Spectrum — Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
Refraction Adept2U
Creature — Merfolk Wizard [C]
Spectrum — When Refraction Adept enters the battlefield, draw a card for each color among permanents you control, then put that many cards from your hand on the bottom of your library in any order.
[1/4]
Coalition Dregs1B
Enchantment [C]
Spectrum — At the beginning of your upkeep, each opponent puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of colors among permanents you control.
Spectrum — Viashino Striker gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
[0/1]
Vibrant RootwallaG
Creature — Lizard [C]
Spectrum — 2G: Vibrant Rootwalla gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each color among permanents you control. Activate this ability only once each turn.
[1/1]
Order of Nyomba2W
Creature — Human Cleric Knight [U]
Vigilance
Spectrum — :symtap:: Target creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn for each color among permanents you control.
[2/2]
Tormentor Djinn4B
Creature — Djinn [U]
Spectrum — Tormentor Djinn gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
Whenever Tormentor Djinn deals combat damage to a creature, that creature’s controller loses that much life.
[1/4]
Arcane Arsenal4R
Enchantment — Aura [U]
Enchant creature
Spectrum — Enchanted creature has “:symtap:: This creature deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of colors among permanents you control.”
Chromatic Hellkite6RR
Creature — Dragon [R]
Flying
Spectrum — Chromatic Hellkite gets +2/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
1R: Target permanent becomes the color of your choice until end of turn.
[4/6]
I'm going with this version of the Coalition's big "play more colors" mechanic. (Sorry, prime.) It's the version that's most similar to domain.
I'm aiming to put this mechanic on 15-25 cards in the set. It will only exist on creatures and enchantments in this set.
I think Refraction Adept should be better than Index. Either it could be a Scry effect or a full-on Impulse. Worldly Council was never a gamebreaker. Maybe drop it to a 1/3 in case you go with this to make it more in line with Sea-Gate Oracle. Also, Coalition Training could probably give a full +1/+1 per color instead of just +1/+0.
The red cards look a little pushed over the others, but maybe that's intentional on your side?
I personally dislike the effect on Refraction Adept. One of the reasons scry is so popular is that Augury Owl does everything right Sage Owl does not. If you don't want to use scry directly, there are many variants on the effect that put most of the cards anywhere but back on top of the library.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
The red cards look a little pushed over the others, but maybe that's intentional on your side?
Semi-intentional. "~NAME~ gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control." is probably the most organic possible use of this mechanic, so I wanted to make sure that at least some of the cards that used it were good. White (well, green) already has an efficient, common, multicolor-themed first striker that I want to keep intact, so it was just a matter of deduction to give the good stuff to red.
Also, Coalition Training could probably give a full +1/+1 per color instead of just +1/+0.
Spectrum doesn't do well with toughness-granting static abilities. That's because the spectrum state is more fragile than domain - it's more likely that the number of colors under your control is going to fluctuate over any given turn, especially because of combat. Combat math becomes ponderous, when you have to worry about your creature dying post-combat because its toughness decreased to meet the amount of damage it had already taken. That's why the effects here that do grant toughness lock it in for the turn at the time of the activated ability's resolution.
I personally dislike the effect on Refraction Adept. One of the reasons scry is so popular is that Augury Owl does everything right Sage Owl does not. If you don't want to use scry directly, there are many variants on the effect that put most of the cards anywhere but back on top of the library.
I wrestled with this one a bit. I agree, but I would also like a library-sorting effect (not scry, but something else) at common. Does the card become too complex for common if I upgrade the ability to something better than Index? I also like the feature that the ability is especially bad in a monoblue deck. But I do want it to be good in a multicolor deck. What would you think of the following version?
Refraction Adept2U
Creature - Merfolk Wizard [C]
Spectrum — When Refraction Adept enters the battlefield, draw a card for each color among permanents you control, then put that many cards from your hand on the bottom of your library in any order.
Spectrum — When Refraction Adept enters the battlefield, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the number of colors among permanents you control, then put them back in any order.
I'm personally not a fan of the non-square p/t on the self-pumpers, but I can see why it's there.
What is the purpose of Coalition Dregs? Does the 5-color mill deck need one of its key engines to be black instead of blue? Is this deck well-supported enough to make it worth putting this card at common? (Curse of the Bloody Tome at least had the excuse that it was in a graveyard-themed set, so the milled cards were more relevant than usual.)
I think the white pump should give +1/+1. Being able to kill the creature by reducing it's toughness when it has stacked combat damage is a good thing imo. It increases the number of plays possible and rewards good plays.
The added complexity to the game (more math to be done) is more then compensated with the additional depth, which should make the choice a non-brainer, unless you want a to make a starter's set were there's a fixed limit for complexity.
Arcane Arsenal is unbalanced imo. In the vast majority of time the burn enabled the turn you play it will already be good enough for the card to exist, but this is repeatable and have potential to cause a lot of damage. Fire Fusillade costs 1 less mana, always pings for 1 and it lasts a single turn. It works with lands/artifacts/enchantments in play but honestly that's not a really big upside. Arcane Arsenal will normaly cause at least twice as much damage.
Imo Arcane Arsenal pinging for 1 would be perfectly balanced (it would be a HUGE limited/EDH bomb and very fringe standard card, but still playable in many number of metas). This is undercosted. It would very easilly cost around 5RR.
Imo Arcane Arsenal pinging for 1 would be perfectly balanced (it would be a HUGE limited/EDH bomb and very fringe standard card, but still playable in many number of metas). This is undercosted. It would very easilly cost around 5RR.
Arcane Arsenal pinging for 1 would be Power of Fire overcosted by :3mana:.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Coalition Dregs could be blue obviously. And black could instead have:
Negative Influence (Common) B
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets -1/-1 for each color among permanents you control.
I love your comment because it gives me an opportunity to discuss why I didn't do each of those things.
Order of Nyomba doesn't have a lot of complexity on its surface, so it does look like common material at first. But I chose to make it uncommon because, in practice, it will add a lot of combat math to Limited. Your opponent is going to have to consider every attacking or blocking assignment in light of the potential of its activated ability to mess with that assignment's outcome. To me, Limited is much more fun when you only have to contend with cards like that on occasion. So I prefer that it's uncommon, even if it reads like a common on paper.
Coalition Dregs could be blue. But it also could be black. And one of the things I'm trying to do with spectrum is to create spectrum cards for as many different kinds of decks as possible. You don't necessarily want them all in the same deck together. For reasons I'll mention in a second, I think spectrum is going to be a lot leggier in other colors than in black, so I'm erring on the side of giving mechanics to black, if there's an option for a mechanic to go into one of a few different colors.
Regarding your Negative Influence card, here's what I realized: one of the nice things about spectrum is that you should be able to look down at your side of the board, see all the colors there, and be able to recognize in a split second what your spectrum count is. But if permanents you control are sitting over on your opponent's side of the table, that will introduce a lot of errors into how you count it. So I don't want to do any Auras that will typically end up sitting on an opponent's creature. That's why I'm overcompensating and giving black other mechanics, because that's a big chunk of cards that black could have that I don't want to design.
In any case, thanks for the feedback. I will still consider everybody's suggestions (maybe Dregs could end up being blue, who knows?)
I doubt Negative Influence would be on the board long enough to cause counting trouble.
I don't know of any permanents you control that sitt over on your opponent's side of the table except for Auras. One or two Spectrum Auras wouldn't cause counting errors, especially in the case of Negative Influence.
I presumed your reasonings behind Coalition Dregs and Order of Nyomba. It just bugs me to see black doing something blue better than blue does it. Black or blue, I think it will wind up being uncommon because even one would be quite potent in 40 card deck limited - nevermind multiples.
It just bugs me to see black doing something blue better than blue does it.
Is there a reason why this effect is more blue than black? We have both Grisly Spectacle and Returned Centaur in Standard. There are examples of repeatableeffects in Modern. Is it just because it's on an enchantment? Because it happens during upkeep?
Just trying to understand where people perceive the line to be.
Grisly Spectacle, Geth, and the Demon all have a primary effect of something other than being the wincon in a milling deck. Grisly is a "Dimir flavored" kill spell. Geth is a reanimation engine that feeds itself. Demon can either be a dumb beater that ignores the trigger, a combo-mill-kill in a deck with lots of sac outlets, or a way to feed your own unearth engine.
Returned Centaur bothers me, but it's the kind of thing I'm fine with as long as they don't do it too often, and it does have a purpose (being a vanilla 2/4) beyond the mill deck.
Coalition Dregs is only playable as being the wincon in a milling deck, largely because you can't mill yourself. Unless the archetype is being specifically pushed for thematic reasons, I don't want to see more than one or two pure mill cards at common, and I would prefer them to be blue rather than any other color.
Is there a reason why this effect is more blue than black? We have both Grisly Spectacle and Returned Centaur in Standard. There are examples of repeatableeffects in Modern. Is it just because it's on an enchantment? Because it happens during upkeep?
Just trying to understand where people perceive the line to be.
Black mill shouldn't be superior to blue mill and definitely shouldn't obsolete an existing blue mill card. That being said, I think it's more important that it be uncommon than it be blue. It might make an interesting artifact since it wouldn't count itself that way?
I suppose Negative Influence could just as easily be an instant/sorcery, but it's entirely parasitic that way. An obvious cycle would include it.
Spectrum seems obselete. I don't see any significant difference between it and domain. They fill the same role in a very similar way mechanically and with no real new strategy to it
I appreciate the perspective, and welcome to the forums. I do think you're missing a lot of the context of the set (what makes it different from domain) but I blame myself for that since my master set page is an outdated travesty at this point.
I'm on mobile so I can't easily link you to some examples, but I will try to update later. Also, most of the cards in the first post have been revised elsewhere. I need an organizational update so bad.
What is the baseline target for the number of colors you are likely to have out for spectrum? Cards with domain were designed approximately so that having three basic land types would be a normal power level. A lot of these seem to be designed aimed at just controlling two colors, which means they ramp up in power easier and further than domain.
Coalition Training - If you really wanted +1/+1, you could do it as a trigger when enchanted creature attacks or blocks. I think just +1/+0 is probably fine though.
- Should Auras with spectrum abilities be limited to "Enchant creature you control"?
Refraction Adept - The new version is definitely nicer. Is it okay that it is a Horned Turtle with a good creature type in addition to the good trigger? Maybe it should just be 1/3?
Coalition Dregs - Feels like it should be either uncommon or cost one mana more.
Vishino Striker - Feels like it should be three mana.
Vibrant Rootwalla - Looks good. The activated ability might want to go up by one mana.
Order of Nyomba - I agree that you do not want this card at common. Vigilance also adds a lot of complication to this effect.
- Just putting out an idea:
Order of Nyomba variation 2W Creature — Human Cleric Knight (C)
Vigilance Spectrum — T: CARDNAME gets +0/+1 until end of turn for each color among permanents you control.
2/2
The activated ability allows you to do the toughness pumping without the headache of changing numbers. Vigilance allows you to apply it when you want. Does it really need to be able to give the toughness pump to any creature? Or would it be enough to just pump itself?
Tormentor Djinn - Interesting ability combined with spectrum. Does it want to be on a card with lower toughness though? Then your opponent has more incentive to try to block and kill it in combat.
Arcane Arsenal - This is the same mana cost as Burning Anger, so it is in about the right spot. Although, maybe this should also be a rare like Burning Anger.
Chromatic Hellkite - I like typically nonred color-changing ability on a red Dragon (reminiscent of abilities like Rimescale Dragon and Boldwyr Intimidator), but the numbers feel off. It starts as 6/6 even in a monocolored deck, and with full spectrum it is 14/6. What if it was 0/6 for 4RR or 5RR?
I think the white pump should give +1/+1. Being able to kill the creature by reducing it's toughness when it has stacked combat damage is a good thing imo. It increases the number of plays possible and rewards good plays.
The added complexity to the game (more math to be done) is more then compensated with the additional depth, which should make the choice a non-brainer, unless you want a to make a starter's set were there's a fixed limit for complexity.
There is a big difference between rewarding good plays and punishing bad plays. I think the potential problems with using static toughness pumping for a spectrum ability would lead more often to moments where you too easily miscount something and feel like you screwed up rather than that your opponent was smart and found a good play.
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Enchantment — Aura [C]
Enchant creature
Spectrum — Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
Creature — Merfolk Wizard [C]
Spectrum — When Refraction Adept enters the battlefield, draw a card for each color among permanents you control, then put that many cards from your hand on the bottom of your library in any order.
[1/4]
Enchantment [C]
Spectrum — At the beginning of your upkeep, each opponent puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of colors among permanents you control.
Creature — Viashino Warrior [C]
First strike
Spectrum — Viashino Striker gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
[0/1]
Creature — Lizard [C]
Spectrum — 2G: Vibrant Rootwalla gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each color among permanents you control. Activate this ability only once each turn.
[1/1]
Creature — Human Cleric Knight [U]
Vigilance
Spectrum — :symtap:: Target creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn for each color among permanents you control.
[2/2]
Creature — Djinn [U]
Spectrum — Tormentor Djinn gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
Whenever Tormentor Djinn deals combat damage to a creature, that creature’s controller loses that much life.
[1/4]
Enchantment — Aura [U]
Enchant creature
Spectrum — Enchanted creature has “:symtap:: This creature deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of colors among permanents you control.”
Creature — Dragon [R]
Flying
Spectrum — Chromatic Hellkite gets +2/+0 for each color among permanents you control.
1R: Target permanent becomes the color of your choice until end of turn.
[4/6]
I'm aiming to put this mechanic on 15-25 cards in the set. It will only exist on creatures and enchantments in this set.
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I personally dislike the effect on Refraction Adept. One of the reasons scry is so popular is that Augury Owl does everything right Sage Owl does not. If you don't want to use scry directly, there are many variants on the effect that put most of the cards anywhere but back on top of the library.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Semi-intentional. "~NAME~ gets +1/+0 for each color among permanents you control." is probably the most organic possible use of this mechanic, so I wanted to make sure that at least some of the cards that used it were good. White (well, green) already has an efficient, common, multicolor-themed first striker that I want to keep intact, so it was just a matter of deduction to give the good stuff to red.
Spectrum doesn't do well with toughness-granting static abilities. That's because the spectrum state is more fragile than domain - it's more likely that the number of colors under your control is going to fluctuate over any given turn, especially because of combat. Combat math becomes ponderous, when you have to worry about your creature dying post-combat because its toughness decreased to meet the amount of damage it had already taken. That's why the effects here that do grant toughness lock it in for the turn at the time of the activated ability's resolution.
I wrestled with this one a bit. I agree, but I would also like a library-sorting effect (not scry, but something else) at common. Does the card become too complex for common if I upgrade the ability to something better than Index? I also like the feature that the ability is especially bad in a monoblue deck. But I do want it to be good in a multicolor deck. What would you think of the following version?
Creature - Merfolk Wizard [C]
Spectrum — When Refraction Adept enters the battlefield, draw a card for each color among permanents you control, then put that many cards from your hand on the bottom of your library in any order.
[1/4]
Refraction Adept, Crappy Version2UCreature — Merfolk Wizard [C]
Spectrum — When Refraction Adept enters the battlefield, look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the number of colors among permanents you control, then put them back in any order.
[1/4]
What is the purpose of Coalition Dregs? Does the 5-color mill deck need one of its key engines to be black instead of blue? Is this deck well-supported enough to make it worth putting this card at common? (Curse of the Bloody Tome at least had the excuse that it was in a graveyard-themed set, so the milled cards were more relevant than usual.)
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The added complexity to the game (more math to be done) is more then compensated with the additional depth, which should make the choice a non-brainer, unless you want a to make a starter's set were there's a fixed limit for complexity.
Arcane Arsenal is unbalanced imo. In the vast majority of time the burn enabled the turn you play it will already be good enough for the card to exist, but this is repeatable and have potential to cause a lot of damage. Fire Fusillade costs 1 less mana, always pings for 1 and it lasts a single turn. It works with lands/artifacts/enchantments in play but honestly that's not a really big upside. Arcane Arsenal will normaly cause at least twice as much damage.
Imo Arcane Arsenal pinging for 1 would be perfectly balanced (it would be a HUGE limited/EDH bomb and very fringe standard card, but still playable in many number of metas). This is undercosted. It would very easilly cost around 5RR.
BGU Control
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Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Arcane Arsenal pinging for 1 would be Power of Fire overcosted by :3mana:.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
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Coalition Dregs could be blue obviously. And black could instead have:
Negative Influence (Common)
B
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets -1/-1 for each color among permanents you control.
I love your comment because it gives me an opportunity to discuss why I didn't do each of those things.
Order of Nyomba doesn't have a lot of complexity on its surface, so it does look like common material at first. But I chose to make it uncommon because, in practice, it will add a lot of combat math to Limited. Your opponent is going to have to consider every attacking or blocking assignment in light of the potential of its activated ability to mess with that assignment's outcome. To me, Limited is much more fun when you only have to contend with cards like that on occasion. So I prefer that it's uncommon, even if it reads like a common on paper.
Coalition Dregs could be blue. But it also could be black. And one of the things I'm trying to do with spectrum is to create spectrum cards for as many different kinds of decks as possible. You don't necessarily want them all in the same deck together. For reasons I'll mention in a second, I think spectrum is going to be a lot leggier in other colors than in black, so I'm erring on the side of giving mechanics to black, if there's an option for a mechanic to go into one of a few different colors.
Regarding your Negative Influence card, here's what I realized: one of the nice things about spectrum is that you should be able to look down at your side of the board, see all the colors there, and be able to recognize in a split second what your spectrum count is. But if permanents you control are sitting over on your opponent's side of the table, that will introduce a lot of errors into how you count it. So I don't want to do any Auras that will typically end up sitting on an opponent's creature. That's why I'm overcompensating and giving black other mechanics, because that's a big chunk of cards that black could have that I don't want to design.
In any case, thanks for the feedback. I will still consider everybody's suggestions (maybe Dregs could end up being blue, who knows?)
I don't know of any permanents you control that sitt over on your opponent's side of the table except for Auras. One or two Spectrum Auras wouldn't cause counting errors, especially in the case of Negative Influence.
I presumed your reasonings behind Coalition Dregs and Order of Nyomba. It just bugs me to see black doing something blue better than blue does it. Black or blue, I think it will wind up being uncommon because even one would be quite potent in 40 card deck limited - nevermind multiples.
Is there a reason why this effect is more blue than black? We have both Grisly Spectacle and Returned Centaur in Standard. There are examples of repeatable effects in Modern. Is it just because it's on an enchantment? Because it happens during upkeep?
Just trying to understand where people perceive the line to be.
Returned Centaur bothers me, but it's the kind of thing I'm fine with as long as they don't do it too often, and it does have a purpose (being a vanilla 2/4) beyond the mill deck.
Coalition Dregs is only playable as being the wincon in a milling deck, largely because you can't mill yourself. Unless the archetype is being specifically pushed for thematic reasons, I don't want to see more than one or two pure mill cards at common, and I would prefer them to be blue rather than any other color.
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Black mill shouldn't be superior to blue mill and definitely shouldn't obsolete an existing blue mill card. That being said, I think it's more important that it be uncommon than it be blue. It might make an interesting artifact since it wouldn't count itself that way?
I suppose Negative Influence could just as easily be an instant/sorcery, but it's entirely parasitic that way. An obvious cycle would include it.
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I appreciate the perspective, and welcome to the forums. I do think you're missing a lot of the context of the set (what makes it different from domain) but I blame myself for that since my master set page is an outdated travesty at this point.
I'm on mobile so I can't easily link you to some examples, but I will try to update later. Also, most of the cards in the first post have been revised elsewhere. I need an organizational update so bad.
Coalition Training - If you really wanted +1/+1, you could do it as a trigger when enchanted creature attacks or blocks. I think just +1/+0 is probably fine though.
- Should Auras with spectrum abilities be limited to "Enchant creature you control"?
Refraction Adept - The new version is definitely nicer. Is it okay that it is a Horned Turtle with a good creature type in addition to the good trigger? Maybe it should just be 1/3?
Coalition Dregs - Feels like it should be either uncommon or cost one mana more.
Vishino Striker - Feels like it should be three mana.
Vibrant Rootwalla - Looks good. The activated ability might want to go up by one mana.
Order of Nyomba - I agree that you do not want this card at common. Vigilance also adds a lot of complication to this effect.
- Just putting out an idea:
Creature — Human Cleric Knight (C)
Vigilance
Spectrum — T: CARDNAME gets +0/+1 until end of turn for each color among permanents you control.
2/2
The activated ability allows you to do the toughness pumping without the headache of changing numbers. Vigilance allows you to apply it when you want. Does it really need to be able to give the toughness pump to any creature? Or would it be enough to just pump itself?
Tormentor Djinn - Interesting ability combined with spectrum. Does it want to be on a card with lower toughness though? Then your opponent has more incentive to try to block and kill it in combat.
Arcane Arsenal - This is the same mana cost as Burning Anger, so it is in about the right spot. Although, maybe this should also be a rare like Burning Anger.
Chromatic Hellkite - I like typically nonred color-changing ability on a red Dragon (reminiscent of abilities like Rimescale Dragon and Boldwyr Intimidator), but the numbers feel off. It starts as 6/6 even in a monocolored deck, and with full spectrum it is 14/6. What if it was 0/6 for 4RR or 5RR?
There is a big difference between rewarding good plays and punishing bad plays. I think the potential problems with using static toughness pumping for a spectrum ability would lead more often to moments where you too easily miscount something and feel like you screwed up rather than that your opponent was smart and found a good play.