Part of my quest to create a definitive dragon set was to figure out some dragon-feeling mechanics, abilities that would evoke the image of dragons. I figure, what's more evocative of dragons than a hoard of treasure?
Allure of Gold2W
Sorcery (C)
Put two 1/1 white Bird creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. Hoard 1. (Put a Treasure artifact token onto the battlefield tapped. It has "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".) None in the skies can resist the sheen of gold.
Visions in Fire1R
Sorcery (C)
Exile the top two cards of your library. You can play those cards this turn. Hoard 1.
Haughty Thief1U
Creature - Human Rogue (U)
Prowess
When ~ deals combat damage to a player, sacrifice it and hoard 2. (Put two Treasure artifact tokens onto the battlefield tapped. They have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".) "The dragon's hoard stretches as far as the eye can see. Surely he won't miss a handful of coins..."
Treacherous Dragon2B
Creature - Dragon (U)
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, each opponent hoards 1. (Those players each put a Treasure artifact token onto the battlefield tapped. They have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".)
3/3
Golden Plate3
Artifact - Equipment (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, hoard 1.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each Treasure you control.
Equip 2
Bloomscale Dragon4GGG
Creature - Dragon (R)
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, hoard 7. (Put seven Treasure artifact tokens onto the battlefield tapped. They have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".) 1G: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
7/7
Dragon's Hoard6
Artifact (R)
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, hoard 1. 3, T, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Two main reasons. One is flavour. The other is that I want some cards to mechanically refer to them, and the fact that the Gild token has no subtype makes that difficult to do.
I'm nt against losing the number, but I think there is enough hoard 2+, particularly at higher rarities, to justify it. I could change them to "hoard twice", but at that point, why not just keep the number?
As for Bloomscale's ability, I would rather not have it tap - it is a 7/7 flier, after all - but I may up the cost if need be.
Two main reasons. One is flavour. The other is that I want some cards to mechanically refer to them, and the fact that the Gild token has no subtype makes that difficult to do.
The flavor of dragons hoarding Gold is absolutely perfect. so I don't see the problem there.
imo it would make more sense to retroactively apply the Treasure subtype to existing tokens named Gold rather than introducing a new subtype (just for tokens) that does the exact same thing as an existing token.
Will there be Treasure artifact cards? (I mean, actual cards that go in a deck, not tokens.)
imo it would make more sense to retroactively apply the Treasure subtype to existing tokens named Gold rather than introducing a new subtype (just for tokens) that does the exact same thing as an existing token.
I mean, that's also an option, but either way, the subtype needs to be introduced. Also, they are slightly different - entering the battlefield tapped and requiring a tap to use, which I would rather keep for developmental reasons.
Will there be Treasure artifact cards? (I mean, actual cards that go in a deck, not tokens.)
I was going back and forth on it. Still up in the air, but I'm currently leaning towards no, keep it just on the tokens for the sake of simplicity.
I came up with a similar mechanic for my Western block, which I call Profit. Profit has you put a Gold token onto the battlefield, but otherwise works much like Hoard. You could probably drop the number variable; if you need to Hoard more than once, you can follow Confirm Suspicions's example.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
As I said earlier, I think I have enough hoard 2+ to justify keeping a number - the flexibility of it really helps with development, and it makes the Treasure-based limited archetypes work better if there are enough cards that give you multiple Treasures.
The way I have it set up, the commons and the higher-rarity cards that hoard repeatedly only have hoard 1, while other higher-rarity cards hoard more:
Hellkite Monarch5RW
Creature - Dragon
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, hoard 4.
Treasures you control have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: This artifact deals 2 damage to target attacking or blocking creature".
6/6
IDEA: What if I were to take off the sacrifice? I could absolutely take the number off then, and it would help with flavour - you're not throwing your treasure around, you really are building a hoard. Major con is that it would be developmentally difficult. Worth a test at least?
Eh, if anything you could remove the tapping part of the cost so the token functions more like the Gold tokens made by Gild and King Macar, the Gold-Cursed. Hoard's Treasure tokens are basically a form of burst mana much as Investigate's Clue tokens are a form of cantrip, with the potential for cards to care about Treasure in other ways just as certain cards like Tamiyo's Journal give you extra use for Clues.
The flavor of dragons hoarding Gold is absolutely perfect. so I don't see the problem there.
imo it would make more sense to retroactively apply the Treasure subtype to existing tokens named Gold rather than introducing a new subtype (just for tokens) that does the exact same thing as an existing token.
Will there be Treasure artifact cards? (I mean, actual cards that go in a deck, not tokens.)
I'd just as soon the Gold tokens acquire a Gold subtype so they don't have to bother with the wonky "artifact token named Gold" wording, though I can understand the appeal of a broader Treasure category.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Eh, if anything you could remove the tapping part of the cost so the token functions more like the Gold tokens made by Gild and King Macar, the Gold-Cursed.
This was the original form, but after testing both version, I prefer the tap on there. It not only opens the door for cheaper hoarding (one-drop hoard cards are real difficult when you can crack the Treasure right away), but I also have a mini-theme of cards giving your Treasures other abilities, and it makes developing those much easier.
2. Bloomscale dragon is too strong and easily an infinite enabler, consider toning him down somewhat?
3. Dragons's hoard should be changed to search your library for a permanent card. For flavor reasons, spells can't be hoarded and for balance. A demonic tutor with upsides is a bit strong.
Thank you. The flavour was the biggest deal for me making it.
2. Bloomscale dragon is too strong and easily an infinite enabler, consider toning him down somewhat?
Fair enough. I like the aesthetics of the 7s in the cost, p/t, and hoard number - should the cost of the activated ability go up?
3. Dragons's hoard should be changed to search your library for a permanent card. For flavor reasons, spells can't be hoarded and for balance. A demonic tutor with upsides is a bit strong.
Well, a nine-mana Demonic Tutor, to be fair. That said, I'm not against the idea at all, and you're right about the flavour.
Eh, if anything you could remove the tapping part of the cost so the token functions more like the Gold tokens made by Gild and King Macar, the Gold-Cursed.
This was the original form, but after testing both version, I prefer the tap on there. It not only opens the door for cheaper hoarding (one-drop hoard cards are real difficult when you can crack the Treasure right away), but I also have a mini-theme of cards giving your Treasures other abilities, and it makes developing those much easier.
You are aware that noncreature permanents are not affected by summoning sickness, right? Nothing stops you from tapping and sacrificing the Treasure tokens the turn you spawn them. It just sounds like you assume otherwise.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
You are aware that noncreature permanents are not affected by summoning sickness, right? Nothing stops you from tapping and sacrificing the Treasure tokens the turn you spawn them. It just sounds like you assume otherwise.
Now with the full picture I start to sympathise with the idea to change the Treasure tokens to be even more distinct from tokens named Gold. The main problem here seems to be that two tokens so similar yet so different will create mix ups.
Maybe just adjusting the numbers and removing the sacrifice cost is the way to go, but if you are entirely open to radical ideas here is another approach:
"At the beginning of your upkeep, hoard. (Put a hoard counter on a non-Lair land. It becomes also a Lair and gains 'Whenever this land taps for mana, add one mana of any color to your mana pool.')"
Just as another top-down approach to the hoarding of treasures that expands on the land-theme found on another card in your sample booster elsewhere.
Either way I prefer using subtypes to name the tokens, so that's a plus for Treasure artifact tokens over artifact tokens named Gold.
Maybe just adjusting the numbers and removing the sacrifice cost is the way to go, but if you are entirely open to radical ideas here is another approach:
"At the beginning of your upkeep, hoard. (Put a hoard token on a non-Lair land. It becomes also a Lair and gains 'Whenever this land taps for mana, add one mana of any color to your mana pool.')"
This is actually incredibly similar to a much earlier mechanic I had, only without the dragon flavour, called "grow" (as in, "When ~ enters the battlefield, grow target land" for example). I'm not entirely sure it's the way I should go, but I think it's definitely at least worth a test. Not too sold on the non-Lair restriction if I do go that way, though - any reason that needs to be there?
This is actually incredibly similar to a much earlier mechanic I had, only without the dragon flavour, called "grow" (as in, "When ~ enters the battlefield, grow target land" for example). I'm not entirely sure it's the way I should go, but I think it's definitely at least worth a test. Not too sold on the non-Lair restriction if I do go that way, though - any reason that needs to be there?
Originally it said "Put a hoard counter on a land without a hoard counter", but then I thought 'Well, a land with a dragon's hoard on it would be a lair, right?' and played around with the alternative wording. It's not necessary to utilize the Lairn subtype (though it would interact with another subtheme I spotted in your cards), but you will want to encourage spreading the hoards around several lands - and restricting things to one hoard per land would be simple and flavorful and should help immensely with making the mechanic more developable (since you cannot outgrow your mana base by too much - you'd have to pair hoard cards with actual ramp effects).
Either version of the restriction is fine though.
Private Mod Note
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Allure of Gold - Mechanically solid. The flavor isn't quite a whiff (I assume the birds are attracted by shiny things?), but I think the card should be renamed. An Into the Fray variant should be dubbed "Allure of Gold". It's just too perfect.
Haughty Thief - Prowess just seems like trinket text here. imo drop prowess and make it common. (It would be a pretty cool common.)
Dragon's Hoard - I like all of these cards, but as a casual Commander player, I especially like this design.
Allure of Gold - Mechanically solid. The flavor isn't quite a whiff (I assume the birds are attracted by shiny things?), but I think the card should be renamed. An Into the Fray variant should be dubbed "Allure of Gold". It's just too perfect.
Now that I think on it, it's kind of a perfect name for a "Threaten + hoard" card, isn't it? Right, that's happening. Any suggestions on a new name for this one?
Haughty Thief - Prowess just seems like trinket text here. imo drop prowess and make it common. (It would be a pretty cool common.)
I can certainly cut prowess. Will need to look over the commons to find something to swap this with if I do drop it. Some rejiggering of designs may be required.
SO. I tested the "counter on a land" version of hoard, and while I do like it, I think the token version works better for this set. I do really like it though, and have squirreled it away for a future design. I already have ideas for how to use it. Still not 100% sure on "sacrifice or no" yet. It plays quite well and enhances the flavour a lot, but taking the sacrifice off does make development a lot more difficult. If possible I think I'd do it, but I'm not sure it's better by enough to be worth the hassle of development.
Other changes made:
Dragon's Hoard now only fetches permanent cards. Considering dropping the costs a little and only tutoring artifacts or creatures.
Bloomscale Dragon's activated ability cost up to 2G.
Haughty Thief loses prowess. May drop in rarity if I can find a good switch.
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Allure of Gold 2W
Sorcery (C)
Put two 1/1 white Bird creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. Hoard 1. (Put a Treasure artifact token onto the battlefield tapped. It has "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".)
None in the skies can resist the sheen of gold.
Visions in Fire 1R
Sorcery (C)
Exile the top two cards of your library. You can play those cards this turn. Hoard 1.
Haughty Thief 1U
Creature - Human Rogue (U)
Prowess
When ~ deals combat damage to a player, sacrifice it and hoard 2. (Put two Treasure artifact tokens onto the battlefield tapped. They have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".)
"The dragon's hoard stretches as far as the eye can see. Surely he won't miss a handful of coins..."
Treacherous Dragon 2B
Creature - Dragon (U)
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, each opponent hoards 1. (Those players each put a Treasure artifact token onto the battlefield tapped. They have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".)
3/3
Golden Plate 3
Artifact - Equipment (U)
When ~ enters the battlefield, hoard 1.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each Treasure you control.
Equip 2
Bloomscale Dragon 4GGG
Creature - Dragon (R)
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, hoard 7. (Put seven Treasure artifact tokens onto the battlefield tapped. They have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool".)
1G: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
7/7
Dragon's Hoard 6
Artifact (R)
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, hoard 1.
3, T, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
As for Bloomscale's ability, I would rather not have it tap - it is a 7/7 flier, after all - but I may up the cost if need be.
The flavor of dragons hoarding Gold is absolutely perfect. so I don't see the problem there.
imo it would make more sense to retroactively apply the Treasure subtype to existing tokens named Gold rather than introducing a new subtype (just for tokens) that does the exact same thing as an existing token.
Will there be Treasure artifact cards? (I mean, actual cards that go in a deck, not tokens.)
I was going back and forth on it. Still up in the air, but I'm currently leaning towards no, keep it just on the tokens for the sake of simplicity.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
The way I have it set up, the commons and the higher-rarity cards that hoard repeatedly only have hoard 1, while other higher-rarity cards hoard more:
Grim Plunder 5B
Instant
Destroy target creature. Hoard 2.
Hellkite Monarch 5RW
Creature - Dragon
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, hoard 4.
Treasures you control have "T, Sacrifice this artifact: This artifact deals 2 damage to target attacking or blocking creature".
6/6
I'd just as soon the Gold tokens acquire a Gold subtype so they don't have to bother with the wonky "artifact token named Gold" wording, though I can understand the appeal of a broader Treasure category.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
1. Cool block, love the flavor.
2. Bloomscale dragon is too strong and easily an infinite enabler, consider toning him down somewhat?
3. Dragons's hoard should be changed to search your library for a permanent card. For flavor reasons, spells can't be hoarded and for balance. A demonic tutor with upsides is a bit strong.
Kind regards.
Fair enough. I like the aesthetics of the 7s in the cost, p/t, and hoard number - should the cost of the activated ability go up?
Well, a nine-mana Demonic Tutor, to be fair. That said, I'm not against the idea at all, and you're right about the flavour.
You are aware that noncreature permanents are not affected by summoning sickness, right? Nothing stops you from tapping and sacrificing the Treasure tokens the turn you spawn them. It just sounds like you assume otherwise.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Now with the full picture I start to sympathise with the idea to change the Treasure tokens to be even more distinct from tokens named Gold. The main problem here seems to be that two tokens so similar yet so different will create mix ups.
Maybe just adjusting the numbers and removing the sacrifice cost is the way to go, but if you are entirely open to radical ideas here is another approach:
Either way I prefer using subtypes to name the tokens, so that's a plus for Treasure artifact tokens over artifact tokens named Gold.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
This is actually incredibly similar to a much earlier mechanic I had, only without the dragon flavour, called "grow" (as in, "When ~ enters the battlefield, grow target land" for example). I'm not entirely sure it's the way I should go, but I think it's definitely at least worth a test. Not too sold on the non-Lair restriction if I do go that way, though - any reason that needs to be there?
Originally it said "Put a hoard counter on a land without a hoard counter", but then I thought 'Well, a land with a dragon's hoard on it would be a lair, right?' and played around with the alternative wording. It's not necessary to utilize the Lairn subtype (though it would interact with another subtheme I spotted in your cards), but you will want to encourage spreading the hoards around several lands - and restricting things to one hoard per land would be simple and flavorful and should help immensely with making the mechanic more developable (since you cannot outgrow your mana base by too much - you'd have to pair hoard cards with actual ramp effects).
Either version of the restriction is fine though.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Allure of Gold - Mechanically solid. The flavor isn't quite a whiff (I assume the birds are attracted by shiny things?), but I think the card should be renamed. An Into the Fray variant should be dubbed "Allure of Gold". It's just too perfect.
Haughty Thief - Prowess just seems like trinket text here. imo drop prowess and make it common. (It would be a pretty cool common.)
Dragon's Hoard - I like all of these cards, but as a casual Commander player, I especially like this design.
I can certainly cut prowess. Will need to look over the commons to find something to swap this with if I do drop it. Some rejiggering of designs may be required.
SO. I tested the "counter on a land" version of hoard, and while I do like it, I think the token version works better for this set. I do really like it though, and have squirreled it away for a future design. I already have ideas for how to use it. Still not 100% sure on "sacrifice or no" yet. It plays quite well and enhances the flavour a lot, but taking the sacrifice off does make development a lot more difficult. If possible I think I'd do it, but I'm not sure it's better by enough to be worth the hassle of development.
Other changes made: