Everyone understands the concept of the round. Magic doesn't really use this idea even though it exists.
Here's the idea. The player who goes first has a large coin .Perhaps a poker chip or a Dealer button, though any coin would work. Establish which side is Day and which is Night.
The game begins in the Day. At the beginning of each of the first player's turns, the player flips the coin, changing it from Day to Night or from Night to Day. When the coin is flipped, is considered twilight.
Both keyworded abiities are static abilities.
"At twilight," is a triggered ability.
Diurnal -- During the day, [Effect]. Nocturnal -- During the night, [Effect].
At twilight, [Effect].
CARDS
Twilight Guardian1W
Creature -- Human Soldier
When it becomes day, put a +1/+1 counter on Twilight Guardian.
1/1
Nightshadw Sage2U
Creature -- Turtle Wizard
At twilight, draw a card if Nightshade Sage is tapped.
1/3
Twilight Zealot1BB
Creature -- Zombie Cleric Nocturnal -- During the night, Twilight Zealot has "T: Each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life."
Duskvenom Spider3GB
Creature -- Insect Spider Diurnal -- During the day, Duskvenom Spider has deathtouch.
At twilight, destroy target tapped creature with flying.
2/4
Fiery Aurora1R
Enchantment
At twilight, Fiery Aurora deals 1 damage to each player.
Oaken Shield of Dancing Twilight1GG
Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +4/+3 and has trample.
At twilight, attach Twilight Oak Plate to target creature with no equipment attached to it.
Equip 1GG
Midnight Chalice3
Artifact
At twilight, you gain 1 life.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MEMNARCH FOR PRESIDENT!!!
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
I challenge this idea to start. Also I'm not 100% certain I understand what your trying to do here. If I understood correctly you want to set up a trigger like phasing that happens every other turn or once a cycle of turns. Then you have abilities that trigger every other 'phase' and ones that trigger every 'phase'. The idea itself is interesting, though excessively complex. The cards themselves aren't that complex but adding such a complex system to the game would require quite a bit of justification. Also the awkwardness of some games it triggers on your upkeep but other games it will trigger on opponents upkeep is a heavy strike against.
You are using a naming structure of Day, Night, Twilight. So you really shouldn't have cards that use those words in their names and care about a time other than the one in their name.
I don't see a benefit to the cards with Twilight over a simple trigger at the beginning of your upkeep. The only difference is the occasional triggering on your opponents upkeep as opposed to yourown but that is more of a minus than a plus.
This kind of idea could only work in a custom set because adding this much complexity to magic could be devastating. That said it could make a some very interesting set. Though, I don't think twilight is worth keeping. Having cards that function differently turn to turn is a neat gimmick, you should push the power level of the cards so there is a greater difference between when they are 'on' and 'off'. The biggest problem I have right now is the names. Neither Twilight Zealot nor Twilight Guardian care about Twilight, while Duskvenom Spider cares about Day, and Nightshadw Sage and Midnight Chalice care about Twilight.
Nocturnal Vampire Nocturnus of the Night1BBB
Creature — Vampire Nocturnal — During the night, Vampire Nocturnus and other Vampire creatures you control get +2/+1 and have flying.
3/3
Then some cards that flip the coin:
Darkness FallsBB
Instant
Cast Darkness Falls only if it's day.
Flip the (Time?) Coin.
This has the same problem that my Ages mechanic had: it adds a layer of tracking to the game that you must trach from the start of the game, regardless of whether or not anyone is using the mechanic. That's not a good thing.
What if the coin only entered the game when someone casts the first day/night spell? Then that player would flip it at the beginning of each of his turns until the end of the game. It wouldn't be that much different from putting counters on permanents. The wording could be something like this:
Timekeeping (When you cast this spell, if no player has a timekeeper, create a timekeeper face up or face down. Flip the timekeeper at the beginning of each of your turns.)
Example:
Twilight GuardianWB
Creature — Human Soldier
Timekeeping (When you cast this spell, if no player has a timekeeper, create a timekeeper face up or face down. Flip the timekeeper at the beginning of each of your turns.) Crepuscular — Whenever the timekeeper is flipped, put a +1/+1 counter on Twilight Guardian.
1/1
But the concept of things triggering with the twilight can be translated into cards just the same as if it was about the time of the day that the coin is flipping into, so I think it would work better if it was just Diurnal and Nocturnal.
What if the coin only entered the game when someone casts the first day/night spell? Then that player would flip it at the beginning of each of his turns until the end of the game. It wouldn't be that much different from putting counters on permanents.
