Azorius InvestigatorWU
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Blocking Azorius Investigator is against the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks the law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator. “I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
Dimir Informant1UB
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Enigma (When you cast this, target opponent chooses a number, then erases that many cards from his or her library. If no basic land card was erased this way, this is unsolved.)
When Dimir Informant enters the battlefield, if it was unsolved, draw a card and target player discards a card.
2/2
Inspired by JuanCu. Would require 'mill' to be keyworded, but that's no biggie.
Rakdos Avant-Garde2BR
Creature — Ogre Berserker (C) Riot — Whenever Rakdos Avant-Garde attacks and any of your attacking creature aren’t blocked, Rakdos Avant-Garde gains first strike until end of turn. His art is cutting-edge.
4/3
Gruul Groundbreaker4RG
Creature — Wurm (C) Dominance — As long as you control the creature with the greatest power, Gruul Groundbreaker has trample.
6/6
Selesnya MissionaryGW
Creature — Elf Cleric (C)
Legion (When you cast Selesnya Missionary, you may pay its mana cost. If you do, put a token that’s a copy of it onto the battlefield.)
2/2
Legion is probably too complicated, but I think it's on the right track to an interesting ability.
Orzhov Tax Collector3WB
Creature — Vampire Cleric (C)
When Orzhov Tax Collector enters the battlefield, target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life. Memorial — 3WB, Exile Orzhov Tax Collector from your graveyard: Target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
2/3
All Memorial abilities would work the same - you pay the card's mana cost again to re-use its enters-the-battlefield trigger.
Izzet Ingenuity2UR
Instant (C)
Experiment (As you cast this spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. You may exile this spell to cast that card for up to 2UR less.)
Draw two cards.
Golgari Scavenger1BG
Creature — Elf Druid (C) Graven — When Golgari Scavenger enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature card from your graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Golgari Scavenger.
2/3
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loved what you did with enigma. The timing isn't clear though, you should add 'When you cast this" unless it's supposed to be on resolution or something.
Thanks, I did intend to add that but I forgot to. It has been added.
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Azorious - Do these abilities stack? Meaning if you have two of them out - and one of them is blocked - the "law" is broken - so do they both get +1/+1 counters?
Dimir - I like it - but I don't like that combined with breaking the law you are adding a bunch of new lingo to the game.
Selesnya - Doesn't seem to complicated, but it will be hard balancing the card properly
Experiment - this might be broken. . . .
I like all the rest! Good Work! Glory I think is probably my favorite.
Dice_Rifel: Yep, they stack. When one law is broken, all laws are broken. I imagine most of the laws at common and uncommon would be relatively rare and easily avoidable events. Although, on second glance, giving +1/+1 counters is probably too good at common. I'll leave it as-is for now, though. EDIT: You know, this is such a common question that the mechanic is probably seriously flawed.
Dimir: Very good point. I tried my best to keep all the designs synergizing with each other and realistically possible in the same environment, but you're right that this and Azorius are a lot of lingo at once.
Selesnya: Well, I was thinking that lots of token copies running around on the board could get confusing fast, and newbies will be wondering how to make copies with tokens... and yeah, balancing is a factor I noted too. I assume they'd have slightly overcosted bodies to make up for their flexibility.
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Enigma - off the cuff, it looks cool. Nice to see inspiration-collaboration come out so nicely. The flavor is a stretch. It should use good ole "exile" wording
Rakdos - eh. Reckless is better imo.
Reckless 2 (As long as you have the lowest life total, this creature gets +2/+2, has haste, and attacks each turn if able.)
Gruul - seems good. I wanna playtest this one. And will when work relents
Selesnya - it's a fine mechanic. Kinda lame off the heels of populate.
Orzhov - also a decent mechanic. Also lame right off the heels of scavenge. If riffs are to be done, they should be riffs of non-guild mechanics.
Izzet - I know they're the combo guild, but damn. Storm says "hi". It's flavorful but kinda boring really. Tinker is more fun.
Golgari - harlannowicks mechanic has grown on me. I still like "original" Graven too.
Boros - Seriously, I'm in love right now. This mechanic is GORGEOUS.
Simic - the true enigma of the ten, no? ...obviously a placeholder name. Hands down my least favorite. I prefer the heavily playtested:
Mutate (Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on it.)
Legend: I avoided exiling with Enigma as I wanted it to work retroactively with the Dimir cards of RTR and GTC. But yeah, you have a point. I was trying to get the flavor to represent a quandary or dilemma, as that's exactly what it is gameplay-wise. I liked the idea of it presenting 'cases' to be 'solved'.
I didn't even realize that Memorial could be compared to Scavenge. Huh. That is a knock against it, yep.
Mutate seems far too strong! Just two of those guys increase the size of every dude you play by 2 whole P/T. That's a lot!
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Selesnya - Replicate for creatures. This is actually a better version of my original proposed Selesnya mechanic which put token person battlefield. And with an ability word change, we have a Simic mechanic - Duplicate. Also, it should be, "when etb" or opponents get uncounted able tokens, or is that desired?
Boros - the example card, being a "guard", should have vigilance + a red Glory effect. Or a name change, "Boros Brute" or something. Still love the mechanic.
Graven - could be "when you cast" so that it can go on instants and sorceries.
Enigma - still love this too. But again the flavor seems a little off. Especially a creature not being "solved". I have no better answer ATM. If something comes to me ill share it.
On "breaking the law" - maybe to clear up confusion you can reword it as
Azorius Investigator WU
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Blocking Azorius Investigator is against the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks any law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator.
“I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
Don't know if that word change clears it up for everybody. - it does for me.
For Enigma - again I love the mechanic but hate the use of new words: Maybe change it to:
Dimir Informant 1UB
Creature — Human Rogue (C) Enigma - When you cast Dimir Informant, target opponent chooses a number, then reveals that many cards from his or her library and then places them into his or her graveyard. If no basic land card was revealed this way, draw a card and target player discards a card.
2/2
Works the same but you don't have to use new language.
On Legion: Balancing within block is an issue, but also balancing outside block - populate is a thing - and if you're cards are powerful enough they might be too easily abused with populate - not that that is a bad thing.
On experiment: actually I misread the ability - is Izzet Ingenuity effectively countered if you choose to cast the card on top of your library?
I wouldn't worry about Memorial - i think its a good haunt/scavenge mix.
A tremendous amount of flavor is lost without "unsolved".
Enigma (When you cast this, target opponent chooses a number, then exiles that many cards from the top of his or her library. If no basic land card was exiled this way, this is unsolved.)
When Dimir Informant enters the battlefield, if it was unsolved, draw a card and target player discards a card.
Wow, I really like all of these. Perhaps some need some work but as a whole I think it's a great set of keywords and I like that they aren't all too creature-focused.
Experiment is the ability I have the most trouble evaluating. I can't tell if it is really any good, or if it is great, but leaning toward the former. I assume you can cast the experimented card as though it had flash? That would make it more exciting.
To make Legion more interesting and a bit further away from Populate, what if you could pay the card's cost any number of times? Also, you could have cards with different legion costs or that allowed you to "cheat" or otherwise modify your legion costs.
Izzet - if I'm "experimenting", I shouldn't get to see the next card before doing so. Ooh, I remember SecretInfiltrator making a Miracle card for Izzet and thinking what a good mechanical fit it was. So how about
Experiment UR (UR, Discard this card: Draw a card and reveal it. If it's a spell card, you may cast it as though it had flash for UR less.
Orzhov - Memorial is okay in my book. I was just sayin...
Rakdos - Riot is okay i guess. its more interesting than I initially thought.
I love the Boros mechanic. The wording is so flavourful, while still keeping to magic rules terminology.
I also find the Azorius mechanic very cute, but I am not sure if it's the good kind of cute. Especially when you start having different triggers for breaking the law it gets confusing VERY fast.
As for the Selesnya keyword, after reading it I immediately thought about something similar to what you did with the Izzet, without having read that yet. Thought I'd share anyway:
Keyword 2GW (When this enters the battlefield, reveal the top card of your library. If that card is a creature card you may cast that card. It's mana cost is reduced by 2GW.)
Experiment 2U (2U, Exile this from your hand and the top card of your library: You may play either card. You may cast this from exile when you cast an instant or sorcery card exiled by it.)
A super cycling: you may get just "draw a card", but if it's useless, you still have the option of going for the original. However, if you got an instant or sorcery... they become a split card with fuse!
Edit: another wording try:
Experiment 1U (1U, Exile this from your hand: Draw a card. If it's an instant or sorcery card, you may exile it. You may cast a card exiled this way. When you do, you may cast this card this turn.)
Simpler (though it loses being able to go for the original if you draw an useless permanent.)
The Rakdos Riot sample doesn't make sense; you attack, none of your creatures get blocked, so he gains first strike.
He wasn't blocked, so why does First Strike matter?
Only one I don't like.
Also, with Breaking the Law, I wouldn't dip too heavily into agro, as +1/+1 is both more Boros and more Simic.
Something like:
Azorious Investigator WU
Instants are against the Law
Whenever an opponent breaks the Law, Azorious Investigator is Unblockable till the end of turn.
2/1
Also, should this become a mechanic, I will constantly scream "YOU BETRAYED THE LAW!" at my opponents, Judge Dredd style.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I think I got it! by getting rid of the variability of getting a instant or sorcery right there...
Experiment 1U (1U, Exile this card from your hand with a charge counter on it: Draw a card. You may cast this card from exile if you've casted an instant or sorcery spell on the same turn.)
Now this is a card advantage mechanic, but I think it can be justified in red (it's in the vein of "cycling+effect", "casting multiple instant/sorceries is cool" and "you got a window to cast this, use it!" and on pure flavor: "I charged up this fireball! it's ready to go off anytime!")
I also find the Azorius mechanic very cute, but I am not sure if it's the good kind of cute. Especially when you start having different triggers for breaking the law it gets confusing VERY fast.
You're wrong. Also, we've already been through this extensively in another thread. It's VERY doable. Where have you been?
Keyword 2GW (When this enters the battlefield, reveal the top card of your library. If that card is a creature card you may cast that card. It's mana cost is reduced by 2GW.)
This is cute, but my wording is superior.
Watch the tone please. You can provide links to the other discussions or summarize it, don't just dismiss new opinions. Thanks!
The point of Experiment was to attempt to create a 'modal' spell for any two 'modes' - it allows you to toggle between it and the top card of your library. While I appreciate all of the iterations here, I think a lot of them are moving away from that conceptual underpinning and becoming something different.
On "breaking the law" - maybe to clear up confusion you can reword it as
Azorius Investigator WU
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Blocking Azorius Investigator is against the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks any law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator.
“I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
Yep, this is just the fix I was looking for. Can't believe I was missing something so simple!
The Rakdos Riot sample doesn't make sense; you attack, none of your creatures get blocked, so he gains first strike.
He wasn't blocked, so why does First Strike matter?
Only one I don't like.
Very good point! It originally had double strike but I changed that absent-mindedly, haha. Thanks for the catch.
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My favourite of the bunch is definitely the Azorius mechanic. The rest don't really seem to jump out at me as being particularly iconic or flavourful.
I like the text you've found for Glory (If this creature dies in combat,...) but I don't really think it fits the flavour too well. However, it plays really well with Battalion so i'm torn on that one.
Riot and Dominance both seem to play in a similar way (i.e. getting into combat then using different tricks to turn it on.) Dominance seems to work, and although it appears a little boring, I can see it being quite fun to play with fire breathers and pump spells.
Legion sounds like a Boros mechanic (perhaps Multiply?), and is a little dull. I guess it depends on the quality of the creatures that have it though. Just don't make something awesome like Voice of Resurgence that people want to collect two playlets of it to use one for tokens.
I don't really get Enigma. I mean, I can kind of see what you are trying to do, but it is using a lot of complexity points to set up something that is a little against flavour. The mechanic of my thieves' guild shouldn't really be setting up crimes for other guilds to investigate in my opinion. They should be more about getting away scot free. Also, as it stands you need to specify that the number chosen be greater than 0.
Experiment doesn't really know what it's doing at the moment, but I would support something playing with the Clash, Miracle, Parley sort of design space to have a powerful but semi-random effect to suggest the erratic nature of the guild. (Erratic Explosion - that's an Izzet card if i've ever seen one.)
Memorial is fine, a fixed Haunt/Scavenge. (I still think Tribute is better, but I know it is against your rules.)
Graven is ok, but a little dull. Works slightly at odds with Dredge and Scavenge, but it's probably fine.
Evolution is meh. The spells will pretty much always run the risk of doing nothing. It will mean creating a whole lot of +1/+1 counter based creatures without a +1/+1 counter mechanic to back it up, which is a bit of a challenge. I can see Evolution as it stands going the way of Grind for Dimir and becoming a sub theme rather than the main mechanic.
Glory could be re purposed as a Grull mechanic - but honestly Riot and Glory seem like weaker versions of unblockable. Basically like punisher meets unblockable. . .
Legion could be re purposed as a Boros mechanic something like
Legion (When ~ attacks, you may pay its mana cost [or more preferably a separate Legion cost]. If you do, put a token that’s a copy of it onto the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
Again very hard to balance but I think the flavor fits more.
Example
Boros something RW
Creature - Something C
Legion : (When ~ attacks, you may pay :symwr:. If you do, put a token that’s a copy of it onto the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
1/1
For Dimir - I get the mind games, but I agree the flavor might be weak. What about this as a mind game flavor? Stolen right off Master of Predicaments.
Dimir Informant 1UB
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Caper - When you cast this, choose a card in your hand. Each opponent guesses whether the card's converted mana cost is greater than [number - for this example 4]. Reveal the chosen card. If the player guessed wrong, [do something]
2/2
Allows you to be tricky?
Actually I might use this mechanic for something else
As for experiment I reevaluated it and found it the opposite of broken and weak instead - what do you think of this fix, which is how I thought it worked originally.
Izzet Ingenuity 2UR
Instant (C)
Experiment (As you cast this spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. You may cast that card for up to 2UR less.)
Draw two cards.
Again hard to balance, much more comboey - similar to cascade but not as broken. Think of it as a fixed cascade. Or instead you may do something like this to go with your idea of "modal spells"
Izzet Ingenuity 2UR
Instant (C)
Experiment - [Number](As you cast this spell, you may reveal the top [number] cards of your library. You may counter this spell to cast one of those cards for up to 2UR less. Place the rest of the cards revealed this way into your graveyard. )
Draw two cards.
Allows you to be more modal and allows you more room to balance cards
I also find the Azorius mechanic very cute, but I am not sure if it's the good kind of cute. Especially when you start having different triggers for breaking the law it gets confusing VERY fast.
You're wrong. Also, we've already been through this extensively in another thread. It's VERY doable. Where have you been?
Um,i was there...we talked about "laws" in general briefly. Mostly we just had people ask rules related questions about the abilities. The fact that multiple custom card designers felt the need to clarify the rules around the ability is strong evidence in favor of the theory that "laws" is a very complex mechanic. As far as I can tell,"Laws" are a just-barely doable mechanic, and I wouldn't even consider it if it didn't fit the flavor of Azorius so perfectly.
Azorious Investigator (AI-2) WU
Instants are against the Law
Whenever an opponent breaks the Law, Azorious Investigator is Unblockable till the end of turn.
2/1
And this card lets me see another thing about the law ability. We have to be very careful with how we word are law abilities. Based on my understanding of the ability, only events can be against the law. This means that the above card doesn't work. Instead, it needs to say that "Casting instants is against the law."
Another thing we need to consider is how laws interact in mirror matches. Based on current wording, something like Azorius investigator could cause problems. Becuase it doesn't specify that the law is for the opponent only, if I had an azorius investigator out and my opponent had an AI-2 out, whenvever my opponent casts an instant, that player would be breaking the law created by their own creature resulting in my investigator getting a +1/+1 counter. Is this intended? Do we think this is acceptable?
EDIT: I don't think the current wording of "Laws" actually works. A more explicit version of the ability is...
Whenever [some event], [some player] breaks the law
Whenever an opponent breaks the law, [effect]
...Which would turn the OP card into...
Azorius Investigator WU
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Whenever a creature blocks Azorius Investigator, that creature's controller breaks the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks the law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator.
“I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Well in order to balance "laws" you need to think about laws as a whole and not Laws individually - and then try to see if they are not to oppressive. Additionally for the instant law. . . maybe word it like:
"Players that are not you casting instants is against the law" ?
If we're just trying to reword the thing, try "It is against the law for other players to cast instants."
I think the "It is against the law for X to do Y" wording will help with the issue of defining triggers.
I think the problem with the current implementation of laws is that is too parasitic... geometric instead linear. Because each lawmaker adds a source of breaking the law and a benefit from breaking the law, you have X times X advantages from X cards.
Explanation: Let's say each card has a 0.2 chance of being a trigger each turn, and gives you 0.2 advantage when a law is broken. The formula for the advantage gain each turn is 0.2 * 0.2. If you have two, the advantage gain per turn is 0.4*0.4. For three, 0.6 * 0.6 each turn. And so on. So for azorious, picking any lawmaker is insanely advantageous.
A solution could be making the triggers "At the beginning of the end step, if an opponent broke a law this turn..." Yes, it kills multiplayer, but at least it tones down the parasitism to the normal linear levels instead of geometric ones. (And still only "kinda" because it tones downs one of the factors, but it still increases with each new lawmaker, to a limit of 1 trigger per turn.)
Here is the thread with law wording and concept hashed out.
Rakdos - the more I look at Riot, the more it's looking like a Sabotage/Dimir mechanic.
Dimir - Enigma is a punisher mechanic - Book Burning and friends. the more I look at it, the more it's looking like a Gamble/Rakdos mechanic.
Memorial and exile version of Graven shouldn't be in the same set of ten. Exile version of Graven should get the axe imo. Memorial is very elegant and flavorful and Orzhov is probably the most difficult guild for which to design a good mechanic.
I still propose "Enforce" for Selesnya or Simic (renamed for flavor). I continue to playtest the mechanic with a variety of Magic buddies. It's fun but isn't too powerful even with 14/16 creatures of a 40 card "draft" deck featuring the ability vs. draft decks of current standard.
I likewise propose Tinker for Izzet. More fun and more design space.
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Blocking Azorius Investigator is against the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks the law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator.
“I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
More examples can be found here. +1/+1 counters probably too good for common.
Dimir Informant 1UB
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Enigma (When you cast this, target opponent chooses a number, then erases that many cards from his or her library. If no basic land card was erased this way, this is unsolved.)
When Dimir Informant enters the battlefield, if it was unsolved, draw a card and target player discards a card.
2/2
Inspired by JuanCu. Would require 'mill' to be keyworded, but that's no biggie.
Rakdos Avant-Garde 2BR
Creature — Ogre Berserker (C)
Riot — Whenever Rakdos Avant-Garde attacks and any of your attacking creature aren’t blocked, Rakdos Avant-Garde gains first strike until end of turn.
His art is cutting-edge.
4/3
Gruul Groundbreaker 4RG
Creature — Wurm (C)
Dominance — As long as you control the creature with the greatest power, Gruul Groundbreaker has trample.
6/6
Selesnya Missionary GW
Creature — Elf Cleric (C)
Legion (When you cast Selesnya Missionary, you may pay its mana cost. If you do, put a token that’s a copy of it onto the battlefield.)
2/2
Legion is probably too complicated, but I think it's on the right track to an interesting ability.
Orzhov Tax Collector 3WB
Creature — Vampire Cleric (C)
When Orzhov Tax Collector enters the battlefield, target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
Memorial — 3WB, Exile Orzhov Tax Collector from your graveyard: Target opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.
2/3
All Memorial abilities would work the same - you pay the card's mana cost again to re-use its enters-the-battlefield trigger.
Izzet Ingenuity 2UR
Instant (C)
Experiment (As you cast this spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. You may exile this spell to cast that card for up to 2UR less.)
Draw two cards.
Inspired by Jay.
Golgari Scavenger 1BG
Creature — Elf Druid (C)
Graven — When Golgari Scavenger enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature card from your graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Golgari Scavenger.
2/3
Inspired by harlannowick.
Boros Honor Guard 2RW
Creature — Minotaur Soldier (C)
Haste
Glory — When Boros Honor Guard dies in combat, you may gain 3 life.
3/3
Simic Inspiration 2GU
Sorcery (C)
Evolution — Draw cards equal to the greatest number of +1/+1 counters on a creature you control.
Evolution has about as much design space as Domain or Devotion, which is to say, not a lot. Luckily, it's a guild keyword.
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Dimir - I like it - but I don't like that combined with breaking the law you are adding a bunch of new lingo to the game.
Selesnya - Doesn't seem to complicated, but it will be hard balancing the card properly
Experiment - this might be broken. . . .
I like all the rest! Good Work! Glory I think is probably my favorite.
Dimir: Very good point. I tried my best to keep all the designs synergizing with each other and realistically possible in the same environment, but you're right that this and Azorius are a lot of lingo at once.
Selesnya: Well, I was thinking that lots of token copies running around on the board could get confusing fast, and newbies will be wondering how to make copies with tokens... and yeah, balancing is a factor I noted too. I assume they'd have slightly overcosted bodies to make up for their flexibility.
Experiment: How so?
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Enigma - off the cuff, it looks cool. Nice to see inspiration-collaboration come out so nicely. The flavor is a stretch. It should use good ole "exile" wording
Rakdos - eh. Reckless is better imo.
Reckless 2 (As long as you have the lowest life total, this creature gets +2/+2, has haste, and attacks each turn if able.)
Gruul - seems good. I wanna playtest this one. And will when work relents
Selesnya - it's a fine mechanic. Kinda lame off the heels of populate.
Orzhov - also a decent mechanic. Also lame right off the heels of scavenge. If riffs are to be done, they should be riffs of non-guild mechanics.
Izzet - I know they're the combo guild, but damn. Storm says "hi". It's flavorful but kinda boring really. Tinker is more fun.
Golgari - harlannowicks mechanic has grown on me. I still like "original" Graven too.
Boros - Seriously, I'm in love right now. This mechanic is GORGEOUS.
Simic - the true enigma of the ten, no? ...obviously a placeholder name. Hands down my least favorite. I prefer the heavily playtested:
Mutate (Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on it.)
Overall a great batch of cards! Thank you!
I didn't even realize that Memorial could be compared to Scavenge. Huh. That is a knock against it, yep.
Mutate seems far too strong! Just two of those guys increase the size of every dude you play by 2 whole P/T. That's a lot!
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Selesnya - Replicate for creatures. This is actually a better version of my original proposed Selesnya mechanic which put token person battlefield. And with an ability word change, we have a Simic mechanic - Duplicate. Also, it should be, "when etb" or opponents get uncounted able tokens, or is that desired?
Boros - the example card, being a "guard", should have vigilance + a red Glory effect. Or a name change, "Boros Brute" or something. Still love the mechanic.
Graven - could be "when you cast" so that it can go on instants and sorceries.
Enigma - still love this too. But again the flavor seems a little off. Especially a creature not being "solved". I have no better answer ATM. If something comes to me ill share it.
Azorius Investigator WU
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Blocking Azorius Investigator is against the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks any law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator.
“I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
Don't know if that word change clears it up for everybody. - it does for me.
For Enigma - again I love the mechanic but hate the use of new words: Maybe change it to:
Dimir Informant 1UB
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Enigma - When you cast Dimir Informant, target opponent chooses a number, then reveals that many cards from his or her library and then places them into his or her graveyard. If no basic land card was revealed this way, draw a card and target player discards a card.
2/2
Works the same but you don't have to use new language.
On Legion: Balancing within block is an issue, but also balancing outside block - populate is a thing - and if you're cards are powerful enough they might be too easily abused with populate - not that that is a bad thing.
On experiment: actually I misread the ability - is Izzet Ingenuity effectively countered if you choose to cast the card on top of your library?
I wouldn't worry about Memorial - i think its a good haunt/scavenge mix.
Enigma (When you cast this, target opponent chooses a number, then exiles that many cards from the top of his or her library. If no basic land card was exiled this way, this is unsolved.)
When Dimir Informant enters the battlefield, if it was unsolved, draw a card and target player discards a card.
Experiment is the ability I have the most trouble evaluating. I can't tell if it is really any good, or if it is great, but leaning toward the former. I assume you can cast the experimented card as though it had flash? That would make it more exciting.
To make Legion more interesting and a bit further away from Populate, what if you could pay the card's cost any number of times? Also, you could have cards with different legion costs or that allowed you to "cheat" or otherwise modify your legion costs.
Experiment UR (UR, Discard this card: Draw a card and reveal it. If it's a spell card, you may cast it as though it had flash for UR less.
Orzhov - Memorial is okay in my book. I was just sayin...
Rakdos - Riot is okay i guess. its more interesting than I initially thought.
I also find the Azorius mechanic very cute, but I am not sure if it's the good kind of cute. Especially when you start having different triggers for breaking the law it gets confusing VERY fast.
