Inspired by a mix of Rosewater's hints about a mechanic he's hoping to one day get in a set, I present Herald.
Herald of Thunder - 1R
Creature
Herald - When Herald of Thunder enters the battlefield, shuffle up to four cards named Thunder Crash you own from outside the game into your library.
2/1
Thunder Crash - R
Instant - Forbidden
(You cannot begin a game with forbidden cards in your library).
Deal 4 damage to target creature or player.
A similar mechanic has proved enjoyable in Solforge (forming the backbone of the whole game), and continues playing with the "Sideboard as resource" space for a wrinkle in competitive play. I think the fun of improving your deck as you play, and the ability for players to feel clever for searching out or re-using the forbidden cards once they get them into their deck is very cool. The added shuffling of the mechanic annoys me of course, and the possibility of never drawing a forbidden card is possibly quite frustrating too though. I'm not sure if it would play well in practice, but I'd be interested in seeing it tried out.
'You own from outside the game' is such a 'remove from the game' wording. I think there's a lot of design space in sideboard fetching, but it should just be referred as "search your sideboard." If combat rules can change casual games, just also change it so all decks (may) have 15 card sideboards. And if it were up to me, I'd also preemptively change sideboards so they are 15 cards + 5 basic lands, just so we can get non-shuffling fetchlands or other sort of non-shuffling fixing mechanics.
This is interesting, but super parasitic, and unfeasible in draft, I fear.
Following Legend's suggestion would help minimize the parasitism, but it'd still be an issue. And it does undermine the flavor, admittedly.
If the flavor was expanded - a certain kind of cards can 'unlock' the special forbidden cards, bringing them into the game - it might work. But it's still very parasitic.
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I think expanding to any herald shuffling in any forbidden card would be a good evolution for this system.
Perhaps limit it to sharing color too...
Herald - When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, shuffle up to four red Forbidden cards with the same name from your sideboard into your library.
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MEMNARCH FOR PRESIDENT!!!
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
I feel like there are some problems with using Forbidden as a subtype that you can solve by making it a supertype instead: it carries rules baggage, and using a subtype sharply restricts the card types it can be on. Plus, "Forbidden Sorcery" sounds cooler than "Sorcery - Forbidden."
Forbidden Sorcery and Forbidden Enchantment definitely sound cooler than Sorcery - Forbidden and so-on. Also, it'd be difficult to do forbidden creatures with it being a subtype (Rulesy things).
I'm not sure how I feel about the color-specific versions suggested by Ie Magin. It's not exactly necessary, because you'd still have to pay colored costs on the overpowered Forbidden spells. It does bring back one aspect of the original post's execution though, accessing a certain subset of forbidden spells rather than getting any forbidden magic you want from any herald.
Nothing here has limited it just to shuffling. The core idea is playing cards that make your deck more powerful overall. This could take the form of putting the cards in Nth from the top of your library. Shuffling them in also works (though is more time-consuming and might be more frustating). It might vary based on the card, or all the effects might be unified.
The core though is the twin concept of powering up your library (in casual or competitive) and sacrificing sideboard space for power (in competitive).
It's definitely a challenge in limited. But actually... Thinking about it, it's possible if the heralds are open-ended enough, and/or can be playable without forbidden cards. For example, if there was a dedicated sot for forbidden cards - 1 in each booster pack (like DFCs in innistrad).
Of course, to make it work in limited, you'd need to only pull 1 forbidden card at a time (put into the top N cards of your deck, rather than 4 shuffled into the whole deck).
Won't forbidden cards just be "X but cheaper"? If not, can I get an example of where else this design space goes?
Not sure what to say here. The only restriction Forbidden cards have is that they should be overpowered compared to normal cards. That gives them as much design space as the rest of magic has combined, just cheaper. You could focus the mechanic to only riff off of cards that have been banned for being too awesome (such as Ancestral Recall, Balance, Mana Drain and so on - which would be a nice meta-gag. It's not required though. The place this magic serves would have to be determined by the reason its product choose to use it. It's a very flexible concept. Whether it's actually fun though... Remains to be seen.
Edit: Also, where did Rosewater hint at something like this?
Rosewater has repeatedly hinted that he's designed a mechanic called "forbidden" and has refused to give details on it due to hoping it'll one day get in a set. Recently he mentioned that the inspiration for the mechanic came from a joke deck Richard Garfield made in which he shuffled useless cards called "gunk" into the opponents' deck. Following the inspiration, it gave me the idea of shuffling good cards into your own deck instead of bad cards into your opponents' deck.
The inspiration was basically that, yes, Prai_on. We don't actually know what Mark Rosewater's "Forbidden" is, though.
My guess was along similar lines to Stairc's - especially since he was trying to use it in Avacyn Restored, which has a flavor of divine intervention, demonic power, and so on and so forth. Very fitting to accessing 'forbidden' magic.
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Herald of Thunder - 1R
Creature
Herald - When Herald of Thunder enters the battlefield, shuffle up to four cards named Thunder Crash you own from outside the game into your library.
2/1
Thunder Crash - R
Instant - Forbidden
(You cannot begin a game with forbidden cards in your library).
Deal 4 damage to target creature or player.
A similar mechanic has proved enjoyable in Solforge (forming the backbone of the whole game), and continues playing with the "Sideboard as resource" space for a wrinkle in competitive play. I think the fun of improving your deck as you play, and the ability for players to feel clever for searching out or re-using the forbidden cards once they get them into their deck is very cool. The added shuffling of the mechanic annoys me of course, and the possibility of never drawing a forbidden card is possibly quite frustrating too though. I'm not sure if it would play well in practice, but I'd be interested in seeing it tried out.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
P.S. - I deplore Solforge for being wildly overpriced, which might be tolerable if it had a trade system.
Following Legend's suggestion would help minimize the parasitism, but it'd still be an issue. And it does undermine the flavor, admittedly.
If the flavor was expanded - a certain kind of cards can 'unlock' the special forbidden cards, bringing them into the game - it might work. But it's still very parasitic.
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Perhaps limit it to sharing color too...
Herald - When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, shuffle up to four red Forbidden cards with the same name from your sideboard into your library.
All cards I post are designed for custom sets...just saying
Don't hold so fast to your idea of what Magic and the Color Pie is or should be. Just because it was done in the past, but isn't done in the present doesn't mean it can't be done at all. Likewise, just because it wasn't done at all doesn't mean it can't be done.
Here's a tip: If you suggest changing a card...it's helpful to suggest HOW it should be changed.
I'm not sure how I feel about the color-specific versions suggested by Ie Magin. It's not exactly necessary, because you'd still have to pay colored costs on the overpowered Forbidden spells. It does bring back one aspect of the original post's execution though, accessing a certain subset of forbidden spells rather than getting any forbidden magic you want from any herald.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
What exactly is the design space here? Sacrificing sideboard flexibility for power?
The core though is the twin concept of powering up your library (in casual or competitive) and sacrificing sideboard space for power (in competitive).
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
This could be a cool mechanic in a stand alone product like Conspiracy.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Of course, to make it work in limited, you'd need to only pull 1 forbidden card at a time (put into the top N cards of your deck, rather than 4 shuffled into the whole deck).
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Edit: Also, where did Rosewater hint at something like this?
Not sure what to say here. The only restriction Forbidden cards have is that they should be overpowered compared to normal cards. That gives them as much design space as the rest of magic has combined, just cheaper. You could focus the mechanic to only riff off of cards that have been banned for being too awesome (such as Ancestral Recall, Balance, Mana Drain and so on - which would be a nice meta-gag. It's not required though. The place this magic serves would have to be determined by the reason its product choose to use it. It's a very flexible concept. Whether it's actually fun though... Remains to be seen.
Rosewater has repeatedly hinted that he's designed a mechanic called "forbidden" and has refused to give details on it due to hoping it'll one day get in a set. Recently he mentioned that the inspiration for the mechanic came from a joke deck Richard Garfield made in which he shuffled useless cards called "gunk" into the opponents' deck. Following the inspiration, it gave me the idea of shuffling good cards into your own deck instead of bad cards into your opponents' deck.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
My guess was along similar lines to Stairc's - especially since he was trying to use it in Avacyn Restored, which has a flavor of divine intervention, demonic power, and so on and so forth. Very fitting to accessing 'forbidden' magic.
Lead Tesla, a community set designed by everyone and led by me, over at Goblin Artisans. Index of articles here!