How powerful is the following mechanic? Does it share similar design space and power level with convoke?
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
It only counts creatures you control as the spell is being cast. Mana abilities of creatures you control that involve sacrificing themselves as a cost don't count, but if the spell with morale requires a creature to be sacrificed, that creature will help pay the mana if it attacked regardless of whether it's sacrificed.
Anxious Cadet1W Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
2/2
Sky-High Soldier2W Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Flying; morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
2/2
War Golem4 Artifact Creature - Golem {C}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
3/3
Generic Bant Paladin1GWU Creature - Human Soldier {U}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
4/4
Sunlight Squall2RW Instant {U}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player and you gain 4 life.
Spiritual Support4WB Instant {R}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
Put four 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. If ~ was cast during combat on your turn, you may have those tokens enter the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Twin-Bladed Genius5RW Creature - Human Soldier {M}
Flash; Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
Double strike
When ~ enters the battlefield, if no mana was spent to cast it, other creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn.
3/6
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
It only counts creatures you control as the spell is being cast. Mana abilities of creatures you control that involve sacrificing themselves as a cost don't count, but if the spell with morale requires a creature to be sacrificed, that creature will help pay the mana if it attacked regardless of whether it's sacrificed.
Anxious CadetW Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
1/1
Sky-High Soldier2W Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Flying; morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
2/2
War Golem4 Artifact Creature - Golem {C}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
3/3
Generic Bant PaladinGWU Creature - Human Soldier {U}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
3/3
Sunlight Squall2RW Instant {U}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player and you gain 4 life.
Spiritual Support4WB Instant {R}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
Put four 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. If ~ was cast during combat on your turn, you may have those tokens enter the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Twin-Bladed Genius5RW Creature - Human Soldier {M}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
Double strike
When ~ enters the battlefield, if no mana was spent to cast it, other creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn.
3/6
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
This is interesting. It isn't clear-cut one way or the other, but without playtesting I'd argue that this mechanic is weaker than Convoke. Unless it's paired with a mechanic like Bushido or Landfall that makes blocking unfeasible, getting the most out of this mechanic forces you to take risks that Convoke doesn't ask you to make. Convoke allows you to buildup an army, while Morale forces your army to risk dwindling. It's unfortunately the right choice to make it only count creatures you control while casting the spell, due to potential memory issues of crazy boardstate combats. There's also a decent chance players will be frustrated by Morale, wanting to attack to "get value" but unable to do so because of board stalls or opponents being a turn ahead.
With those criticisms out of the way, I think it's a great mechanic. It encourages the game to come to a conclusion; I think it's important for any set to facilitate that and not succumb to slow grinds every game. It provides an exciting hoop for players to jump through, with a meaningful reward waiting for them on the other side. It doesn't seem to be too powerful a mechanic in the vein of Affinity. Most importantly, it's simple, makes sense and is short on word count. I think you've got a winner here.
The text does not make it clear what the mana is paying for, see Convoke has 'your creatures can help cast this spell' and 'as you cast this spell' to clarify that it's the card with the ability being payed for, but this does neither, which is pretty confusing.
The fact that this stacks with multiple Morale cards means I'm thinking it would be both simpler and safer as Morale (This costs less for each creature you attacked with this turn.)
Maybe count opposing creatures for defensive utility?
Morale (This costs less for each creature that attacked this turn.)
This is interesting. It isn't clear-cut one way or the other, but without playtesting I'd argue that this mechanic is weaker than Convoke. Unless it's paired with a mechanic like Bushido or Landfall that makes blocking unfeasible, getting the most out of this mechanic forces you to take risks that Convoke doesn't ask you to make. Convoke allows you to buildup an army, while Morale forces your army to risk dwindling. It's unfortunately the right choice to make it only count creatures you control while casting the spell, due to potential memory issues of crazy boardstate combats. There's also a decent chance players will be frustrated by Morale, wanting to attack to "get value" but unable to do so because of board stalls or opponents being a turn ahead.
With those criticisms out of the way, I think it's a great mechanic. It encourages the game to come to a conclusion; I think it's important for any set to facilitate that and not succumb to slow grinds every game. It provides an exciting hoop for players to jump through, with a meaningful reward waiting for them on the other side. It doesn't seem to be too powerful a mechanic in the vein of Affinity. Most importantly, it's simple, makes sense and is short on word count. I think you've got a winner here.
The criticism you mention is definitely valid, especially the one mentioning players possibly being frustrated by morale. To remedy this frustration, would you say that putting more emphasis on combat tricks with morale would help players get over their frustration somewhat?
I was originally going to have this idea be more of a spells-matter mechanic rather than a creatures-matter one, but then I realized that morale would be a pretty good blend between the two. I think encouraging the game to come to a conclusion is important, but the current version of morale does have its major problems (which I will have fixed at the time of this post).
This ability is very broken, unlike convoke where a creature can usually only pay for one spell, here each creature can help pay for multiple spells.
I can attack with my 4 creatures and cast 4 Sunlight Squalls for free, dealing 16 damage.
Even attacking with 3 creatures and getting a pile of Sky-High Soldiers and Generic Bant Paladins is very broken.
You're absolutely right. I probably should just make the discount by 1 for each of the attacking creatures, rather than also extend it to one mana of the attacking creature's colors.
The text does not make it clear what the mana is paying for, see Convoke has 'your creatures can help cast this spell' and 'as you cast this spell' to clarify that it's the card with the ability being payed for, but this does neither, which is pretty confusing.
The fact that this stacks with multiple Morale cards means I'm thinking it would be both simpler and safer as Morale (This costs less for each creature you attacked with this turn.)
Maybe count opposing creatures for defensive utility?
Morale (This costs less for each creature that attacked this turn.)
I knew there was something else I was forgetting. I was staring at the reminder text thinking that I was missing something, but couldn't exactly figure out what. I'll fix the reminder text as of this post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Looks like my Warcast ability from Zairo; although the wording is a little ambiguous. Does each creature count for one payment?
Any one attacking creature can pay for as many payments as it needs to.
For example, let's say I control two creatures that have attacked this turn. If I cast Sunlight Squall, it will cost RW. Then if I cast War Golem on the same turn, it will cost 2. Casting a Twin-Bladed Genius after that would cost 3RW.
I'm aware that the current reminder text isn't the best at describing what the mechanic does, so I'm open to reminder text suggestions.
Is this essentially Affinity for creatures you control that attacked this turn?
Almost, yeah. But affinity in general has such a negative connotation surrounding it after affinity for artifacts. And affinity is a cost reduction, whereas this is an alternative method of payment.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Morale (This costs less for each creature that attacked this turn.)
+1
I think this version is the most interesting one proposed, though it may need a different name
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Almost, yeah. But affinity in general has such a negative connotation surrounding it after affinity for artifacts. And affinity is a cost reduction, whereas this is an alternative method of payment.
What exactly are you doing to pay though? The creature just has to exist? Can you elaborate the practical or functional distinction between cost reduction and alternate method of payment for this mechanic?
I know why convoke is no longer a cost reduction, but since this does not require an action it seems actually counterproductive to not make morale a cost reduction instead.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Almost, yeah. But affinity in general has such a negative connotation surrounding it after affinity for artifacts. And affinity is a cost reduction, whereas this is an alternative method of payment.
What exactly are you doing to pay though? The creature just has to exist? Can you elaborate the practical or functional distinction between cost reduction and alternate method of payment for this mechanic?
I know why convoke is no longer a cost reduction, but since this does not require an action it seems actually counterproductive to not make morale a cost reduction instead.
Since the previous post, I have changed morale to be a cost-reduction mechanic rather than an alternative-payment mechanic.
But yes, for the cost to be reduced, the creature merely has to exist. It's basically affinity for creatures you control that attacked this turn, although without the negative connotation that affinity brings to the table.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
I like it. I usually cast my spells main phase 2 anyway. This is a fun mechanic that awards attacking. Lots of possibilities. But probably very abusable.
Raise the War Banners3R
Instant
Morale
Creatures you control get +2/+0 until eot
If only red mana was spent to cast ~, creatures you control gain first strike until eot.
Surrounded by NinjasXXU
Instant
Morale
Put X 2/2 Ninja creature tokens onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.
If ~ was cast during your declare attackers phase, instead put X 2/2 Ninja creature tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.
Overwhelming Reinforcements5WW
Sorcery
Morale
Put X 1/1 Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the number of creatures that attacked this turn.
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
It only counts creatures you control as the spell is being cast. Mana abilities of creatures you control that involve sacrificing themselves as a cost don't count, but if the spell with morale requires a creature to be sacrificed, that creature will help pay the mana if it attacked regardless of whether it's sacrificed.
Anxious Cadet 1W
Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
2/2
Sky-High Soldier 2W
Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Flying; morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
2/2
War Golem 4
Artifact Creature - Golem {C}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
3/3
Generic Bant Paladin 1GWU
Creature - Human Soldier {U}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
4/4
Sunlight Squall 2RW
Instant {U}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player and you gain 4 life.
Spiritual Support 4WB
Instant {R}
Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
Put four 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. If ~ was cast during combat on your turn, you may have those tokens enter the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Twin-Bladed Genius 5RW
Creature - Human Soldier {M}
Flash; Morale (As you cast this spell, each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1.)
Double strike
When ~ enters the battlefield, if no mana was spent to cast it, other creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn.
3/6
It only counts creatures you control as the spell is being cast. Mana abilities of creatures you control that involve sacrificing themselves as a cost don't count, but if the spell with morale requires a creature to be sacrificed, that creature will help pay the mana if it attacked regardless of whether it's sacrificed.
Anxious Cadet W
Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
1/1
Sky-High Soldier 2W
Creature - Human Soldier {C}
Flying; morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
2/2
War Golem 4
Artifact Creature - Golem {C}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
3/3
Generic Bant Paladin GWU
Creature - Human Soldier {U}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
3/3
Sunlight Squall 2RW
Instant {U}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
~ deals 4 damage to target creature or player and you gain 4 life.
Spiritual Support 4WB
Instant {R}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
Put four 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield. If ~ was cast during combat on your turn, you may have those tokens enter the battlefield tapped and attacking.
Twin-Bladed Genius 5RW
Creature - Human Soldier {M}
Morale (Each creature you control that attacked this turn pays for 1 or one mana of any of that creature's colors.)
Double strike
When ~ enters the battlefield, if no mana was spent to cast it, other creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn.
3/6
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
With those criticisms out of the way, I think it's a great mechanic. It encourages the game to come to a conclusion; I think it's important for any set to facilitate that and not succumb to slow grinds every game. It provides an exciting hoop for players to jump through, with a meaningful reward waiting for them on the other side. It doesn't seem to be too powerful a mechanic in the vein of Affinity. Most importantly, it's simple, makes sense and is short on word count. I think you've got a winner here.
I can attack with my 4 creatures and cast 4 Sunlight Squalls for free, dealing 16 damage.
Even attacking with 3 creatures and getting a pile of Sky-High Soldiers and Generic Bant Paladins is very broken.
Also Twin-Bladed Genius is pretty useless, you'll only cast him for free after combat, when doublestrike on your team is pretty lackluster.
The fact that this stacks with multiple Morale cards means I'm thinking it would be both simpler and safer as Morale (This costs less for each creature you attacked with this turn.)
Maybe count opposing creatures for defensive utility?
Morale (This costs less for each creature that attacked this turn.)
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
The criticism you mention is definitely valid, especially the one mentioning players possibly being frustrated by morale. To remedy this frustration, would you say that putting more emphasis on combat tricks with morale would help players get over their frustration somewhat?
I was originally going to have this idea be more of a spells-matter mechanic rather than a creatures-matter one, but then I realized that morale would be a pretty good blend between the two. I think encouraging the game to come to a conclusion is important, but the current version of morale does have its major problems (which I will have fixed at the time of this post).
You're absolutely right. I probably should just make the discount by 1 for each of the attacking creatures, rather than also extend it to one mana of the attacking creature's colors.
I knew there was something else I was forgetting. I was staring at the reminder text thinking that I was missing something, but couldn't exactly figure out what. I'll fix the reminder text as of this post.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Any one attacking creature can pay for as many payments as it needs to.
For example, let's say I control two creatures that have attacked this turn. If I cast Sunlight Squall, it will cost RW. Then if I cast War Golem on the same turn, it will cost 2. Casting a Twin-Bladed Genius after that would cost 3RW.
I'm aware that the current reminder text isn't the best at describing what the mechanic does, so I'm open to reminder text suggestions.
Almost, yeah. But affinity in general has such a negative connotation surrounding it after affinity for artifacts. And affinity is a cost reduction, whereas this is an alternative method of payment.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
+1
I think this version is the most interesting one proposed, though it may need a different name
- Manite
I know why convoke is no longer a cost reduction, but since this does not require an action it seems actually counterproductive to not make morale a cost reduction instead.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Since the previous post, I have changed morale to be a cost-reduction mechanic rather than an alternative-payment mechanic.
But yes, for the cost to be reduced, the creature merely has to exist. It's basically affinity for creatures you control that attacked this turn, although without the negative connotation that affinity brings to the table.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Raise the War Banners 3R
Instant
Morale
Creatures you control get +2/+0 until eot
If only red mana was spent to cast ~, creatures you control gain first strike until eot.
Surrounded by Ninjas XXU
Instant
Morale
Put X 2/2 Ninja creature tokens onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.
If ~ was cast during your declare attackers phase, instead put X 2/2 Ninja creature tokens onto the battlefield tapped and attacking. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.
Overwhelming Reinforcements 5WW
Sorcery
Morale
Put X 1/1 Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield, where X is the number of creatures that attacked this turn.