Liquid State1U
Instant
Target permanent becomes a colorless Island land until end of turn.
Draw a card.
Tideling1UU
Creature - Elemental Shapeshifter U: Tideling becomes a colorless Island land until end of turn. 1: Tideling gets +1/-1 until end of turn. 1: Tideling gets -1/+1 until end of turn.
1/4
Earthen Aggregate9GGG
Creature - Elemental
Earthen Aggregate costs 1 less to cast for each land you control.
Earthen Aggregate’s power and toughness are each equal to the number of lands you control.
Trample
*/*
Wild Rage2RG
Sorcery
Search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. It becomes a 3/3 red and green Elemental creature with haste until end of turn.
*Bonus*
The Last Bastion3WG
Legendary Creature - Wall
Defender
Creatures you control with defender have vigilance, can attack as though they didn’t have defender and assign combat damage equal to their toughness rather than their power.
0/6
Private Mod Note
():
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Oh, what's that you say, Karn? You remove poison counters? You should tell that to Mr. Rosewater.
Liquid State - interesting cantrip. I know there's a use case or two for this, I just can't think of what it is. The "colorless island land" seems clunky. Isn't the correct phrasing "Basic Land - Island" I need to look up the template. If Landwalking was still a thing this would be very interesting. In any case, I like it. Just wish I can clear my head and think of a way to abuse it.
Tideling - why would one want to spend to get a :symu:? To avoid Wrath of God type spells? I would use another color to allow color shaping.
Earthen Aggregate - That's interesting... I like it. I wonder if something like mana-less lands like Maze of Ith would make this a bit more interesting.
Wild Rage - a sorcery that draws up a 3/3 creature with haste. I feel this should be an instant. I would bank on this creature dying in nearly every instance I would need a 3/3 with haste except one or two. For 4cmc and three damage, I would choose to use a similar direct damage for all the benefits it would offer.
The Last Bastion - This is why I'm posting. Wouldn't this basically be a 6/6 with vigilance that modifies defenders or am I not reading the card correctly?
Liquid state has the correct template. Song of the Dryads
The reason cards like Spreading Seas and Blood Moon don't state that the land or lands become colorless and lands is because they only affect cards that are already lands and most of the time lands are already colorless.
Morphling, Ætherling, Thornling, etc
Tideling costs significantly less than any of the other "lings" and therefore does less. Changing color is not why this card has that ability. There is a small upside to the ability in that if Tideling is untapped, the ability ends up paying for itself. It's mostly just a riff with an interesting twist.
I'm so very confused. Nothing is untapping Tideling, nor does it benefit from it more than any other Island. It's not an evasion ability either. It's an Island. An Island cannot attack or block.
The Last Bastion is not Assault Formation. It's not Doran, the Siege Tower, either. 3WG for a 6/6 Vigilance is uncommon at best. I'm not sure what it breaks.
I feel like I'm being trolled here. Your second example is not what The Last Bastion says. You've omitted literally the most important part and didn't omit it in the first example.
That's not what evasion means in Magic vernacular.
I'm not dismissing valid criticism. My comment was meant to reflect that you had either failed to read what the card did twice already or were deliberately ignoring it. It does matter, as you had said it was Assault Formation, which it is not.
It matters because you're playing a deck full of defenders in the hopes that you will stick a Legendary creature that has no protection. The card is a junk rare designed to appeal to a certain demographic of players. It's pure fun. I still don't see what it breaks.
Also, if you actually think that an enchantment is easier to get rid of than a creature, I don't know how to respond.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh, what's that you say, Karn? You remove poison counters? You should tell that to Mr. Rosewater.
I agree with BTG on this one. Bastion is somewhat convoluted. It would be simpler to make it a 6/6 with Vigilance. It's easier to see how undercosted it is.
Where it becomes super interesting is with cards like Tree of Perdition and Tree of Redemption creating el cheapo 13/13 monsters that pull double whammys with Vigilance. Comparable 13/13 creatures have huge draw backs, huge costs, or both. The Trees are even nastier once you realize that if you or your opponent are over 13 life. A 20/20 face beater? Get some life gain going and make it even bigger? I can see this getting a bit of use.
The Last Bastion is very pushed. You can argue that it isn't, but when it compares favorably to every current creature on a pure p/t to cost ratio you don't have much of a leg to stand on(a 3WG for a 6/6 Vigilance is uncommon at best This thought is not supported by facts and is probably leading your under evaluation of this card, it is in fact a rare at minimum). Add in the fact that it has a passive Wakestone Gargoyle stapled on to a restricted Doran, the Siege Tower plus vigilance and your can see you creature is quite a bit over the normal power curve. However it isn't broken, it is undoubtedly pushed but still within the printable range.
I'm not dismissing valid criticism. My comment was meant to reflect that you had either failed to read what the card did twice already or were deliberately ignoring it. It does matter, as you had said it was Assault Formation, which it is not.
It matters because you're playing a deck full of defenders in the hopes that you will stick a Legendary creature that has no protection. The card is a junk rare designed to appeal to a certain demographic of players. It's pure fun. I still don't see what it breaks.
Also, if you actually think that an enchantment is easier to get rid of than a creature, I don't know how to respond.
I think it's slightly pushed in size for a rare with vigilance, but I like it a lot overall and I think it would be a fun junk rare to build around.
The card has gone from "broken", to "undercosted", to "pushed", to "slightly pushed". I honestly think it's fine as a Legendary build-around-me creature. If printing it at 4WG is what it takes then I don't have a problem with that. It's not supposed to be a powerhouse.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh, what's that you say, Karn? You remove poison counters? You should tell that to Mr. Rosewater.
My apologies. By "slightly pushed", I just meant that it was at the high end of the cost to benefits scale. I don't think it's broken and that most of its value comes from being a build-around-me.
It would be a monster in Little Kid aggro, but it would probably be too expensive for that deck, even at 5 mana. And, at the end of the day, it's a big, dumb monster that dies to removal, like you said.
I think we have a tendency to be strongly conservative in regards to costing around here. I'm guessing this is partly due to the fact that Wizards doesn't talk about the decision making process that goes into pushing things (to the top of our over the curve) and because people tend to remember when they screwed it up versus when it didn't really matter (Terra Stomper for example). It's easy to go with "safe" designs when your job isn't riding on them.
That's fair. I'll probably stick it at 6. I think the demographic that would want to play this wouldn't care much about a difference of one mana here. I'd jam it in limited either way.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh, what's that you say, Karn? You remove poison counters? You should tell that to Mr. Rosewater.
I think a 6/6 for 5 at rare is perfectly acceptable and I do believe this should be rare, as the whole deals damage equal to its toughness ability is slightly complex and also having a legend at uncommon is just odd. (Yes, Kamigawa did it but that doesn't make it any less strange)
Instant
Target permanent becomes a colorless Island land until end of turn.
Draw a card.
Tideling 1UU
Creature - Elemental Shapeshifter
U: Tideling becomes a colorless Island land until end of turn.
1: Tideling gets +1/-1 until end of turn.
1: Tideling gets -1/+1 until end of turn.
1/4
Earthen Aggregate 9GGG
Creature - Elemental
Earthen Aggregate costs 1 less to cast for each land you control.
Earthen Aggregate’s power and toughness are each equal to the number of lands you control.
Trample
*/*
Wild Rage 2RG
Sorcery
Search your library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. It becomes a 3/3 red and green Elemental creature with haste until end of turn.
*Bonus*
The Last Bastion 3WG
Legendary Creature - Wall
Defender
Creatures you control with defender have vigilance, can attack as though they didn’t have defender and assign combat damage equal to their toughness rather than their power.
0/6
Tideling - why would one want to spend to get a :symu:? To avoid Wrath of God type spells? I would use another color to allow color shaping.
Earthen Aggregate - That's interesting... I like it. I wonder if something like mana-less lands like Maze of Ith would make this a bit more interesting.
Wild Rage - a sorcery that draws up a 3/3 creature with haste. I feel this should be an instant. I would bank on this creature dying in nearly every instance I would need a 3/3 with haste except one or two. For 4cmc and three damage, I would choose to use a similar direct damage for all the benefits it would offer.
The Last Bastion - This is why I'm posting. Wouldn't this basically be a 6/6 with vigilance that modifies defenders or am I not reading the card correctly?
The reason cards like Spreading Seas and Blood Moon don't state that the land or lands become colorless and lands is because they only affect cards that are already lands and most of the time lands are already colorless.
Morphling, Ætherling, Thornling, etc
Tideling costs significantly less than any of the other "lings" and therefore does less. Changing color is not why this card has that ability. There is a small upside to the ability in that if Tideling is untapped, the ability ends up paying for itself. It's mostly just a riff with an interesting twist.
That is exactly what The Last Bastion is.
The Last Bastion is not Assault Formation. It's not Doran, the Siege Tower, either. 3WG for a 6/6 Vigilance is uncommon at best. I'm not sure what it breaks.
I feel like I'm being trolled here. Your second example is not what The Last Bastion says. You've omitted literally the most important part and didn't omit it in the first example.
That's not what evasion means in Magic vernacular.
It matters because you're playing a deck full of defenders in the hopes that you will stick a Legendary creature that has no protection. The card is a junk rare designed to appeal to a certain demographic of players. It's pure fun. I still don't see what it breaks.
Also, if you actually think that an enchantment is easier to get rid of than a creature, I don't know how to respond.
Where it becomes super interesting is with cards like Tree of Perdition and Tree of Redemption creating el cheapo 13/13 monsters that pull double whammys with Vigilance. Comparable 13/13 creatures have huge draw backs, huge costs, or both. The Trees are even nastier once you realize that if you or your opponent are over 13 life. A 20/20 face beater? Get some life gain going and make it even bigger? I can see this getting a bit of use.
I think it's slightly pushed in size for a rare with vigilance, but I like it a lot overall and I think it would be a fun junk rare to build around.
A quick gatherer search shows that white and green have an affinity for under-costed creatures at uncommon. That's what the combination does best. There is no doubt in my mind that a 6/6 Vigilance for 3WG alone is uncommon. Take a look at what 5 mana gets you for a creature in green or white these days, just in Standard: Verderous Gearhulk, Arborback Stomper, Embodiment of Insight. Now add Legendary: Archangel Avacyn, The Gitrog Monster, Ishkanah, Grafwidow. We have had Serra Angel at uncommon for a very long time now. Tajuru Pathwarden and Sentinel Spider at common. Heck, green had Bestial Menace. White had Cloudgoat Ranger. A french vanilla 6/6 for 3WG is simply not rare. Especially not a Legendary one.
The card has gone from "broken", to "undercosted", to "pushed", to "slightly pushed". I honestly think it's fine as a Legendary build-around-me creature. If printing it at 4WG is what it takes then I don't have a problem with that. It's not supposed to be a powerhouse.
It would be a monster in Little Kid aggro, but it would probably be too expensive for that deck, even at 5 mana. And, at the end of the day, it's a big, dumb monster that dies to removal, like you said.
I think we have a tendency to be strongly conservative in regards to costing around here. I'm guessing this is partly due to the fact that Wizards doesn't talk about the decision making process that goes into pushing things (to the top of our over the curve) and because people tend to remember when they screwed it up versus when it didn't really matter (Terra Stomper for example). It's easy to go with "safe" designs when your job isn't riding on them.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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