activation cost would be preferable, like in Whipgrass Entangler
Let's start with the color pie: Yes blue gets to lower cards' thoughness, but there is only one card that let's you target a creature to move it's power into toughness and pacify it (Belbe's Armor).
Your card lowers power, not toughness. If it were +0/+X I'd have no problems with it being white, and actually I'd say that it should be white in that case, but -X/+X is blue in the color pie, as -X/-0 is.
The flavor is that the music pacifies warriors to go from fighting to defending - that's as white as white can get.
I understood that perfectly.
Just because it's a relatively new effect, doesn't mean it has no room in a color's philosophy. But by all means, if you think this card is blue, please find me one blue card with a similar effect.
It's not a philosophy concern, philosophically speaking that card is white. It's a mechanical concern, mechanically it's not white but blue. I will do some research and come back to you with some results. And anyway, -X/+X is hardly a new effect.
The first is very old and silly anyway, the second is an uncard, the third is WU gold so it's part white but also part blue and as old as the first anyway (and also on the reserved list), so the only real precedent here is the last one that is blue.
Conclusions
The -N/+N effect is clearly primary in blue, and if one wants to find a secondary color it would be green. The only white card existing with such an effect is also blue and from a very long time ago (Visions), so it can't certainly be considered a precedent for modern Magic design.
I also have no clue which part of the flavor text is green. There's nothing there about nature, or anything else that screams green, and even if there was, so what?
Here we're talking philosophy instead. The philosophy of acceptance of something as it is, is clearly green. If you follow MaRo's articles and blog you can see it. Green philosophy is actually the most misunderstood according to him, it's not just about growth and nature. Green wants "acceptance (of the world as it is) through harmony" to quote his last color articles, and that's broader than just growth and nature.
Anyway, notice I also mentioned it still can work in white, even if to me (please notice: to me, it's a subjective thing) it gives more of a green feeling than a white one.
Since when does flavor text affect the designated color of the card? If it was, I guess Innistrad woulds have been 75% black.
Flavor text does not determine a card's color, but the color philosophy should be kept into account when writing it. We're reversing cause and effect here.
But what really got to me was you analysis of the card's effect: I've seen your designs, and I know you know how the game works,
Thanks for saying this. It's not a given.
so I'm kinda puzzled that you think the only way the card can interact with the vampires is by using the ability on one of them. It can still block the lacerator AND pacify the interloper. Maybe it's really subtle, but it is there.
I didn't consider blocking in my critiques that much because if you're basing on that than most creatures are good against the Lacerator, any bigger creature is. I was just looking for some more significant answer, in the sense of one more tailored specifically on the two Vampires. I was looking for a card that was very good against those two cards but mediocre or not so useful in general. Creatures blocking don't exactly fit that. That was my interpretation of the challenge, and that's what I was trying to do with my card by the way, if I got it wrong it's my fault, but that's the way I understood it.
No need to change your critique, just wanted to get this of my chest.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
@Glurman - Speaking as a bystander, your card is uncommon when it comes to complexity - it messes the combat math too much to be a common, regardless of power. Second, Ghostly Prison from what I gather is now considered too powerful for any limited environment, and is very unlikely to be reprinted as is any time soon. I'm not sure I'm as worried about multiples, but having this card as a common won't just kill aggro builds, it will also severely hurt token builds and builds that rely on small evasive creatures - all limited staples. I think if you want to print this at common, an activation cost would be preferable, like in Whipgrass Entangler
Couple points:
1) I hate the idea of complexity being something to take into consideration. This isn't a core set, and people aren't idiots. If it's super complex, sure, make it a rare. But I want to give people at least a little credit.
2) This doesn't affect combat math. It affects how/which creatures you attack with, which is a core element of gameplay already.
3) Yes, this will hurt tokens as well. I'm not against strong commons. Don't like the idea of weakening my card on purpose just so it's "a common". This is something that a lot of people do and I don't agree with it.
4) Never heard that about Ghostly Prison.
1) I hate the idea of complexity being something to take into consideration. This isn't a core set, and people aren't idiots. If it's super complex, sure, make it a rare. But I want to give people at least a little credit.
When it comes to designing commons complexity is one of the largest considerations to take into account. Also I think the critiquers have been fair to say that your card could never be common due to its power and unfun gameplay in multiples. Do you want to play an environment where any aggro plan is locked out of the game every time you play against white?
Designing commons isn't easy. Take a look at the NWO primer linked in my signature for some complexity traps to so you can improve for next time.
Do you want to play an environment where any aggro plan is locked out of the game every time you play against white?
Um... yes? The restrictions on my card make it very good against swarm strategies, but anything that has power greater than 3 is completely unaffected. I feel like there are a lot of assumptions going around, like that tokens are a thing in the set (unknown), the only aggressive strategy is restricted to small creatures (while a decent rule of thumb, not necessarily true), and that people are actually going to play this card, in multiples no less (I wouldn't consider maindecking it unless there was potential for multiple vamp players in my pod, which would be an absurd push for vampires in a set).
Maybe a more to-the-point question isn't about what you want, but rather: Do you think that would be a pleasing, fun, well-rounded Limited environment for all players?
Maybe a more to-the-point question isn't about what you want, but rather: Do you think that would be a pleasing, fun, well-rounded Limited environment for all players?
Your card lowers power, not toughness. If it were +0/+X I'd have no problems with it being white, and actually I'd say that it should be white in that case, but -X/+X is blue in the color pie, as -X/-0 is.
It's not a philosophy concern, philosophically speaking that card is white. It's a mechanical concern, mechanically it's not white but blue. I will do some research and come back to you with some results. And anyway, -X/+X is hardly a new effect.
The first is very old and silly anyway, the second is an uncard, the third is WU gold so it's part white but also part blue and as old as the first anyway (and also on the reserved list), so the only real precedent here is the last one that is blue.
Conclusions
The -N/+N effect is clearly primary in blue, and if one wants to find a secondary color it would be green. The only white card existing with such an effect is also blue and from a very long time ago (Visions), so it can't certainly be considered a precedent for modern Magic design.
Please note the difference between having -N/+N as a creature ability as opposed to a targeted ability. Saying my card should be blue because of Morphling is like saying Gather Courage should be black because of Zof Shade. Defensive Stance and Shaper Parasite can indeed target, but they are both limited in scope and more about toughness boosting that stopping a creature from dealing damage. Plus the parasite is from Planar Chaos, during the color pie solar eclipse, so... Belbe's Armor is the only card whose effect is comparable to my card, and since the affect is essentially about damage prevention, I see no reason why it shouldn't be acceptable in white.
Here we're talking philosophy instead. The philosophy of acceptance of something as it is, is clearly green. If you follow MaRo's articles and blog you can see it. Green philosophy is actually the most misunderstood according to him, it's not just about growth and nature. Green wants "acceptance (of the world as it is) through harmony" to quote his last color articles, and that's broader than just growth and nature.
Anyway, notice I also mentioned it still can work in white, even if to me (please notice: to me, it's a subjective thing) it gives more of a green feeling than a white one.
For the sake of our sanity, I'm not going to argue about color philosophy here. Let's just agree to disagree.
I didn't consider blocking in my critiques that much because if you're basing on that than most creatures are good against the Lacerator, any bigger creature is. I was just looking for some more significant answer, in the sense of one more tailored specifically on the two Vampires. I was looking for a card that was very good against those two cards but mediocre or not so useful in general. Creatures blocking don't exactly fit that. That was my interpretation of the challenge, and that's what I was trying to do with my card by the way, if I got it wrong it's my fault, but that's the way I understood it.
I guess anyone can interpret the challenge as they see fit, but I don't quite follow you're reasoning here. Say I'd made a card that puts two 0/3 tokens with defender and flying for 1W - would that not qualify as stopping a vampire aggro deck (aside from being broken)? Not any creature is good against the Lacerator, it needs to come in early enough and you're losing an attacker if you're trying to hold it off. Also, limited environments tend to ignore cards that are only good against one archetype, even as a sideboard option. Strip Bare was pretty good against the White/X type in triple Shadowmoore and to my knowledge no one ever ever played it.
Please note the difference between having -N/+N as a creature ability as opposed to a targeted ability. (...)
Here's the point, I don't see that difference. If a color can modify P/T in a certain way, it is still that color that applies that same modifier in other ways too.
For the sake of our sanity, I'm not going to argue about color philosophy here. Let's just agree to disagree.
I agree!
I guess anyone can interpret the challenge as they see fit, but I don't quite follow you're reasoning here. Say I'd made a card that puts two 0/3 tokens with defender and flying for 1W - would that not qualify as stopping a vampire aggro deck (aside from being broken)? (...)
Yes, I see that but I was thinking we were looking for something specific against those two cards. As I said, I may have misunderstood the challenge, and if that's the case it's my fault and I apologize.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
I'm putting up the next challenge shortly, however I won't be calculating the scores until later this week as the pre-release sucked up all my spare time.
Thanks for your patience.
How have people found the challenges this month? Always happy for feedback so I can make better ones next time.
In the first one, I just didn't understand if we were supposed to make cards specifically against the two Vampires or just generic cards that happen to be usable against them. Specifically, I didn't consider just being able to block them as a valid interaction because blocking is just going to work against any creature, not specifically the two Vampires. If you've read the discussion between me and Asrama, it mostly gets down to this.
The second one was perfect as it is in my opinion.
The third one also looks clear enough, even if fun is a subjective concept. I'll just interpret it the way we're currently doing in the MCC, that is the card does not create experiences that are known to be unfun on either side of the table.
Also, for round 2 critiques, do we really critique the same teams as round 1?
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
[quote from="bravelion83 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/custom-card-contests-and-games/616550-july-ccl-round-2-uncommon-guidance?comment=39"]Do we really critique the same teams as round 1?
holder for critiques
No, he changed our group in a thread comment.
Oh, now I see it. Thank you.
@Doombringer: it doesn't change anything for me now, but I think it would be clearer if you also updated round 2's OP with the updated list. It would avoid having other poeple get confused too and do the wrong critiques.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Clarifying for round 3: When you say fun for the opponent, do you mean the way R&D usually mean it-> It doesn't ruin your opponent's experience and make them instantly want to concede the game. Or do you mean the opponent is actually happy to get this rare cast against them because its so fun?
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Clarifying for round 3: When you say fun for the opponent, do you mean the way R&D usually mean it-> It doesn't ruin your opponent's experience and make them instantly want to concede the game. Or do you mean the opponent is actually happy to get this rare cast against them because its so fun?
I mean in the way R&D speaks about it from the opponent's perspective in that it isn't hugely un-interactive (Invisible Stalker with Butcher's Cleaver), unbeatably powerful in limited (Citadel Siege or Pack Rat) or create horrible play experiences (Mass Land Destruction).
Making a card that is fun to play against is a bonus but difficult to design and more importantly difficult to playtest for this challenge.
First of all, you can't use someone else's graveyard as part of a cost. It should be "2B: Exile three cards from a single graveyard. Put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield."
How have people found the challenges this month? Always happy for feedback so I can make better ones next time.
In the first one, I just didn't understand if we were supposed to make cards specifically against the two Vampires or just generic cards that happen to be usable against them. Specifically, I didn't consider just being able to block them as a valid interaction because blocking is just going to work against any creature, not specifically the two Vampires. If you've read the discussion between me and Asrama, it mostly gets down to this.
Same here, it seems as if some believe the common had to completely shut down the 2 black commons, as opposed to just being able to help overcome a fast start.
Same here, it seems as if some believe the common had to completely shut down the 2 black commons, as opposed to just being able to help overcome a fast start.
In fact that was exactly how I interpreted it myself, and why I came up with a card specifically able to exile creatures but only if they're Vampires (or Zombies, for flavor). Other people critiqued the card from the other point of view and didn't like it. It's true that it's a potential two-for-one at common, and as such it would very probably be at least redflagged, but it's so conditional that I think it still may be alright at common. Then, I was criticized for my own critiques where I critiqued generic cards badly because I was looking for something specific. In my opinion, this misunderstanding definitely affected both the submissions and the critiques in that round.
