First theme exploration: How to represent the action of exploring. In cards so far discovery/exploration has been about lands and card advantage, so I'll try this:
<Blue Explorer>
Creature - Bird Scout
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, explore. (Reveal the top card of your library and draw a card. Discard a crad unless the revealed card was a land.)
1/1
<Green Explorer>
Creature - Elf Scout
When ~ enters the battlefield, explore. (Reveal the top card of your library and draw a card. Discard a crad unless the revealed card was a land.)
2/2
How is the keyword action? Inherently flawed? How are the example cards? What would you change?
Second theme expansion/territory: How to represent expanding your territory/domain. One option is domain. Another:
<Red Guardian>
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Territory (When this enters the battlefield, spawn a Territory land token with " : Add to your mana pool". The land leaves if its liege does.) : ~ gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
4/4
<Green Guardian>
Creature - Elf Scout
Territory (When this enters the battlefield, spawn a Territory land token with " : Add to your mana pool". The land leaves if its liege does.)
1/1
Ramp? Does the keyword feel right? Can it be developed? Do the cards do it justice?
Thirdd theme legendary matters: Why does this fit to Pyrulea?
No idea, are these rulers of empires? Generals of armies? Heroes of legend? Explorers? Maybe a crew on an expedition?
Inspired by a fellow thread:
Captain Almirec
Legendary Creature - Cat Scout
Recruit (Tap another nonlegendary creature you control: It becomes a cohort of this creature as long as both remain on the battlefield. Recruit as a sorcery.)
Cohorts of ~ get +1/+1.
Sacrifice a cohort of ~: You gain 2 life.
2/3
Build your own exploration party around a charismatic leader!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
First theme exploration: How to represent the action of exploring. In cards so far discovery/exploration has been about lands and card advantage, so I'll try this
More accurately, lands and library matters. That was where it started, from the combination of the desire to care about lands differently than Zendikar but also not focusing on lands matter and trying other themes, things that naturally fit well together.
On this Explore variant: I don't like it. Just seems like a more narrow version of the current Discover/Explore frontrunner- Discover/Explore- Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, (effect). Otherwise, you may put that card on the bottom of your library. (alternative version could put the card into your graveyard)
On Territory: Land tokens don't work very well apparently because people forget they are there if they are using cards for tokens or have difficulty telling if they are tapped if not. Regardless, this is not how I would do a land token mechanic- it doesn't make use of the more unique space. This is just very close to various mana or land grabbing effects.
Thirdd theme legendary matters: Why does this fit to Pyrulea?
No idea, are these rulers of empires? Generals of armies? Heroes of legend? Explorers? Maybe a crew on an expedition?
Legendary matters got high poll numbers, so it's something being considered for the set. It doesn't have to, and the consensus as it seems to me is that we don't want one, both because legendary matters doesn't work because common legends is too much of a stretch but also because the set is doing other things, as you note.
Personally, I wouldn't care if we dropped it entirely, but it's quite easy to just throw in a cycle at rare or something and I'm sure there are players who like that kind of thing a lot.
Also, why is this post separate from the set thread? It doesn't seem tangential enough to warrant it.
More accurately, lands and library matters. That was where it started, from the combination of the desire to care about lands differently than Zendikar but also not focusing on lands matter and trying other themes, things that naturally fit well together.
It started with lands and exploration and Pyrulea. I am aware you added in library and it is one possible avenue for exploration, but why limit your thinking so early in the process?
On this Explore variant: I don't like it. Just seems like a more narrow version of the current Discover/Explore frontrunner- Discover/Explore- Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, (effect). Otherwise, you may put that card on the bottom of your library. (alternative version could put the card into your graveyard)
Is it more narrow? You still can care about discovering a specific card. And exploring itself becomes a more repeatable treat - no longer do you have to decide whether to keep a good nonland card or bury it on the bottom of your library to have a chance to get your next discover/explore trigger. I can see this fueling a more "feel good" variant over the ability word.
Also think about it as a standalone representation of explore first. This is hardly a brainstorm if all you do is repeat the ideas someone already stated.
On Territory: Land tokens don't work very well apparently because people forget they are there if they are using cards for tokens or have difficulty telling if they are tapped if not. Regardless, this is not how I would do a land token mechanic- it doesn't make use of the more unique space. This is just very close to various mana or land grabbing effects.
The land token problem is actually addressed within the needs f the mechanic itself - since you will need to keep the token associated with its ruler the land token can be kept close to its ruler. In practice these could play like mana abilities that tap independent of the creature, but also fuel land synergies if the set around them has them.
Please, expand upon the more unique space and how you would make a land token mechanic. This is a place for positive energy.
legendary matters doesn't work because common legends is too much of a stretch but also because the set is doing other things, as you note.
Personally, I wouldn't care if we dropped it entirely
What else is being dropped?
Also, why is this post separate from the set thread? It doesn't seem tangential enough to warrant it.
So the mechanics can be analysed with an open mind without having to compete with established ideas.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
More accurately, lands and library matters. That was where it started, from the combination of the desire to care about lands differently than Zendikar but also not focusing on lands matter and trying other themes, things that naturally fit well together.
It started with lands and exploration and Pyrulea. I am aware you added in library and it is one possible avenue for exploration, but why limit your thinking so early in the process?
It's not a limiting of possibilities it's a defining of direction. You don't start building making foundations when you don't know what you're going to build. Choosing library matters as a theme is about deciding what mechanical spaces convey the themes of the world, so mechanics can be designed that make use of that space.
No design decision is irreversible anyway.
On this Explore variant: I don't like it. Just seems like a more narrow version of the current Discover/Explore frontrunner-
Discover/Explore- Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, (effect). Otherwise, you may put that card on the bottom of your library. (alternative version could put the card into your graveyard)
Is it more narrow? You still can care about discovering a specific card. And exploring itself becomes a more repeatable treat - no longer do you have to decide whether to keep a good nonland card or bury it on the bottom of your library to have a chance to get your next discover/explore trigger. I can see this fueling a more "feel good" variant over the ability word.
Your proposed version gives a defined reward for finding a land, which makes it more narrow.
I don't think the situation is going to come up very often with my version where the decision is particularly hard or otherwise uncomfortable. You're not even going to be playing another card with the ability next turn very often, so digging for a land with it to get other triggers won't be too big a pressure. More than anything, the scry clause there is to mitigate the feel bad of missing by giving you an effect that doesn't feel tacked on. Every threshold mechanic encourages you to make otherwise subpar decisions to get their benefit, so they all have feel bad potential, the game is full of it.
Unless such moments prove prominent enough in playtests, I don't see enough reason at all to fear such a problem, so your idea just seems like a more limited version. I don't think it's an effect you just want to plaster everywhere.
Also think about it as a standalone representation of explore first. This is hardly a brainstorm if all you do is repeat the ideas someone already stated.
It's an alternative, no? So I'm going to compare it.
On Territory: Land tokens don't work very well apparently because people forget they are there if they are using cards for tokens or have difficulty telling if they are tapped if not. Regardless, this is not how I would do a land token mechanic- it doesn't make use of the more unique space. This is just very close to various mana or land grabbing effects.
The land token problem is actually addressed within the needs f the mechanic itself - since you will need to keep the token associated with its ruler the land token can be kept close to its ruler. In practice these could play like mana abilities that tap independent of the creature, but also fuel land synergies if the set around them has them.
Keeping land tokens seperate from your lands is going to make it harder for other players to figure out how much mana you have available. Board complexity is high.
Please, expand upon the more unique space and how you would make a land token mechanic. This is a place for positive energy.
The more unique space is things like making land tokens that don't match with any lands you are playing, through being special lands or by allowing you make basic lands you aren't playing, or getting more copies of specific lands than you are playing.
Your proposed version gives a defined reward for finding a land, which makes it more narrow.
I'm perfectly fine with:
Foraging Tuskor
Creature - Boar Turtle
Whenever ~ attacks, explore.
Whenever you discover a land card on an exploration, ~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3
It's an alternative, no? So I'm going to compare it.
It's a parallel design that could easily be taken into a different direction if you were not comparing it to a mechanic from another thread.
To quote myself: "So the mechanics can be analysed with an open mind without having to compete with established ideas."
How would you react to the mechanic without an established idea in mind? Is it an inherently bad keyword action or is it just bad because of a preexisting notion of what you expect "explore" to be?
Keeping land tokens seperate from your lands is going to make it harder for other players to figure out how much mana you have available. Board complexity is high.
I wonder whether that's ever brought up with Hedron Crawler.
The more unique space is things like making land tokens that don't match with any lands you are playing, through being special lands or by allowing you make basic lands you aren't playing, or getting more copies of specific lands than you are playing.
Are you suggesting those to be keywords or are you under the impression that just because one keyword uses land tokens the whole concept of land tokens are now locked to that mechanic? I don't think one specific use of land tokens precludes any other use. It's not like Clue tokens are the only possible use for artifact tokens.
I'm not getting the meaning behind every entry on the list, so is there something on this list that can be applied here to make a better mechanic?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
<Blue Explorer>
Creature - Bird Scout
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, explore. (Reveal the top card of your library and draw a card. Discard a crad unless the revealed card was a land.)
1/1
<Green Explorer>
Creature - Elf Scout
When ~ enters the battlefield, explore. (Reveal the top card of your library and draw a card. Discard a crad unless the revealed card was a land.)
2/2
How is the keyword action? Inherently flawed? How are the example cards? What would you change?
Second theme expansion/territory: How to represent expanding your territory/domain. One option is domain. Another:
<Red Guardian>
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Territory (When this enters the battlefield, spawn a Territory land token with "
4/4
<Green Guardian>
Creature - Elf Scout
Territory (When this enters the battlefield, spawn a Territory land token with "
1/1
Ramp? Does the keyword feel right? Can it be developed? Do the cards do it justice?
Thirdd theme legendary matters: Why does this fit to Pyrulea?
No idea, are these rulers of empires? Generals of armies? Heroes of legend? Explorers? Maybe a crew on an expedition?
Inspired by a fellow thread:
Captain Almirec
Legendary Creature - Cat Scout
Recruit (Tap another nonlegendary creature you control: It becomes a cohort of this creature as long as both remain on the battlefield. Recruit as a sorcery.)
Cohorts of ~ get +1/+1.
Sacrifice a cohort of ~: You gain 2 life.
2/3
Build your own exploration party around a charismatic leader!
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
More accurately, lands and library matters. That was where it started, from the combination of the desire to care about lands differently than Zendikar but also not focusing on lands matter and trying other themes, things that naturally fit well together.
On this Explore variant: I don't like it. Just seems like a more narrow version of the current Discover/Explore frontrunner-
Discover/Explore- Reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land card, (effect). Otherwise, you may put that card on the bottom of your library. (alternative version could put the card into your graveyard)
On Territory: Land tokens don't work very well apparently because people forget they are there if they are using cards for tokens or have difficulty telling if they are tapped if not. Regardless, this is not how I would do a land token mechanic- it doesn't make use of the more unique space. This is just very close to various mana or land grabbing effects.
Legendary matters got high poll numbers, so it's something being considered for the set. It doesn't have to, and the consensus as it seems to me is that we don't want one, both because legendary matters doesn't work because common legends is too much of a stretch but also because the set is doing other things, as you note.
Personally, I wouldn't care if we dropped it entirely, but it's quite easy to just throw in a cycle at rare or something and I'm sure there are players who like that kind of thing a lot.
Also, why is this post separate from the set thread? It doesn't seem tangential enough to warrant it.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
It started with lands and exploration and Pyrulea. I am aware you added in library and it is one possible avenue for exploration, but why limit your thinking so early in the process?
Is it more narrow? You still can care about discovering a specific card. And exploring itself becomes a more repeatable treat - no longer do you have to decide whether to keep a good nonland card or bury it on the bottom of your library to have a chance to get your next discover/explore trigger. I can see this fueling a more "feel good" variant over the ability word.
Also think about it as a standalone representation of explore first. This is hardly a brainstorm if all you do is repeat the ideas someone already stated.
The land token problem is actually addressed within the needs f the mechanic itself - since you will need to keep the token associated with its ruler the land token can be kept close to its ruler. In practice these could play like mana abilities that tap independent of the creature, but also fuel land synergies if the set around them has them.
Please, expand upon the more unique space and how you would make a land token mechanic. This is a place for positive energy.
What else is being dropped?
So the mechanics can be analysed with an open mind without having to compete with established ideas.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
It's not a limiting of possibilities it's a defining of direction. You don't start building making foundations when you don't know what you're going to build. Choosing library matters as a theme is about deciding what mechanical spaces convey the themes of the world, so mechanics can be designed that make use of that space.
No design decision is irreversible anyway.
Your proposed version gives a defined reward for finding a land, which makes it more narrow.
I don't think the situation is going to come up very often with my version where the decision is particularly hard or otherwise uncomfortable. You're not even going to be playing another card with the ability next turn very often, so digging for a land with it to get other triggers won't be too big a pressure. More than anything, the scry clause there is to mitigate the feel bad of missing by giving you an effect that doesn't feel tacked on. Every threshold mechanic encourages you to make otherwise subpar decisions to get their benefit, so they all have feel bad potential, the game is full of it.
Unless such moments prove prominent enough in playtests, I don't see enough reason at all to fear such a problem, so your idea just seems like a more limited version. I don't think it's an effect you just want to plaster everywhere.
It's an alternative, no? So I'm going to compare it.
Keeping land tokens seperate from your lands is going to make it harder for other players to figure out how much mana you have available. Board complexity is high.
The more unique space is things like making land tokens that don't match with any lands you are playing, through being special lands or by allowing you make basic lands you aren't playing, or getting more copies of specific lands than you are playing.
I don't understand the question.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I'm perfectly fine with:
Foraging Tuskor
Creature - Boar Turtle
Whenever ~ attacks, explore.
Whenever you discover a land card on an exploration, ~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3
It's a parallel design that could easily be taken into a different direction if you were not comparing it to a mechanic from another thread.
To quote myself: "So the mechanics can be analysed with an open mind without having to compete with established ideas."
How would you react to the mechanic without an established idea in mind? Is it an inherently bad keyword action or is it just bad because of a preexisting notion of what you expect "explore" to be?
I wonder whether that's ever brought up with Hedron Crawler.
Are you suggesting those to be keywords or are you under the impression that just because one keyword uses land tokens the whole concept of land tokens are now locked to that mechanic? I don't think one specific use of land tokens precludes any other use. It's not like Clue tokens are the only possible use for artifact tokens.
I'm not getting the meaning behind every entry on the list, so is there something on this list that can be applied here to make a better mechanic?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO