In the past I designed a mechanic for Azorius that I called Decree which would have you name a card then apply an effect to cards with the given name either temporarily or permanently. I felt that a "name-a-card" mechanic would fit the Azorius well and allow for some mechanical versatility. I'd asked Maro about the likelihood of a "name-a-card" mechanic at common, which he indicated unlikely because of memory issues.
Fast forward to recent history where we have Clue artifact tokens and the Conspiracy sets giving us Conspiracies with hidden agenda, allowing us to secretly name a card and write the name down. Letter Bomb from Unhinged and the DFC markers from INN and SOI allow us to write on and mark spaces on cards or cardlike tokens.
I've been inspired to try a new take on the Decree concept:
Transit LegislatorW
Creature - Human Wizard
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Create a colorless Decree artifact token. Write the name of a card on that Decree and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, its controller gains 1 life if it's lawful and loses 1 life if it's unlawful.
1/1
Lyev Address3U
Instant
Declare. (Create a colorless Decree artifact token. Write the name of a card on that Decree and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Each player who controls a lawful permanent draws two cards.
Each player who controls an unlawful permanent discards a card.
Decree
Token Artifact - Decree
The Azorius Senate has ruled that
_______________________________
is henceforth
[_] Lawful [_] Unlawful
Declare is an action word that has you create a Decree artifact token, write the name of a card on that token, then mark it as either lawful or unlawful. Most cards with declare apply different effects to lawful and unlawful cards, generally rewarding playing lawful cards and punishing playing unlawful cards. The use of Decree tokens (which can also be represented by pieces of paper if an actual token is not available) can assist with memory issues, and feels even more flavorful.
While modern design philosophy would normally dictate that positive effects be applied to your own cards and negative effects be applied to your opponents' cards, I thought it would be more interesting if lawful/unlawful status was applied universally to all players and their cards. In the event two Decree tokens name the same card, the more recent Decree takes priority and the old Decree is exiled.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
This is awesome. It's very on-point for flavor without being inherently oppressive, like most Azorius mechanics are (official and custom). Just be careful with the individual card designs.
I really like this! It’s outside of the box in a good way. Have you considered creating emblems instead of artifact tokens? imo it would be a cleaner implementation without losing the flavor or benefits.
Decree (You get a Law emblem. Write the name of a card on that emblem and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Conceptually and mechanically, this is great. It'd probably play interestingly and fun.
Logistically is another story altogether - This would never be acceptable at common, and would even be questionable at uncommon. As a guild mechanic this'd make it out of Design to loud cheers but would get sent back with a big X through it and probably farted on by Development. The actual formatting of the tokens, too, is a big issue: They're basically single-use. They're cool and flavorful but also hinder the logistics of the keyword a ton.
I'd love to see this used in a supplemental set - something like Conspiracy - but it needs a lot of logistical work to ever make it into an ordinary set.
Conceptually and mechanically, this is great. It'd probably play interestingly and fun.
Logistically is another story altogether - This would never be acceptable at common, and would even be questionable at uncommon. As a guild mechanic this'd make it out of Design to loud cheers but would get sent back with a big X through it and probably farted on by Development. The actual formatting of the tokens, too, is a big issue: They're basically single-use. They're cool and flavorful but also hinder the logistics of the keyword a ton.
I'd love to see this used in a supplemental set - something like Conspiracy - but it needs a lot of logistical work to ever make it into an ordinary set.
Besides the "you can only use the official tokens once" issue, what specific logistical concerns do you have with this?
If we're looking for a more standard way of wording this, then aping Clues should work:
Decree (Create a colorless Decree artifact token with "When Decree enters the battlefield, name a card and choose if that card is lawful or unlawful.")
I wouldn't like emblems for this, as I think that would too oppressive. Also, I like how that, if these were artifacts, it would give red, the enemy of both blue and white, a way to destroy them.
Is there a specific reasons you want these to be artifact tokens? You can easily have decrees be markers that are not game objects (e. g. the "The Monarch" card or "Morph"/"Manifest" overlays) and the wording making these tokens is more complicated than seems advisable - and these lack the inherent similarity to nontoken artifacts by having only a static effect which is a notable difference to Clue tokens.
Basically I'd retain "Declare. (Name a card and choose lawful or unlawful.)" maybe throw in "Name an undeclared card and choose lawful or unlawful." as a test case and then be done with it. Note that hidden agenda doesn't tell you to write anything down, neither do DFCs talk about how to use and mark your placeholder cards; hidden agenda asks you to name secretly and leaves the logistics elsewhere.
I think providing material is a good idea, but I'd probably keep it to double-faced or flippable Lawful/Unlawful markers that might be tokens, but don't necessarily need to be tokens.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
My main concern, besides complexity, is that it can probably be very frustrating to try and do unlawful because the opponent might just not have the card, in hand or whatsoever. And then when you just choose lawful, name a card in your hand, and play that next turn. Granted, it is an interesting idea to name a card you intend to play in the near future for a reward, thereby giving information to your opponent but potentially giving you card advantage. It can also be used for fun mind games. The unlawful part does worry me.
Conceptually and mechanically, this is great. It'd probably play interestingly and fun.
Logistically is another story altogether - This would never be acceptable at common, and would even be questionable at uncommon. As a guild mechanic this'd make it out of Design to loud cheers but would get sent back with a big X through it and probably farted on by Development. The actual formatting of the tokens, too, is a big issue: They're basically single-use. They're cool and flavorful but also hinder the logistics of the keyword a ton.
I'd love to see this used in a supplemental set - something like Conspiracy - but it needs a lot of logistical work to ever make it into an ordinary set.
The usual problem with "name a card" mechanics at common is that you have nothing physical to remind players of which card was named. Declare fixes that problem by giving you something physical to refer to whenever a card's lawful/unlawful status is in question.
You can re-use tokens for the same name/legality combination. If you wrote "Pack Rat - Unlawful" on the token, next time you want to make a Pack Rat unlawful you just use the same token.
Besides the "you can only use the official tokens once" issue, what specific logistical concerns do you have with this?
If we're looking for a more standard way of wording this, then aping Clues should work:
Decree (Create a colorless Decree artifact token with "When Decree enters the battlefield, name a card and choose if that card is lawful or unlawful.")
I wouldn't like emblems for this, as I think that would too oppressive. Also, I like how that, if these were artifacts, it would give red, the enemy of both blue and white, a way to destroy them.
I did mention that you can use pieces of paper and write the name + lawful status on those instead of using the official tokens. Because what is a law but words written on paper, really?
Is there a specific reasons you want these to be artifact tokens? You can easily have decrees be markers that are not game objects (e. g. the "The Monarch" card or "Morph"/"Manifest" overlays) and the wording making these tokens is more complicated than seems advisable - and these lack the inherent similarity to nontoken artifacts by having only a static effect which is a notable difference to Clue tokens.
Basically I'd retain "Declare. (Name a card and choose lawful or unlawful.)" maybe throw in "Name an undeclared card and choose lawful or unlawful." as a test case and then be done with it. Note that hidden agenda doesn't tell you to write anything down, neither do DFCs talk about how to use and mark your placeholder cards; hidden agenda asks you to name secretly and leaves the logistics elsewhere.
I think providing material is a good idea, but I'd probably keep it to double-faced or flippable Lawful/Unlawful markers that might be tokens, but don't necessarily need to be tokens.
I did consider simply naming them Decree tokens, but I felt they made sense as artifacts since they're essentially pieces of paper with writing on them, which can easily qualify as an artifact by Magic's definitions.
However, I agree that Declare could be re-worded so that it doesn't expressly mention making a token and writing on it, just as DFCs don't mention checklist tokens and Morph doesn't mention overlays. The Decree token card can be used in that same capacity as an optional aid. I wasn't picturing it as a traditional token anyway; it would look like a piece of parchment.
My main concern, besides complexity, is that it can probably be very frustrating to try and do unlawful because the opponent might just not have the card, in hand or whatsoever. And then when you just choose lawful, name a card in your hand, and play that next turn. Granted, it is an interesting idea to name a card you intend to play in the near future for a reward, thereby giving information to your opponent but potentially giving you card advantage. It can also be used for fun mind games. The unlawful part does worry me.
You can always name a card on the field as unlawful. Don't like that big ogre giving you the stink eye? Make him unlawful, and BAM! All of a sudden he can't attack, or is heavily penalized for doing so.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The usual problem with "name a card" mechanics at common is that you have nothing physical to remind players of which card was named. Declare fixes that problem by giving you something physical to refer to whenever a card's lawful/unlawful status is in question.
You can re-use tokens for the same name/legality combination. If you wrote "Pack Rat - Unlawful" on the token, next time you want to make a Pack Rat unlawful you just use the same token.
Permanents with "name a card" mechanics usually also don't care about other cards that named cards, and the name doesn't stick around after the permanent is gone. It's easier to remember that a single card named a single other card and it only matters while that card is on the battlefield.
Say you play a deck that likes to make things unlawful. Looking at Transit Legislator, you want a lot of Declare cards so you can cast a wider net and get more value out of each card that cares about Lawful/Unlawful. You take it to an FNM and play 4 rounds. Say you play 10 games against 4 unique decks over the course of the night. How many different decree tokens do you think you'll make in the course of one tournament?
A deck that likes to make things unlawful? Sounds like one troll of a bureaucrat. But I see your point. You could just write on a notepad the way I've seen players do for tracking life. That would be another benefit of not relying on tokens. You could also use list tokens with Lawful and Unlawful columns to track multiple cards over the course of a single game with a single token. You don't have to write the card name letter-for-letter as long as everyone in the game understands what card you're referring to.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
A deck that likes to make things unlawful? Sounds like one troll of a bureaucrat. But I see your point. You could just write on a notepad the way I've seen players do for tracking life. That would be another benefit of not relying on tokens. You could also use list tokens with Lawful and Unlawful columns to track multiple cards over the course of a single game with a single token. You don't have to write the card name letter-for-letter as long as everyone in the game understands what card you're referring to.
It's hard enough for me to remember to bring my sleeves and a d20 to FNM. Magic is a card game above all else, so I'm not sure how people would react to bookkeeping becoming a central mechanic out of left field. It's just too much to ask of a player.
It's hard enough for me to remember to bring my sleeves and a d20 to FNM. Magic is a card game above all else, so I'm not sure how people would react to bookkeeping becoming a central mechanic out of left field. It's just too much to ask of a player.
You won't have fun playing Conspiracy and its sequel then?
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Two things:
1. I didn't see anyone list more specifically why this would be a developmental nightmare. My first reaction is yes it would be, but I'd rather use this discussion space to look at the obstacles one by one, rather than just write off the mechanic. So, can anyone list some of the concrete issues they think Development would encounter, and then we can troubleshoot?
2. In order to do this, it will help to have more cards to discuss and tinker with. I'll write up a few, and I'd love to see people add in some of their own. Manite, do you have more Declare cards you've created?
Marketplace Constable2W
Creature - Human
2/2
When Marketplace Constable enters the battlefield, declare. (Create a colorless Decree artifact token. Write the name of a card on that Decree and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Unlawful creatures can't attack or block.
Lawful creatures get +1/+1
Arbitrary ProclamationWU
Enchantment
When Arbitrary Proclamation enters the battlefield, declare.
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player exiles all unlawful permanents he or she controls.
Azorius ArbiterWU
Creature - Human Wizard
2/2
When Azorius Arbiter enters the battlefield, declare.
Players can't cast unlawful spells.
Lawful spells cost 2 less to cast.
Battlefield Magistrate2WU
Creature - Human Soldier Wizard
1/1
At the beginning of your upkeep, declare.
Unlawful creatures don't untap during their controller's untap step.
Lawful creatures have vigilance.
Lyev Captain3W
Creature - Human Soldier
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Lawful creatures you control get +1/+1 and have protection from unlawful creatures.
2/2
Mobilization Decree2W
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Whenever a lawful creature attacks, its controller may create a 1/1 white Soldier creature token tapped and attacking.
Whenever an unlawful creature attacks, the defending player may create a 1/1 white Soldier creature token blocking that creature.
Arbitration of Spellcraft2U
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Lawful spells cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever a player casts an unlawful spell, counter that spell unless its controller pays 1.
Search Warrant3U
Sorcery
Declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Choose one -
* Search your library for a lawful noncreature, nonland card, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
* Search an opponent's library for an unlawful noncreature, nonland card and exile it, then that player shuffles his or her library.
NAME, Jelenn Legislator1WU
Legendary Creature - Human Advisor T: Declare.
Whenever you cast a lawful spell, you may draw a card.
Whenever a player casts an unlawful spell, that player can't cast additional spells this turn.
1/3
A couple design notes:
I think it would be wise to make all Declare cards care about both lawful and unlawful cards, at least of a given subset.
I prefer that Declare cards punish the use of unlawful cards rather than prevent their use outright. Example: Rather than prevent an unlawful creature from attacking, the unlawful creature gets "jail exiled" at the beginning of the end step if it attacked this turn.
I like the parallel on your Battlefield Magistrate, but I would instead shoot for tapping unlawful creatures at the beginning of their owner's end step.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
On one hand, a mechanic designed entirely around nerfing the opponents' stuff doesn't sound as fun (I see this as a problem with Detain), and being able to name cards as lawful provides some build around opportunities, not to mention opens up some design space.
On the other hand, Detain was apparently popular (storm scale 3), and the Azorius' laws seem to be dedicated mostly to stopping things from happening or punishing lawbreakers, so maybe you have a point.
If the lawful part gets removed, then I say the mechanic should be renamed to Outlaw. But how to word that? Do you outlaw a permanent or spell instead of just naming a card?
"Outlaw target creature. (Cards with the same name as that creature become unlawful.)"
If we use Outlaw like that, then it should probably be used as a response trigger or rider, like "Whenever ~ blocks or becomes blocked by a creature, outlaw that creature" or "Counter target noncreature spell. Outlaw that spell."
And if we wanted to use a lawful counterpart in the future, would we call that Authorize? Personally, I still like Declare best, but maybe that's just bias.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The reason I like having both lawful and unlawful is that it is flavorful: the Azorius are arbitrarily dividing things, activities, and people into legal/illegal categories. This is pure Azorius: reward those who please them, prosecute those who don't. Or prosecute whomever, and when the person questions it, just point to the declaration as justification, even if it has no rational or moral justification. And then as a player, you get to play Azorius judge, arbitrarily dividing cards on a whim into the pile of ones you like and the ones you don't. So fun.
But...the outlaw mechanic might be simpler to implement. Sounds like it belongs more in a Wild West themed set, but I can't find a better single word to use instead.
Good old Meddling Mage could become: Azorius MeddlerWU
Creature - Human Wizard
When Azorius Meddler enters the battlefield, outlaw a card. (Name a card. Cards that share a name with that card become unlawful.)
Players can't play unlawful spells.
2/2
Another idea: District Judge2W
Creature - Human
When District Judge enters the battlefield, outlaw target creature. (Cards that share a name with that creature become unlawful.)
Unlawful creatures can't attack unless their controller pays 2.
2/2
Wild West version: Town Sheriff1W
Creature - Human
When Town Sheriff enters the battlefield, outlaw target creature. (Cards that share a name with that creature become unlawful.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, tap target unlawful creature.
1/1
The wording may need some work, and I can also hear Mark Rosewater screaming about the memory issues. But the flavor is great.
I would still retain support tokens for Outlaw and/or Authorize, to help with the memory issues. If the mechanic focuses on just lawful or unlawful, then the token can simply be used as a list of cards thus declared.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
On your new outlaw cards it doesn't seem to need to make them unlawful, all of the cards function if you just use Outlawed 'subset of cards' 'whatever'. With only the one side there is a lot less complexity and it might actually work. If card names become too restrictive for the design you could change it to creature types to allow broader implementation, that way the effect is Outlaw and you always give a subsets of things to outlaw. So you can have something that outlaws creature or non-creature and increases the cost of them. Or even sorcery/instant. Then you can scale to choose creature types or card types with the same mechanic.
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Fast forward to recent history where we have Clue artifact tokens and the Conspiracy sets giving us Conspiracies with hidden agenda, allowing us to secretly name a card and write the name down. Letter Bomb from Unhinged and the DFC markers from INN and SOI allow us to write on and mark spaces on cards or cardlike tokens.
I've been inspired to try a new take on the Decree concept:
Transit Legislator W
Creature - Human Wizard
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Create a colorless Decree artifact token. Write the name of a card on that Decree and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, its controller gains 1 life if it's lawful and loses 1 life if it's unlawful.
1/1
Lyev Address 3U
Instant
Declare. (Create a colorless Decree artifact token. Write the name of a card on that Decree and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Each player who controls a lawful permanent draws two cards.
Each player who controls an unlawful permanent discards a card.
Decree
Token Artifact - Decree
The Azorius Senate has ruled that
_______________________________
is henceforth
[_] Lawful [_] Unlawful
Declare is an action word that has you create a Decree artifact token, write the name of a card on that token, then mark it as either lawful or unlawful. Most cards with declare apply different effects to lawful and unlawful cards, generally rewarding playing lawful cards and punishing playing unlawful cards. The use of Decree tokens (which can also be represented by pieces of paper if an actual token is not available) can assist with memory issues, and feels even more flavorful.
While modern design philosophy would normally dictate that positive effects be applied to your own cards and negative effects be applied to your opponents' cards, I thought it would be more interesting if lawful/unlawful status was applied universally to all players and their cards. In the event two Decree tokens name the same card, the more recent Decree takes priority and the old Decree is exiled.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Decree (You get a Law emblem. Write the name of a card on that emblem and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Logistically is another story altogether - This would never be acceptable at common, and would even be questionable at uncommon. As a guild mechanic this'd make it out of Design to loud cheers but would get sent back with a big X through it and probably farted on by Development. The actual formatting of the tokens, too, is a big issue: They're basically single-use. They're cool and flavorful but also hinder the logistics of the keyword a ton.
I'd love to see this used in a supplemental set - something like Conspiracy - but it needs a lot of logistical work to ever make it into an ordinary set.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Besides the "you can only use the official tokens once" issue, what specific logistical concerns do you have with this?
If we're looking for a more standard way of wording this, then aping Clues should work:
Decree (Create a colorless Decree artifact token with "When Decree enters the battlefield, name a card and choose if that card is lawful or unlawful.")
I wouldn't like emblems for this, as I think that would too oppressive. Also, I like how that, if these were artifacts, it would give red, the enemy of both blue and white, a way to destroy them.
Basically I'd retain "Declare. (Name a card and choose lawful or unlawful.)" maybe throw in "Name an undeclared card and choose lawful or unlawful." as a test case and then be done with it. Note that hidden agenda doesn't tell you to write anything down, neither do DFCs talk about how to use and mark your placeholder cards; hidden agenda asks you to name secretly and leaves the logistics elsewhere.
I think providing material is a good idea, but I'd probably keep it to double-faced or flippable Lawful/Unlawful markers that might be tokens, but don't necessarily need to be tokens.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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The usual problem with "name a card" mechanics at common is that you have nothing physical to remind players of which card was named. Declare fixes that problem by giving you something physical to refer to whenever a card's lawful/unlawful status is in question.
You can re-use tokens for the same name/legality combination. If you wrote "Pack Rat - Unlawful" on the token, next time you want to make a Pack Rat unlawful you just use the same token.
I did mention that you can use pieces of paper and write the name + lawful status on those instead of using the official tokens. Because what is a law but words written on paper, really?
I did consider simply naming them Decree tokens, but I felt they made sense as artifacts since they're essentially pieces of paper with writing on them, which can easily qualify as an artifact by Magic's definitions.
However, I agree that Declare could be re-worded so that it doesn't expressly mention making a token and writing on it, just as DFCs don't mention checklist tokens and Morph doesn't mention overlays. The Decree token card can be used in that same capacity as an optional aid. I wasn't picturing it as a traditional token anyway; it would look like a piece of parchment.
You can always name a card on the field as unlawful. Don't like that big ogre giving you the stink eye? Make him unlawful, and BAM! All of a sudden he can't attack, or is heavily penalized for doing so.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Yeah, I agree with everyone else. Fun design, developmental nightmare.
Say you play a deck that likes to make things unlawful. Looking at Transit Legislator, you want a lot of Declare cards so you can cast a wider net and get more value out of each card that cares about Lawful/Unlawful. You take it to an FNM and play 4 rounds. Say you play 10 games against 4 unique decks over the course of the night. How many different decree tokens do you think you'll make in the course of one tournament?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
It's hard enough for me to remember to bring my sleeves and a d20 to FNM. Magic is a card game above all else, so I'm not sure how people would react to bookkeeping becoming a central mechanic out of left field. It's just too much to ask of a player.
You won't have fun playing Conspiracy and its sequel then?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Two things:
1. I didn't see anyone list more specifically why this would be a developmental nightmare. My first reaction is yes it would be, but I'd rather use this discussion space to look at the obstacles one by one, rather than just write off the mechanic. So, can anyone list some of the concrete issues they think Development would encounter, and then we can troubleshoot?
2. In order to do this, it will help to have more cards to discuss and tinker with. I'll write up a few, and I'd love to see people add in some of their own. Manite, do you have more Declare cards you've created?
Marketplace Constable 2W
Creature - Human
2/2
When Marketplace Constable enters the battlefield, declare. (Create a colorless Decree artifact token. Write the name of a card on that Decree and mark it as lawful or unlawful.)
Unlawful creatures can't attack or block.
Lawful creatures get +1/+1
Arbitrary Proclamation WU
Enchantment
When Arbitrary Proclamation enters the battlefield, declare.
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player exiles all unlawful permanents he or she controls.
Azorius Arbiter WU
Creature - Human Wizard
2/2
When Azorius Arbiter enters the battlefield, declare.
Players can't cast unlawful spells.
Lawful spells cost 2 less to cast.
Battlefield Magistrate 2WU
Creature - Human Soldier Wizard
1/1
At the beginning of your upkeep, declare.
Unlawful creatures don't untap during their controller's untap step.
Lawful creatures have vigilance.
Creature - Human Soldier
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Lawful creatures you control get +1/+1 and have protection from unlawful creatures.
2/2
Mobilization Decree 2W
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Whenever a lawful creature attacks, its controller may create a 1/1 white Soldier creature token tapped and attacking.
Whenever an unlawful creature attacks, the defending player may create a 1/1 white Soldier creature token blocking that creature.
Arbitration of Spellcraft 2U
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Lawful spells cost 1 less to cast.
Whenever a player casts an unlawful spell, counter that spell unless its controller pays 1.
Search Warrant 3U
Sorcery
Declare. (Write the name of a card down and mark that name as lawful or unlawful.)
Choose one -
* Search your library for a lawful noncreature, nonland card, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
* Search an opponent's library for an unlawful noncreature, nonland card and exile it, then that player shuffles his or her library.
NAME, Jelenn Legislator 1WU
Legendary Creature - Human Advisor
T: Declare.
Whenever you cast a lawful spell, you may draw a card.
Whenever a player casts an unlawful spell, that player can't cast additional spells this turn.
1/3
A couple design notes:
I like the parallel on your Battlefield Magistrate, but I would instead shoot for tapping unlawful creatures at the beginning of their owner's end step.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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On the other hand, Detain was apparently popular (storm scale 3), and the Azorius' laws seem to be dedicated mostly to stopping things from happening or punishing lawbreakers, so maybe you have a point.
If the lawful part gets removed, then I say the mechanic should be renamed to Outlaw. But how to word that? Do you outlaw a permanent or spell instead of just naming a card?
"Outlaw target creature. (Cards with the same name as that creature become unlawful.)"
If we use Outlaw like that, then it should probably be used as a response trigger or rider, like "Whenever ~ blocks or becomes blocked by a creature, outlaw that creature" or "Counter target noncreature spell. Outlaw that spell."
And if we wanted to use a lawful counterpart in the future, would we call that Authorize? Personally, I still like Declare best, but maybe that's just bias.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
But...the outlaw mechanic might be simpler to implement. Sounds like it belongs more in a Wild West themed set, but I can't find a better single word to use instead.
Good old Meddling Mage could become:
Azorius Meddler WU
Creature - Human Wizard
When Azorius Meddler enters the battlefield, outlaw a card. (Name a card. Cards that share a name with that card become unlawful.)
Players can't play unlawful spells.
2/2
Another idea:
District Judge 2W
Creature - Human
When District Judge enters the battlefield, outlaw target creature. (Cards that share a name with that creature become unlawful.)
Unlawful creatures can't attack unless their controller pays 2.
2/2
Wild West version:
Town Sheriff 1W
Creature - Human
When Town Sheriff enters the battlefield, outlaw target creature. (Cards that share a name with that creature become unlawful.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, tap target unlawful creature.
1/1
The wording may need some work, and I can also hear Mark Rosewater screaming about the memory issues. But the flavor is great.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.