Relax :symu::symu:
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller skips his or her next turn.
has the problem of finding the right cost. It just doesn't feel right to put two such traditionally blue intensive effects at :3mana::symu: or something like that. On the other hand its a choice that's almost no choice at all, so is it really anything but Counterspell?
So, maybe the other way around:
Force of Time :3mana::symu::symu:
Instant
You may cast ~ without paying its mana cost. If you do, skip your next turn.
Counter target spell. How much value is there in extending a life that is not lived?
I like how the mostly irrelevant mana cost ties this card together with Force of Will and Time Warp at once - its spiritual parents.
Thoughts?
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Force of Time -- too mindbogglingly strong. Any deck can use it, with far less consequences than playing Pact of Negation.
Relax -- worse than counterspell, but (arguably) better than cancel. I'd say it's fine, but then since cancel _is_ the new yardstick for countermagic, too good. I'm not so sure how to fix the cost, though. Tacking on 1 makes it worse than cancel.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Force of Time -- too mindbogglingly strong. Any deck can use it, with far less consequences than playing Pact of Negation.
Good point about the "any deck", obvious fix:
Force of Time :3mana::symu::symu:
Instant
If you control an Island, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost. If you do, skip your next turn.
Counter target spell. How much value is there in extending a life that is not lived?
How exactly do you figure the consequences are far less?
You deny your opponent a spell, but at card and tempo disadvantage. And they soon get the possibility to use their freshly untapped lands to play something else while you get no additional chance to find an answer (and your mana situation won't improve either).
In any situation you do actually end the game before the situation matters, it is equal to Negation Pact.
How exactly do you figure the consequences are far less?
Uhhh... no matter how bad your board position is after losing a turn, it can't be worse than losing the game from being unable to pay pact of negation.
So, the use of pact is severely limited. You have to win when you cast it for 0. On the other hand. you can cast Force of Time and NOT lose. Yes, board position is bad, but it is certainly better to lose a turn than to lose the game.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Gee, Counterspell was deemed too good. How can we balance this? Hey I know, let's make it even stronger! HURRR
yeah, try 3UU for Force of Time.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Uhhh... no matter how bad your board position is after losing a turn, it can't be worse than losing the game from being unable to pay pact of negation.
So, the use of pact is severely limited. You have to win when you cast it for 0. On the other hand. you can cast Force of Time and NOT lose. Yes, board position is bad, but it is certainly better to lose a turn than to lose the game.
Well, this assumes that you are unable to pay the cost no matter what, which may not be true all the time. But I can see how skipping a single turn may not reflect the impact of requiring five mana.
My mistake, I meant Relax. The UU counter. Apologies for that one. Replace Force of Time in that post with Relax.
They deemed Counterspell too good at two blue mana, hence they printed Cancel, raising the standard to three mana.
Now, if Counterspell was too good at two blue mana... why would you not only keep the countering for two blue but tack on the potential for a Time Walk to boot? For no extra cost?
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
My mistake, I meant Relax. The UU counter. Apologies for that one. Replace Force of Time in that post with Relax.
They deemed Counterspell too good at two blue mana, hence they printed Cancel, raising the standard to three mana.
Now, if Counterspell was too good at two blue mana... why would you not only keep the countering for two blue but tack on the potential for a Time Walk to boot? For no extra cost?
aren't you a regular poster here? do you really not see that relax is strictly worse than counterspell?
My mistake, I meant Relax. The UU counter. Apologies for that one. Replace Force of Time in that post with Relax.
They deemed Counterspell too good at two blue mana, hence they printed Cancel, raising the standard to three mana.
Now, if Counterspell was too good at two blue mana... why would you not only keep the countering for two blue but tack on the potential for a Time Walk to boot? For no extra cost?
At UU, relax is strictly worse than counterspell, because it is the opponent that chooses which effect takes place.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
At UU, relax is strictly worse than counterspell, because it is the opponent that chooses which effect takes place.
Yes, and both of them were too good at two mana. Would be a real ***** move to play one of these, have the opponent choose "skip a turn and keep my spell" then counter it with something else anyway. For extra fun, do it with a Force Spike while they're tapped out thinking they can save their spell cause you gave them an option that didn't involve mana, just to keep the mana cost on this as low as possible.
When editing cards in the first post of a thread, PLEASE leave the original so that everyone can comment on the thread and not just those who saw the original. Those who did not see the original can't leave comments as we don't have any idea WTF is going on.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Yes, and both of them were too good at two mana. Would be a real ***** move to play one of these, have the opponent choose "skip a turn and keep my spell" then counter it with something else anyway. For extra fun, do it with a Force Spike while they're tapped out thinking they can save their spell cause you gave them an option that didn't involve mana, just to keep the mana cost on this as low as possible.
Too. Good.
So, you genuinely think that the spell should cost 3UU?
Maybe not quite 3UU, but definitely at least 1UU. Maybe, maybe even 2UU, but then that seems like too much. 1UU seems right to me. UU is definitely too strong though.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Maybe not quite 3UU, but definitely at least 1UU. Maybe, maybe even 2UU, but then that seems like too much. 1UU seems right to me. UU is definitely too strong though.
what part of "strictly worse" don't you understand? you want to print a strictly worse than cancel now which is more expensive too?
Are you really that incapable of manipulating your opponent into doing what you want with this card? Really?
You play it on a card you know they will want to save so that you get the extra turn. You don't play it going "oh gee I really need to counter this". You play it on something you know will get you the extra turn AND THEN you hard counter it with something else. Countered spell and extra turn. Both those effects together cost 6, if you ask Pharmalade.
It's not strictly worse, you just can't understand how to use it properly. Definitely not the fault of the card here.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
please give an exact example in which you attempt to "fake counter" a spell where the opponent would actually give you the time warp instead. with you leaving more counter mana open. i'm really interested when this would happen.
if we can invent hypotheticals with completely incompetent opponents then sure, this card is great.
so yeah, exact example please. board position, game state, what spell, and the opponent isn't a complete idiot.
Gee, I dunno. Any time they play a board sweeper seems like a pretty good one. Doesn't really seem like the kind of thing they'd say "Yeah okay, you;re right, I didn't need that anyway, you can counter it".
Wizards does print easier games, maybe you should look into one of those.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
It's not like they're going to give away the extra turn unless they were probably going to lose if their spell didn't resolve. They're probably screwed if their sweeper gets countered in that scenario, extra turn or not.
Gee, I dunno. Any time they play a board sweeper seems like a pretty good one.
lol. well i guess i feel better because you clearly intentionally left out every detail since you couldn't think of an actual half decent example. still, i expected more than "HURRR i dunno, a SWEEPER??"
so let me get this straight.
1. i'm playing a deck that can power out UU counterspells.
2. i have enough mana to use force of time AND another counterspell. meaning i must have like 1UUUU at my disposal.
3. i apparently, have A LOT of creatures! ok i guess this is that famous mono blue control super aggro deck. i wonder what creatures i even have in play right now? hmm its becoming more clear why you left out every possible detail.
4. the opponent wraths! well how else are you going to stop the famous mono blue control super aggro deck.
5. i tap for UU to counter, leaving 1UU up. not suspicious at all!!
6. the opponent.. decides skip his next turn just to let the wrath resolve! now CLEARLY we can't assume that he's dead on board if the wrath fails because an example using force of time when you WIN NO MATTER WHAT THE OPPONENT CHOOSES is clearly a terrible example to use as an argument to why the card is too good!
7. meaning the opponent ISNT in desparate need of a wrath to resolve, but he time walks himself anyway.
8. knowing you have extra counter mana up.
9. knowing that another counter is possible, if not likely, given that you JUST PLAYED A COUNTERSPELL.
I figured the only blue aggro deck I could think of that is actually any good would be Legacy Merfolk. I guess Fae works too, but I had my Leg Merfolk next to me so....
AEther Vial with three counters in play , Island, Tundra, Island, Wanderwine Hub in play. For creatures I have the new 2/1 Merfolk with First Strike and Lifelink. A Cosi Trickster with two +1/+1 counters from fetchlands and a Lord of Atlantis. My opponent has Tundra Island Volcanic Island, and Counterbalance in play. He played a Brainstorm this game. I swing in for 9, after already dealing 8 from the last turn and fetches. Taking him to 3.
He untaps and casts Firespout without playing a land. If I counter this spell I win the game. So I have two counters in hand, a Daze and Relax. Which do I play?
Daze will win me the game, while Relax give my opponent an option, but I can cast both so whatever. I'll Relax first using your strategy. For this hypothetical he has a land on the top of his library for Counterbalance.
My opponent skips his next turn. So he fell for it. I Daze and win the game.....except he had a Force of Will and countered my Daze. Now I have to come back with no dudes and no cards. What if that Relax was, say a Mana Leak or Another Lord, or Etc? I probably would have won.
If he has to choose the give you a turn option, then he was going to lose anyway. If you had a hard counter in that spot you would just win. Why need an extra turn?
If your playing against a good opponent, they will always choose the option that gives them a better chance to win the game. Nearly every card that gives your opponent choices is bad for that reason.
Force of Time on the other hand is sick. With an Island restriction, and in the same game state instead of Relax, things would get interesting.
I get to keep my team, but my opponent gets two turns to find an answer. Well done! I really like the allusion to Time Warp/Force of will as well.
Pact of Negation already gets used this way, but I agree that two cards like that would be too much.
I have thought about this possibility, but don't know enough about the respective formats to know or even guess how much influence a Pact 5-8 would have in them.
Obviously Force of Time seems like a better choice than Force of Will in those situations, because the card disadvantage on FoW is immediate while the card disadvantage of FoT is delayed (to a moment after your victory).
So which format would be affected worst by the card?
You play it on a card you know they will want to save so that you get the extra turn. You don't play it going "oh gee I really need to counter this". You play it on something you know will get you the extra turn AND THEN you hard counter it with something else. Countered spell and extra turn. Both those effects together cost 6, if you ask Pharmalade.
So assuming Pharmalade is costing the card correctly (which probably is about right), you invest :3mana::symu::symu::symu: and one card to get the two effects with certainity.
Now if you use Relax and Counterspell (chosen because other spells like Mana Leak etc. might not work in every situation) to get the same effects for :symu::symu::symu::symu: and two cards without certainity in situations you are not already winning.
A cantrip costed about :sym2u:. If you consider this cost for the card advantage then the equation actually seems to work out.
What about that?
It's not strictly worse
If your opponent is only going to use the turn-skip option whenever they are about to lose, how is "opponent loses or skips a turn" not strictly worse than "opponent loses, period"?
Force of Time on the other hand is sick. With an Island restriction, and in the same game state instead of Relax, things would get interesting.
I get to keep my team, but my opponent gets two turns to find an answer. Well done! I really like the allusion to Time Warp/Force of will as well.
Thanks.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
care to try again? put in an actual game state and board position this time please. don't forget to consider what your deck is actually playing!
No, I really don't. I'm not doing the brain work for you. Find someone else to hold your hand through this.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
No, I really don't. I'm not doing the brain work for you. Find someone else to hold your hand through this.
got it, you couldn't think of a real example.
infiltrator - sorry for neme's diversion. as you can see, everyone else agrees that relax is strictly worse than counterspell, barring an impossibly bad opponent. the problem is, while its strictly worse than counterspell, its almost the exact same power level since the choices are both so good for you. wizards probably wouldn't print it in today's world since they're trying to steer away from giving control such powerful tools.
at 1UU, however, its definitely fine, since cancel exists.
So assuming Pharmalade is costing the card correctly (which probably is about right), you invest :3mana::symu::symu::symu: and one card to get the two effects with certainity.
Now if you use Relax and Counterspell (chosen because other spells like Mana Leak etc. might not work in every situation) to get the same effects for :symu::symu::symu::symu: and two cards without certainity in situations you are not already winning.
A cantrip costed about :sym2u:. If you consider this cost for the card advantage then the equation actually seems to work out.
What about that?
Forbid was the center of a tournament deck, and it was a counter that basically cost two cards and three mana. I mean, sure it's a different beast when the two cards you need have to be specific cards, but it's still fairly doable. So a card like this, which can be comboed easily with any hard counter, just seems to be too little at two mana. It's one of those rare cards where two mana is too little but then three mana seems almost too much, and then there's nothing you can put in the middle to balance it out.
The fact is, you can play this card and get the effect you want. You can play it on a spell that you need countered but won't break them to get it countered, then it is a counterspell. You can play it on a card you know they will want to save to get the extra turn effect. And if someone can't think about how to do this, life is gonna kick them in the ass hard when it makes them think about things that actually matter in life, and they're gonna fail on their ass when they can't.
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Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
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For reference the inspiration:
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller skips his or her next turn.
So, maybe the other way around:
Instant
You may cast ~ without paying its mana cost. If you do, skip your next turn.
Counter target spell.
How much value is there in extending a life that is not lived?
Thoughts?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Relax -- worse than counterspell, but (arguably) better than cancel. I'd say it's fine, but then since cancel _is_ the new yardstick for countermagic, too good. I'm not so sure how to fix the cost, though. Tacking on 1 makes it worse than cancel.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Good point about the "any deck", obvious fix:
Instant
If you control an Island, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost. If you do, skip your next turn.
Counter target spell.
How much value is there in extending a life that is not lived?
How exactly do you figure the consequences are far less?
You deny your opponent a spell, but at card and tempo disadvantage. And they soon get the possibility to use their freshly untapped lands to play something else while you get no additional chance to find an answer (and your mana situation won't improve either).
In any situation you do actually end the game before the situation matters, it is equal to Negation Pact.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Uhhh... no matter how bad your board position is after losing a turn, it can't be worse than losing the game from being unable to pay pact of negation.
So, the use of pact is severely limited. You have to win when you cast it for 0. On the other hand. you can cast Force of Time and NOT lose. Yes, board position is bad, but it is certainly better to lose a turn than to lose the game.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
yeah, try 3UU for Force of Time.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
Well, this assumes that you are unable to pay the cost no matter what, which may not be true all the time. But I can see how skipping a single turn may not reflect the impact of requiring five mana.
Could you please explain what you are refering to?
I already do, so... huh?
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
They deemed Counterspell too good at two blue mana, hence they printed Cancel, raising the standard to three mana.
Now, if Counterspell was too good at two blue mana... why would you not only keep the countering for two blue but tack on the potential for a Time Walk to boot? For no extra cost?
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
aren't you a regular poster here? do you really not see that relax is strictly worse than counterspell?
At UU, relax is strictly worse than counterspell, because it is the opponent that chooses which effect takes place.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Cannot cast it on your turn to prevent combo decks from splashing it for no consequences to get their combo off undisrupted.
Pact of Negation already gets used this way, but I agree that two cards like that would be too much.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Yes, and both of them were too good at two mana. Would be a real ***** move to play one of these, have the opponent choose "skip a turn and keep my spell" then counter it with something else anyway. For extra fun, do it with a Force Spike while they're tapped out thinking they can save their spell cause you gave them an option that didn't involve mana, just to keep the mana cost on this as low as possible.
Too. Good.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
So, you genuinely think that the spell should cost 3UU?
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
what part of "strictly worse" don't you understand? you want to print a strictly worse than cancel now which is more expensive too?
You play it on a card you know they will want to save so that you get the extra turn. You don't play it going "oh gee I really need to counter this". You play it on something you know will get you the extra turn AND THEN you hard counter it with something else. Countered spell and extra turn. Both those effects together cost 6, if you ask Pharmalade.
It's not strictly worse, you just can't understand how to use it properly. Definitely not the fault of the card here.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
if we can invent hypotheticals with completely incompetent opponents then sure, this card is great.
so yeah, exact example please. board position, game state, what spell, and the opponent isn't a complete idiot.
Wizards does print easier games, maybe you should look into one of those.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
lol. well i guess i feel better because you clearly intentionally left out every detail since you couldn't think of an actual half decent example. still, i expected more than "HURRR i dunno, a SWEEPER??"
so let me get this straight.
1. i'm playing a deck that can power out UU counterspells.
2. i have enough mana to use force of time AND another counterspell. meaning i must have like 1UUUU at my disposal.
3. i apparently, have A LOT of creatures! ok i guess this is that famous mono blue control super aggro deck. i wonder what creatures i even have in play right now? hmm its becoming more clear why you left out every possible detail.
4. the opponent wraths! well how else are you going to stop the famous mono blue control super aggro deck.
5. i tap for UU to counter, leaving 1UU up. not suspicious at all!!
6. the opponent.. decides skip his next turn just to let the wrath resolve! now CLEARLY we can't assume that he's dead on board if the wrath fails because an example using force of time when you WIN NO MATTER WHAT THE OPPONENT CHOOSES is clearly a terrible example to use as an argument to why the card is too good!
7. meaning the opponent ISNT in desparate need of a wrath to resolve, but he time walks himself anyway.
8. knowing you have extra counter mana up.
9. knowing that another counter is possible, if not likely, given that you JUST PLAYED A COUNTERSPELL.
wow you really didn't think that through, did you?
care to try again? put in an actual game state and board position this time please. don't forget to consider what your deck is actually playing!
I figured the only blue aggro deck I could think of that is actually any good would be Legacy Merfolk. I guess Fae works too, but I had my Leg Merfolk next to me so....
AEther Vial with three counters in play , Island, Tundra, Island, Wanderwine Hub in play. For creatures I have the new 2/1 Merfolk with First Strike and Lifelink. A Cosi Trickster with two +1/+1 counters from fetchlands and a Lord of Atlantis. My opponent has Tundra Island Volcanic Island, and Counterbalance in play. He played a Brainstorm this game. I swing in for 9, after already dealing 8 from the last turn and fetches. Taking him to 3.
He untaps and casts Firespout without playing a land. If I counter this spell I win the game. So I have two counters in hand, a Daze and Relax. Which do I play?
Daze will win me the game, while Relax give my opponent an option, but I can cast both so whatever. I'll Relax first using your strategy. For this hypothetical he has a land on the top of his library for Counterbalance.
My opponent skips his next turn. So he fell for it. I Daze and win the game.....except he had a Force of Will and countered my Daze. Now I have to come back with no dudes and no cards. What if that Relax was, say a Mana Leak or Another Lord, or Etc? I probably would have won.
If he has to choose the give you a turn option, then he was going to lose anyway. If you had a hard counter in that spot you would just win. Why need an extra turn?
If your playing against a good opponent, they will always choose the option that gives them a better chance to win the game. Nearly every card that gives your opponent choices is bad for that reason.
Force of Time on the other hand is sick. With an Island restriction, and in the same game state instead of Relax, things would get interesting.
I get to keep my team, but my opponent gets two turns to find an answer. Well done! I really like the allusion to Time Warp/Force of will as well.
Refer to post 3 in this thread. This problem has already been addressed.
I have thought about this possibility, but don't know enough about the respective formats to know or even guess how much influence a Pact 5-8 would have in them.
Obviously Force of Time seems like a better choice than Force of Will in those situations, because the card disadvantage on FoW is immediate while the card disadvantage of FoT is delayed (to a moment after your victory).
So which format would be affected worst by the card?
So assuming Pharmalade is costing the card correctly (which probably is about right), you invest :3mana::symu::symu::symu: and one card to get the two effects with certainity.
Now if you use Relax and Counterspell (chosen because other spells like Mana Leak etc. might not work in every situation) to get the same effects for :symu::symu::symu::symu: and two cards without certainity in situations you are not already winning.
A cantrip costed about :sym2u:. If you consider this cost for the card advantage then the equation actually seems to work out.
What about that?
If your opponent is only going to use the turn-skip option whenever they are about to lose, how is "opponent loses or skips a turn" not strictly worse than "opponent loses, period"?
Thanks.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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No, I really don't. I'm not doing the brain work for you. Find someone else to hold your hand through this.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.
got it, you couldn't think of a real example.
infiltrator - sorry for neme's diversion. as you can see, everyone else agrees that relax is strictly worse than counterspell, barring an impossibly bad opponent. the problem is, while its strictly worse than counterspell, its almost the exact same power level since the choices are both so good for you. wizards probably wouldn't print it in today's world since they're trying to steer away from giving control such powerful tools.
at 1UU, however, its definitely fine, since cancel exists.
Forbid was the center of a tournament deck, and it was a counter that basically cost two cards and three mana. I mean, sure it's a different beast when the two cards you need have to be specific cards, but it's still fairly doable. So a card like this, which can be comboed easily with any hard counter, just seems to be too little at two mana. It's one of those rare cards where two mana is too little but then three mana seems almost too much, and then there's nothing you can put in the middle to balance it out.
The fact is, you can play this card and get the effect you want. You can play it on a spell that you need countered but won't break them to get it countered, then it is a counterspell. You can play it on a card you know they will want to save to get the extra turn effect. And if someone can't think about how to do this, life is gonna kick them in the ass hard when it makes them think about things that actually matter in life, and they're gonna fail on their ass when they can't.
Colourless mana comes FIRST! Try actually looking at a Magic card some time. It is NOT UU3, it's 3UU. What game are you making cards for?
I can no longer tell people to check their card names, because I am made of suck and fail.