Good Listen, as always. I think this episode will keep most people very easily entertained as the focus on custom card design is something everyone here has in common.
I liked how you broke down the card critique today into spreading out its ideas. Also, I know I've talk to Stairc a lot lately and it was funny to hear Wither get involved followed by a Superman card as those are two topics we've bridged. I do like the solutions presented here.
If anything, I may write a 2 part article on World Building/Virtual Worlds as a juncture to talk about Top Down v. Bottom Up design. I'm sure these are topics you're considering for your show, so I'd love to talk to you more about it and how I'm planning to tackle it.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Well, now it's my turn to thank you for the shoutout! The tables were actually something I was thinking about doing for some time, the idea came to me when I read MaRo saying that it's impossible to write down the mechanical color pie because it's constantly evolving (I think it was in a Blogatog post). I thought that anyway it should be possible to take a "snapshot" of it at a given time. Then, when I started writing the series, I thought that an article about the color pie was the ideal place to do that. And it didn't actually take as much time as I think it looks like. For example, I only wrote the first rules reference and then let Excel do the rest. I didn't write all those by hand.
On the episode itself: to me, this is the best episode of the first three, but as I've already said I'm probably biased in that, not because you talked about me, but because I prefer the talk about Magic specifically, even if I perfectly understand that the generic parts apply to Magic too. Anyway, I liked very much the design challenges.
By the way, let me say both of you are awesome too!
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016 DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for: "Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index.Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Thanks everyone for the kind words. We're having so much fun doing this podcast. Thanks especially to Moon-E for coming on the show too, it was great to have you.
Teaser... Next episode will feature the reveal of a new MTG format we've been working on, Dreamscape's newly discovered design goal and another design-a-card challenge between Moon-E and I. The topic's going to be cool too, and extremely practical (less big concept theory than usual and focused explicitly on how to use it in specific design).
How does everyone feel about the length of the cast? I've said before that I prefer shorter casts, but I bring it up again as an issues of accessibility. Basically I shared this with a good number of people and most of them just didn't have the time to listen to it, which is a shame. A shorter running time drastically lowers the barrier of entry, especially for non-enfranchised designers. I don't think we want every episode to be as short as say Drive to Work, but I think changing up the structure a bit might be a good idea. For instance, maybe certain episodes are long and others are short. Or maybe "design challenges" becomes it's own, shorter segment that gets posted separately?
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Xithilid and Narial are very cool designs. The only change I'd make is to remove lifelink from superman. He has never been about healing the sick or anything. It would also make him at least possible to beat. Apart from lifelink, superman is great. He flies, is indestructible, and is always vigilant keeping an eye out for bad guys. He will even sacrifice himself to protect everyone else, but of course its only a comic book death. Perfect...
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Great to hear from both of you. Glad to hear the design challenges are going over so well. The bi-weekly half-length episodes are definitely an intriguing possibility, perhaps one being more conceptual and the other being more "critique/design in action". I'll bring it up with Reuben.
Also Harlannowick, glad to hear you like our mythics. I think Xithilid is my favorite of the three cards we did, I'd love to build a commander deck around her. As for lifelink on superman, I think you're absolutely correct and I agree that it doesn't fit superman literally. Just to explain what we were thinking, we were doing our own character inspired by superman, the way Heliod is inspired by Zeus or Olivia Voldaren is inspired by Dracula. This gave us some room to play around with the creative elements if we felt the urge, and putting lifelink on the card felt like a nice way for the card to differentiate itself from Akroma and Avacyn.
It also does provide the emotional feeling you have with Superman, when he's out your side feels kind of invincible (lifelink will do that). If you were under a lot of pressure on the field, like by 5 1/1 tokens and you're at 5 life with no creatures... Playing Superman without lifelink doesn't make you feel "saved". With lifelink, you feel saved against any pressure.
So emotionally and creatively I feel it works. But it's worth noting that the card hasn't gone through development yet, who might well decide that the lifelink makes the card unbeatable (and it's clearly a ridiculous reanimation target). All those concerns are absolutely valid. Luckily, that's not design's problem. At least not this early in the process.
The discussion on Ribbon Style Master was amazing. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it felt weird. You disassembled it perfectly. This card for half the cost with half the stats would be much better. I would also prefer wording "As long as ~ is attacking, sorceries and instants you control cost 1 less to cast.".
Glad you enjoyed it. Was definitely an interesting card to talk about.
Of the three cards I like the idol the most - the simplicity is great. The spider is nice too, but I really dislike the Superman. It is partially because actual Superman is a terrible character, but I would very much prefer if you went after the "his greatest weakness is that he cares too much" like. The card you made feels like something a 13 years old would make.
So emotionally and creatively I feel it works. But it's worth noting that the card hasn't gone through development yet, who might well decide that the lifelink makes the card unbeatable (and it's clearly a ridiculous reanimation target). All those concerns are absolutely valid. Luckily, that's not design's problem. At least not this early in the process.
You should have stapled hexproof on it too. This way white can beat it for the low low price of W
I know you're kidding, but I'll answer anyway. =)
Superman has often allowed himself to be put in jail when he felt it was right, struggled with pacifism and has been humbled before. I like him being weak to white's unique forms of removal here.
Of the three cards I like the idol the most - the simplicity is great. The spider is nice too, but I really dislike the Superman. It is partially because actual Superman is a terrible character, but I would very much prefer if you went after the "his greatest weakness is that he cares too much" like. The card you made feels like something a 13 years old would make.
When it came to Super Man, I think there were two main concepts at work: the akroma style super creature, and the sacrificial hero. In hindsight, I think this card could have benefited from being one or the other. I agree that "keyword soup" is usually something you should avoid in design, but when the character you're portraying is known for having tons of natural abilities it could work well. Unfortunately, I think the second ability (which is super flavorful) actually detracts from the keywords, making them seem like fluff (like they do on most bad keyword soup cards). Plus, since we'd already filled it with keywords, we didn't have room for the "cares too much" downside.
Basically I think the lesson here is that sometimes combining abilities works well (like on our Spider Lord), while sometimes it sends mixed messages. I think perhaps we should have ended up with two designs similar to the ones below, than chosen between them:
Life Saver2WWW
Legendary Creature - Human (M)
Indestructible, Flying, Undying
At the beginning of each end step, if another creature you control died this turn, sacrifice ~. Then, return each creature card put into your graveyard this turn to the battlefield.
4/4
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
This is a fun discussion to have. We're basically going through the development process here, now that the core design is done. For my own aesthetics, regardless of the inspiration, I think I'd cut either Lifelink, Indestructible or Undying. For the inspiration, I think the card does a very good job of appealing to the people it's designed to appeal to. I don't think a mid-sized guy that can sacrifice itself to save the rest of your permanents is that exciting though, we've already seen a bunch of those before. The wow factor is gone. I really like the pairing of the huge super-creature that is unkillable... But can sacrifice itself to save everything else you control. That's a very appealing design to me. I also think it can be quite elegant. If it wasn't for the goofy prompt, I'd have advocated cutting one of its keyword abilities (not the sacrifice one) - as came up in the podcast. But Superman does feel like he's got a truly unnecessary amount of added abilities (AND he has heat vision?!), so I feel it fulfilled the spirit of the prompt. It definitely reads well to the Timmy folks.
Life Saver kind of looks like a mess to me though, in its current version. Feels hard to parse. Without knowing the design logic behind it, it just sort of reads as "It's super hard to kill AND it's super easy to kill BUT it'll bring the other thing back that you killed AND it'll come back again once..." Seems like it combined even more ideas than we did for our superman inspiration.
That Superman discussion was really intereing. This is what I came up with:
Our design team for this set had a very long, in-depth discussion about transform. There were two main sides of the argument: the pro-transform side argued that double identities was an important super hero trope that deserved to be a major mechanic. The anti-transform side argued that secret identities weren't actually fun to play with, as they didn't reinforce the superhero fantasy (nobody wants their Superman card to get stuck in Clark Kent mode).
Eventually the anti-transform side won, based on the idea that the most important part of a secret identity is the secret part. Morph was discussed for a while as a replacement, but we ended up using neither (especially since our creative when in the direction of a world full of well-known celebrity heroes). Ultimately I think we made the right decision: Unlike werewolves where being unable to control the transformation is a key part of the flavor and feel, super heroes are emotionally about power fantasies, and having your hero locked in "normal-mode" wasn't nearly as resonant.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
That's a neat take on it, never even thought about using transform here. It'd be a little odd in practice because it encourages you to continually deal damage to yourself in order to keep him in Superman mode, but the core idea is super flavorful.
Yet another great podcast guys! Keep up the good work!
