I have been tinkering with phasing a bit but obviously phasing has SO MANY issues. I have been looking for a way to have a "fixed phasing" but I wonder if even fixed phasing is too complex. Anyway...
Untethered Aven3UU
Creature - Aven Wizard (R)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
Flying
When Untethered Aven enters the battlefield, return target creature to its owner's hand.
2/2
Untethered Goblin3R
Creature - Goblin Shaman (U)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
When Untethered Goblin enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player
2/2
Untethered NacatlG
Creature - Cat Warrior (C)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
3/3
A) Is this mechanic too complex?
B) Can it be more simply worded?
C) Does it even work the way it is currently worded?
D) This has obvious problems with mechanic like Delve when you could in theory Delve a handful of these and create a pseudo Living Death.
E) Is Phasing actually too complex?
but obviously phasing has SO MANY issues. I have been looking for a way to have a "fixed phasing" but I wonder if even fixed phasing is too complex. Anyway...
Untethered Aven3UU
Creature - Aven Wizard (R)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
Flying
When Untethered Aven enters the battlefield, return target creature to its owner's hand.
2/2
Untethered Goblin3R
Creature - Goblin Shaman (U)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
When Untethered Goblin enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player
2/2
Untethered NacatlG
Creature - Cat Warrior (C)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
3/3
A) Is this mechanic too complex?
B) Can it be more simply worded?
C) Does it even work the way it is currently worded?
D) This has obvious problems with mechanic like Delve when you could in theory Delve a handful of these and create a pseudo Living Death.
E) Is Phasing actually too complex?
My real question is this...
Why is exiling my guy half the time good gameplay? I don't see it being a fun mechanic even with 0 complexity, so with admitted complexity I don't understand why you'd want it.
Reworks of phasing tend to have the same telltale scent of the, "look at this weird thing I made work" that gave rise to Oddysey and the players being sad about it.
i think even if it DOES work complexity wise, its probably gonna be pretty broken with all the etb effects all over. wotc has made things that are sacced at the end of turn/returned to the hand at the end of turn; those are like your untethered, except they require a mana cost to keep them coming back.
phasing is harder to break cuz it doesn't trigger etb effects. and besides, like stairc said, why would any players want to do this in the first place?
Of recent MaRo stated that they don't do nesting keywords anymore like this one because of it the complexity it creates. So this shouldn't have haste in it. Changing the exile timing to the beginning of your end step is your only option, so that when its back from your pervious trun its already been under your control since your untap step so you can attack with it. Also this lets you cost things a little lower since you still get entering & leaving the battlefied effect but the permanent goes away that turn. This way you dont get color pie breaks like a 2/2 blue flyer with haste.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Of recent MaRo stated that they don't do nesting keywords anymore like this one because of it the complexity it creates. So this shouldn't have haste in it. Changing the exile timing to the beginning of your end step is your only option, so that when its back from your pervious trun its already been under your control since your untap step so you can attack with it. Also this lets you cost things a little lower since you still get entering & leaving the battlefied effect but the permanent goes away that turn. This way you dont get color pie breaks like a 2/2 blue flyer with haste.
Remember, not everything that MaRo says needs to be followed when creating custom cards, and so his words shouldn't be cited on every single topic in card and mechanic design.
Whether the mechanic should grant haste really depends on whether players intuitively think that the creature should be able to attack the turn they enter the battlefield from exile. Personally speaking, a mechanic that gives board presence only half the time should compensate me with the creature having haste.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Of recent MaRo stated that they don't do nesting keywords anymore like this one because of it the complexity it creates. So this shouldn't have haste in it. Changing the exile timing to the beginning of your end step is your only option, so that when its back from your pervious trun its already been under your control since your untap step so you can attack with it. Also this lets you cost things a little lower since you still get entering & leaving the battlefied effect but the permanent goes away that turn. This way you dont get color pie breaks like a 2/2 blue flyer with haste.
Personally speaking, a mechanic that gives board presence only half the time should compensate me with the creature having haste.
Free repeating entering and leaving the battlefield effects aren't compensation enough? Someone is a greedy spike. Seriously the first example card is free creature bounce every time it comes back. It doesn't need haste on the first casting as well.