At this point it becomes apparent that you are unaware that this very mechanic, and this very fix to it, has been considered before for canonical Magic. The mechanic was in consideration for Kamigawa-block IIRC turning into flip cards. You could do a google search on the topic of Maigc's Day/Night mechanic and find more than one article concerning the design and problems of the mechanic - maybe that can help you to skip another one or two steps since you are already grasping for the same unpleasent patchwork solutions the WotC designers were going for.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
At this point it becomes apparent that you are unaware that this very mechanic, and this very fix to it, has been considered before for canonical Magic. The mechanic was in consideration for Kamigawa-block IIRC turning into flip cards. You could do a google search on the topic of Maigc's Day/Night mechanic and find more than one article concerning the design and problems of the mechanic - maybe that can help you to skip another one or two steps since you are already grasping for the same unpleasent patchwork solutions the WotC designers were going for.
Are you talking about this one? Reading it only reminds me how their design teams are full of bull***** sometimes.
The design team was easily able to design cards that changed with the transition from Day to Night. The real problem was figuring out how the toggle from Day to Night, and back to Day, would happen. At first, the team considered just having the state naturally go back and forth, one turn Day, one turn Night, etc. . The team was reminded of the homarid mechanic from Fallen Empires where the game state kept rotating based on the “state of the tides”. After playing a little, they agreed that following a set pattern was often confusing to track and was just too predictable.
Oh no, the transition between day and night is predictable, who would've thought that? It's also a mystery to me how following a set pattern as predictable as the movement of the sun could possibly be confusing to track, but whatever.
MaRo's design was interesting though, shame he didn't show it to anyone:
A quick side note, during Unglued 2 design, I created a card called Heads Up/Tailspin. It was an enchantment with two sides. Each upkeep, the card's controller flipped a coin and then flipped up the relevant side. Heads Up was a positive enchantment while Tailspin was negative. I don't believe this card had any influence on this mechanic though as I never had an opportunity to show it to anyone because the set got put on hiatus.
After that they go on to test God knows what with a random experimental group and simply decide that Day/Night is undoable without explaining why. I trust these people with coming up with good designs as much as I trust them with the task of not keep printing new AncestralRecalls.
That's one of the sources. You can get more of the story by doing additional research. I'll take your insult personally because I can verify from personal experience that the suggested methods leave mucht to be desired, so apparently I must be full of it, too. Or maybe you are just putting too much weight into your own argument from incredulity.
At the very least their random experimental group and mine agree that the Day/Night mechanic as suggested is not a good enough final solution.
Note also that "undoable" is something you interpret into the text. They didn't deem Day/Night undoable, but made the decision to move on with flip-cards without using the Day/Night mechanic. And that's reasonable considering Kamigawa didn't thematically need a Day/Night mechanic.
You probably should also check out the corresponding articles for double-faced cards (since they also started with a Day/Night mechanic and and actual Day/Night theme as well). Another thing you should probably do, is reviewing the way you talk about other people.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Note also that "undoable" is something you interpret into the text. They didn't deem Day/Night undoable
I take it you don't read the articles you recommend, SecretInfiltrator:
The team spent many hours trying every possible way to trigger the game state. And nothing worked. Each version would bring its own problems. Either the game was too swingy, not allowing us to create the kind of transformations we wanted, or the game state was so tenuous that it made the player bend over backwards to play Day/Night. After weeks of playtesting, the team deemed the mechanic undoable.
I take it you don't read the articles you recommend, SecretInfiltrator
I don't re-read them. I mentally replaced this paragraph with something from another article/source where the transition is described differently. Well, take the DFC article into account - it also contains the actual Day/Night card which leads to better results (regarding tracking) but does not solve the "Homarid problem" by itself.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Here's the idea. The player who goes first has a large coin .Perhaps a poker chip or a Dealer button, though any coin would work. Establish which side is Day and which is Night.
The game begins in the Day. At the beginning of each of the first player's turns, the player flips the coin, changing it from Day to Night or from Night to Day. When the coin is flipped, is considered twilight.
Both keyworded abiities are static abilities.
"At twilight," is a triggered ability.
Diurnal -- During the day, [Effect].
Nocturnal -- During the night, [Effect].
At twilight, [Effect].
CARDS
Twilight Guardian 1W
Creature -- Human Soldier
When it becomes day, put a +1/+1 counter on Twilight Guardian.
1/1
Nightshadw Sage 2U
Creature -- Turtle Wizard
At twilight, draw a card if Nightshade Sage is tapped.
1/3
Twilight Zealot 1BB
Creature -- Zombie Cleric
Nocturnal -- During the night, Twilight Zealot has "T: Each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life."
Duskvenom Spider 3GB
Creature -- Insect Spider
Diurnal -- During the day, Duskvenom Spider has deathtouch.
At twilight, destroy target tapped creature with flying.
2/4
Fiery Aurora 1R
Enchantment
At twilight, Fiery Aurora deals 1 damage to each player.
Oaken Shield of Dancing Twilight 1GG
Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +4/+3 and has trample.
At twilight, attach Twilight Oak Plate to target creature with no equipment attached to it.
Equip 1GG
Midnight Chalice 3
Artifact
At twilight, you gain 1 life.
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
You are using a naming structure of Day, Night, Twilight. So you really shouldn't have cards that use those words in their names and care about a time other than the one in their name.
I don't see a benefit to the cards with Twilight over a simple trigger at the beginning of your upkeep. The only difference is the occasional triggering on your opponents upkeep as opposed to yourown but that is more of a minus than a plus.
This kind of idea could only work in a custom set because adding this much complexity to magic could be devastating. That said it could make a some very interesting set. Though, I don't think twilight is worth keeping. Having cards that function differently turn to turn is a neat gimmick, you should push the power level of the cards so there is a greater difference between when they are 'on' and 'off'. The biggest problem I have right now is the names. Neither Twilight Zealot nor Twilight Guardian care about Twilight, while Duskvenom Spider cares about Day, and Nightshadw Sage and Midnight Chalice care about Twilight.
And Vampire Nocturnus would've been much cooler to read:
Nocturnal Vampire Nocturnus of the Night 1BBB
Creature — Vampire
Nocturnal — During the night, Vampire Nocturnus and other Vampire creatures you control get +2/+1 and have flying.
3/3
Then some cards that flip the coin:
Darkness Falls BB
Instant
Cast Darkness Falls only if it's day.
Flip the (Time?) Coin.
Timekeeping (When you cast this spell, if no player has a timekeeper, create a timekeeper face up or face down. Flip the timekeeper at the beginning of each of your turns.)
Example:
Twilight Guardian WB
Creature — Human Soldier
Timekeeping (When you cast this spell, if no player has a timekeeper, create a timekeeper face up or face down. Flip the timekeeper at the beginning of each of your turns.)
Crepuscular — Whenever the timekeeper is flipped, put a +1/+1 counter on Twilight Guardian.
1/1
But the concept of things triggering with the twilight can be translated into cards just the same as if it was about the time of the day that the coin is flipping into, so I think it would work better if it was just Diurnal and Nocturnal.
Your Upkeep: Sunrise
Your Turn: Day
End of your Turn: Sunset
Your Opponent's Turn: Night
This is feels a lot more organic and intuitive to me.
Examples:
Early Birds
2U
Creature- Bird
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry 1.
2/2
Solar Flare
1R
Instant
~ deals 2 damage to target creature. If you cast ~ during your turn, ~ deals 2 damage to that creature's controller.
Day Pack
1G
Creature- Wolf
Trample
~ gets +1/+1 as long as it's your turn.
2/2
Dusk Raider
1B
Creature- Human Rogue
Skulk
At the end of your turn, target player loses 1 life.
1/2
Nightwatch
2W
Creature- Human Soldier
Vigilance
~ gets +0/+2 as long as it's not your turn.
2/2
At this point it becomes apparent that you are unaware that this very mechanic, and this very fix to it, has been considered before for canonical Magic. The mechanic was in consideration for Kamigawa-block IIRC turning into flip cards. You could do a google search on the topic of Maigc's Day/Night mechanic and find more than one article concerning the design and problems of the mechanic - maybe that can help you to skip another one or two steps since you are already grasping for the same unpleasent patchwork solutions the WotC designers were going for.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Are you talking about this one? Reading it only reminds me how their design teams are full of bull***** sometimes.
Oh no, the transition between day and night is predictable, who would've thought that? It's also a mystery to me how following a set pattern as predictable as the movement of the sun could possibly be confusing to track, but whatever.
MaRo's design was interesting though, shame he didn't show it to anyone:
After that they go on to test God knows what with a random experimental group and simply decide that Day/Night is undoable without explaining why. I trust these people with coming up with good designs as much as I trust them with the task of not keep printing new Ancestral Recalls.
At the very least their random experimental group and mine agree that the Day/Night mechanic as suggested is not a good enough final solution.
Note also that "undoable" is something you interpret into the text. They didn't deem Day/Night undoable, but made the decision to move on with flip-cards without using the Day/Night mechanic. And that's reasonable considering Kamigawa didn't thematically need a Day/Night mechanic.
You probably should also check out the corresponding articles for double-faced cards (since they also started with a Day/Night mechanic and and actual Day/Night theme as well). Another thing you should probably do, is reviewing the way you talk about other people.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
I take it you don't read the articles you recommend, SecretInfiltrator:
I don't re-read them. I mentally replaced this paragraph with something from another article/source where the transition is described differently. Well, take the DFC article into account - it also contains the actual Day/Night card which leads to better results (regarding tracking) but does not solve the "Homarid problem" by itself.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO