So, six months ago I proposed the keyword Inherit here on the forums. I neglected to ever follow up on that thread. Rather than bump that one, I'm going to propose it again.
Inherit (When you cast a creature spell, you may pay and exile this card from your graveyard. If you do, that creature is this card's heir as long as it remains exiled.)
The inherit ability is always paired with another ability that defines the attributes granted to the heir creature.
So the most basic form of this would be something like:
Town GuardW
Creature - Human Soldier
Town Guard's heir gets +1/+1.
Inherit W
1/1
Design questions I have for this:
Would it be better to put the attribute granting ability below the inherit ability? Especially in the case of creatures that have another ability it might make it clearer what part of the text applies to the card itself and what part goes to the heir. I've initially put Inherit at the bottom in keeping with the other graveyard abilities Scavenge and Flashback, which are always the last thing on the card.
The way I wrote it, I hope to apply the inherit to a creature before it enters the battlefield, so that it has the attributes at all times, and could trigger enters the battlefield effects. Does my phrasing actually work to that effect? If not, how could it be changed to get that effect without being super wordy?
An example of what I might want to do:
Frontier Homesteader1G
Creature - Human Citizen
Inherit 1G
When Frontier Homesteader's heir enters the battlefield, its controller searches his or her library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffles his or her library.
2/2
I expect to put this ability in primarily green and white, secondary in black, and tertiary in blue and red. As a major set mechanic, I would like it to be present in all colors a little bit at least. Does this feel appropriate? Or would putting such an effect into red and blue violate color norms too much? Keep in mind that there's nothing stopping a noncreature from having Inherit.
I feel like the inherit costs should be in line with Kicker, especially for the direct buffs. Since you have to pay to cast a creature in addition to paying for the inherit trigger, I think the costs can be set quite aggressively. Any thoughts on that direction?
And to finish it off, a more outlandish thing to Inherit, and ways to manipulate heirs.
Guardian of Generations4GW
Creature - Spirit [M]
Vigilance, reach
Inherit 1GW
When Guardian of Generations' heir dies, its controller may put Guardian of Generations onto the battlefield under his or her control.
6/6
Abdicate1W
Instant [U]
Choose a nontoken creature you control with Inherit and exile it.
Target creature becomes heir to the chosen card as long as it remains exiled.
Usurper of Title1BB
Creature - Human Assassin Noble [U]
When Usurper of Title enters the battlefield, destroy target creature that's an heir. Usurper of Title becomes heir to all cards that creature was heir to as long as they remain exiled.
2/1
Strip of Inheritance1U
Instant [U]
Target creature is no longer heir to any cards.
Draw a card.
Hall of Ancenstors
Land [R] T: Add C to your mana pool. T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, spend this mana only to pay for Inherit abilities you control. 4, T: Put target exiled card with Inherit into its owner's graveyard if it has no heirs.
Any thoughts in general beyond my questions above? Any additions or changes you would make?
Personally I don't like linked words like this, but it is functional. The way you have worded it accomplishes the goal you wanted. It is a triggered ability that triggers on casting a creature spell and your opponent will know if you plan on paying these cost before they have to counter your creature. The idea is interesting and the cards aren't overpowered.
Only two comments on cards.
Strip of Inheritance, should just cost U. Its effect isn't significant and you want to be able to cycle it easily when its useless.
Hall of Ancenstors, you shouldn't be able to get your own cards from exile. There are a few cards that do this in the history of magic but each one erodes the significance of exile as it slowly becomes just another graveyard. I think this would be more interesting if it messes with opponents heirs, probably at a lower cost.
Yeah, I'm hesitant about pulling things back from Exile, I just thought that putting two layers of conditions on it would be enough. I'll revisit that one, maybe it should just be reserved for that mythic Guardian of Generations.
As for the timing of the trigger. You mention countering the creature. Is it possible for an ability like this to apply an attribute to the creature spell on the stack? Specifically, would it be possible for an heir to be made uncounterable? That seems to be stretching it a lot, but it would be cool if it could work that way.
What do you think of the placement of the abilities? Above or below?
In regards to your etb triggers...perhaps the reminder text should read "AS you cast a creature spell..." instead of when?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MEMNARCH FOR PRESIDENT!!!
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
In regards to your etb triggers...perhaps the reminder text should read "AS you cast a creature spell..." instead of when?
Inherit is currently a triggered ability that triggers on cast, not a replacement effect that modifies how you cast spells. It could be changed to function like Splice onto Arcane, it might feel awkward but it would function fine. It all depends on how you want to handle such things.
As for the timing of the trigger. You mention countering the creature. Is it possible for an ability like this to apply an attribute to the creature spell on the stack? Specifically, would it be possible for an heir to be made uncounterable? That seems to be stretching it a lot, but it would be cool if it could work that way.
As it is, you could have uncounterable on an inherit card, however if you had one and you opponent wanted to counter your creature they could just do it before the ability resolved. To fix this you can make it a replacement effect like Splice as mentioned by Ie Magin. It would then count as an additional cost to cast the spell.
What do you think of the placement of the abilities? Above or below?
Any abilities the card itself has should be first, then Inherit, then any abilities it grants to its heir.
In regards to your etb triggers...perhaps the reminder text should read "AS you cast a creature spell..." instead of when?
Inherit is currently a triggered ability that triggers on cast, not a replacement effect that modifies how you cast spells. It could be changed to function like Splice onto Arcane, it might feel awkward but it would function fine. It all depends on how you want to handle such things.
It would allow more options, such as any "when ~ enters the battlefield" effects.
The triggered ability already allowed that. The only significant thing changing allows is uncounterable.
I'd rather keep it as a trigger rather than an additional cost. Uncounterability is only a minor thing for the most part, there wouldn't be more than one card that does that.
More designs!
Iron Bolt2R
Instant [C]
Iron Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
Inherit R
Iron Bolt's heir gets +1/+0 and has first strike.
Black Market Kingpin3BB
Creature - Human Noble Rogue [R]
When Black Market Kingpin enters the battlefield, you lose 2 life and draw two cards.
Inherit BB
Black Market Kingpin's heir has "At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life and draw a card."
2/5
Frontier Governor4W
Creature - Human Noble [R]
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 white Citizen creature token.
Inherit 1W
Frontier Governor's heir gets +1/+1 for each other creature you control.
3/4
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Inherit (When you cast a creature spell, you may pay and exile this card from your graveyard. If you do, that creature is this card's heir as long as it remains exiled.)
The inherit ability is always paired with another ability that defines the attributes granted to the heir creature.
So the most basic form of this would be something like:
Town Guard W
Creature - Human Soldier
Town Guard's heir gets +1/+1.
Inherit W
1/1
Design questions I have for this:
Would it be better to put the attribute granting ability below the inherit ability? Especially in the case of creatures that have another ability it might make it clearer what part of the text applies to the card itself and what part goes to the heir. I've initially put Inherit at the bottom in keeping with the other graveyard abilities Scavenge and Flashback, which are always the last thing on the card.
The way I wrote it, I hope to apply the inherit to a creature before it enters the battlefield, so that it has the attributes at all times, and could trigger enters the battlefield effects. Does my phrasing actually work to that effect? If not, how could it be changed to get that effect without being super wordy?
An example of what I might want to do:
Frontier Homesteader 1G
Creature - Human Citizen
Inherit 1G
When Frontier Homesteader's heir enters the battlefield, its controller searches his or her library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffles his or her library.
2/2
I expect to put this ability in primarily green and white, secondary in black, and tertiary in blue and red. As a major set mechanic, I would like it to be present in all colors a little bit at least. Does this feel appropriate? Or would putting such an effect into red and blue violate color norms too much? Keep in mind that there's nothing stopping a noncreature from having Inherit.
I feel like the inherit costs should be in line with Kicker, especially for the direct buffs. Since you have to pay to cast a creature in addition to paying for the inherit trigger, I think the costs can be set quite aggressively. Any thoughts on that direction?
And to finish it off, a more outlandish thing to Inherit, and ways to manipulate heirs.
Guardian of Generations 4GW
Creature - Spirit [M]
Vigilance, reach
Inherit 1GW
When Guardian of Generations' heir dies, its controller may put Guardian of Generations onto the battlefield under his or her control.
6/6
Abdicate 1W
Instant [U]
Choose a nontoken creature you control with Inherit and exile it.
Target creature becomes heir to the chosen card as long as it remains exiled.
Usurper of Title 1BB
Creature - Human Assassin Noble [U]
When Usurper of Title enters the battlefield, destroy target creature that's an heir. Usurper of Title becomes heir to all cards that creature was heir to as long as they remain exiled.
2/1
Strip of Inheritance 1U
Instant [U]
Target creature is no longer heir to any cards.
Draw a card.
Hall of Ancenstors
Land [R]
T: Add C to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, spend this mana only to pay for Inherit abilities you control.
4, T: Put target exiled card with Inherit into its owner's graveyard if it has no heirs.
Any thoughts in general beyond my questions above? Any additions or changes you would make?
Only two comments on cards.
Strip of Inheritance, should just cost U. Its effect isn't significant and you want to be able to cycle it easily when its useless.
Hall of Ancenstors, you shouldn't be able to get your own cards from exile. There are a few cards that do this in the history of magic but each one erodes the significance of exile as it slowly becomes just another graveyard. I think this would be more interesting if it messes with opponents heirs, probably at a lower cost.
As for the timing of the trigger. You mention countering the creature. Is it possible for an ability like this to apply an attribute to the creature spell on the stack? Specifically, would it be possible for an heir to be made uncounterable? That seems to be stretching it a lot, but it would be cool if it could work that way.
What do you think of the placement of the abilities? Above or below?
Yeah, it's like Haunt if it's a one-time effect and like bestow if it's a indefinite effect (excluding +1/+1 counters).
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
As it is, you could have uncounterable on an inherit card, however if you had one and you opponent wanted to counter your creature they could just do it before the ability resolved. To fix this you can make it a replacement effect like Splice as mentioned by Ie Magin. It would then count as an additional cost to cast the spell.
Any abilities the card itself has should be first, then Inherit, then any abilities it grants to its heir.
More designs!
Iron Bolt 2R
Instant [C]
Iron Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
Inherit R
Iron Bolt's heir gets +1/+0 and has first strike.
Black Market Kingpin 3BB
Creature - Human Noble Rogue [R]
When Black Market Kingpin enters the battlefield, you lose 2 life and draw two cards.
Inherit BB
Black Market Kingpin's heir has "At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life and draw a card."
2/5
Frontier Governor 4W
Creature - Human Noble [R]
At the beginning of your upkeep, create a 1/1 white Citizen creature token.
Inherit 1W
Frontier Governor's heir gets +1/+1 for each other creature you control.
3/4