I was really excited and super appreciative of the shout-out for the Custom Card Creation Handbook. (For anyone reading this right now, I am currently accepting submissions for the Rules Text Style Guide section of the Handbook.)
I still feel 80ish minutes is long for the show, but I've mostly made peace with that at this point. I like the podcast enough that I'll make the time for it.
I really liked the design challenges. It was interesting to hear all of you go through a live design process and I think you ended up with three really cool cards. The spider lord hits the laying eggs/infestation note well and is a good fit for a spider lord. As someone who loves Wee Dragonauts, Halcyon Glaze, red burn, and weenie aggro, I would love to play Hover Idol in a deck. I really liked how the Superman guy turned out. The card is a bit over-the-top, but it's depicting Superman, so I think it should be over the top. Personally, I didn't like Superman either until I watched The Justice League, which does a good job of showing that, under all of his god-like power, Superman is just a humble farm boy from Kansas. I think this card does a good job of alluding to this humanity as well as depicting his awesome power.
One of the reasons I hate "keyword soup" designs, apart from being sort of lazy, is that the interaction between keywords is so strong it results in an incredibly un-fun experience. An indestructible flying vigilant lifelinker is basically impossible to beat, and as a result needs to cost crazy amounts of mana. Yet, superman never seemed larger-than-life to me; He's more like a Planeswalker (insane power at a reasonable price) than an Eldrazi (ridiculous stats for a ridiculous cost). How could we bring the cost down without losing the awesome keyword flavor? Well, Magic already has a "Superman": Morphling.
Zenith, Hero of Sol3WW
Legendary Creature - Human (M) W: ~ gains your choice of flying, vigilance, lifelink, double strike, or indestructible until end of turn. 1WW, Sacrifice ~: Permanents you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
5/5
This card is based on one version of our superman analogue that really played up the "solar powered" aspect, drawing all of his powers directly from the sun and making it the centerpiece of his hero identity. By giving an activation cost to his keywords, you still allow for insane power, but open up some windows for counterplay (whereas the previous version had little to none).
IMO, this card captures the same keyword mash-up flavor without being brutal to play against. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Zenith, Hero of Sol3WW
Legendary Creature - Human (M) W: ~ gains your choice of flying, vigilance, lifelink, double strike, or indestructible until end of turn. 1WW, Sacrifice ~: Permanents you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
5/5
Seems broken in Commander. Evasive, hard to kill, and double strike make for an absurd EDH commander. Thats develpment though I suppose.
I feel like for superman, you just have to go to the core of what superman is. Namely, superman is...
1. invulnerable
2. Capable of flight
3. Heightened senses
4, Non-offensive
5. Protects people
...So, flying is obviously a must. He also needs some type of protective ability and some way of protecting other permanents. I'd probably go with something like 'If a creature you control would be dealt damage, prevent that damage.' This would wrap his protection and ability to protect into a single concise ability. I also think Supe should be an angel not a human. Angels are beings who come from the sky that fly and protect stuff along with being strongly associated with white. All of that describes Superman as well. It also lets us get away from the problem of 'too large of humans'. Finally, superman isn't human, he;s kryptonian. That brings me to...
Name Cost
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying
If a creature you control would be dealt damage, prevent that damage.
X/Y
...Is this a direction worth pursuing, Or is this already down a wrong path? As is, the card still needs more 'wow' in its abilities.
EDIT: Does anyone feel like Dr. Manhattan would make for a much more interesting card.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Seems broken in Commander. Evasive, hard to kill, and double strike make for an absurd EDH commander. Thats develpment though I suppose.
All true, but the original design was even harder to kill (though it didn't have double strike).
Name Cost
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying
If a creature you control would be dealt damage, prevent that damage.
X/Y
...Is this a direction worth pursuing, Or is this already down a wrong path? As is, the card still needs more 'wow' in its abilities.
This is actually the very first idea our design team came up with. The only problem is that WotC came up with it too. As fitting as it is, you really don't want the face of your set being a carbon copy of another high profile face of another set.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I don't understand the amount of overcomplexity you guys give him. Most of his skills and abilities fall into P/T. Dragons breathe fire after all, and have tails and nails and fangs..
Make it simple but representative:
Supe, the Plain 3WWW
Legendary Creature - Human Hero (M)
Flying, indestructible, vigilance It's a plain! No it's a train! 6/6
Also notice that Vigilance and Lifelink are both lasting abilites ie their effects are continious throught out turns. Vigilance allows to both attack and block with the same creature which is sort of a card advantage. Lifelink gives you health points which last regardless of wether you control the creature. Throw in Indestructible or Double strike just makes it stupidly powerfull.
Let's for the spider!
Giader, the Weaver 3GG
Legendary Creature - Spider (M)
Reach
Other Spider creatures you control get +1/+1
Tap an untapped spider you control: Tap target creature, it doesn't untap
durings its controller's untap step for as long as it's power is lower than
Giader, the Weaver's toughness. He who holds strings of all the webs. 3/5
And OH HOLY LORD, MOON-E, YOU"RE AMAZING!
1/0 tokens which come with a lord that gives them +1/+1... Not only they die with the Queen they also have agressive P/T ratio of 2/1 or 3/2! The only problem is that this isn't very Spiderish rather than generic Insect.
I don't understand the amount of overcomplexity you guys give him. Most of his skills and abilities fall into P/T. Dragons breathe fire after all, and have tails and nails and fangs..
Make it simple but representative:
Supe, the Plain 3WWW
Legendary Creature - Human Hero (M)
Flying, indestructible, vigilance It's a plain! No it's a train! 6/6
This is one approach to design, and usually it's a good one, but not every card needs to be simple. Especially when it comes to high profile mythic rare legends, you can afford to take some liberties. Your card is strong but it does nothing to capture the essence of a character, it feels super generic and kinda disappointing if it's meant to represent someone special. (This feels like a generic angel. If someone told me it was Superman I would be very surprised). Superman has far more skills than your average dragon, yet this card feels less unique than your average dragon card IMO.
And OH HOLY LORD, MOON-E, YOU"RE AMAZING!
...thank you?
Not sure what this is in reference to, but if it is sincere then I appreciate it.
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I agree that Supe, the Plain captures a lot of the literal facts of superman's abilities - the same way that a 6/6 vanilla would capture most of the Hulk's power. However, as Moon-E notes, you need to evoke the feel of Superman in this card. Kitchen Sink designs, much like Akroma, are often derided as inelegant and uncreative (Mark Rosewater did actively dislike it for these reasons among others) but you aren't designing for other designers. You're designing the card to evoke a certain feeling in your players, and Kitchen Sink cards do a great job of evoking that.
I think a lot of ideas in this thread are great, and I of course doubt the version of this legendary pop culture character we brainstormed in 15 minutes would be the final version of the card. It's an excellent discussion to have.
Curious, I know this has been posted to the custommagic subreddit, but has it been posted to the main magic reddit yet? Seems like a good place to get publicity.
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
Curious, I know this has been posted to the custommagic subreddit, but has it been posted to the main magic reddit yet? Seems like a good place to get publicity.
I do post it up on the main magic subreddit but it rarely gets more than 3 or 4 comments.
I'll see abut making the title a bit clearer on reddit to see about getting more attention as usually reddit is the last place I post it.
The next episode should be up in the next 24 hours or so...
DIRECT DOWNLOAD
Podcast archive link
RSS feed
iTunes Channel
In this episode:
Contact details:
Reuben Covington
Twitter: @reubencovington
Email: reubencovington@gmail.com
MTGsalvation Account: Doombringer
Dan Felder
Email: minimallyexceptional@gmail.com
MTGsalvation Account: Stairc
Card Renders
See this thread for more info:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/581491-interest-in-a-custom-mtg-card-podcast
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
I liked how you broke down the card critique today into spreading out its ideas. Also, I know I've talk to Stairc a lot lately and it was funny to hear Wither get involved followed by a Superman card as those are two topics we've bridged. I do like the solutions presented here.
If anything, I may write a 2 part article on World Building/Virtual Worlds as a juncture to talk about Top Down v. Bottom Up design. I'm sure these are topics you're considering for your show, so I'd love to talk to you more about it and how I'm planning to tackle it.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
On the episode itself: to me, this is the best episode of the first three, but as I've already said I'm probably biased in that, not because you talked about me, but because I prefer the talk about Magic specifically, even if I perfectly understand that the generic parts apply to Magic too. Anyway, I liked very much the design challenges.
By the way, let me say both of you are awesome too!
MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (15): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here) || Judge (34): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last one here)
CCL - Winner (3): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last one here) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (3): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016
• The two public custom sets I've been part a part of the design team for:
"Brotherhood of Ormos" - Blog post with all info - set thread - design skeleton / card list || "Extinctia: Homo Evanuit" - Blog post with all info - set thread - card list spreadsheet
• "The Lion's Lair", my article series about MTG and custom card design in particular. Latest article here. Here is the article index. Rather outdated by now, and based on the old MCC rubric, but I'm leaving this here for anybody that might be interested anyway.
• My only public attempt at being a writer: the story of my Leonin custom planeswalker Jeff Lionheart. (I have a very big one that I'm working on right now but that's private for now, and I don't know if I will ever actually publish it, and I also have ideas for multiple future ones, including one where I'm going to reprise Jeff.)
Teaser... Next episode will feature the reveal of a new MTG format we've been working on, Dreamscape's newly discovered design goal and another design-a-card challenge between Moon-E and I. The topic's going to be cool too, and extremely practical (less big concept theory than usual and focused explicitly on how to use it in specific design).
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
- Manite
Also Harlannowick, glad to hear you like our mythics. I think Xithilid is my favorite of the three cards we did, I'd love to build a commander deck around her. As for lifelink on superman, I think you're absolutely correct and I agree that it doesn't fit superman literally. Just to explain what we were thinking, we were doing our own character inspired by superman, the way Heliod is inspired by Zeus or Olivia Voldaren is inspired by Dracula. This gave us some room to play around with the creative elements if we felt the urge, and putting lifelink on the card felt like a nice way for the card to differentiate itself from Akroma and Avacyn.
It also does provide the emotional feeling you have with Superman, when he's out your side feels kind of invincible (lifelink will do that). If you were under a lot of pressure on the field, like by 5 1/1 tokens and you're at 5 life with no creatures... Playing Superman without lifelink doesn't make you feel "saved". With lifelink, you feel saved against any pressure.
So emotionally and creatively I feel it works. But it's worth noting that the card hasn't gone through development yet, who might well decide that the lifelink makes the card unbeatable (and it's clearly a ridiculous reanimation target). All those concerns are absolutely valid. Luckily, that's not design's problem. At least not this early in the process.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Glad you enjoyed it. Was definitely an interesting card to talk about.
Some cards are designed for 13 year olds.
I know you're kidding, but I'll answer anyway. =)
Superman has often allowed himself to be put in jail when he felt it was right, struggled with pacifism and has been humbled before. I like him being weak to white's unique forms of removal here.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Basically I think the lesson here is that sometimes combining abilities works well (like on our Spider Lord), while sometimes it sends mixed messages. I think perhaps we should have ended up with two designs similar to the ones below, than chosen between them:
Akroma Man 6WWW
Legendary Creature - Human (M)
Flash
Indestructible, Flying, Vigilance, Double strike, Lifelink
6/6
Life Saver 2WWW
Legendary Creature - Human (M)
Indestructible, Flying, Undying
At the beginning of each end step, if another creature you control died this turn, sacrifice ~. Then, return each creature card put into your graveyard this turn to the battlefield.
4/4
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Life Saver kind of looks like a mess to me though, in its current version. Feels hard to parse. Without knowing the design logic behind it, it just sort of reads as "It's super hard to kill AND it's super easy to kill BUT it'll bring the other thing back that you killed AND it'll come back again once..." Seems like it combined even more ideas than we did for our superman inspiration.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
Eventually the anti-transform side won, based on the idea that the most important part of a secret identity is the secret part. Morph was discussed for a while as a replacement, but we ended up using neither (especially since our creative when in the direction of a world full of well-known celebrity heroes). Ultimately I think we made the right decision: Unlike werewolves where being unable to control the transformation is a key part of the flavor and feel, super heroes are emotionally about power fantasies, and having your hero locked in "normal-mode" wasn't nearly as resonant.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
EDIT - Ninjaed by Moon-E.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
I was really excited and super appreciative of the shout-out for the Custom Card Creation Handbook. (For anyone reading this right now, I am currently accepting submissions for the Rules Text Style Guide section of the Handbook.)
I still feel 80ish minutes is long for the show, but I've mostly made peace with that at this point. I like the podcast enough that I'll make the time for it.
I really liked the design challenges. It was interesting to hear all of you go through a live design process and I think you ended up with three really cool cards. The spider lord hits the laying eggs/infestation note well and is a good fit for a spider lord. As someone who loves Wee Dragonauts, Halcyon Glaze, red burn, and weenie aggro, I would love to play Hover Idol in a deck. I really liked how the Superman guy turned out. The card is a bit over-the-top, but it's depicting Superman, so I think it should be over the top. Personally, I didn't like Superman either until I watched The Justice League, which does a good job of showing that, under all of his god-like power, Superman is just a humble farm boy from Kansas. I think this card does a good job of alluding to this humanity as well as depicting his awesome power.
One of the reasons I hate "keyword soup" designs, apart from being sort of lazy, is that the interaction between keywords is so strong it results in an incredibly un-fun experience. An indestructible flying vigilant lifelinker is basically impossible to beat, and as a result needs to cost crazy amounts of mana. Yet, superman never seemed larger-than-life to me; He's more like a Planeswalker (insane power at a reasonable price) than an Eldrazi (ridiculous stats for a ridiculous cost). How could we bring the cost down without losing the awesome keyword flavor? Well, Magic already has a "Superman": Morphling.
Zenith, Hero of Sol 3WW
Legendary Creature - Human (M)
W: ~ gains your choice of flying, vigilance, lifelink, double strike, or indestructible until end of turn.
1WW, Sacrifice ~: Permanents you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
5/5
This card is based on one version of our superman analogue that really played up the "solar powered" aspect, drawing all of his powers directly from the sun and making it the centerpiece of his hero identity. By giving an activation cost to his keywords, you still allow for insane power, but open up some windows for counterplay (whereas the previous version had little to none).
IMO, this card captures the same keyword mash-up flavor without being brutal to play against. Thoughts?
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Seems broken in Commander. Evasive, hard to kill, and double strike make for an absurd EDH commander. Thats develpment though I suppose.
I feel like for superman, you just have to go to the core of what superman is. Namely, superman is...
1. invulnerable
2. Capable of flight
3. Heightened senses
4, Non-offensive
5. Protects people
...So, flying is obviously a must. He also needs some type of protective ability and some way of protecting other permanents. I'd probably go with something like 'If a creature you control would be dealt damage, prevent that damage.' This would wrap his protection and ability to protect into a single concise ability. I also think Supe should be an angel not a human. Angels are beings who come from the sky that fly and protect stuff along with being strongly associated with white. All of that describes Superman as well. It also lets us get away from the problem of 'too large of humans'. Finally, superman isn't human, he;s kryptonian. That brings me to...
Name Cost
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying
If a creature you control would be dealt damage, prevent that damage.
X/Y
...Is this a direction worth pursuing, Or is this already down a wrong path? As is, the card still needs more 'wow' in its abilities.
EDIT: Does anyone feel like Dr. Manhattan would make for a much more interesting card.
- Manite
This is actually the very first idea our design team came up with. The only problem is that WotC came up with it too. As fitting as it is, you really don't want the face of your set being a carbon copy of another high profile face of another set.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Make it simple but representative:
Legendary Creature - Human Hero (M)
Flying, indestructible, vigilance
It's a plain! No it's a train!
6/6
Also notice that Vigilance and Lifelink are both lasting abilites ie their effects are continious throught out turns. Vigilance allows to both attack and block with the same creature which is sort of a card advantage. Lifelink gives you health points which last regardless of wether you control the creature. Throw in Indestructible or Double strike just makes it stupidly powerfull.
Let's for the spider!
Legendary Creature - Spider (M)
Reach
Other Spider creatures you control get +1/+1
Tap an untapped spider you control: Tap target creature, it doesn't untap
durings its controller's untap step for as long as it's power is lower than
Giader, the Weaver's toughness.
He who holds strings of all the webs.
3/5
And OH HOLY LORD, MOON-E, YOU"RE AMAZING!
1/0 tokens which come with a lord that gives them +1/+1... Not only they die with the Queen they also have agressive P/T ratio of 2/1 or 3/2! The only problem is that this isn't very Spiderish rather than generic Insect.
...thank you?
Not sure what this is in reference to, but if it is sincere then I appreciate it.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I think a lot of ideas in this thread are great, and I of course doubt the version of this legendary pop culture character we brainstormed in 15 minutes would be the final version of the card. It's an excellent discussion to have.
Remaking Magic - A Podcast for those that love MTG and Game Design
The Dungeon Master's Guide - A Podcast for those that love RPGs and Game Design
Sig-Heroes of the Plane
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
I do post it up on the main magic subreddit but it rarely gets more than 3 or 4 comments.
I'll see abut making the title a bit clearer on reddit to see about getting more attention as usually reddit is the last place I post it.
The next episode should be up in the next 24 hours or so...
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD