I'm thinking of EDH when designing but also considering other contemporary constructed formats. Is Buckle, Superior Beast a color pie violation or just a bend? If it's a color pie violation, what color would it need to be to be correct? For Card 2, what color and CMC should this card be?
Buckle, Superior Beast2GGG
Legendary Creature - Beast
Trample
At the beginning of each combat, all nongreen creatures lose trample until end of turn. The same is true for flying, deathtouch, first strike, double strike, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, reach, skulk, and vigilance.
5/4
Card 2
Legendary Creature - ?
Card 2 can't be blocked. 2: Copy target spell or ability an opponent controls that searches his or her library. You may choose new targets for the copy.
2/2
The Archetype of Endurance cycle seemed like a whole cycle of color pie bends to me. Generally, white is the color that removes abilities, though blue sometimes dips its toes into this as well, with spells like Turn to Frog and Imprisoned in the Moon.
"Card 2" could appear solely in mono-blue, based on what you've given it thus far. I would suggest either putting a t in the cost of the activated ability or turning it into a triggered ability. I would also word it "Copy target spell or ability an opponent controls that would cause him or her to search his or her library." I'm not 100% whether that's rules-viable or not, though. I would be tempted to have it read, "Whenever an opponent searches a library, you may pay 2. If you do, search your library for a card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library." This version could be black or blue-black, and Esper-colored wouldn't feel out of place, given white's ability to "make things fair."
Buckle doesn't feel green to me at all. If I were you, I would make it white and toss the trample keyword. I would word the ability using the Archetype template. The other change I'd make is to remove Skulk, as skulk isn't ever green. That brings the ability to... "Non-white creatures can't have or gain trample until end of turn. The same is true for flying, deathtouch, first strike, double strike, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, reach, and vigilance."
I'm not 100% card 2 works. It should probably be worded as a triggered ability as Link advised with some constant effect. I don't think going down the Copy spell route works. depending on the exact effect you end up going with, the card could be blue or black in addition to some other color depending on the effect. A 2/2 unblockable needs to be Blue or Black though.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Buckle doesn't feel green to me at all. If I were you, I would make it white and toss the trample keyword. I would word the ability using the Archetype template. The other change I'd make is to remove Skulk, as skulk isn't ever green. That brings the ability to... "Non-white creatures can't have or gain trample until end of turn. The same is true for flying, deathtouch, first strike, double strike, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, reach, and vigilance."
Green has a history of removing abilities - mostly flying, such as here, here and here - but also other abilities, such as indestructible, infect, shadow, and even flanking. Actually, it looks to me like green is the color that most often removes specific abilities, followed by red and blue. White rarely removes specific abilities. In terms of "lose all abilities" cards, blue actually does this more than white, based on my Gatherer searches. And I think WotC has been pushing blue to dothismore.
So based on past card printings, I think Buckle is fairly on-color. Melira, Archetype of Endurance, and the 16+ other green cards that remove abilities set a pretty good precedent, compared with the other colors.
Green has a history of removing abilities - mostly flying, such as here, here and here - but also other abilities, such as indestructible, infect, shadow, and even flanking. Actually, it looks to me like green is the color that most often removes specific abilities, followed by red and blue. White rarely removes specific abilities. In terms of "lose all abilities" cards, blue actually does this more than white, based on my Gatherer searches. And I think WotC has been pushing blue to dothismore.
So based on past card printings, I think Buckle is fairly on-color. Melira, Archetype of Endurance, and the 16+ other green cards that remove abilities set a pretty good precedent, compared with the other colors.
I'm still not convinced. Green is allowed to hate flying any way it likes, but hating almost any keyword doesn't seem green at all. I also don't think that the transformation effects that you mention in blue are comparable to the effect on Buckle. Honestly, the mechanic of stripping away abilities hasn't really been explored much from what I can tell. The cycle of archetypes exists and a few other one off effects exist like phyrexian splicer, Urborg, and Walking Sponge, but taking away a large number of different abilities enmasse has never been done on a card as far as I can tell. So, I can't really say that it shouldn't be green. What I can say is that I don't see how you can justify the flavor of the effect in Green. In white the ability makes sense, Buckle is just laying down the law and telling all the creatures what they aren't allowed to do. Trample becomes against the rules. The fact that the ability hits so many keywords plays into the white flavor even more by making it seem like the card is at least trying to be fair and symmetrical, even though it really isn't. I could also see the effect in blue as an extension of the transformation effects blue has. In any case, I don't see the flavor on a green card.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
You could easily make this a Muraganda themed card and then it would be on-color.
Something like "All non-green creatures with abilities cannot block".
Card 2
Legendary Creature - ?
Card 2 can't be blocked.
2: Copy target spell or ability an opponent controls that searches his or her library. You may choose new targets for the copy.
2/2
For Buckle, Superior Beast the non-green part while works seems out of place though that may just be because of my second suggestion here. Which is to make it GB rather than single color. Though personally I feel it works best if you go GBW make it all other creatures and have the beast gain those abilities if another creature lost them.
Card 2 needs to be either Blue or Red because you are copying spells or abilities but because of the can't be blocked pushed heavy towards Blue, and I think Black due to the nature of what you are copying. Though Black doesn't seem required it feels right to be there. It should probably cost at least 3 maybe even WUB.
Buckle, Superior Beast1BGW
Legendary Creature - Beast
At the beginning of each combat, all other creatures lose trample until end of turn. The same is true for flying, deathtouch, first strike, double strike, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, reach, and vigilance. For each ability lost by a creature, Buckle gains that ability until end of turn.
5/5
To me, this feels better than trying to box this weird ability-stripping ability into a monocolored creature.
I don't se the problem with ability stripping on a high rarity green card. It does not avoid a particular weaknesses of green and as a combat trigger it plays well into green's combat superiority. Losing abilities is generally not common, so I wouldn't declare another colors supremacy over it. Historically it has appeared more in one color than another, but it often takes different forms and the whole of the design has to be taken into account.
Though ability leeching like seen on the most recent suggestion should probably not appear on a mono-green card. I'm in agreement there. You get too much without having to worry about your own deck building.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Buckle, Superior Beast 2GGG
Legendary Creature - Beast
Trample
At the beginning of each combat, all nongreen creatures lose trample until end of turn. The same is true for flying, deathtouch, first strike, double strike, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, reach, skulk, and vigilance.
5/4
Card 2
Legendary Creature - ?
Card 2 can't be blocked.
2: Copy target spell or ability an opponent controls that searches his or her library. You may choose new targets for the copy.
2/2
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
"Card 2" could appear solely in mono-blue, based on what you've given it thus far. I would suggest either putting a t in the cost of the activated ability or turning it into a triggered ability. I would also word it "Copy target spell or ability an opponent controls that would cause him or her to search his or her library." I'm not 100% whether that's rules-viable or not, though. I would be tempted to have it read, "Whenever an opponent searches a library, you may pay 2. If you do, search your library for a card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library." This version could be black or blue-black, and Esper-colored wouldn't feel out of place, given white's ability to "make things fair."
I'm not 100% card 2 works. It should probably be worded as a triggered ability as Link advised with some constant effect. I don't think going down the Copy spell route works. depending on the exact effect you end up going with, the card could be blue or black in addition to some other color depending on the effect. A 2/2 unblockable needs to be Blue or Black though.
- Manite
Green has a history of removing abilities - mostly flying, such as here, here and here - but also other abilities, such as indestructible, infect, shadow, and even flanking. Actually, it looks to me like green is the color that most often removes specific abilities, followed by red and blue. White rarely removes specific abilities. In terms of "lose all abilities" cards, blue actually does this more than white, based on my Gatherer searches. And I think WotC has been pushing blue to do this more.
So based on past card printings, I think Buckle is fairly on-color. Melira, Archetype of Endurance, and the 16+ other green cards that remove abilities set a pretty good precedent, compared with the other colors.
I'm still not convinced. Green is allowed to hate flying any way it likes, but hating almost any keyword doesn't seem green at all. I also don't think that the transformation effects that you mention in blue are comparable to the effect on Buckle. Honestly, the mechanic of stripping away abilities hasn't really been explored much from what I can tell. The cycle of archetypes exists and a few other one off effects exist like phyrexian splicer, Urborg, and Walking Sponge, but taking away a large number of different abilities enmasse has never been done on a card as far as I can tell. So, I can't really say that it shouldn't be green. What I can say is that I don't see how you can justify the flavor of the effect in Green. In white the ability makes sense, Buckle is just laying down the law and telling all the creatures what they aren't allowed to do. Trample becomes against the rules. The fact that the ability hits so many keywords plays into the white flavor even more by making it seem like the card is at least trying to be fair and symmetrical, even though it really isn't. I could also see the effect in blue as an extension of the transformation effects blue has. In any case, I don't see the flavor on a green card.
- Manite
He could also be multicolored, so that a precedent wouldn't be set for a single color suddenly having the "mass-stripping-of abilities" ability.
Honor Basquiat, is this discussion helpful for you? Or are we just talking amongst ourselves now?
You could easily make this a Muraganda themed card and then it would be on-color.
Something like "All non-green creatures with abilities cannot block".
Cost: WUU
Type: Wizard, Cleric, or Advisor
Card 2 needs to be either Blue or Red because you are copying spells or abilities but because of the can't be blocked pushed heavy towards Blue, and I think Black due to the nature of what you are copying. Though Black doesn't seem required it feels right to be there. It should probably cost at least 3 maybe even WUB.
Buckle, Superior Beast 1BGW
Legendary Creature - Beast
At the beginning of each combat, all other creatures lose trample until end of turn. The same is true for flying, deathtouch, first strike, double strike, haste, hexproof, indestructible, lifelink, menace, reach, and vigilance. For each ability lost by a creature, Buckle gains that ability until end of turn.
5/5
To me, this feels better than trying to box this weird ability-stripping ability into a monocolored creature.
Though ability leeching like seen on the most recent suggestion should probably not appear on a mono-green card. I'm in agreement there. You get too much without having to worry about your own deck building.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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