Just so that getting two of them in play at the same time in limited is going to happen very infrequently. Becauuse I'm pretty sure two of them in play is going to raise questions as to what they can produce.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Just so that getting two of them in play at the same time in limited is going to happen very infrequently. Becauuse I'm pretty sure two of them in play is going to raise questions as to what they can produce.
Agreed on this. I do believe the following ruling on Reflecting Pool would also apply here.
"Multiple Reflecting Pools won’t help each other produce mana. If you control a Reflecting Pool, and all other lands you control either lack mana abilities or are other Reflecting Pools, you may still activate Reflecting Pool’s ability -- it just won’t produce any mana."- (source is here)
I'd also fix the wording to line up with Reflecting Pool's as well: "t: Add to your mana pool one mana of any type that a land you control could not produce."
All that said, this is a really good design- it's useful and comes into play untapped, without being strictly better than the other relevant lands.
Just so that getting two of them in play at the same time in limited is going to happen very infrequently. Becauuse I'm pretty sure two of them in play is going to raise questions as to what they can produce.
Agreed on this. I do believe the following ruling on Reflecting Pool would also apply here.
"Multiple Reflecting Pools won’t help each other produce mana. If you control a Reflecting Pool, and all other lands you control either lack mana abilities or are other Reflecting Pools, you may still activate Reflecting Pool’s ability -- it just won’t produce any mana."- (source is here)
I'd also fix the wording to line up with Reflecting Pool's as well: "t: Add to your mana pool one mana of any type that a land you control could not produce."
All that said, this is a really good design- it's useful and comes into play untapped, without being strictly better than the other relevant lands.
It's not the same as with Reflecting Pool. If all you have are Reflecting Pool then you don't have anything to produce mana at all so it makes logical sense that it would produce nothing.
You also have the issue that it prevents itself from making any mana.
You could fix both issues by adding a "add mana of any type that a land you control not named XX could not produce"
Reflecting Pool has a stable logical equilibrium. Two of these would not.
I think I'd like to treat this as a pseudo "infinite" situation where instead of literally going infinite, you pick a number and stop. What I mean is, Stop Gap A comes in as the only land, so can tap to add any, then Stop Gap B comes in second and sees Stop A, so Stop Gap B can't add anything. Stop Gap A continues to see Stop B, which can't add anything, so that keeps Stop A as being able to add anything. Basically, the second Stop Gap is useless.
Sadly no because color identity is not part of the rules and thus can't be used on a card. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
It's part of commander's offical rules at least, don't see a reason why that can't just be applied.
Command Tower suggests that their are already rules for this. Though you would have to go back to color instead of type because there is no colorless color identity.
Is there any reason it cannot produce pink mana for example? As there is water gun balloon game from unhinged and a mana dork (bloom tender) that produces a colour of permanents you control. Unless that's just silly un-set things
Color Identity is very much in the official rules. It is currently only mentioned in the Commander section but the rules already exist so it is not a stretch to has Stop Gap use color identity to produce colors. However using this method it makes a significantly more powerful card because as long as you run only lands without mana symbols then it is a restriction-less 5 mana land which is quite broken.
From the comp rules for reference:
903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a
certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that
card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see
rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
Example: Bosh, Iron Golem is a legendary artifact creature with mana cost {8} and the
ability “{3}{R}, Sacrifice an artifact: Bosh, Iron Golem deals damage equal to the
sacrificed artifact's converted mana cost to target creature or player.” Bosh’s color identity
is red.
903.4a Color identity is established before the game begins.
903.4b Reminder text is ignored when determining a card’s color identity. See rule 207.2.
903.4c The back face of a double-faced card (see rule 711) is included when determining a card’s
color identity.
Example: Civilized Scholar is the front face of a double-faced card with mana cost
{2}{U}. Homicidal Brute is the back face of that double-faced card and has a red color
indicator. The card’s color identity is blue and red.
It might be enough to push a five color good stuff deck but might not make any other waves. Because it requires that specific deck to function it wouldn't be broken. I was hasty in my condemnation, a five color restriction-less land would be broken because it slots effortlessly into nearly any deck, but this is not that land.
Stop Gap
Land T: Add one mana of any type that has not been added to your mana pool this turn. Until end of turn, other sources you control cannot add mana of that type to your mana pool.
I think you have secretly, or at least unintentionally, significantly increased the power of this card. While it was never good for anything with heavy mana requirement, like Phyrexian Obliterator, this change makes it an all star in any deck that doesn't have double color costs. Because with this wording this land gives you access to any color but only one of that color so it works wonders with a shockland mana base as opposed to the last incarnation that did terribly with such a mana base. Most decks could slot this land in and find only improvement due to the lack of double color symbols. It could even encourage additional color splash with little to no cost. So while this may capture the intended function it has pushed the power level in a weird way, where it isn't broken(though it might be) but nearly every deck wants it due to the low opportunity cost.
I think you have secretly, or at least unintentionally, significantly increased the power of this card. While it was never good for anything with heavy mana requirement, like Phyrexian Obliterator, this change makes it an all star in any deck that doesn't have double color costs. Because with this wording this land gives you access to any color but only one of that color so it works wonders with a shockland mana base as opposed to the last incarnation that did terribly with such a mana base. Most decks could slot this land in and find only improvement due to the lack of double color symbols. It could even encourage additional color splash with little to no cost. So while this may capture the intended function it has pushed the power level in a weird way, where it isn't broken(though it might be) but nearly every deck wants it due to the low opportunity cost.
That was unintentional. I didn't realize the differences in interaction between this and dual lands versus the last version.
Alternately:
Stop Gap
Land
When ~ enters the battlefield, choose a type of mana that a land you control can't produce. T: Add one mana of the chosen type to your mana pool.
I don't like using color identity since it's a concept that non-commander Magic currently doesn't use and one that it will probably not have a reason to use in the future. (And the fact that it keys off printed mana symbols is non-intuitive to non-commander players.)
Adding a dynamic shut-off feature to my last one:
Stop Gap
Land
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a type of mana. T: Add one mana of the chosen type to your mana pool. You can't activate this ability if another land you control could produce mana of that type.
I don't see why the card as it exists in the OP can't use reminder text to clarify that having two or more on the battlefield won't do much.
To clarify, if you have two of these on the battlefield (let's say, A and B), with no other lands on the battlefield, neither will be able to produce any type of mana.
If you have just one out (just A), clearly it can produce any type of mana.
If you have two out, it gets a bit more complicated. The following evaluations happen on a land-by-land basis, with no game time in between:
1) Since you know A can produce all types of mana, it stands that B cannot produce any types of mana.
2) Since you know B can produce all types of mana, it stands that A cannot produce any types of mana. The reason that the conclusion reached in evaluation 1 isn't used is because its conclusion is reached at the same time as evaluation 2's conclusion.
The reason why these evaluations happen simultaneously is because they are independent of the layer system, since the types of mana producible don't have to do with any attributes checked by the layer system (this could be hacked in, of course), so they don't get evaluated in timestamp order. The reason why these evaluations don't "retro-evaluate" (that is, use the fact that neither can produce mana to logically imply that they both can produce all types of mana) is because there is only one opportunity to determine what types of mana can be produced by any given land, and aa far as the game is concerned, that time has already passed.
As far as color identity goes, just because it's only used in the Commander format now doesn't mean that it can't be used with custom cards. The CR is changed all the time with the addition of new and often quirky cards, and this is just another such card. There is an axiom of card creation where the designer assumes the role of Wizards, and can therefore do whatever it is that needs to be done to make a design in question work, as long as the core functioning rules of the game aren't hampered with. Hacking the CR so that color identity is used in regular games is one such power.
---
Having said that, here are a few solutions to go with, depending on which approach you want to use:
T: Add one mana of any type that no other land you control could produce. (If you control two of these lands, neither can produce any mana.)
Legendary Land T: Add one mana of any type that no other land you control could produce.
I wouldn't opt for the color identity route, since basic lands avoid the color identity restriction. This is because basic land cards have no color identity, but rather are limited in deck construction due to a similar but alternate rule.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
I wouldn't opt for the color identity route, since basic lands avoid the color identity restriction. This is because basic land cards have no color identity, but rather are limited in deck construction due to a similar but alternate rule.
Wrong, basic lands have a mana symbol (305.6), and thus have color identities. 903.5d is (probably) just for redundancy.
You're interpreting that rules entry erroneously to try and justify your incorrect view.
An intrinsic ability of a card is an ability that isn't part of the rules text of that card. This is evident based on cards with basic land types that don't have rules text. You can't use the existence of a basic land card's intrinsic ability to show that they have mana symbols in their rules text.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Apparently the intrinsic abilities of basic lands don't count as character defining. Huh. Seems dumb.
Its the same thing as Extort. Reminder text is ignored when establishing color identity.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Land
: Add 1 mana of any color no other land under your control can produce.
I can't place it, its way weaker than many rare lands, but its actually decent early game (and can become worthless later game).
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Art is life itself.
Just so that getting two of them in play at the same time in limited is going to happen very infrequently. Becauuse I'm pretty sure two of them in play is going to raise questions as to what they can produce.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Agreed on this. I do believe the following ruling on Reflecting Pool would also apply here.
"Multiple Reflecting Pools won’t help each other produce mana. If you control a Reflecting Pool, and all other lands you control either lack mana abilities or are other Reflecting Pools, you may still activate Reflecting Pool’s ability -- it just won’t produce any mana."- (source is here)
I'd also fix the wording to line up with Reflecting Pool's as well: "t: Add to your mana pool one mana of any type that a land you control could not produce."
All that said, this is a really good design- it's useful and comes into play untapped, without being strictly better than the other relevant lands.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
It's not the same as with Reflecting Pool. If all you have are Reflecting Pool then you don't have anything to produce mana at all so it makes logical sense that it would produce nothing.
You also have the issue that it prevents itself from making any mana.
You could fix both issues by adding a "add mana of any type that a land you control not named XX could not produce"
I think I'd like to treat this as a pseudo "infinite" situation where instead of literally going infinite, you pick a number and stop. What I mean is, Stop Gap A comes in as the only land, so can tap to add any, then Stop Gap B comes in second and sees Stop A, so Stop Gap B can't add anything. Stop Gap A continues to see Stop B, which can't add anything, so that keeps Stop A as being able to add anything. Basically, the second Stop Gap is useless.
Make it legendary! (and yes, it should be rare)
Art is life itself.
From the comp rules for reference:
Stop Gap
Land
T: Add one mana of any type that has not been added to your mana pool this turn. Until end of turn, other sources you control cannot add mana of that type to your mana pool.
That was unintentional. I didn't realize the differences in interaction between this and dual lands versus the last version.
Alternately:
Stop Gap
Land
When ~ enters the battlefield, choose a type of mana that a land you control can't produce.
T: Add one mana of the chosen type to your mana pool.
Adding a dynamic shut-off feature to my last one:
Stop Gap
Land
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a type of mana.
T: Add one mana of the chosen type to your mana pool. You can't activate this ability if another land you control could produce mana of that type.
To clarify, if you have two of these on the battlefield (let's say, A and B), with no other lands on the battlefield, neither will be able to produce any type of mana.
If you have just one out (just A), clearly it can produce any type of mana.
If you have two out, it gets a bit more complicated. The following evaluations happen on a land-by-land basis, with no game time in between:
1) Since you know A can produce all types of mana, it stands that B cannot produce any types of mana.
2) Since you know B can produce all types of mana, it stands that A cannot produce any types of mana. The reason that the conclusion reached in evaluation 1 isn't used is because its conclusion is reached at the same time as evaluation 2's conclusion.
The reason why these evaluations happen simultaneously is because they are independent of the layer system, since the types of mana producible don't have to do with any attributes checked by the layer system (this could be hacked in, of course), so they don't get evaluated in timestamp order. The reason why these evaluations don't "retro-evaluate" (that is, use the fact that neither can produce mana to logically imply that they both can produce all types of mana) is because there is only one opportunity to determine what types of mana can be produced by any given land, and aa far as the game is concerned, that time has already passed.
As far as color identity goes, just because it's only used in the Commander format now doesn't mean that it can't be used with custom cards. The CR is changed all the time with the addition of new and often quirky cards, and this is just another such card. There is an axiom of card creation where the designer assumes the role of Wizards, and can therefore do whatever it is that needs to be done to make a design in question work, as long as the core functioning rules of the game aren't hampered with. Hacking the CR so that color identity is used in regular games is one such power.
---
Having said that, here are a few solutions to go with, depending on which approach you want to use:
T: Add one mana of any type that no other land you control could produce.
I wouldn't opt for the color identity route, since basic lands avoid the color identity restriction. This is because basic land cards have no color identity, but rather are limited in deck construction due to a similar but alternate rule.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
You're interpreting that rules entry erroneously to try and justify your incorrect view.
An intrinsic ability of a card is an ability that isn't part of the rules text of that card. This is evident based on cards with basic land types that don't have rules text. You can't use the existence of a basic land card's intrinsic ability to show that they have mana symbols in their rules text.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Its the same thing as Extort. Reminder text is ignored when establishing color identity.
- Manite