For my custom set: Coins of Mercalis
I recently had a full 8 player draft of Coins of Mercalis which really helped smooth a few outliers. However in addition to getting players to record their first and last pick of each pack I also have them write a list of liked and disliked cards. What I found really interesting is that for a number of cards they appeared on BOTH lists. So I would like to get some more opinions on these cards by displaying them here.
Be aware that I asked for peoples opinions based on a limited environment rather than for constructed applications.
Ok here we go:
Repeat
Instant (C)
You may tap or untap target creature. You may search your library for up to three cards named Repeat, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library. “Here we go again”
Claret Collector
Creature — Vampire (C)
Flying
Claret Collector can’t block.
When Claret Collector enters the battlefield, each opponent loses 1 life. “History will forget you but I will remember your blood forever.”
2/1
Treasure Ooze
Creature — Ooze (C)
Sacrifice Treasure Ooze: You get a gold counter (Once per turn you may spend a gold counter for 1. A player with ten or more gold counters wins the game.) “It’s acid doesn’t tarnish gold nor silver, but is excellent at burning thieving fingers”
—Lucied, Halvar Enforcer
2/6
Battlelust Ingus
Creature — Elemental (R)
Haste
Vanishing 3 (This permanent enters the battlefield with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from it. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.)
When Battlelust Ingus dies, if it had no time counters on it, return it to the battlefield under an opponent’s control.
3/1
Boundless MappingX
Sorcery (U)
Reveal X cards from the top of your library. Put all basic land cards revealed this way onto the battlefield tapped and the rest into your graveyard. For the elves each new vista is a potential wonder. For the cities its a potential profit.
Some of these might be contentious just because they can be swingy (Boundless, Repeat, Claret) or have tougher decisions to make? (the Ooze) The elemental is pretty tough but some people might not be satisfied with the more complex nature of the drawback. Claret is probably just a grudge-causer because he's a damn fine common when drafted in multiples.
Should Battlelust be an Ignus or is that not a typo?
Was Repeat disliked because it's not very good? Because that's my assessment of it. 2UU: Tap or untap 2 things, or 3UUU: Tap or untap 3 things is still pretty blah. I think it's underpowered and could honestly cost U (Gigadrowse) while still feeling underwhelming. The fact that you have to waste 3 or 4 picks on making the card actually worthwhile is not where a lot of players want to be. A card that encourages drafting multiples should be very powerful if you can hit the jackpot, not merely mediocre.
Claret Collecter and Treasure Ooze are fine. Collector is a solid pseudo-haste evasive guy. The ooze is limited Filler; every set has to have cards nobody really WANTS to play. That's the reward for drafting well: You don't have to play those cards. A 5-mana 2/6 isn't where you ever want to be, but he has the upside of giving you a gold counter. I'm not that familiar with your set (though I have looked at it and I like it!), so maybe he's better than he seems, but I'm not sure I'd be excited about him. That's okay, though. As I said, not every card should be exciting; that's what creates tension in a draft. Am I going to be stuck playing this bad 14th-pick creature?
Battlelust Ignus is totally fine. If he lived long enough for his drawback to kick in, he smacked your opponent hard enough that they should be very dead. The only way is if they have a 0/4 or better guy that stonewalls him, but as a red 2-drop rare, I think it's okay for him to get hosed by a wall. Red is all-in, after all.
Boundless Mapping is the card that I would say I like the least. It's very high-variance, which is a negative in most players' eyes. Unlike things like Mulch or Satyr Wayfinder, it won't draw you out of a low-land situation unless you get very lucky. For two mana, those cards give you four cards to hit your land (and Mulch can hit multiples), while this would give you only one. Since most limited decks are 23/17 splits, this would hit only ~43% of cards, meaning to get more value than Rampant Growth, you will have to, on average, spend 3G, which you would expect about 1.4 lands. Explosive Vegetation guarantees 2 land for 3G. Cultivate/Kodama's Reach guarantee two lands as well for 2G. While this COULD hit 3 for 3G, it's extremely unlikely. Plus, you don't get your choice of land, so it's not even a good splash enabler. On the whole, it seems like a mashed-up, worse version of all those cards, so I can see why it was disliked. In order to get good value, you have to be past the point where you need to ramp any further, barring some Worldspine Wurm-esque bomb.
Mulch and Satyr Wayfinder were also particularly good because of a number of synergies within their respective sets for cards in the graveyard (Flashback and the minor BG graveyard theme in Theros). They put a large number of cards into the graveyard for a relatively small risk/investment as well as finding you lands. For the same mana, this only puts one in the yard, and that's if you whiff. Even if there is a strong graveyard theme, it's tough to say that I'd ever want to spend my whole sixth turn milling myself for 2 or 3 cards and putting 2 or 3 lands onto the battlefield tapped. Maybe if they came in untapped? That way you could at least cast a big one and do something else with your turn.
(obviously the numbers I posted are not exact, but depend on how many lands you have drawn, etc.)
Repeat - Squadron Hawk mechanics can sometimes be a bit tedious. Was that the concern here? This might be something that not a lot of players would want, which would mean that at common the player that does decide to go this direction might be able to pick up a lot of them later in the pack.
Claret Collector - This seems good enough for limited. Maybe the "each opponent" part makes it seem like you are not getting the full value out of it in a two player game. If you are looking for ways to improve this:
- The enter trigger could almost just be haste. Or possibly add to it to make it a little more different from haste? Something like "You gain life equal to the life lost this way"?
- The can't block could be Air Bladder. Simplifying a little, a black colorshifted Skywinder Drake would be really good.
Treasure Ooze - I've seen the 10 gold to win the game idea from a lot of different peopls, but the noninteractivity of collecting gold to win always seems like it would lead to bad design and boring gameplay.
- Might this just be better as:
Sacrifice a creature: Add B to your mana pool. <Activate this ability only once each turn?>
Battlelust Ingus - The threat of them being able to steal your creature if they have something like a Wall of Frost is probably what is disliked most here. How many common and uncommon creatures in this set have 0 power and 4 or higher toughness?
maximumbuttitude: Without seeing the art, I'm guessing Ingus means that it is an Elemental made out of a gold ingot.
Boundless Mapping - This is already swingy enough that it could probably just put all land cards. It would be really strong in 40 card land decks in eternal formats, but I'm not sure how much of a concern that should be.
I'm not sure where the contention comes from with Claret Collector. It's a Blood-Toll Harpy that trades not pinging yourself for the ability to chump block. Blood-Toll is a fine card for limited, so Claret should be as well, assuming there no Vampire-tribal things that make it bonkers.
Likewise, Treasure Ooze is just Catacomb Slug, which was never a popular card. The Gold counter ability seems like it shouldn't come up too frequently to swing games, especially if you already have the ability to cast something for 4B. I can understand why this card would be disliked, but I'm surprised that it also made it's way to the list of liked cards. I'm guessing someone just fell in love with the idea of the 'golden victory' and ignored everything else about the card.
Should Battlelust be an Ignus or is that not a typo?
Thats a typo. I agree that the complex nature of the elemental is something I am considering redesigning as I've had feedback that it doesn't feel rare and I realized it compares very badly to Spike Jester.
Repeat was liked by the majority of the players especially the player who managed three of them in the draft. The one who I believe disliked it may have originally been aiming to get more than a single copy and was frustrated when they got cutoff by the other player. The mana cost is fine as if you have three, four or more copies (remember no card limit in draft!) then you can get a fair bit of card advantage as well as a bunch of versatile spells.
Quote from maximumbuttitude »
I've seen the 10 gold to win the game idea from a lot of different peopls, but the noninteractivity of collecting gold to win always seems like it would lead to bad design and boring gameplay.
The gold counter mechanic works well in my set fine due to the inclusion of the reshape mechanic to provide interaction. The gold counter win condition is achievable but difficult. The main complaint about this card was the terrible body which is fine as he suits the curve of the black gold deck and can provide ramp into any big bombs or get you closer to 10. I'll have to ask what they liked about it when our playgroup next meets up. Maybe the flavour text?
Boundless Mapping is a card I really love the design of as it is soo flexible while allowing you to fill your graveyard for black green. Players that got minimal value from this didn't like it much but one player in the draft was playing black/green re-animator I saw him cast it whenever he had spare mana as he didn't care about if he filled his graveyard or upped his land count. If I see it start to underperform even in the green/black deck then I'll take a look at its design again and try and tweak it.
What about this as a possible Battleust replacement?
Battlerage EntityXR
Creature - Elemental {R}
Trample, haste
Battlerage Entity enters the battlefield with X time counters on it.
Vanishing (At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from this permanent. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.)
Battlerage Entity gets +1/+1 for each time counter on it.
2/0
Are there any cards that specifically benefit or enable cards with vanishing? Since this has a printed 0 toughness, you could just use +1/+1 counters to simplify it.
Trample, haste
Battlerage Entity enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a +1/+1 counter from Battlerage Entity.
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I recently had a full 8 player draft of Coins of Mercalis which really helped smooth a few outliers. However in addition to getting players to record their first and last pick of each pack I also have them write a list of liked and disliked cards. What I found really interesting is that for a number of cards they appeared on BOTH lists. So I would like to get some more opinions on these cards by displaying them here.
Be aware that I asked for peoples opinions based on a limited environment rather than for constructed applications.
Ok here we go:
Repeat
Instant (C)
You may tap or untap target creature. You may search your library for up to three cards named Repeat, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
“Here we go again”
Claret Collector
Creature — Vampire (C)
Flying
Claret Collector can’t block.
When Claret Collector enters the battlefield, each opponent loses 1 life.
“History will forget you but I will remember your blood forever.”
2/1
Treasure Ooze
Creature — Ooze (C)
Sacrifice Treasure Ooze: You get a gold counter (Once per turn you may spend a gold counter for 1. A player with ten or more gold counters wins the game.)
“It’s acid doesn’t tarnish gold nor silver, but is excellent at burning thieving fingers”
—Lucied, Halvar Enforcer
2/6
Battlelust Ingus
Creature — Elemental (R)
Haste
Vanishing 3 (This permanent enters the battlefield with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from it. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.)
When Battlelust Ingus dies, if it had no time counters on it, return it to the battlefield under an opponent’s control.
3/1
Boundless Mapping X
Sorcery (U)
Reveal X cards from the top of your library. Put all basic land cards revealed this way onto the battlefield tapped and the rest into your graveyard.
For the elves each new vista is a potential wonder. For the cities its a potential profit.
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
Should Battlelust be an Ignus or is that not a typo?
Claret Collecter and Treasure Ooze are fine. Collector is a solid pseudo-haste evasive guy. The ooze is limited Filler; every set has to have cards nobody really WANTS to play. That's the reward for drafting well: You don't have to play those cards. A 5-mana 2/6 isn't where you ever want to be, but he has the upside of giving you a gold counter. I'm not that familiar with your set (though I have looked at it and I like it!), so maybe he's better than he seems, but I'm not sure I'd be excited about him. That's okay, though. As I said, not every card should be exciting; that's what creates tension in a draft. Am I going to be stuck playing this bad 14th-pick creature?
Battlelust Ignus is totally fine. If he lived long enough for his drawback to kick in, he smacked your opponent hard enough that they should be very dead. The only way is if they have a 0/4 or better guy that stonewalls him, but as a red 2-drop rare, I think it's okay for him to get hosed by a wall. Red is all-in, after all.
Boundless Mapping is the card that I would say I like the least. It's very high-variance, which is a negative in most players' eyes. Unlike things like Mulch or Satyr Wayfinder, it won't draw you out of a low-land situation unless you get very lucky. For two mana, those cards give you four cards to hit your land (and Mulch can hit multiples), while this would give you only one. Since most limited decks are 23/17 splits, this would hit only ~43% of cards, meaning to get more value than Rampant Growth, you will have to, on average, spend 3G, which you would expect about 1.4 lands. Explosive Vegetation guarantees 2 land for 3G. Cultivate/Kodama's Reach guarantee two lands as well for 2G. While this COULD hit 3 for 3G, it's extremely unlikely. Plus, you don't get your choice of land, so it's not even a good splash enabler. On the whole, it seems like a mashed-up, worse version of all those cards, so I can see why it was disliked. In order to get good value, you have to be past the point where you need to ramp any further, barring some Worldspine Wurm-esque bomb.
Mulch and Satyr Wayfinder were also particularly good because of a number of synergies within their respective sets for cards in the graveyard (Flashback and the minor BG graveyard theme in Theros). They put a large number of cards into the graveyard for a relatively small risk/investment as well as finding you lands. For the same mana, this only puts one in the yard, and that's if you whiff. Even if there is a strong graveyard theme, it's tough to say that I'd ever want to spend my whole sixth turn milling myself for 2 or 3 cards and putting 2 or 3 lands onto the battlefield tapped. Maybe if they came in untapped? That way you could at least cast a big one and do something else with your turn.
(obviously the numbers I posted are not exact, but depend on how many lands you have drawn, etc.)
BBB Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief BBB
GBW Ghave, Guru of Spores WBG
BUG Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
UBU Sexy Wrexy BUB
RUG Riku of Two Reflections GUR
GGG Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant GGG
Claret Collector - This seems good enough for limited. Maybe the "each opponent" part makes it seem like you are not getting the full value out of it in a two player game. If you are looking for ways to improve this:
- The enter trigger could almost just be haste. Or possibly add to it to make it a little more different from haste? Something like "You gain life equal to the life lost this way"?
- The can't block could be Air Bladder. Simplifying a little, a black colorshifted Skywinder Drake would be really good.
Treasure Ooze - I've seen the 10 gold to win the game idea from a lot of different peopls, but the noninteractivity of collecting gold to win always seems like it would lead to bad design and boring gameplay.
- Might this just be better as:
Sacrifice a creature: Add B to your mana pool. <Activate this ability only once each turn?>
Battlelust Ingus - The threat of them being able to steal your creature if they have something like a Wall of Frost is probably what is disliked most here. How many common and uncommon creatures in this set have 0 power and 4 or higher toughness?
maximumbuttitude: Without seeing the art, I'm guessing Ingus means that it is an Elemental made out of a gold ingot.
Boundless Mapping - This is already swingy enough that it could probably just put all land cards. It would be really strong in 40 card land decks in eternal formats, but I'm not sure how much of a concern that should be.
Likewise, Treasure Ooze is just Catacomb Slug, which was never a popular card. The Gold counter ability seems like it shouldn't come up too frequently to swing games, especially if you already have the ability to cast something for 4B. I can understand why this card would be disliked, but I'm surprised that it also made it's way to the list of liked cards. I'm guessing someone just fell in love with the idea of the 'golden victory' and ignored everything else about the card.
Repeat was liked by the majority of the players especially the player who managed three of them in the draft. The one who I believe disliked it may have originally been aiming to get more than a single copy and was frustrated when they got cutoff by the other player. The mana cost is fine as if you have three, four or more copies (remember no card limit in draft!) then you can get a fair bit of card advantage as well as a bunch of versatile spells.
The gold counter mechanic works well in my set fine due to the inclusion of the reshape mechanic to provide interaction. The gold counter win condition is achievable but difficult. The main complaint about this card was the terrible body which is fine as he suits the curve of the black gold deck and can provide ramp into any big bombs or get you closer to 10. I'll have to ask what they liked about it when our playgroup next meets up. Maybe the flavour text?
Boundless Mapping is a card I really love the design of as it is soo flexible while allowing you to fill your graveyard for black green. Players that got minimal value from this didn't like it much but one player in the draft was playing black/green re-animator I saw him cast it whenever he had spare mana as he didn't care about if he filled his graveyard or upped his land count. If I see it start to underperform even in the green/black deck then I'll take a look at its design again and try and tweak it.
What about this as a possible Battleust replacement?
Battlerage Entity XR
Creature - Elemental {R}
Trample, haste
Battlerage Entity enters the battlefield with X time counters on it.
Vanishing (At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from this permanent. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.)
Battlerage Entity gets +1/+1 for each time counter on it.
2/0
Are you designing commons? Check out my primer on NWO.
Interested in making a custom set? Check out my Set skeleton and archetype primer.
I also write articles about getting started with custom card creation.
Go and PLAYTEST your designs, you will learn more in a single playtests than a dozen discussions.
My custom sets:
Dreamscape
Coins of Mercalis [COMPLETE]
Exodus of Zendikar - ON HOLD
Are there any cards that specifically benefit or enable cards with vanishing? Since this has a printed 0 toughness, you could just use +1/+1 counters to simplify it.
Trample, haste
Battlerage Entity enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a +1/+1 counter from Battlerage Entity.