Thought I stand corrected on the need for it to leave and return at the end of its owners turn to not need to give it haste. Changing the timing to the untap step should allow the creature to attack when returning from exile since the player will have controlled it since his or her untap step.
@ Koopa- With some adjustments I think I may have a version that works. And without the need to nest another keyword into it that goes outside a colors abilities.
Untethered (At the beginning of its owners untap step, if this card is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. Otherwise exile it.)
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Free repeating entering and leaving the battlefield effects aren't compensation enough? Someone is a greedy spike. Seriously the first example card is free creature bounce every time it comes back.
The first card that's mentioned is a rare and has relatively low power and toughness for its mana cost. Plus, there's an entire turn where the creature is just sitting there vulnerable to removal, so the controller of the creature would have to protect it rather well in order to pull off the repeated bounce effect that they desire.
Thought I stand corrected on the need for it to leave and return at the end of its owners turn to not need to give it haste. Changing the timing to the untap step should allow the creature to attack when returning from exile since the player will have controlled it since his or her untap step.
Changing the timing to the untap step wouldn't work, since abilities that trigger during the untap step resolve in the upkeep step. Even if it were changed so that it weren't a triggered ability, because there's a point in the untap step where the creature isn't controlled by the player (namely, at the point right as the untap step begins, before permanents are untapped), it wouldn't be able to attack unless it had haste.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
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Untethered Aven 3UU
Creature - Aven Wizard (R)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
Flying
When Untethered Aven enters the battlefield, return target creature to its owner's hand.
2/2
Untethered Goblin 3R
Creature - Goblin Shaman (U)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
When Untethered Goblin enters the battlefield, it deals 1 damage to target creature or player
2/2
Untethered Nacatl G
Creature - Cat Warrior (C)
Untetherd (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this card is on the battlefield, exile it. If it is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. It has haste.)
3/3
A) Is this mechanic too complex?
B) Can it be more simply worded?
C) Does it even work the way it is currently worded?
D) This has obvious problems with mechanic like Delve when you could in theory Delve a handful of these and create a pseudo Living Death.
E) Is Phasing actually too complex?
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
This was your first mistake.
My real question is this...
Why is exiling my guy half the time good gameplay? I don't see it being a fun mechanic even with 0 complexity, so with admitted complexity I don't understand why you'd want it.
Reworks of phasing tend to have the same telltale scent of the, "look at this weird thing I made work" that gave rise to Oddysey and the players being sad about it.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
phasing is harder to break cuz it doesn't trigger etb effects. and besides, like stairc said, why would any players want to do this in the first place?
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Remember, not everything that MaRo says needs to be followed when creating custom cards, and so his words shouldn't be cited on every single topic in card and mechanic design.
Whether the mechanic should grant haste really depends on whether players intuitively think that the creature should be able to attack the turn they enter the battlefield from exile. Personally speaking, a mechanic that gives board presence only half the time should compensate me with the creature having haste.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Free repeating entering and leaving the battlefield effects aren't compensation enough? Someone is a greedy spike. Seriously the first example card is free creature bounce every time it comes back. It doesn't need haste on the first casting as well.
Thought I stand corrected on the need for it to leave and return at the end of its owners turn to not need to give it haste. Changing the timing to the untap step should allow the creature to attack when returning from exile since the player will have controlled it since his or her untap step.
@ Koopa- With some adjustments I think I may have a version that works. And without the need to nest another keyword into it that goes outside a colors abilities.
Untethered (At the beginning of its owners untap step, if this card is exiled, put it onto the battlefield under it’s owners control. Otherwise exile it.)
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
The first card that's mentioned is a rare and has relatively low power and toughness for its mana cost. Plus, there's an entire turn where the creature is just sitting there vulnerable to removal, so the controller of the creature would have to protect it rather well in order to pull off the repeated bounce effect that they desire.
Changing the timing to the untap step wouldn't work, since abilities that trigger during the untap step resolve in the upkeep step. Even if it were changed so that it weren't a triggered ability, because there's a point in the untap step where the creature isn't controlled by the player (namely, at the point right as the untap step begins, before permanents are untapped), it wouldn't be able to attack unless it had haste.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall