Woolly Rat1B
Snow Creature — Rat [C]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[2/1]
White Stalker2W
Snow Creature — Wolf [C]
First strike
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[2/2]
Boreal Mammoth3GG
Snow Creature — Elephant [C]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[4/5]
Frostweb Goliath1GG
Snow Creature — Spider [C]
Reach
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[2/3]
Polynya Raptor1U
Snow Creature — Bird [U]
Flying
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[1/2]
Alpine Herd1RR
Snow Creature — Goat [U]
Trample
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[3/2]
Kaldarjar Camp Rhino2WW
Snow Creature — Rhino [U]
Lifelink
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[3/3]
Menace of Helbjarg1RRR
Snow Creature — Boar [R]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.) 1R, T: Menace of Helbjarg fights target creature. This ability costs T less to activate if Menace of Helbjarg has a +1/+1 counter on it.
[4/3]
Skittering Skapraun1BB
Snow Creature — Insect [R]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
When Skittering Skapraun dies, return it to its owner's hand.
[1/1]
Get of the Aldtivar1G
Legendary Snow Creature — Bear [M]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
Whenever you cast a snow creature spell, if it doesn't have dire, it gains dire.
[2/2]
EDIT: Changed Boreal Mammoth from 3/4 to 5/3, and from 1GGG to 3GG.
EDIT: Removed "if it had a +1/+1 counter on it" from Skittering Skapraun's ability.
EDIT: Renamed Alpine Herd and made it a Goat. It was "Sabertooth Hulk" and a Cat. Added trample.
EDIT: Changed Boreal Mammoth from 5/3 to 4/5. Ditched trample.
EDIT: Changed Kaldarjar Camp Rhino's name from "Kaldarjar Pack-Bearer".
Amass 1 (Whenever this creature attacks, you may tap an untapped creature you control that isn't attacking. If you do, this creature gets +1/+1 for the amassed creature.)
Avalanche (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it. When it does, you may redistribute any number of +1/+1 counters among snow creatures you control.)
Wow I gotta say there have been a massive amount of Avalanche variations.
Oh yes, it's true.
At some point after the previous thread, I realized that the only thing stopping me from implementing this version was the flavor. So I changed the flavor.
But since I really like the flavor of "avalanche," I may look to do another mechanic with that name this block, but it probably won't be anything like the ones proposed.
Okay, now where is the Kaldarjar's spell mechanic?
I mean, "over-the-curve creature if you accept a certain condition" has a lot of variants to it - this is probably the best possible version of "+1/+1 counter avalanche."
Also, if the Aldtivar's children are that scary, how little would I want to meet the Aldtivar itself?
I remember that you used to be doing unlimited snow basics for limited, but I also seem to recall that changing, and I don't think it was ever specified exactly what it was changing to. Depending on that, some of those commons will be pretty high up on the strong end, but I don't think any of them go too far. I will say that Hulk and Raptor aren't at an appreciably higher power level than the commons, and certainly aren't more complex, so it feels kind of bizarre to have them at uncommon.
"costs T less to activate" is an awesome line of text.
You should probably have explicit reminder text on the Get to let people know dire stacks, similar to Sublime Archangel.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
I remember that you used to be doing unlimited snow basics for limited, but I also seem to recall that changing, and I don't think it was ever specified exactly what it was changing to. Depending on that, some of those commons will be pretty high up on the strong end, but I don't think any of them go too far. I will say that Hulk and Raptor aren't at an appreciably higher power level than the commons, and certainly aren't more complex, so it feels kind of bizarre to have them at uncommon.
My current line of thinking is that each pack's basic land is a snow basic. If I remember correctly, that's how Coldsnap did it. Nonsnow basics are still technically "in" the set, you just can't crack them in packs except as foily versions. Nonsnow basics would be in every other product (precons, etc.) not used for drafting purposes. There's some scarcity in Limited. Although, I plan to have more snow mana sources to lessen that scarcity somewhat.
The Hulk and Raptor (I'd also add Pack-Bearer) are pretty much built on the same formula as the commons. I just happen to think that the formula works out appreciably better for Hulk - a big, aggressive, all-upside red 3-drop maybe shouldn't be common, is my thinking. The Raptor is uncommon because I want the as-fan on dire to be very low for blue. The Pack-Bearer has to be uncommon because of how swingy lifelink is in Limited. Now, I'll also say that I think the common Stalker benefits in much the same way as the Hulk, but I decided I wanted one of these commons to be both splashable and 1st pick worthy.
You should probably have explicit reminder text on the Get to let people know dire stacks, similar to Sublime Archangel.
Well, my purpose in wording the ability that way was so that you couldn't stack dire, in practice. Yeah, I could follow up the Get with Sakashima, but I feel like that's enough of a corner case that I maybe don't need the reminder text.
Wow, I didn't even notice it was worded not to stack. I think it probably should, due somewhat to precedent and cleanliness but mostly because the current version discourages you from playing other dire creatures. I don't think that would end up being too much more powerful than it is now.
Giving blue a low as-fan seems reasonable, but I'd probably bulk the raptor up a bit and increase the cost in that case.
I hadn't considered this before, but this doesn't seem like it would play all that dynamically. You cast creatures without counters until you find a snow land, and then for the rest of the game your dire creatures get counters on them.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
One snow basic per pack works logistics-wise, but it makes the monocolor theme all but unworkable. What are the odds that Boreal Mammoth is going to actually be more castable in a spectrum deck with tons of rainbow mana fixing than a snow deck with 1-3 snow basics of its main color, 1-3 snow basics of its secondary color, and a couple off-color basics that are included just because they say "snow" on them?
Power level wise, most of these seem fine. I'm not even worried about the Boar in Limited, because of its monstrous color requirement. Polynya Raptor (poly-Greek-many + nya-Old Norse-new = "many new raptor"?) seems like another piece of the monoblue tempo deck with Daze et al. from XI.
Polynya Raptor (poly-Greek-many + nya-Old Norse-new = "many new raptor"?) seems like another piece of the monoblue tempo deck with Daze et al. from XI.
If the Raptor goes into some Standard build with the XI cards, that's probably a good outcome. It means that Standard cares enough about snow in order to run it in critical mass (because what's the point of attempting a mono-U tempo build if you can't be reasonably assured of hitting the snow mana for dire on turn 2?)
Differentiating the snow vs. multicolor manabases IS a concern for me, and I do want to be sensitive to it. In my first draft of dire, there weren't any single-C cards in the mix. It was all CC, CCC, and I think one or two CCCC's. I decided it would be more exciting for Limited if there were one or two of these guys (the White Stalker in particular) that would really make you question which way to go. Ultimately, I think it will reward drafting skill... because as sexy as the White Stalker is, if you haven't started to / aren't prepared to make a snow commitment, it's weak.
Part of my solution is going to be really packing in the snow mana generators outside of the basic lands. I'm working on how to do that now.
Eh? A 2/2 first striker for 3 is pretty fillerish, but it's not unplayable. I'd probably value un-Dired White Stalker more than un-Dired Sabertooth Hulk, for example. Of the non-rares, the Raptor is actually the one with the most variance between Dire and un-Dire, which is why I'm angling toward it being more of a role-player in Constructed as opposed to Limited.
Eh? A 2/2 first striker for 3 is pretty fillerish, but it's not unplayable. I'd probably value un-Dired White Stalker more than un-Dired Sabertooth Hulk, for example. Of the non-rares, the Raptor is actually the one with the most variance between Dire and un-Dire, which is why I'm angling toward it being more of a role-player in Constructed as opposed to Limited.
Hmmm. I think we agree on all points, here. But maybe I'm not understanding your perspective.
White Stalker is most certainly filler without the snow mana. But it's quite strong with the snow mana. Like you said, the variance is pretty high on the lower CMC dire cards. My hunch is that many drafters will only see "3/3 first strike for 2W" and convince themselves that they can pull it off with a little splash of snow or white mana, regardless of how they've been committing to their mana base throughout the draft. This is why I'm saying that I think it will test players' drafting skill. Most of the other dire cards kind hold your hand so that you draft them correctly (because their casting costs require a monocolor snow base.)
I do think that the White Stalker is generally superior to the Sabertooth Hulk in draft, acknowledging that the draft environment is not really set, yet. But I suspect that Sabertooth Hulk will see Constructed play in monored tempo decks when all is said and done, whereas the White Stalker will probably be marginal in Constructed. I think a vanilla red 4/3 for 3 is a big deal, if the rest of the aggro curve is there (and I plan for it to be.)
For the Raptor, that's exactly why I put it at uncommon instead of common. Like I said, the design formula for the uncommons is basically the same as for the commons. But that formula interacts with those three uncommon cards in a way that makes them special. As a drafter, I would despise Polynya Raptor if I had to contend with my opponents pulling it at common frequency. But I'm fine if some blue tempo deck picks it up for Constructed use. I felt like the uncommon position was the way to balance it.
Set 1 of 3 in Dominaria block
Woolly Rat 1B
Snow Creature — Rat [C]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[2/1]
White Stalker 2W
Snow Creature — Wolf [C]
First strike
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[2/2]
Boreal Mammoth 3GG
Snow Creature — Elephant [C]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[4/5]
Frostweb Goliath 1GG
Snow Creature — Spider [C]
Reach
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[2/3]
Polynya Raptor 1U
Snow Creature — Bird [U]
Flying
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[1/2]
Alpine Herd 1RR
Snow Creature — Goat [U]
Trample
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[3/2]
Kaldarjar Camp Rhino 2WW
Snow Creature — Rhino [U]
Lifelink
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
[3/3]
Menace of Helbjarg 1RRR
Snow Creature — Boar [R]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
1R, T: Menace of Helbjarg fights target creature. This ability costs T less to activate if Menace of Helbjarg has a +1/+1 counter on it.
[4/3]
Skittering Skapraun 1BB
Snow Creature — Insect [R]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
When Skittering Skapraun dies, return it to its owner's hand.
[1/1]
Get of the Aldtivar 1G
Legendary Snow Creature — Bear [M]
Dire (This creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if mana from a snow source was spent to cast it.)
Whenever you cast a snow creature spell, if it doesn't have dire, it gains dire.
[2/2]
EDIT: Changed Boreal Mammoth from 3/4 to 5/3, and from 1GGG to 3GG.
EDIT: Removed "if it had a +1/+1 counter on it" from Skittering Skapraun's ability.
EDIT: Renamed Alpine Herd and made it a Goat. It was "Sabertooth Hulk" and a Cat. Added trample.
EDIT: Changed Boreal Mammoth from 5/3 to 4/5. Ditched trample.
EDIT: Changed Kaldarjar Camp Rhino's name from "Kaldarjar Pack-Bearer".
Like Monsterous avoid counter manipulation effects such as Hex Parasite.
Wow I gotta say there have been a massive amount of Avalanche variations.
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At some point after the previous thread, I realized that the only thing stopping me from implementing this version was the flavor. So I changed the flavor.
But since I really like the flavor of "avalanche," I may look to do another mechanic with that name this block, but it probably won't be anything like the ones proposed.
I mean, "over-the-curve creature if you accept a certain condition" has a lot of variants to it - this is probably the best possible version of "+1/+1 counter avalanche."
Also, if the Aldtivar's children are that scary, how little would I want to meet the Aldtivar itself?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Old Norse "ald" = "old."
Old Norse "tivar" = "gods."
I don't think you'll meet them, however.
I remember that you used to be doing unlimited snow basics for limited, but I also seem to recall that changing, and I don't think it was ever specified exactly what it was changing to. Depending on that, some of those commons will be pretty high up on the strong end, but I don't think any of them go too far. I will say that Hulk and Raptor aren't at an appreciably higher power level than the commons, and certainly aren't more complex, so it feels kind of bizarre to have them at uncommon.
"costs T less to activate" is an awesome line of text.
You should probably have explicit reminder text on the Get to let people know dire stacks, similar to Sublime Archangel.
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My current line of thinking is that each pack's basic land is a snow basic. If I remember correctly, that's how Coldsnap did it. Nonsnow basics are still technically "in" the set, you just can't crack them in packs except as foily versions. Nonsnow basics would be in every other product (precons, etc.) not used for drafting purposes. There's some scarcity in Limited. Although, I plan to have more snow mana sources to lessen that scarcity somewhat.
The Hulk and Raptor (I'd also add Pack-Bearer) are pretty much built on the same formula as the commons. I just happen to think that the formula works out appreciably better for Hulk - a big, aggressive, all-upside red 3-drop maybe shouldn't be common, is my thinking. The Raptor is uncommon because I want the as-fan on dire to be very low for blue. The Pack-Bearer has to be uncommon because of how swingy lifelink is in Limited. Now, I'll also say that I think the common Stalker benefits in much the same way as the Hulk, but I decided I wanted one of these commons to be both splashable and 1st pick worthy.
Well, my purpose in wording the ability that way was so that you couldn't stack dire, in practice. Yeah, I could follow up the Get with Sakashima, but I feel like that's enough of a corner case that I maybe don't need the reminder text.
Giving blue a low as-fan seems reasonable, but I'd probably bulk the raptor up a bit and increase the cost in that case.
I hadn't considered this before, but this doesn't seem like it would play all that dynamically. You cast creatures without counters until you find a snow land, and then for the rest of the game your dire creatures get counters on them.
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Power level wise, most of these seem fine. I'm not even worried about the Boar in Limited, because of its monstrous color requirement. Polynya Raptor (poly-Greek-many + nya-Old Norse-new = "many new raptor"?) seems like another piece of the monoblue tempo deck with Daze et al. from XI.
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If the Raptor goes into some Standard build with the XI cards, that's probably a good outcome. It means that Standard cares enough about snow in order to run it in critical mass (because what's the point of attempting a mono-U tempo build if you can't be reasonably assured of hitting the snow mana for dire on turn 2?)
Differentiating the snow vs. multicolor manabases IS a concern for me, and I do want to be sensitive to it. In my first draft of dire, there weren't any single-C cards in the mix. It was all CC, CCC, and I think one or two CCCC's. I decided it would be more exciting for Limited if there were one or two of these guys (the White Stalker in particular) that would really make you question which way to go. Ultimately, I think it will reward drafting skill... because as sexy as the White Stalker is, if you haven't started to / aren't prepared to make a snow commitment, it's weak.
Part of my solution is going to be really packing in the snow mana generators outside of the basic lands. I'm working on how to do that now.
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White Stalker is most certainly filler without the snow mana. But it's quite strong with the snow mana. Like you said, the variance is pretty high on the lower CMC dire cards. My hunch is that many drafters will only see "3/3 first strike for 2W" and convince themselves that they can pull it off with a little splash of snow or white mana, regardless of how they've been committing to their mana base throughout the draft. This is why I'm saying that I think it will test players' drafting skill. Most of the other dire cards kind hold your hand so that you draft them correctly (because their casting costs require a monocolor snow base.)
I do think that the White Stalker is generally superior to the Sabertooth Hulk in draft, acknowledging that the draft environment is not really set, yet. But I suspect that Sabertooth Hulk will see Constructed play in monored tempo decks when all is said and done, whereas the White Stalker will probably be marginal in Constructed. I think a vanilla red 4/3 for 3 is a big deal, if the rest of the aggro curve is there (and I plan for it to be.)
For the Raptor, that's exactly why I put it at uncommon instead of common. Like I said, the design formula for the uncommons is basically the same as for the commons. But that formula interacts with those three uncommon cards in a way that makes them special. As a drafter, I would despise Polynya Raptor if I had to contend with my opponents pulling it at common frequency. But I'm fine if some blue tempo deck picks it up for Constructed use. I felt like the uncommon position was the way to balance it.