In addition, I disagree with your power level assesment on my opponents card. I think it is just as powerful as mine, which was one of the reasons that I decided to make a powerful card (AoK submitted hers earlier than mine). For the same 7 mana, you not only plague wind your opponent but you drain him for 5 at the same time. Or, even without hellbent, you can Hideous laughter the board and drain each player for 2 life, which in a black/red deck means nothing that you hit yourself. If this were printed, it would generate a tournament caliber deck instantly.
Im not saying that my card is better, I am saying that the power levels are extremely similar.
Not quite Plague Wind or Laughter, I'm afraid- protection from black or red saves a creature quite nicely. I agree that the card I made is powerful- but not overpowered. My intent was to make a card that made Hellbent playable, and I think I succeeded.
Plus, there's a card that costs a single white mana from Coldsnap that would hurt half of this card. I can't remember the name of it, though. Luminese or something similar...
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
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This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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Yes mistress...
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There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
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I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Personally, I think AoK's card is overpowered. Ignoring the hellbent ability, for one red mana more you get an Earthquake that hits all creatures. That's reasonable, except that you get the same ability in monoblack, and monoblack shouldn't be getting spells like Earthquake or Pyroclasm. A mana cost of XBR would have been much more balanced and would have made a big difference. This is not a card that should have hybrid mana. With the hellbent ability, it becomes Flame Wave except it is more efficient instead of less; X spells are supposed to be less efficient than their set-number counterparts. See Blaze versus Volcanic Hammer. Hellbent is a significant drawback, yes, but I don't think it's enough to warrant the huge power boost in this case. Especially considering this card really takes much of the risk out of going hellbent by completely wiping out your opponent's creatures (or opponent).
That said, I don't think the card is horribly broken nor is it an automatic pick over Demonfire, it's just over the curve. I will say, though, that the flavor/elegance of the hellbent interaction is brilliant.
I was going to respond, but everyone else said it better.
Actually, I will respond to half of Cottc's post.
I realize that my card looks broken at the outset, but compare what it does. Pick an average casting cost, 3UUU. That will be most of your mana for the turn, so you will not be able to take advantage of the effect. The next turn a fading counter goes away, which means that it is as powerful as Recycle. The turn after that, you are down to 1 card, so it is future sight. The turn before it goes away you have no cards revealed, so you can play nothing. During this time you have no hand (it was shuffled in) and you don't draw cards (even through card drawing spells), so on the turn it goes away you are left with nothing. At 7 mana and above it is more powerful, but at that point shouldnt you be having powerful game ending effects?
You're thinking too small. The idea is to win before the last fade counter goes off. What decks can do that? Affinity, Storm, Heartbeat, Just about any Vintage deck (which can play this turn 1, then proceed to play their entire deck, GG.) Most aggro decks, etc. Once you play this card, if you untap, you win. Especially if it's the same turn. You don't need another turn if your deck is built for it (and why wouldn't it be?)
Oh well, I guess we will just have to disagree on power levels. I don't play vintage, but it doesn't seem to me that discarding your hand is worth dropping the casting cost of future sight by one. Wouldnt you have to get a black lotus to even be able to play it at UUU?
I wont disagree with the power level of AoKs card, as everyone seems to think I am incorrect. I am about anit-spike as you can get, so I see card value differently than good people.
I can't say i'm not disappointed, but at the very least... yeah i'll get over it, but I'd like argue and comment on a few points.
That part with the "non-black creature, non-artifact creature" was originally non-black only, and for some stupid reason, my eye keeps jumping over obvious mistakes, so i didn't notice it after adding "non-artifact creature" as well. I really looked through the card and it looked pretty good. I was actually expecting to lose something on "creature's owner's graveyard" part.
As for the name, I guess it was refering to the reanimation part, and to the "living colors"; white,blue,red,green; hence the "non-black, non-artifact" part. As we know, the undead don't belong on Earth, and the non-living don't have a soul to begin with and therefore are not earthbound, but of course, this is my crazy logic at work.
The flavortext appeared more white than black, like a religious, holy type thing, but as we know, the Cabal were some evil clerics, and it appeared alright. It could be spoken in a more sadistic tone, like a dark promise, to represent the rebirth of the less sadistic and more *alive* colors.
As for the art, to me, it appears as though the creature is rising up from the ground, and could represent some dead ogre or warrior. As you may know, it's hard to look your best when you just died and then suddenly came back.
Of course there is much contridiction when the card is viewed as whole, but that's what happens when I can't find a half decent quote, and basically finish the card the night it's due. I actually had a few possible quotes ready, but finding art that fit, a mechanic and a title that pulled it all together was quite troublesome to say the least.
Not to mention the round requirement was somewhat obscure and led to a few disgreements amoung players and judges, but overall, a round that was well worth the challenge.
Thanks for your judging Kraj, and good luck Tapper. I knew I was in trouble when you had a good looking card within the first few days. Don't lose next round, or else!!
*GPM waits 17 days*
'Til next month's FCC, lets hope I can challenge you again!
I'm not here to point out whose is not allowed , but I have seen 1 which certainly is not.
I assume you are talking about mine.
In all due respect, like AoC said, the script of the game is like "book", in which someone writes it. If you want me to get the script writer ill be fine to change it. The definition of Real-World Quote is vague. I interpreted it as one that is not fictionalized by the creator of the card, like something quoting some goblin mage or the like.
If you really want some writer as the speaker, choose:
Writing credits (in alphabetical order)
Jun Akiyama scenario
Keiko Nobumoto scenario supervisor
Kazushige Nojima scenario
Daisuke Watanabe scenario
Tell me if I'm wrong, but don't some video games have some of the best quotes of all time? Final Fantasy VII had some of the best quotes in my opinion, even better than some of that Shakespeare everyone rambles on about. I find it unfair that those of us with the VG quotes be discriminated against because they are assumed to not be "Real-World" quotes.
And if a realworld quote means it has to come from a real person, doesnt that mean i can quote my next door neighbor? I wouldn't do it except to prove a point. I know it wouldn't be excepted, for it could be seen as just something i made up. But a quote from a VG is NOT made up by me. Its made up by those nice 4 people who did a wonderful job with the script for a game. If they aren't real people in your eyes, im highly confused.
If they aren't real people in your eyes, im highly confused.
Well, if Bel was talking about your entry, I would have to agree with him. First of all, I will be the first to agree that lines in Final Fantasy VII were great quotes. But if you'd refer to them as "real-world" quotes because real people made them, then I am confused myself and must question you: what are not "real-world" quotes then?
rules clarification: don't you have to pay all costs for a spell before putting it on the stack? Raia, how does my card let you play the only card left in your hand? You could only add the mana after the spell is on the stack, right?
edit: design note: this isn't really an LED variant. LED forces you to discard your hand. This doesn't allow you to, and rather only works if that condition has already been met. I took the idea from Fool's Tome.
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Quote from SqueektheWeek »
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
Alacar - It's not really time to worry until 48 hours have passed and the judge still hasn't shown. It hasn't even been 36, so don't worry yet. (Remember, judges are people too, and often have other things to deal with.)
rules clarification: don't you have to pay all costs for a spell before putting it on the stack? Raia, how does my card let you play the only card left in your hand? You could only add the mana after the spell is on the stack, right?
edit: design note: this isn't really an LED variant. LED forces you to discard your hand. This doesn't allow you to, and rather only works if that condition has already been met. I took the idea from Fool's Tome.
What Raia means is that if you have two cards in hand, you must get rid of one before you can cast the other. You do so by declaring your intention to cast the last card in your hand, then you pay the mana cost and any other costs. You can only use Fool's Mox at this time.
In a way, this is a 'LED' variant because if you wanted to cast a spell with mana from a LED you would declare your intention to cast a spell, then discard the rest of your hand to LED.
rules clarification: don't you have to pay all costs for a spell before putting it on the stack? Raia, how does my card let you play the only card left in your hand? You could only add the mana after the spell is on the stack, right?
Actually no, you announce a spell, place it on the stack, then pay costs, so unless you have "play this ability only any time you could play an instant" ala Lion's Eye Diamond or Charmed Pendant you could use it to pay for the last card in your hand.
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wow... didn't know that. that's weird. so if you announce your spell, but couldn't pay the costs, it's countered? Or are you forced to pay the costs if you ever declare a spell?
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Quote from SqueektheWeek »
i think this card is Freakin' awesome just imagine zoo with this even on the draw u flex "Nutz" any mana drawing the extra card u can pitch and turning up the gas on tempo and it still taps for mana easily a 3 of most likely a 4 of
wow... didn't know that. that's weird. so if you announce your spell, but couldn't pay the costs, it's countered? Or are you forced to pay the costs if you ever declare a spell?
The game rewinds, the card goes back to your hand and any costs you tried to pay are returned to how they were.
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Well, if Bel was talking about your entry, I would have to agree with him. First of all, I will be the first to agree that lines in Final Fantasy VII were great quotes. But if you'd refer to them as "real-world" quotes because real people made them, then I am confused myself and must question you: what are not "real-world" quotes then?
Not realworld quotes are what I stated before: quotes that are made up by the author of the card. I can't just make a quote like "IKKI WAKKA LOO LOO!!" - Goblin Mage and expect that to be a real world quote, because no one knows where the hell it came from. (If that is in a book or a game that one of you has read or played, then im sorry if I have offended you :p)
On the lines of what ARE real-world quotes, mind you, are the quotes done by people (aristotle, george bush, all that good stuff), from literature (shakespeare, poe), movies, and VG's.
Ill continue later since i have to leave to take care of the nephew.
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Uncle [T]utor of the [T]'s Winner of Weekly Contest 46!
As a participant in the FCC and card creator, it is your responsibility to meet the requirements of the round but it is the judge's discretion as to whether or not you do. Therefore, if you have any doubt or concern about whether your creation meets the requirement, you must get clarification. That goes for all players in all rounds.
Usually the round requirements are fairly obvious to determine, but recent rounds have been more ambiguous. Communicating with your judge or Moss_Elemental is an obvious solution. Arguing about it after the fact is not.
....
Personally, I think Bel's reaction was a bit harsh considering how many participants expressed confusion over the boundaries of the round requirements. I will say, though, that as a judge I have found it tiring how often people will stretch the round requirements as far as possible to avoid Moss_Elemental's intention and instead do whatever they want to do. I really can't say whether that's what you were trying to do, Yusuke, but if Bel's reaction is a backlash against this trend then I support him.
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I know this can sound spam, but I really need to say it: Even being defeated by honorable Cantripmancer, I'm particulary happy with my result. After all, I'VE DEFEATED JESUS.
The only thing I will say about my card's judging is about flavor: your opponent won't destroy the creature because he will be in "presence of elegance" (because it is enchanting it). I struggled to find an art that fit the name (Drew Baker's Legend of the Five Rings art is awesome, btw), as well as a quote — what if your opponent finds Elegance itself? He would need to be elegant in his acts. Which means, allowing you to draw the card. But nothing about scoring change, just pointing it.
Well, this post wasn't supposed to be about my score. Just about saying how I'm cool at defeating Jesus. I just added the second thing to keep this from becoming pure spam.
I admit it was harsh , but I did put up a warning that I would be doing that.
I think it was an interesting round but as Kraj said I tire of people stretching the round objective beyond belief.
I will gladly judge both cards but the decision stands unless Moss says otherwise
I love FF series, but if i made a card with navi the fairy as my quote going "hey listen ! " people would not see it as a real world quote.
And I agree. Im not gonna go make a card called Ars Arcanum and have the Flavor text be "Power!" - Sora, Kingdom Hearts. I agree that to a point some quotes from games would seem pretty ridiculous on a card.
I'm not doing this to "stretch" the guidelines any further than they were already widely placed. In fact, I had a card quoting Aristotle as my first one. However, the card was utter crap, and I knew that it wouldn't win. The wording was confusing, and it ended up being way to overcosted. Too many things on a card can get VERY confusing (see Chains of Mephistopheles), so I resorted to the simpler outcome of Spiteful Thoughts.
Also, I had finished my card 2 days before your warning, which was 10 hours before the deadline! Sorry if I like to take time in my work, but even if I had seen the warning in time, there would have been no way for me to make a decent card! Or at least a card I could take pride in and get art for! That art took me about 5 hours to find with the help of Spangle at the end. I was not about to waste my time trying to find another one. When we found we were like "Sweet lets go".
So now we wait on Moss. I guess thats all we can do. And like Zyrakris I would like to see my card judged even tho mine got "dqed".
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Uncle [T]utor of the [T]'s Winner of Weekly Contest 46!
I admit it was harsh , but I did put up a warning that I would be doing that.
I was originally going to point that out until I realized that your warning came less than a day before the deadline. (I even went as far as to check if Yusuke had made any posts between the time your warning came and the contest deadline, which he hadn't.) Like I said before the burden is not on you but I think you'll agree it is a little unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to repsond to your warning within the amount of time left.
I mean, and someone correct me if I’,m wrong, in Standard, the only cards that can take advantage of this are, umm, Sinstriker’s Will and Stalking Vengeance, neither of which really can break this thing open.
Greater Good springs to mind.
I don't know how I missed this one before, but damn do I love it. Yeah, it'd probably end up as a crap rare but Johnnies everywhere would be drooling puddles the size of the Atlantic over this. Immensely creative, perfectly flavored for blue, well-balanced and well-thought. Even the art was cleverly altered to fit the concept. (The original artist was Michael Whelan, btw.)
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Not quite Plague Wind or Laughter, I'm afraid- protection from black or red saves a creature quite nicely. I agree that the card I made is powerful- but not overpowered. My intent was to make a card that made Hellbent playable, and I think I succeeded.
Plus, there's a card that costs a single white mana from Coldsnap that would hurt half of this card. I can't remember the name of it, though. Luminese or something similar...
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
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[/card] if you were really desperate...
That said, I don't think the card is horribly broken nor is it an automatic pick over Demonfire, it's just over the curve. I will say, though, that the flavor/elegance of the hellbent interaction is brilliant.
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Actually, I will respond to half of Cottc's post.
You're thinking too small. The idea is to win before the last fade counter goes off. What decks can do that? Affinity, Storm, Heartbeat, Just about any Vintage deck (which can play this turn 1, then proceed to play their entire deck, GG.) Most aggro decks, etc. Once you play this card, if you untap, you win. Especially if it's the same turn. You don't need another turn if your deck is built for it (and why wouldn't it be?)
Sorry, but the card is buh-husted.
I wont disagree with the power level of AoKs card, as everyone seems to think I am incorrect. I am about anit-spike as you can get, so I see card value differently than good people.
That part with the "non-black creature, non-artifact creature" was originally non-black only, and for some stupid reason, my eye keeps jumping over obvious mistakes, so i didn't notice it after adding "non-artifact creature" as well. I really looked through the card and it looked pretty good. I was actually expecting to lose something on "creature's owner's graveyard" part.
As for the name, I guess it was refering to the reanimation part, and to the "living colors"; white,blue,red,green; hence the "non-black, non-artifact" part. As we know, the undead don't belong on Earth, and the non-living don't have a soul to begin with and therefore are not earthbound, but of course, this is my crazy logic at work.
The flavortext appeared more white than black, like a religious, holy type thing, but as we know, the Cabal were some evil clerics, and it appeared alright. It could be spoken in a more sadistic tone, like a dark promise, to represent the rebirth of the less sadistic and more *alive* colors.
As for the art, to me, it appears as though the creature is rising up from the ground, and could represent some dead ogre or warrior. As you may know, it's hard to look your best when you just died and then suddenly came back.
Of course there is much contridiction when the card is viewed as whole, but that's what happens when I can't find a half decent quote, and basically finish the card the night it's due. I actually had a few possible quotes ready, but finding art that fit, a mechanic and a title that pulled it all together was quite troublesome to say the least.
Not to mention the round requirement was somewhat obscure and led to a few disgreements amoung players and judges, but overall, a round that was well worth the challenge.
Thanks for your judging Kraj, and good luck Tapper. I knew I was in trouble when you had a good looking card within the first few days. Don't lose next round, or else!!
*GPM waits 17 days*
'Til next month's FCC, lets hope I can challenge you again!
I assume you are talking about mine.
In all due respect, like AoC said, the script of the game is like "book", in which someone writes it. If you want me to get the script writer ill be fine to change it. The definition of Real-World Quote is vague. I interpreted it as one that is not fictionalized by the creator of the card, like something quoting some goblin mage or the like.
If you really want some writer as the speaker, choose:
Writing credits (in alphabetical order)
Jun Akiyama scenario
Keiko Nobumoto scenario supervisor
Kazushige Nojima scenario
Daisuke Watanabe scenario
Tell me if I'm wrong, but don't some video games have some of the best quotes of all time? Final Fantasy VII had some of the best quotes in my opinion, even better than some of that Shakespeare everyone rambles on about. I find it unfair that those of us with the VG quotes be discriminated against because they are assumed to not be "Real-World" quotes.
And if a realworld quote means it has to come from a real person, doesnt that mean i can quote my next door neighbor? I wouldn't do it except to prove a point. I know it wouldn't be excepted, for it could be seen as just something i made up. But a quote from a VG is NOT made up by me. Its made up by those nice 4 people who did a wonderful job with the script for a game. If they aren't real people in your eyes, im highly confused.
Winner of Weekly Contest 46!
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Well, if Bel was talking about your entry, I would have to agree with him. First of all, I will be the first to agree that lines in Final Fantasy VII were great quotes. But if you'd refer to them as "real-world" quotes because real people made them, then I am confused myself and must question you: what are not "real-world" quotes then?
edit: design note: this isn't really an LED variant. LED forces you to discard your hand. This doesn't allow you to, and rather only works if that condition has already been met. I took the idea from Fool's Tome.
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Think.
What Raia means is that if you have two cards in hand, you must get rid of one before you can cast the other. You do so by declaring your intention to cast the last card in your hand, then you pay the mana cost and any other costs. You can only use Fool's Mox at this time.
In a way, this is a 'LED' variant because if you wanted to cast a spell with mana from a LED you would declare your intention to cast a spell, then discard the rest of your hand to LED.
Actually no, you announce a spell, place it on the stack, then pay costs, so unless you have "play this ability only any time you could play an instant" ala Lion's Eye Diamond or Charmed Pendant you could use it to pay for the last card in your hand.
Melee Demigod. [FNM] Draft Addict _ Trade Me!
The game rewinds, the card goes back to your hand and any costs you tried to pay are returned to how they were.
Not realworld quotes are what I stated before: quotes that are made up by the author of the card. I can't just make a quote like "IKKI WAKKA LOO LOO!!" - Goblin Mage and expect that to be a real world quote, because no one knows where the hell it came from. (If that is in a book or a game that one of you has read or played, then im sorry if I have offended you :p)
On the lines of what ARE real-world quotes, mind you, are the quotes done by people (aristotle, george bush, all that good stuff), from literature (shakespeare, poe), movies, and VG's.
Ill continue later since i have to leave to take care of the nephew.
Winner of Weekly Contest 46!
As a participant in the FCC and card creator, it is your responsibility to meet the requirements of the round but it is the judge's discretion as to whether or not you do. Therefore, if you have any doubt or concern about whether your creation meets the requirement, you must get clarification. That goes for all players in all rounds.
Usually the round requirements are fairly obvious to determine, but recent rounds have been more ambiguous. Communicating with your judge or Moss_Elemental is an obvious solution. Arguing about it after the fact is not.
....
Personally, I think Bel's reaction was a bit harsh considering how many participants expressed confusion over the boundaries of the round requirements. I will say, though, that as a judge I have found it tiring how often people will stretch the round requirements as far as possible to avoid Moss_Elemental's intention and instead do whatever they want to do. I really can't say whether that's what you were trying to do, Yusuke, but if Bel's reaction is a backlash against this trend then I support him.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Considering that the deadline was 36.5 hours ago...
Always trading for more Kezzerdrixes...drixen...drixii...for more!
"Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm mad but not ill." - . _Werewolf Bridge_, Robert Anton Wilson
CHAMPION of Survivor MTG News vs. MTG Salvation!
WINNER of DC5 #1!
WINNER of Sept. '06 DCC!
Owner of Stax's Soul!
Think.
The only thing I will say about my card's judging is about flavor: your opponent won't destroy the creature because he will be in "presence of elegance" (because it is enchanting it). I struggled to find an art that fit the name (Drew Baker's Legend of the Five Rings art is awesome, btw), as well as a quote — what if your opponent finds Elegance itself? He would need to be elegant in his acts. Which means, allowing you to draw the card. But nothing about scoring change, just pointing it.
Well, this post wasn't supposed to be about my score. Just about saying how I'm cool at defeating Jesus. I just added the second thing to keep this from becoming pure spam.
And I agree. Im not gonna go make a card called Ars Arcanum and have the Flavor text be "Power!" - Sora, Kingdom Hearts. I agree that to a point some quotes from games would seem pretty ridiculous on a card.
I'm not doing this to "stretch" the guidelines any further than they were already widely placed. In fact, I had a card quoting Aristotle as my first one. However, the card was utter crap, and I knew that it wouldn't win. The wording was confusing, and it ended up being way to overcosted. Too many things on a card can get VERY confusing (see Chains of Mephistopheles), so I resorted to the simpler outcome of Spiteful Thoughts.
Also, I had finished my card 2 days before your warning, which was 10 hours before the deadline! Sorry if I like to take time in my work, but even if I had seen the warning in time, there would have been no way for me to make a decent card! Or at least a card I could take pride in and get art for! That art took me about 5 hours to find with the help of Spangle at the end. I was not about to waste my time trying to find another one. When we found we were like "Sweet lets go".
So now we wait on Moss. I guess thats all we can do. And like Zyrakris I would like to see my card judged even tho mine got "dqed".
Winner of Weekly Contest 46!
I was originally going to point that out until I realized that your warning came less than a day before the deadline. (I even went as far as to check if Yusuke had made any posts between the time your warning came and the contest deadline, which he hadn't.) Like I said before the burden is not on you but I think you'll agree it is a little unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to repsond to your warning within the amount of time left.
You're right, but I would have laughed my *** off!
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Any ideas on how it should be worded without becoming abusive in the wrong ways (a la Time Vault)
Greater Good springs to mind.
I don't know how I missed this one before, but damn do I love it. Yeah, it'd probably end up as a crap rare but Johnnies everywhere would be drooling puddles the size of the Atlantic over this. Immensely creative, perfectly flavored for blue, well-balanced and well-thought. Even the art was cleverly altered to fit the concept. (The original artist was Michael Whelan, btw.)
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.