R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn it loses flying until the end of the turn and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying. Play this ability only during combat.
I saw that and bumped the cost up to 4RR because it's kinda funny - the higher he jumps It's a skill test bit - here's a card with a reason to give redundant flying - the landing isn't redundant.
Edit: What if he damages himself on landing! (remove the "each other" creature bit) - so if you pump him 4 or more times you lose him. Also if you pump him twice and then they shock him you've lost him on landing.
Edit: Fixed the card so it works cleanly with other means of gaining flying - the ability now causes it to gain flying until the end of turn and lose flying until the end of turn on the "At end of turn" trigger. So if you play the ability and it has flying from another source it still lands and shakes the table, then starts flying from that source next turn. The lengthier wording also blocks Waylay-esque tricks.
EDIT: The perfect art for this card would be a goblin in a giant shadow with this 'oh crap' look on his face - sorta like a red Dandan.
You can't have it deal damage after the cleanup step, where it loses flying under it's current wording.
I guess that's why I put an at the end of turn trigger in there. Here it is again, bolded so you can spot it...
R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn it loses flying until the end of the turn and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying (Including itself).
EDIT: Note, This still needs to be corrected - there's the weirdness of activating this during the end step having it lose flying then deal damage on the next turn. The simplest fix to stop this weirdness is a play restriction - say to just combat where it should be played (same restriction Waylay got).
R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn it loses flying until the end of the turn and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying (Including itself). Play this ability only during combat.
Here's my ideal version of the ability, along with why it won't work.
Whenever ~ looses flying, it deals 1 damage to each creature without flying. R: ~ gains flying until end of turn.
The problem here is that you deal damage during the cleanup, which is when damage is removed. Am I right?
Triggered abilities are tricky indeed. The best way to think of how they work is that when the trigger condition is met the ability goes to a holding pen in active player, not active player order and stays there until the next time a player receives priority.
If an ability triggers during cleanup it will wait until the next time a player receives priority - the start of the next turn's upkeep - which is very unintuitive.
I'll break down the ability of Jumping giant step by step and explain why that is the wording to use:
R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn.
Straight forward enough. Yes it can be played multiple times, but multiple flies are redundant. But of course we aren't done yet. Note that the flying granted by this ability only lasts until the end of the turn - hence the clause here. The odd, odd thing about this card is the delayed trigger half of this ability is going to remove flying anyway, but this clause is included in case someone decided to get cute and stifle the triggered effect. If for whatever reason that triggered effect can't occur we still want to lose flying during cleanup so the clause is here.
At the end of the turn it loses flying ...
Now the delayed triggered effect part of the ability - triggered by the start of the end step. This avoids the dealing of damage during cleanup.
... until the end of the turn ...
There are many, many other ways this card could get flying other than it's own ability. Many of these abilities are continuous, but there are some pretty serious memory issues to be had if this clause isn't included. If for example wonder is in the graveyard tracking it is easier to forget about the giant jumping down on the field then to remember he's permantly grounded from the ability being played 6 turns ago.
So we lose flying no matter how we got it from whatever source with this phrase, but only until the end of turn. At that point 'loses flying' is removed, but so is the 'gains flying' part of this ability. This allows this ability to function without getting confused with any other sources of flight the Giant may have.
... and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying.
Now that the giant doesn't fly he's subject to the damage he's dealing, which puts a limit to how many times you pump him - unless you do want to pop him a 'la dragon whelp
... Play this ability only during combat.
If the ability is played during the end step that at the end trigger will stick around and strike next turn. This is again unintuitive and messy - and there's no real reason to allow it.
So if the giant is already flying thanks to an enchantment his ability becomes a dive-bomber switch, which is still kinda cool from a flavor perspective. But the main idea is he jumps then lands with a ground shattering KATHUMP!!
Well it's been done before so why not utilize the "Until end of combat" clause.
Jumping Giant - 4RR
Creature - Giant Warrior
:symr:: Jumping Giant gains Flying until end of combat. Play this ability only during the combat phase and only once per turn.
When Jumping Giant loses flying it deals 1 damage to each creature without flying. It's just a little airborne. It's still good, it's still good!
4/4
My other suggestion for flavor text was "Wheeeeeeeee! Aw. Wheeeeeeeeee! Aw."
"Thurgor plucked two great redwoods. He then reached into the sea and wrestled forth a great serpent. He tied the head to one tree, and the tail to another, and skipped off into the sunset. And that's where sinkholes came from."
-Reglin creation myth.
The thought of a giant with a jumprope makes me laugh.
Well it's been done before so why not utilize the "Until end of combat" clause.
Jumping Giant - 4RR
Creature - Giant Warrior
:symr:: Jumping Giant gains Flying until end of combat. Play this ability only during the combat phase and only once per turn.
When Jumping Giant loses flying it deals 1 damage to each creature without flying. It's just a little airborne. It's still good, it's still good!
4/4
My other suggestion for flavor text was "Wheeeeeeeee! Aw. Wheeeeeeeeee! Aw."
Your wording again fails to allow the creature to deal varying amounts of damage, and the giant doesn't "land" if he has flying from another source.
A lot of this is being based on an incorrect assertion:
If an ability triggers during cleanup it will wait until the next time a player receives priority - the start of the next turn's upkeep - which is very unintuitive.
The rules don't actually state this. This is the order of events in the cleanup step:
314.1. If the active player’s hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce the hand size to that number (this game action doesn’t use the stack).
314.2. After discarding, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage is removed from permanents and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end (this game action doesn’t use the stack).
314.3. If the conditions for any state-based effects exist or if any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack, the active player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass, another cleanup step begins. Otherwise, no player receives priority and the step ends.
Abilities that triggered from "until end of turn" effects ending will go on the stack in the same cleanup step.
There isn't really anything wrong with dealing damage during the cleanup step; it happens all the time when somebody's playing Megrim and his opponent tries to end the turn with more than 7 cards in hand. The rules account for it just fine and there's no need to go into unusual wordings to avoid it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
A lot of this is being based on an incorrect assertion:
The rules don't actually state this. This is the order of events in the cleanup step:
Abilities that triggered from "until end of turn" effects ending will go on the stack in the same cleanup step.
There isn't really anything wrong with dealing damage during the cleanup step; it happens all the time when somebody's playing Megrim and his opponent tries to end the turn with more than 7 cards in hand. The rules account for it just fine and there's no need to go into unusual wordings to avoid it.
True. Note though that megrim damages players, who remember the damage they've taken. creatures would keep "forgetting" the damage - so it's kinda pointless to damage a creature during cleanup and potentially confusing.
True. Note though that megrim damages players, who remember the damage they've taken. creatures would keep "forgetting" the damage - so it's kinda pointless to damage a creature during cleanup and potentially confusing.
It's only pointless in that the damage before the clean-up step would be forgotten. The damage from giant triggers would add up for some use. Actuallly the oddness about not caring about the turn is worth printing it to trigger at end of combat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The guy who found the new art for shock and other 10th edition cards on the wizards site.
Butcher of Words.
True. Note though that megrim damages players, who remember the damage they've taken. creatures would keep "forgetting" the damage - so it's kinda pointless to damage a creature during cleanup and potentially confusing.
It's only pointless if the damage isn't lethal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Jumping Giant
4RR
Creature - Giant Warrior
4/4
R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn it loses flying until the end of the turn and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying. Play this ability only during combat.
Edit: What if he damages himself on landing! (remove the "each other" creature bit) - so if you pump him 4 or more times you lose him. Also if you pump him twice and then they shock him you've lost him on landing.
Edit: Fixed the card so it works cleanly with other means of gaining flying - the ability now causes it to gain flying until the end of turn and lose flying until the end of turn on the "At end of turn" trigger. So if you play the ability and it has flying from another source it still lands and shakes the table, then starts flying from that source next turn. The lengthier wording also blocks Waylay-esque tricks.
EDIT: The perfect art for this card would be a goblin in a giant shadow with this 'oh crap' look on his face - sorta like a red Dandan.
Butcher of Words.
Made by Spiderboy4
I guess that's why I put an at the end of turn trigger in there. Here it is again, bolded so you can spot it...
R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn it loses flying until the end of the turn and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying (Including itself).
EDIT: Note, This still needs to be corrected - there's the weirdness of activating this during the end step having it lose flying then deal damage on the next turn. The simplest fix to stop this weirdness is a play restriction - say to just combat where it should be played (same restriction Waylay got).
R: Jumping Giant gains flying until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn it loses flying until the end of the turn and deals 1 damage to each creature without flying (Including itself). Play this ability only during combat.
The giant sailed higher and higher, as Grok said, "Did the giant species ever develop wings or-. As the giant hit the ground.
Butcher of Words.
Made by Spiderboy4
SZJ pic by Fishy!
That's a functional change. The card deals damage to non flyers, because the landing is so thunderous it causes a tremor effect
Whenever ~ looses flying, it deals 1 damage to each creature without flying.
R: ~ gains flying until end of turn.
The problem here is that you deal damage during the cleanup, which is when damage is removed. Am I right?
Triggered abilities are tricky indeed. The best way to think of how they work is that when the trigger condition is met the ability goes to a holding pen in active player, not active player order and stays there until the next time a player receives priority.
If an ability triggers during cleanup it will wait until the next time a player receives priority - the start of the next turn's upkeep - which is very unintuitive.
I'll break down the ability of Jumping giant step by step and explain why that is the wording to use:
Straight forward enough. Yes it can be played multiple times, but multiple flies are redundant. But of course we aren't done yet. Note that the flying granted by this ability only lasts until the end of the turn - hence the clause here. The odd, odd thing about this card is the delayed trigger half of this ability is going to remove flying anyway, but this clause is included in case someone decided to get cute and stifle the triggered effect. If for whatever reason that triggered effect can't occur we still want to lose flying during cleanup so the clause is here.
Now the delayed triggered effect part of the ability - triggered by the start of the end step. This avoids the dealing of damage during cleanup.
There are many, many other ways this card could get flying other than it's own ability. Many of these abilities are continuous, but there are some pretty serious memory issues to be had if this clause isn't included. If for example wonder is in the graveyard tracking it is easier to forget about the giant jumping down on the field then to remember he's permantly grounded from the ability being played 6 turns ago.
So we lose flying no matter how we got it from whatever source with this phrase, but only until the end of turn. At that point 'loses flying' is removed, but so is the 'gains flying' part of this ability. This allows this ability to function without getting confused with any other sources of flight the Giant may have.
Now that the giant doesn't fly he's subject to the damage he's dealing, which puts a limit to how many times you pump him - unless you do want to pop him a 'la dragon whelp
If the ability is played during the end step that at the end trigger will stick around and strike next turn. This is again unintuitive and messy - and there's no real reason to allow it.
So if the giant is already flying thanks to an enchantment his ability becomes a dive-bomber switch, which is still kinda cool from a flavor perspective. But the main idea is he jumps then lands with a ground shattering KATHUMP!!
Jumping Giant - 4RR
Creature - Giant Warrior
:symr:: Jumping Giant gains Flying until end of combat. Play this ability only during the combat phase and only once per turn.
When Jumping Giant loses flying it deals 1 damage to each creature without flying.
It's just a little airborne. It's still good, it's still good!
4/4
My other suggestion for flavor text was "Wheeeeeeeee! Aw. Wheeeeeeeeee! Aw."
-Reglin creation myth.
The thought of a giant with a jumprope makes me laugh.
-Pharmalade.
Banner by Topher!
Your wording again fails to allow the creature to deal varying amounts of damage, and the giant doesn't "land" if he has flying from another source.
The rules don't actually state this. This is the order of events in the cleanup step:
Abilities that triggered from "until end of turn" effects ending will go on the stack in the same cleanup step.
There isn't really anything wrong with dealing damage during the cleanup step; it happens all the time when somebody's playing Megrim and his opponent tries to end the turn with more than 7 cards in hand. The rules account for it just fine and there's no need to go into unusual wordings to avoid it.
Then change it. I was just showing you it's possible to do something "Until end of combat"
True. Note though that megrim damages players, who remember the damage they've taken. creatures would keep "forgetting" the damage - so it's kinda pointless to damage a creature during cleanup and potentially confusing.
It's only pointless in that the damage before the clean-up step would be forgotten. The damage from giant triggers would add up for some use. Actuallly the oddness about not caring about the turn is worth printing it to trigger at end of combat.
Butcher of Words.
Made by Spiderboy4
It's only pointless if the damage isn't lethal.