In this round, I'm actually having a lot of trouble coming up with a rare card that I'm certain will not see any Standard play. The Spider lord I've designed is actually just a placeholder in case I'm not able to come up with something better. Despite that misunderstanding in round 1, this third round is the most difficult one of the three to me so far and by far.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
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You seem to have misread some part of my card
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
A little disappointed that nobody seemed to pick up on a few flavor elements of my card, such as not being able to kill Ugin (I'm also still not entirely sure Piar's card actually works rules wise )
Moss - You are quite correct, both Reverence and Ghostly Prison are where I drew inspiration from. That being said, yes, slops on me for not using the text on prison, but I think being able to pay 1 to get around the Reverence ability makes this card WAY worse. Caveats, and all that.
Ninja - In limited, multiples of this card are STILL WORSE THAN A SINGLE GHOSTLY PRISON. I don't know how you draft, but my card is not at all a high pick.
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Your card lowers power, not toughness. If it were +0/+X I'd have no problems with it being white, and actually I'd say that it should be white in that case, but -X/+X is blue in the color pie, as -X/-0 is.
I understood that perfectly.
It's not a philosophy concern, philosophically speaking that card is white. It's a mechanical concern, mechanically it's not white but blue. I will do some research and come back to you with some results. And anyway, -X/+X is hardly a new effect.
-X/+X
Only Belbe's Armor as you mention yourself.
-1/+1
U
Total: 6
G
Total: 3, one of which is very old and another one is actually just a variation on an originally blue card.
R
Total: 1 and it's actually just a variation on an originally blue card.
White has zero.
Black has zero.
-2/+2
The first is very old and silly anyway, the second is an uncard, the third is WU gold so it's part white but also part blue and as old as the first anyway (and also on the reserved list), so the only real precedent here is the last one that is blue.
Greater than -2/+2
I found only Karn, Silver Golem.
Conclusions
The -N/+N effect is clearly primary in blue, and if one wants to find a secondary color it would be green. The only white card existing with such an effect is also blue and from a very long time ago (Visions), so it can't certainly be considered a precedent for modern Magic design.
Here we're talking philosophy instead. The philosophy of acceptance of something as it is, is clearly green. If you follow MaRo's articles and blog you can see it. Green philosophy is actually the most misunderstood according to him, it's not just about growth and nature. Green wants "acceptance (of the world as it is) through harmony" to quote his last color articles, and that's broader than just growth and nature.
Anyway, notice I also mentioned it still can work in white, even if to me (please notice: to me, it's a subjective thing) it gives more of a green feeling than a white one.
Flavor text does not determine a card's color, but the color philosophy should be kept into account when writing it. We're reversing cause and effect here.
Thanks for saying this. It's not a given.
I didn't consider blocking in my critiques that much because if you're basing on that than most creatures are good against the Lacerator, any bigger creature is. I was just looking for some more significant answer, in the sense of one more tailored specifically on the two Vampires. I was looking for a card that was very good against those two cards but mediocre or not so useful in general. Creatures blocking don't exactly fit that. That was my interpretation of the challenge, and that's what I was trying to do with my card by the way, if I got it wrong it's my fault, but that's the way I understood it.
No problem, you're welcome.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Couple points:
1) I hate the idea of complexity being something to take into consideration. This isn't a core set, and people aren't idiots. If it's super complex, sure, make it a rare. But I want to give people at least a little credit.
2) This doesn't affect combat math. It affects how/which creatures you attack with, which is a core element of gameplay already.
3) Yes, this will hurt tokens as well. I'm not against strong commons. Don't like the idea of weakening my card on purpose just so it's "a common". This is something that a lot of people do and I don't agree with it.
4) Never heard that about Ghostly Prison.
Designing commons isn't easy. Take a look at the NWO primer linked in my signature for some complexity traps to so you can improve for next time.
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
Um... yes? The restrictions on my card make it very good against swarm strategies, but anything that has power greater than 3 is completely unaffected. I feel like there are a lot of assumptions going around, like that tokens are a thing in the set (unknown), the only aggressive strategy is restricted to small creatures (while a decent rule of thumb, not necessarily true), and that people are actually going to play this card, in multiples no less (I wouldn't consider maindecking it unless there was potential for multiple vamp players in my pod, which would be an absurd push for vampires in a set).
Probably, yeah.
Please note the difference between having -N/+N as a creature ability as opposed to a targeted ability. Saying my card should be blue because of Morphling is like saying Gather Courage should be black because of Zof Shade. Defensive Stance and Shaper Parasite can indeed target, but they are both limited in scope and more about toughness boosting that stopping a creature from dealing damage. Plus the parasite is from Planar Chaos, during the color pie solar eclipse, so... Belbe's Armor is the only card whose effect is comparable to my card, and since the affect is essentially about damage prevention, I see no reason why it shouldn't be acceptable in white.
For the sake of our sanity, I'm not going to argue about color philosophy here. Let's just agree to disagree.
I guess anyone can interpret the challenge as they see fit, but I don't quite follow you're reasoning here. Say I'd made a card that puts two 0/3 tokens with defender and flying for 1W - would that not qualify as stopping a vampire aggro deck (aside from being broken)? Not any creature is good against the Lacerator, it needs to come in early enough and you're losing an attacker if you're trying to hold it off. Also, limited environments tend to ignore cards that are only good against one archetype, even as a sideboard option. Strip Bare was pretty good against the White/X type in triple Shadowmoore and to my knowledge no one ever ever played it.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
No problem, I'll do that again.
Here's the point, I don't see that difference. If a color can modify P/T in a certain way, it is still that color that applies that same modifier in other ways too.
I agree!
Yes, I see that but I was thinking we were looking for something specific against those two cards. As I said, I may have misunderstood the challenge, and if that's the case it's my fault and I apologize.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Thanks for your patience.
Thanks for letting me know. Hopefully we can see you another time.
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
In the first one, I just didn't understand if we were supposed to make cards specifically against the two Vampires or just generic cards that happen to be usable against them. Specifically, I didn't consider just being able to block them as a valid interaction because blocking is just going to work against any creature, not specifically the two Vampires. If you've read the discussion between me and Asrama, it mostly gets down to this.
The second one was perfect as it is in my opinion.
The third one also looks clear enough, even if fun is a subjective concept. I'll just interpret it the way we're currently doing in the MCC, that is the card does not create experiences that are known to be unfun on either side of the table.
Also, for round 2 critiques, do we really critique the same teams as round 1?
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Oh, now I see it. Thank you.
@Doombringer: it doesn't change anything for me now, but I think it would be clearer if you also updated round 2's OP with the updated list. It would avoid having other poeple get confused too and do the wrong critiques.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
That was a copy-paste error. Fixed.
I mean in the way R&D speaks about it from the opponent's perspective in that it isn't hugely un-interactive (Invisible Stalker with Butcher's Cleaver), unbeatably powerful in limited (Citadel Siege or Pack Rat) or create horrible play experiences (Mass Land Destruction).
Making a card that is fun to play against is a bonus but difficult to design and more importantly difficult to playtest for this challenge.
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
Um, Night Soil begs to differ.
EDIT: so does Thelon of Havenwood
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Same here, it seems as if some believe the common had to completely shut down the 2 black commons, as opposed to just being able to help overcome a fast start.
In fact that was exactly how I interpreted it myself, and why I came up with a card specifically able to exile creatures but only if they're Vampires (or Zombies, for flavor). Other people critiqued the card from the other point of view and didn't like it. It's true that it's a potential two-for-one at common, and as such it would very probably be at least redflagged, but it's so conditional that I think it still may be alright at common. Then, I was criticized for my own critiques where I critiqued generic cards badly because I was looking for something specific. In my opinion, this misunderstanding definitely affected both the submissions and the critiques in that round.
In this round, I'm actually having a lot of trouble coming up with a rare card that I'm certain will not see any Standard play. The Spider lord I've designed is actually just a placeholder in case I'm not able to come up with something better. Despite that misunderstanding in round 1, this third round is the most difficult one of the three to me so far and by far.
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)