As for the Selesnya keyword, after reading it I immediately thought about something similar to what you did with the Izzet, without having read that yet. Thought I'd share anyway:
Keyword 2GW (When this enters the battlefield, reveal the top card of your library. If that card is a creature card you may cast that card. It's mana cost is reduced by 2GW.)
A super cycling: you may get just "draw a card", but if it's useless, you still have the option of going for the original. However, if you got an instant or sorcery... they become a split card with fuse!
Edit: another wording try:
Experiment 1U (1U, Exile this from your hand: Draw a card. If it's an instant or sorcery card, you may exile it. You may cast a card exiled this way. When you do, you may cast this card this turn.)
Simpler (though it loses being able to go for the original if you draw an useless permanent.)
He wasn't blocked, so why does First Strike matter?
Only one I don't like.
Also, with Breaking the Law, I wouldn't dip too heavily into agro, as +1/+1 is both more Boros and more Simic.
Something like:
Azorious Investigator
WU
Instants are against the Law
Whenever an opponent breaks the Law, Azorious Investigator is Unblockable till the end of turn.
2/1
Also, should this become a mechanic, I will constantly scream "YOU BETRAYED THE LAW!" at my opponents, Judge Dredd style.
Experiment 1U (1U, Exile this card from your hand with a charge counter on it: Draw a card. You may cast this card from exile if you've casted an instant or sorcery spell on the same turn.)
Now this is a card advantage mechanic, but I think it can be justified in red (it's in the vein of "cycling+effect", "casting multiple instant/sorceries is cool" and "you got a window to cast this, use it!" and on pure flavor: "I charged up this fireball! it's ready to go off anytime!")
Watch the tone please. You can provide links to the other discussions or summarize it, don't just dismiss new opinions. Thanks!
Yep, this is just the fix I was looking for. Can't believe I was missing something so simple!
Very good point! It originally had double strike but I changed that absent-mindedly, haha. Thanks for the catch.
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I like the text you've found for Glory (If this creature dies in combat,...) but I don't really think it fits the flavour too well. However, it plays really well with Battalion so i'm torn on that one.
Riot and Dominance both seem to play in a similar way (i.e. getting into combat then using different tricks to turn it on.) Dominance seems to work, and although it appears a little boring, I can see it being quite fun to play with fire breathers and pump spells.
Legion sounds like a Boros mechanic (perhaps Multiply?), and is a little dull. I guess it depends on the quality of the creatures that have it though. Just don't make something awesome like Voice of Resurgence that people want to collect two playlets of it to use one for tokens.
I don't really get Enigma. I mean, I can kind of see what you are trying to do, but it is using a lot of complexity points to set up something that is a little against flavour. The mechanic of my thieves' guild shouldn't really be setting up crimes for other guilds to investigate in my opinion. They should be more about getting away scot free. Also, as it stands you need to specify that the number chosen be greater than 0.
Experiment doesn't really know what it's doing at the moment, but I would support something playing with the Clash, Miracle, Parley sort of design space to have a powerful but semi-random effect to suggest the erratic nature of the guild. (Erratic Explosion - that's an Izzet card if i've ever seen one.)
Memorial is fine, a fixed Haunt/Scavenge. (I still think Tribute is better, but I know it is against your rules.)
Graven is ok, but a little dull. Works slightly at odds with Dredge and Scavenge, but it's probably fine.
Evolution is meh. The spells will pretty much always run the risk of doing nothing. It will mean creating a whole lot of +1/+1 counter based creatures without a +1/+1 counter mechanic to back it up, which is a bit of a challenge. I can see Evolution as it stands going the way of Grind for Dimir and becoming a sub theme rather than the main mechanic.
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Legion could be re purposed as a Boros mechanic something like
Legion (When ~ attacks, you may pay its mana cost [or more preferably a separate Legion cost]. If you do, put a token that’s a copy of it onto the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
Again very hard to balance but I think the flavor fits more.
Example
Boros something RW
Creature - Something C
Legion : (When ~ attacks, you may pay :symwr:. If you do, put a token that’s a copy of it onto the battlefield tapped and attacking.)
1/1
For Dimir - I get the mind games, but I agree the flavor might be weak. What about this as a mind game flavor? Stolen right off Master of Predicaments.
Dimir Informant 1UB
Creature — Human Rogue (C)
Caper - When you cast this, choose a card in your hand. Each opponent guesses whether the card's converted mana cost is greater than [number - for this example 4]. Reveal the chosen card. If the player guessed wrong, [do something]
2/2
Allows you to be tricky?
Actually I might use this mechanic for something else
As for experiment I reevaluated it and found it the opposite of broken and weak instead - what do you think of this fix, which is how I thought it worked originally.
Izzet Ingenuity 2UR
Instant (C)
Experiment (As you cast this spell, you may reveal the top card of your library. You may cast that card for up to 2UR less.)
Draw two cards.
Again hard to balance, much more comboey - similar to cascade but not as broken. Think of it as a fixed cascade. Or instead you may do something like this to go with your idea of "modal spells"
Izzet Ingenuity 2UR
Instant (C)
Experiment - [Number](As you cast this spell, you may reveal the top [number] cards of your library. You may counter this spell to cast one of those cards for up to 2UR less. Place the rest of the cards revealed this way into your graveyard. )
Draw two cards.
Allows you to be more modal and allows you more room to balance cards
Um,i was there...we talked about "laws" in general briefly. Mostly we just had people ask rules related questions about the abilities. The fact that multiple custom card designers felt the need to clarify the rules around the ability is strong evidence in favor of the theory that "laws" is a very complex mechanic. As far as I can tell,"Laws" are a just-barely doable mechanic, and I wouldn't even consider it if it didn't fit the flavor of Azorius so perfectly.
And this card lets me see another thing about the law ability. We have to be very careful with how we word are law abilities. Based on my understanding of the ability, only events can be against the law. This means that the above card doesn't work. Instead, it needs to say that "Casting instants is against the law."
Another thing we need to consider is how laws interact in mirror matches. Based on current wording, something like Azorius investigator could cause problems. Becuase it doesn't specify that the law is for the opponent only, if I had an azorius investigator out and my opponent had an AI-2 out, whenvever my opponent casts an instant, that player would be breaking the law created by their own creature resulting in my investigator getting a +1/+1 counter. Is this intended? Do we think this is acceptable?
EDIT: I don't think the current wording of "Laws" actually works. A more explicit version of the ability is...
Whenever [some event], [some player] breaks the law
Whenever an opponent breaks the law, [effect]
...Which would turn the OP card into...
Azorius Investigator WU
Creature — Human Wizard (C)
Whenever a creature blocks Azorius Investigator, that creature's controller breaks the law.
Whenever an opponent breaks the law, put a +1/+1 counter on Azorius Investigator.
“I have a warrant to search the premises.”
1/1
- Manite
"Players that are not you casting instants is against the law" ?
I think the "It is against the law for X to do Y" wording will help with the issue of defining triggers.
Explanation: Let's say each card has a 0.2 chance of being a trigger each turn, and gives you 0.2 advantage when a law is broken. The formula for the advantage gain each turn is 0.2 * 0.2. If you have two, the advantage gain per turn is 0.4*0.4. For three, 0.6 * 0.6 each turn. And so on. So for azorious, picking any lawmaker is insanely advantageous.
A solution could be making the triggers "At the beginning of the end step, if an opponent broke a law this turn..." Yes, it kills multiplayer, but at least it tones down the parasitism to the normal linear levels instead of geometric ones. (And still only "kinda" because it tones downs one of the factors, but it still increases with each new lawmaker, to a limit of 1 trigger per turn.)
Here is the thread with law wording and concept hashed out.
Rakdos - the more I look at Riot, the more it's looking like a Sabotage/Dimir mechanic.
Dimir - Enigma is a punisher mechanic - Book Burning and friends. the more I look at it, the more it's looking like a Gamble/Rakdos mechanic.
Memorial and exile version of Graven shouldn't be in the same set of ten. Exile version of Graven should get the axe imo. Memorial is very elegant and flavorful and Orzhov is probably the most difficult guild for which to design a good mechanic.
I still propose "Enforce" for Selesnya or Simic (renamed for flavor). I continue to playtest the mechanic with a variety of Magic buddies. It's fun but isn't too powerful even with 14/16 creatures of a 40 card "draft" deck featuring the ability vs. draft decks of current standard.
I likewise propose Tinker for Izzet. More fun and more design space.
EDIT - fixed the links.