Special thanks to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the Banner.
I: History
Ever since the printing of snapcaster mage, BUG control has became an viable deck once again. This deck has evolved from the days of when Team America had it's finger print on the format to the dominate days of BUG Landstill with the printing of Jace, the mindsculptor. Then it's not until just recent where BUG control became it's own identity. At first, this deck had the gears to play full fledged aggro with tarmogoyfs, snapcasters, and dark confidants while then it could suddenly switch gears to play full fledged control. The deck had the powerful plainswalker like Jace to end late games while the deck featured pernicious deed to take control of the board similar to BUG landstill. Then after that installment this deck changed yet again to becoming more of a control deck and less of an aggro deck by cutting majority of the creatures of previous builds while adding more control cards like innocent blood. Which is what the deck is at right now.
II: Why play this deck over blue based stoneblade?
Even though BUG control doesn't have the capabilities to play aggro like stoneblade can this deck definitely has the ability to control matchups much better then stoneblade since it's much more focused on being an control deck compared to being an aggro-control deck especially if playing control is your thing.
BUG control also has the definite ability to destroy the other top decks with it's sheer card advantage and other control elements to help grind out matches for the win. Sure, there are many decision trees with this deck but it's actually straight forward. As in you have to make sure you can get to the late game against any deck with the tools this deck has and then win with manlands and/or planeswalkers.
III: Primer Decklist
I'll use Nicholas Spagnolo's BUG list as a template for this primer that he got second place with at the most recent SCG Invitational tournament.
Mishra's Factory: One of the most used win conditions for board control decks such as this BUG deck. The manland can't be killed by your own mass removal and an 2/2 creature that can potentially become bigger with another factory in play can definitely add up damage on your opponent especially in this deck that loves to see an empty battlefield.
Creeping Tar pit: Another great win condition much like factory but can be more devastating since it's a bit bigger that is also unblockable too.
Spell Pierce: Always a solid soft counterspell that can counter anything that your most worry about from opposing planeswalkers to possibly choke or an Green Sun zenith.
Jace, the mindsculptor: I don't think I need to explain much of Jace other then that he is planeswalker that fills multiple controlling roles for you that just helps you win games.
Lilliana of the veil: Another very solid planeswalker. She acts as a removal spell while she can also disrupt your opponent which is just one sided with the help of loam and spells that can just draw you cards like Jace and brainstorm.
Pernicious Deed: A great, all around board sweeper that can remove almost anything that your worried about from Choke to nimble mongoose. Considering, keeping the opposing side of the board clean is definitely something this deck wants to see to make maximize.
Innocent Blood: One black to make your opponent sac any creature on the battlefield is just powerful in this deck and so this deck has some legitimate first turn plays, although, casting this in the mid to late game can be relevant too.
Brainstorm: The best card in the deck. Casting this card correctly in largely dictate on how you will play out your many matches in tournaments. Brainstorm is also just a utility spell that lets you draw whatever you need to win as well.
Counterspell: I think it's still the best hard counter in the format. Counterspell has a huge efficiency rating in the mid to late game but also it can be very strong on turn 2 as well.
Darkblast: Awesome at killing mother of runes, noble hierarchs, dark confidants, and other utility creatures that can be devastating in the long run. You can also recycle Darkblast and use it again and again.
Force of will: Good when your tapped out and want to counter something significant. Legacy players know how useful Force of will and it's draw back is so I don't think I need to explain further.
Ghastly Demise: It's no swords to plowshares but still a pretty solid spot removal spell against a lot of creatures that are played.
Spell snare: There are a ton of decks that still have important cards that cost two mana and so spell snare is still relevant.
Nights Souls of Betrayal: An excellent enchantment that can kill weenie creatures that also stay in play. Amazing against maverick and other decks that run tiny creatures.
Inquistion of Koziliek: There are many decks that have spells that cost 0 to 3 and so Inquisition is very strong to cast.
Life from the Loam: This sorcery is very powerful and loam ensures your land drops since it recurs fetchlands and also lets you recover from wasteland + stifle. It's also great at recurring your own wastelands and/or manlands to finish games by attacking and/or disabling nonbasic lands.
Maelstrom Pulse: This is a catch-all answer to problematic non-land permanents and so it's like a Pernicious Deed but a spot removal version of it instead.
Ponder: Great card filter spell that digs for what you need in your deck and sets up your next couple of draws.
Flusterstorm: Pretty much for any type of storm combo deck or a deck that casts multiple spells in a single turn. Flusterstorm can also be really good in stopping counterspell wars.
Nihil Spellbomb: Usually for Graveyard based decks.
Dread of Night: Amazing against maverick since those decks run a bunch of small white creatures. You can also pair it with Darkblast or the other Night enchantment to remove a white creature that's a bit bigger then a 1/1.
Blue Elemental Blast: Blue blast is relevant against decks with several or more red cards in them.
Diabolic Edict: An additional removal spell against any creature deck.
Vendillion Clique: Great card against both control and storm combo. Also has other utility as well since it replaces an unwanted card in your hand or she gives you information by looking at your opponent's hand and having a choice to take a card or not.
Perish: Obviously very good mass removal spell against any creature deck that runs several or more green creatures in them.
Raven's Crime: Another card that can be very effective against control decks while it also can serve a mild purpose against decks like storm combo but it wouldn't be good against a deck that likes to discard a lot like Dredge.
Scavenging Ooze: Can be considered to be another anti-graveyard card that can also be used as a win condition since Ooze is a creature that can also become bigger and gain you life against the aggressive creature decks like Threshold.
V: Matchup Analysis:
Esper Stoneblade (With Lingering Souls): I'd say this matchup is somewhat in the stoneblade's favor preboard but postboard it definitely gets better with Raven's crime, spell pierce, v. clique, and dread of night which is your trump card against their seemingly endless spirit tokens. You should think when to cast your brainstorms at the best time and think it through on what to counter and what not to counter. Once again wasteland, manlands and loam can definitely do their work in this matchup. This matchup could definitely be close but it's definitely possible to win against Esper stoneblade with BUG Control.
GW Maverick: BUG control definitely has all the tools to beat GW maverick and it only gets better after sideboarding. You have all sorts of countermagic and removal to get ahead quickly and so they either help you stabalize and/or maintain control of the game. After you have achieved this you can start attacking with manlands and resolving an Jace to win the game. You have a huge advantage when you can just play Jace and then next turn untap your lands with Jace in play. Postboard, Dread of Night is very good against maverick. Killing all of the 2 toughness or less creatures with both Night enchantments is backbreaking against Maverick. Not to mention, both perish and spell pierce definitely have their roles in this matchup. Just watchout for Choke though.
Canadian Threshold/RUG Tempo Thresh: Here is another matchup where your definitely favored in. Again, you have so much removal in this deck that being able to live long enough past turn 3 or 4 seems pretty good for you. Jace maybe less apparent in this matchup but he still can be relevant if you move up his loyalty counters first. Manlands along with Loam and wasteland is definitely your best friend against a deck with burn spells, stifles, and wastelands.
Dredge: Definitely one of your hardest matchups in the tournament. You should definitely try to counter their combo outlet spells/creatures but again Dredge is very hard to interact with. Postboard, nihil spellbomb is pretty decent against Dredge if you activate the bomb just right but be careful as Dredge player can play around one hit wonder graveyard hate.
Bant: Once again another decent matchup. I would play this matchup similar to how you would play against GW maverick except with countermagic also. Although, not all Bant builds run countermagic. This deck has a bunch of different kinds of removal and counterspells that you can disrupt Bant in different ways to gain a sheer amount of advantage. Both Jace and Lilianna seems really good against this matchup. Postboard the matchup gets even better with clique, perish, spell pierce and edict. Just watch out for their own plainswalkers and changing from being a control player to a beat down player with manlands can definitely be key to taking this match.
Punishing Maverick: Potentially a harder matchup then straight GW Maverick. Mostly because of punishing fire and their ability to tutor for Grove of the Burn willows with Knight of the Reliquary, of course, there is a chance they can just topdeck it as well. Punishing Fire can be a significant problem since it's a recurring win condition against you at their disposal and when they game goes long Punishing Fire + Burn willows can be pretty challenging to play against since the combo is just amazingly good in attrition wars. Your only hope really is to draw into both loam and wasteland right away to kill their Burn willows before it gets out of hand. Aside from the Punishing fire/willows combo just play the matchup like you would play against the straight GW lists.
Burn: Another very hard matchup that can also be just impossible. You will have to hope that they don't draw into that many price of progresses and other burn spells that they can cast for free like fireblast. Postboard it gets better with blue blast and Scavenging ooze if you manage to find a creature to remove from the graveyard but you still will need all of the help that you can get in this match.
Nic Fit: This matchup can be difficult if they manage to wreck your hand with cabal therapy effects. Veteran Explorer can often be bad for you unless you play with more basic lands and so if Veteran dies Nic Fit gets to ramp into a ton more lands then you do so that is something to make note. Watch out for their win conditions such as grave titan and maelstrom pulses on your planeswalkers and you should be fine. Even if this matchup can be difficult it's still definitely winnable. Counterspell just happens to be one of the best cards in this matchup since it's a hard counter that can counter the most critical spells(e.g. Late game bombs and etc.) that Nic Fit plays.
Reanimator: A solid matchup for BUG Control. You play with a bunch of edict effects to make all of their creatures that they reanimate negligible. Even though your potentially making them discard a huge creature with a resolved Lilianna. She is still relevant since she can force the reanimator opponent to sac their large creature that they just reanimated. While, Inquisition can force the reanimator pilot to discard their best card which could be a reanimate spell, combo outlet spell or even a brainstorm. As for postboard, the matchup definitely gets better with graveyard hate to force them to win with Show and tell while also another spell pierce and another edict effect spell in the board helps too.
Storm Combo (ANT/TES): I feel ANT(Ad Nauseam Tendrils) is an easier deck to win against the TES. TES has more options available to it as far as comboing off goes. Obviously, you want to try to get a Force of will in your opening hand but if your on the play, a spell pierce in your opener is decent against both decks since you can stop them from going off on the first turn. I most likely wouldn't counter their first spell, try to wait to counter something more critical like that infernal tutor or that one ritual that will lead them from casting a Ad Nauseam. Although, against TES it gets to be much more tricky. Sometimes, countering a burning wish is the right play but other times countering that ritual is. Play it by ear and see how your opponent plays his/her cards in sequence to see which spell you want to disrupt the most. Also, having a brainstorm is definitely very strong on the play against storm combo since you can basically hide your strongest cards from a discard spell from them. There is no cut and dry strategy to beat Storm combo you will just have to use your best judgement into what is the best spell to counter and etc. Postboard, definitely gets better since you have flusterstorm, v. clique, and another spell pierce plus blue elemental blast for burning wish or a red ritual from the hands of a TES player.
it has been testing very, very well. i know singleton tundra for cop:r is sketchy, but it brings up the burn matchup to like 50% or more, whereas it would normally just be 10% or something stupid. chill just doesn't cut it.
as far as the 2nd place list, i don't really like it. night of soul's betrayal doesn't seem that great for 4 mana. i'm not a fan of snapcaster or ooze in the 75 either. nor do i like the non-typical BUG control cards such as IoK or ponder. i despise the tar pit; i used to run one for a long time but it just wasn't that great. most of the time unblockable was a useless ability, and it comes into play tapped as well as 3 to activate; terrible blocker too. factory is just better.
kinda diggin' the 1-of pulse though, i might try that out.
EDIT: nice work on the primer, kevin. as far as MUs go, i feel like esper and UW blade are in our favor like 55%. burn is bad, as i said. merfolk, goblins, zoo etc. are all pretty good. team america feels like 55-60% their favor.
it has been testing very, very well. i know singleton tundra for cop:r is sketchy, but it brings up the burn matchup to like 50% or more, whereas it would normally just be 10% or something stupid. chill just doesn't cut it.
i'm considering making the following changes however:
-1 mana leak
+1 spell pierce
and
-1 mishra's factory or -1 tropical island
+1 verdant catacombs
i've been trying these changes for the last couple matches (with trop gone over factory) and it seems alright, but i haven't tested enough to be sure. i think i might try cutting the factory and adding back the trop.
as far as the 2nd place list, i don't really like it. night of soul's betrayal doesn't seem that great for 4 mana. i'm not a fan of snapcaster or ooze in the 75 either. nor do i like the non-typical BUG control cards such as IoK or ponder. i despise the tar pit; i used to run one for a long time but it just wasn't that great. most of the time unblockable was a useless ability, and it comes into play tapped as well as 3 to activate; terrible blocker too. factory is just better.
kinda diggin' the 1-of pulse though, i might try that out.
EDIT: nice work on the primer, kevin. as far as MUs go, i feel like esper and UW blade are in our favor like 55%. burn is bad, as i said. merfolk, goblins, zoo etc. are all pretty good. team america feels like 55-60% their favor.
I definitely like your list and your counterspell configuration seems really good because of how versatile and flexible it is. Also, a playset of Jaces and 3 Liliannas gets a nod from me.
As for BUG control replacing BUG Landstill, yeah I think it's definitely coming to that. Standstill has not been the same card ever since both Delver and snapcaster was introduced to Legacy. In addition, the banning of mental misstep also didn't help standstill either.
I am also glad you like the primer and I am still working on it too.
I definitely like your list and your counterspell configuration seems really good because of how versatile and flexible it is. Also, a playset of Jaces and 3 Liliannas gets a nod from me.
As for BUG control replacing BUG Landstill, yeah I think it's definitely coming to that. Standstill has not been the same card ever since both Delver and snapcaster was introduced to Legacy. In addition, the banning of mental misstep also didn't help standstill either.
I am also glad you like the primer and I am still working on it too.
yah, i definitely agree with everything written here. you definitely know your legacy.
as for the primer, one quick suggestion: maybe spice it up with some sort of pic? either a banner or like 3-4 key cards spread across the top would look pretty good imo. at least for me, pics make threads more attractive and interesting, rather than bland and texty. banners especially look awesome. i'd be happy to get one for you from the sig/avy people; i have an idea of what it could look like.
Sure, I agree, a banner seems great for this thread. I'll let you come up with a banner for this and then I'll put it in the opening post or have a mod help me with that.
Oh and I have a question for your list. I was wondering if you tried creeping tar pit out in your list? I personally think it's an amazing manland, although, it does come into play tapped which is a turn off. However, it does add two colors when it taps for mana and unlike islands it does untap when there is a choke in play. Perhaps, in hindsight it's advantages outweighs it's drawbacks. *Shrugs*
Edit: Oh oops, I missed the part where you mention about tarpit in one of your previous posts, my bad.
Edit 2: On another note, I do kind of want to try out Worm Harvest with loam to see how worthless/stupid it maybe but my fun for experimenting with off the wall card choices will always be here inside of me.
I also agree on snapcaster, I mean yeah it's pretty good in this deck but not exactly needed and yeah the night of souls' betrayal is definitely pretty random but I am sure there was some merit behind that. Since it could be just that random 1 card utility tech card that is just awesome in certain critical situations while not very useful at all in others.
creeping tar pit is alright, but i'm not a fan. i feel the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. first, if a BUGC list is built right, its colors should be easy to come by. the tar pit produce blue and black is nice, and can save you in some situations, but it is very rare. second, unblockable can be great in certain situations as well, but i tend to find that if i'm ever in one of those situations, i'd much rather be doing something else with my mana. third, etb tapped is just awful, especially when you have a mana-tight hand and also have a snare or pierce. also, 3 mana to activate is painful. even when i get ahead, i usually find myself wanting to keep a bit of my mana open for counterspells, and if you only have like 4-5 mana, keeping mana open while swinging with tar pit is just impossible. with factory, you don't have many of these problems. lastly, one of the most important functions of manlands + ltfl for BUGC is blocking. factory is a couple zillion times better at that than pit. anyways, it has potential, and is awesome in some situations and metas, but i'm not a fan.
i was thinking about worm harvest as well. same with nether spirit. in the end, though, i felt that those go in a deck more focused on lftl than classic BUG control, especially worm harvest. but i'm sure a different version can be made to harness the power of cards such as these... something like the lands deck with counterspells, or somewhere in between the two extremes.
snapcaster is alright, but i don't like that he dies to our own innocent bloods and deeds. i'd rather be playing something else.
keep up the good work on the primer! btw, what is your current list, if you have one?
Sorry, I don't have a current decklist. I have just been playing matches with the second place list but your deck seems like a list I want to try out as well. As your list is pretty good since it can attack a serious metagame handily.
I thought about making a BUG control deck with cunning wish to see how that pans out. I am not expecting alot from cunning wish in here so I am not sure I'll build a BUG deck with wishes in it or not. I might try it anyway though.
As for win conditions, yeah, it seems that Jace, lilianna, and mishra's factories are plenty of win conditions for BUG Control.
Ok, well if you try mine, you might go with -1 mana leak, -1 factory for +1 pierce, +1 verdant catacombs. I've only played a couple matches with the updated list, but I fell it's probably better. Mana leak felt like too much at 4 slots, and pierce is pretty amazing. Wasteland was also pretty annoying to play against, and I don't think i need 4 factories anyways.
And I'll get back to you as soon as I have the banner
Yeah, that makes sense, 4 mana leaks does seem a bit much. So it does make sense to cut them for something else useful.
As for the banner, do you think you can tell a moderator to put it in the opening post whenever you have one? I usually don't have that much time on the weekdays so I am not always on here. You definitely have my permission to add the banner to the opening post.
By clicking "quote" i can have access to your primer. I can add the banner in myself, and then PM you the product, and you can replace what's currently the OP with what i give you, whenever you have time. I can also add information to it in this way, but i'll always be sure to tell you what i added/changed in the PM, so you can veto it at will. I do have some experience with primers; a good example is modern D+T, which you can find a direct link to in my signature. Anyways, I'd be happy to help you out on this; BUG Control is currently my favorite legacy deck (and i also personally feel it's the best in the current metagame).
Yeah, I strongly agree, BUG control definitely has what it takes to be a true contender in this format. I also feel it's the strongest control deck in the format since it's pretty focused on being a straight control deck.
Oh and I also added your decklist to the opening post just because your the first one to post in this thread. It's toward the bottom of the post.
Brilliant idea to make a thread for this deck. Wish I thought of that, we needed one.
Liliana is quockly becoming obviously the second best PW ever, so any deck that plays her and JTMS gotta be good
I'm suprised by the lack of discard, which would vastly improve your MU vs Burn.
this deck has been developing for quite some time in the BUGstill thread, and the overall idea was discard wasn't that great. some lists had it, but i think most lists don't because we have counters and mass removal that can take almost anything down that would otherwise be discarded.
i run 3 seize and 3 clique in the SB, as many lists do, but thats mostly just for combo or whatever deck clique might be cool against.
Brilliant idea to make a thread for this deck. Wish I thought of that, we needed one.
Liliana is quockly becoming obviously the second best PW ever, so any deck that plays her and JTMS gotta be good
I'm suprised by the lack of discard, which would vastly improve your MU vs Burn.
Oh thanks, it's definitely fun to write a primer on a deck that I know well.
I haven't really tested against burn that much with this deck( I mostly have been playing against Blue based Stoneblade, RUG Threshold, and Maverick with it.) but I could see your point on inquisition of koz being at least fairly relevant against burn since you can take price of progress or something else.
I also definitely agree that Liliana and Jace together make an excellent tag team.
this deck has been developing for quite some time in the BUGstill thread, and the overall idea was discard wasn't that great. some lists had it, but i think most lists don't because we have counters and mass removal that can take almost anything down that would otherwise be discarded.
i run 3 seize and 3 clique in the SB, as many lists do, but thats mostly just for combo or whatever deck clique might be cool against.
Yeah, I haven't been too crazy about playing discard in BUG control but Raggedjoe does have a point with discard being pretty good but yeah there is definitely a good amount of debate of how much discard you should play with x number of countermagic in the deck as well. With that being said, I do like discard quite a bit against both UW(x)/Esper Stoneblade and Maverick though.
I also didn't know that there was some talk of BUG control in the BUGstill thread which was also a thread started by me. That's interesting.
Edit: As for V. Clique, I actually tend to board her in against almost anything especially if I want another additional threat and/or to draw an extra card to replace a unwanted card in my hand.
Love this deck. So much fun to play and its good against quite a lot.
I play Spagnolo's list on Cockatrice. Night of the Soul's Betrayal is sick with Dark Blast and post-board Dread of Night for Maverick and DnT. I have to say though, I prefer Extirpate or Surgical Extraction over Nihil Spellbomb.
What are your thoughts on Sensei's Divining Top? Its awesome with your Dredgers and fetches and opens up the potential for post-board Counterbalance to combat Burn and Storm combo. Burn is DTB right now so I'd imagine that CB/Top would be a good thing to run in the board. 2 Top could easily replace the Ponders. Also, Top is better than a single cantrip in the control and aggro control mirrors as sometimes you end up in topdeck mode without a hand because you've gotten into a counter war and killed all the opponent's creatures.
Also, I very much enjoyed the Primer (well done sir) but was curious to see that Storm combo is not listed in the matchups.
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Thanks, Glad you like the primer. To be honest, I almost forgot about adding the storm combo matchup but I will sometime soon whenever I get the time again. Thanks for reminding me.
As for Sensei's top being in here, I actually did think about running at least 1 in the main maybe two instead of maybe ponder. Ponder, only really has one dimensional value in this deck since it's only used to dig for either more lands or finding an answer or even finding that win condition to seal the deal. While ponder is most likely a more then one dimensional card in a deck like Can Thresh since you have delvers to transform or to build up threshold. While, sure Sensei's top does the samething as ponder but it's a constant filter card engine. So I totally agree with you, I think sensei's top would help make this deck more consistent and resilient. I also like the idea of counterbalance in the board too.
Anyway, I hope this deck top 8's multiple times later today in the SCG Legacy open.
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Well first happy Easter. Concerning bug I've assembled it in cardboard except one bayou and I'd prefer two. Ill work on that. The one thing that really hurts me aside from wasteland is lack of actual card drawing. I can run out of cards dealing with threats and using counters. Si I added 4 ancestral visions. I know the reasons against but truth be told it has come through. It can have a little dissynergy with a counter heavy build but um more removal based. My only counters are force of will, counterspell and spell snare. I just think the deck needs some actual cardboard draw power from playtesting. Especially decks like maverick which can slow roll threats. Even in general virtual card advantage and jacestorming isn't enough. I'm not saying ancestral visions is the best card to achieve the task but it works pretty well until I test standstill again.
No bobs with force and planeswalkers plus creatures have dissynergy with pernicious deed. This deck wins with manlands and planeswalkers. I found out fast that virtual card advantage isn't enough. That's truth from playtesting. Maverick will quickly teach that forgotten maxim. I found this out when playing stoneblade. Even with 4 story and snapcasters and jace I just ran out of cards simply put. One per turn from jace while trying to protect him is a losing battle most games. Control decks need extra cards in hand to keep up and get advantage. Ancestral vision or standstill need to be in the deck. The deck needs all the extra cards it can get. It needs a good amount of lands to get to the late game, good removal, library manipulation, planeswalkers, life from the loam and cardboard advantage. Not playing some additional way aside jace to draw cards is a mistake.
Maybe I dont understand... How is Veteran Explorer very good for you if the deck (at least the list right up) plays only 1 island?
And it's Planeswalker, not Plainswalker This is a Plainswalker
I like the archetype. Good primer, nice work.
Ah your right, I forgot Veteran explorer only fetches for basics. Yeah, then Veteran Exploerer is definitely bad for BUG Control then. So I just rewritten that part in the primer and I think I fixed the spelling errors on planeswalker. Funny for some reason I always spelled it Plainswalker and people haven't really mentioned that to me until now. Heh, oh well.
As for Ancestral Visions, I don't really like it in this deck. I much rather have some sort of removal spell then watching Visions tick especially against a deck like RUG Threshold, you don't always have infinite turns to actually do something in that matchup. Jace and brainstorm should be plenty of draw for this deck and if it's not then maybe you should think more thoroughly before casting your brainstorms. I have lost a ton of games casting brainstorms at the wrong times but I have also won a ton by learning to cast brainstorm at the correct time. Believe it or not, brainstorm is just as good as the player casting it. Bad players cast brainstorm for no reason or just to get some "cards" while good players cast brainstorm with a greater purpose. I know the temptation is there but if you want to win discipline yourself.
The comparison between ancestral visions and brainstorm isn't valid because they have different functions. I wasn't talking about or blaming poor brainstorming techniques. I was referring to the decks need for a cardboard drawing spell because you can simply fall behind on cards in hand by dealing with threats. Jace isn't enough to replace most cards expended by midgame. Brainstorm does not fill the card advantage requirement. Reason being you get a card for a card that's card parity. I'm talking about the need to replenish cards used from hand. Ancestral vision, standstill provide a cardboard refueling station and pair well with jace to outmuscle and get more cards in hand.
I also didn't know that there was some talk of BUG control in the BUGstill thread which was also a thread started by me. That's interesting.
Well the last 10 pages of decklists looked similar to mine and had no standstill, so i figure that's BUGC.
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I don't like visions or snapcaster in this deck. I never like visions, and snapcaster is alright, but i'd rather have other stuff. He dies to your own bloods and deeds, and the deck works fine without him. I might retry him though. There just isn't anything I want to take out.
As for the metagame, BUGC stands very well. In my eyes, it's like U/W Control except it has a good mavrick matchup.
EDIT: oh, and we have a pretty good MU vs. nic fit. I've played several matches against it and have yet to lose a match.
The comparison between ancestral visions and brainstorm isn't valid because they have different functions. I wasn't talking about or blaming poor brainstorming techniques. I was referring to the decks need for a cardboard drawing spell because you can simply fall behind on cards in hand by dealing with threats. Jace isn't enough to replace most cards expended by midgame. Brainstorm does not fill the card advantage requirement. Reason being you get a card for a card that's card parity. I'm talking about the need to replenish cards used from hand. Ancestral vision, standstill provide a cardboard refueling station and pair well with jace to outmuscle and get more cards in hand.
Hey settle down a bit Razefire, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in here that wasn't really my intent.
I also respectfully disagree, both Visions and Brainstorm have the same function because both of them draws you cards. With that said, Brainstorm is much more then just a cantrip IMO.
As for card parity, playing both Brainstorm and Jace gives you a great amount of card advantage, possibly, even more so then both Visions and standstill. Considering, standstill is very situational(With all of the different kinds of threats and the large facet of utility cards that people play.) in this fast metagame and so is visions since it takes like four turns to resolve. In addition, if I actually wanted card draw that I could play with confidence it's still Fact or Fiction. I played one in UW stoneblade for a little while and I always wanted to see it when I wanted to draw much needed cards in the late game. I was definitely happy about the results in tight games.
Well the last 10 pages of decklists looked similar to mine and had no standstill, so i figure that's BUGC.
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I don't like visions or snapcaster in this deck. I never like visions, and snapcaster is alright, but i'd rather have other stuff. He dies to your own bloods and deeds, and the deck works fine without him. I might retry him though. There just isn't anything I want to take out.
As for the metagame, BUGC stands very well. In my eyes, it's like U/W Control except it has a good mavrick matchup.
EDIT: oh, and we have a pretty good MU vs. nic fit. I've played several matches against it and have yet to lose a match.
Well, I know I said the matchup against nic fit can be difficult but that doesn't mean it's not a good matchup. In fact, I do agree, that the MU is a good one for us. We definitely have a great and large selection of tools built into the deck that a ton of matchups are winnable. This deck not only has good matchups against the top tier decks but it also has solid matchups against randomness too. I wouldn't be too surprised to see BUG Control in the proven part of these forums in the future. It definitely has that stride to get there and this deck definitely rewards players that play tightly.
I also totally agree that BUG Control definitely has a pretty good matchup against the huge uprising of Maverick.
Special thanks to Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the Banner.
I: History
Ever since the printing of snapcaster mage, BUG control has became an viable deck once again. This deck has evolved from the days of when Team America had it's finger print on the format to the dominate days of BUG Landstill with the printing of Jace, the mindsculptor. Then it's not until just recent where BUG control became it's own identity. At first, this deck had the gears to play full fledged aggro with tarmogoyfs, snapcasters, and dark confidants while then it could suddenly switch gears to play full fledged control. The deck had the powerful plainswalker like Jace to end late games while the deck featured pernicious deed to take control of the board similar to BUG landstill. Then after that installment this deck changed yet again to becoming more of a control deck and less of an aggro deck by cutting majority of the creatures of previous builds while adding more control cards like innocent blood. Which is what the deck is at right now.
II: Why play this deck over blue based stoneblade?
Even though BUG control doesn't have the capabilities to play aggro like stoneblade can this deck definitely has the ability to control matchups much better then stoneblade since it's much more focused on being an control deck compared to being an aggro-control deck especially if playing control is your thing.
BUG control also has the definite ability to destroy the other top decks with it's sheer card advantage and other control elements to help grind out matches for the win. Sure, there are many decision trees with this deck but it's actually straight forward. As in you have to make sure you can get to the late game against any deck with the tools this deck has and then win with manlands and/or planeswalkers.
III: Primer Decklist
I'll use Nicholas Spagnolo's BUG list as a template for this primer that he got second place with at the most recent SCG Invitational tournament.
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mishra's Factory
Creatures
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
2 Spell Pierce
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Innocent Blood
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Darkblast
3 Force of Will
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Spell Snare
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Ponder
1 Flusterstorm
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Dread of Night
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Perish
1 Raven's Crime
1 Scavenging Ooze
IV: Card Choices
Mishra's Factory: One of the most used win conditions for board control decks such as this BUG deck. The manland can't be killed by your own mass removal and an 2/2 creature that can potentially become bigger with another factory in play can definitely add up damage on your opponent especially in this deck that loves to see an empty battlefield.
Creeping Tar pit: Another great win condition much like factory but can be more devastating since it's a bit bigger that is also unblockable too.
Spell Pierce: Always a solid soft counterspell that can counter anything that your most worry about from opposing planeswalkers to possibly choke or an Green Sun zenith.
Jace, the mindsculptor: I don't think I need to explain much of Jace other then that he is planeswalker that fills multiple controlling roles for you that just helps you win games.
Lilliana of the veil: Another very solid planeswalker. She acts as a removal spell while she can also disrupt your opponent which is just one sided with the help of loam and spells that can just draw you cards like Jace and brainstorm.
Pernicious Deed: A great, all around board sweeper that can remove almost anything that your worried about from Choke to nimble mongoose. Considering, keeping the opposing side of the board clean is definitely something this deck wants to see to make maximize.
Innocent Blood: One black to make your opponent sac any creature on the battlefield is just powerful in this deck and so this deck has some legitimate first turn plays, although, casting this in the mid to late game can be relevant too.
Brainstorm: The best card in the deck. Casting this card correctly in largely dictate on how you will play out your many matches in tournaments. Brainstorm is also just a utility spell that lets you draw whatever you need to win as well.
Counterspell: I think it's still the best hard counter in the format. Counterspell has a huge efficiency rating in the mid to late game but also it can be very strong on turn 2 as well.
Darkblast: Awesome at killing mother of runes, noble hierarchs, dark confidants, and other utility creatures that can be devastating in the long run. You can also recycle Darkblast and use it again and again.
Force of will: Good when your tapped out and want to counter something significant. Legacy players know how useful Force of will and it's draw back is so I don't think I need to explain further.
Ghastly Demise: It's no swords to plowshares but still a pretty solid spot removal spell against a lot of creatures that are played.
Spell snare: There are a ton of decks that still have important cards that cost two mana and so spell snare is still relevant.
Nights Souls of Betrayal: An excellent enchantment that can kill weenie creatures that also stay in play. Amazing against maverick and other decks that run tiny creatures.
Inquistion of Koziliek: There are many decks that have spells that cost 0 to 3 and so Inquisition is very strong to cast.
Life from the Loam: This sorcery is very powerful and loam ensures your land drops since it recurs fetchlands and also lets you recover from wasteland + stifle. It's also great at recurring your own wastelands and/or manlands to finish games by attacking and/or disabling nonbasic lands.
Maelstrom Pulse: This is a catch-all answer to problematic non-land permanents and so it's like a Pernicious Deed but a spot removal version of it instead.
Ponder: Great card filter spell that digs for what you need in your deck and sets up your next couple of draws.
Flusterstorm: Pretty much for any type of storm combo deck or a deck that casts multiple spells in a single turn. Flusterstorm can also be really good in stopping counterspell wars.
Nihil Spellbomb: Usually for Graveyard based decks.
Dread of Night: Amazing against maverick since those decks run a bunch of small white creatures. You can also pair it with Darkblast or the other Night enchantment to remove a white creature that's a bit bigger then a 1/1.
Blue Elemental Blast: Blue blast is relevant against decks with several or more red cards in them.
Diabolic Edict: An additional removal spell against any creature deck.
Vendillion Clique: Great card against both control and storm combo. Also has other utility as well since it replaces an unwanted card in your hand or she gives you information by looking at your opponent's hand and having a choice to take a card or not.
Perish: Obviously very good mass removal spell against any creature deck that runs several or more green creatures in them.
Raven's Crime: Another card that can be very effective against control decks while it also can serve a mild purpose against decks like storm combo but it wouldn't be good against a deck that likes to discard a lot like Dredge.
Scavenging Ooze: Can be considered to be another anti-graveyard card that can also be used as a win condition since Ooze is a creature that can also become bigger and gain you life against the aggressive creature decks like Threshold.
V: Matchup Analysis:
Esper Stoneblade (With Lingering Souls): I'd say this matchup is somewhat in the stoneblade's favor preboard but postboard it definitely gets better with Raven's crime, spell pierce, v. clique, and dread of night which is your trump card against their seemingly endless spirit tokens. You should think when to cast your brainstorms at the best time and think it through on what to counter and what not to counter. Once again wasteland, manlands and loam can definitely do their work in this matchup. This matchup could definitely be close but it's definitely possible to win against Esper stoneblade with BUG Control.
GW Maverick: BUG control definitely has all the tools to beat GW maverick and it only gets better after sideboarding. You have all sorts of countermagic and removal to get ahead quickly and so they either help you stabalize and/or maintain control of the game. After you have achieved this you can start attacking with manlands and resolving an Jace to win the game. You have a huge advantage when you can just play Jace and then next turn untap your lands with Jace in play. Postboard, Dread of Night is very good against maverick. Killing all of the 2 toughness or less creatures with both Night enchantments is backbreaking against Maverick. Not to mention, both perish and spell pierce definitely have their roles in this matchup. Just watchout for Choke though.
Canadian Threshold/RUG Tempo Thresh: Here is another matchup where your definitely favored in. Again, you have so much removal in this deck that being able to live long enough past turn 3 or 4 seems pretty good for you. Jace maybe less apparent in this matchup but he still can be relevant if you move up his loyalty counters first. Manlands along with Loam and wasteland is definitely your best friend against a deck with burn spells, stifles, and wastelands.
Dredge: Definitely one of your hardest matchups in the tournament. You should definitely try to counter their combo outlet spells/creatures but again Dredge is very hard to interact with. Postboard, nihil spellbomb is pretty decent against Dredge if you activate the bomb just right but be careful as Dredge player can play around one hit wonder graveyard hate.
Bant: Once again another decent matchup. I would play this matchup similar to how you would play against GW maverick except with countermagic also. Although, not all Bant builds run countermagic. This deck has a bunch of different kinds of removal and counterspells that you can disrupt Bant in different ways to gain a sheer amount of advantage. Both Jace and Lilianna seems really good against this matchup. Postboard the matchup gets even better with clique, perish, spell pierce and edict. Just watch out for their own plainswalkers and changing from being a control player to a beat down player with manlands can definitely be key to taking this match.
Punishing Maverick: Potentially a harder matchup then straight GW Maverick. Mostly because of punishing fire and their ability to tutor for Grove of the Burn willows with Knight of the Reliquary, of course, there is a chance they can just topdeck it as well. Punishing Fire can be a significant problem since it's a recurring win condition against you at their disposal and when they game goes long Punishing Fire + Burn willows can be pretty challenging to play against since the combo is just amazingly good in attrition wars. Your only hope really is to draw into both loam and wasteland right away to kill their Burn willows before it gets out of hand. Aside from the Punishing fire/willows combo just play the matchup like you would play against the straight GW lists.
Burn: Another very hard matchup that can also be just impossible. You will have to hope that they don't draw into that many price of progresses and other burn spells that they can cast for free like fireblast. Postboard it gets better with blue blast and Scavenging ooze if you manage to find a creature to remove from the graveyard but you still will need all of the help that you can get in this match.
Nic Fit: This matchup can be difficult if they manage to wreck your hand with cabal therapy effects. Veteran Explorer can often be bad for you unless you play with more basic lands and so if Veteran dies Nic Fit gets to ramp into a ton more lands then you do so that is something to make note. Watch out for their win conditions such as grave titan and maelstrom pulses on your planeswalkers and you should be fine. Even if this matchup can be difficult it's still definitely winnable. Counterspell just happens to be one of the best cards in this matchup since it's a hard counter that can counter the most critical spells(e.g. Late game bombs and etc.) that Nic Fit plays.
Reanimator: A solid matchup for BUG Control. You play with a bunch of edict effects to make all of their creatures that they reanimate negligible. Even though your potentially making them discard a huge creature with a resolved Lilianna. She is still relevant since she can force the reanimator opponent to sac their large creature that they just reanimated. While, Inquisition can force the reanimator pilot to discard their best card which could be a reanimate spell, combo outlet spell or even a brainstorm. As for postboard, the matchup definitely gets better with graveyard hate to force them to win with Show and tell while also another spell pierce and another edict effect spell in the board helps too.
Storm Combo (ANT/TES): I feel ANT(Ad Nauseam Tendrils) is an easier deck to win against the TES. TES has more options available to it as far as comboing off goes. Obviously, you want to try to get a Force of will in your opening hand but if your on the play, a spell pierce in your opener is decent against both decks since you can stop them from going off on the first turn. I most likely wouldn't counter their first spell, try to wait to counter something more critical like that infernal tutor or that one ritual that will lead them from casting a Ad Nauseam. Although, against TES it gets to be much more tricky. Sometimes, countering a burning wish is the right play but other times countering that ritual is. Play it by ear and see how your opponent plays his/her cards in sequence to see which spell you want to disrupt the most. Also, having a brainstorm is definitely very strong on the play against storm combo since you can basically hide your strongest cards from a discard spell from them. There is no cut and dry strategy to beat Storm combo you will just have to use your best judgement into what is the best spell to counter and etc. Postboard, definitely gets better since you have flusterstorm, v. clique, and another spell pierce plus blue elemental blast for burning wish or a red ritual from the hands of a TES player.
VI: Other Decklists:
2 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantments
3 Pernicious Deed
Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Darkblast
3 Force of Will
1 Ghastly Demise
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
Legendary Enchantments
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
3 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Ponder
1 Island
Lands
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Dread of Night
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Claim
1 Spell Pierce
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Perish
2 Snapcaster Mage
Instants/Sorceries:
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ponder
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Innocent Blood
1 Darkblast
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Maestrom Pulse
2 Life From the Loam
3 Pernicious Deed
Legendary Enchantments:
1 Night of Soul’s Betrayal
Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Basic Land:
1 Island
Non-Basic Land:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mishra’s Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Dread of Night
2 Perish
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Vindilion Clique
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Raven’s Crime
2 Nature’s Claim
4x misty rainforest
4x polluted delta
1x verdant catacombs
3x underground sea
3x tropical island
1x bayou
1x tundra
1x swamp
1x island
3x mishra's factory
3x wasteland
4x jace, the mind sculptor
4x pernicious deed
3x liliana of the veil
Spells (24)
4x force of will
4x brainstorm
4x spell pierce
3x mana leak
3x spell snare
3x innocent blood
2x life from the loam
1x darkblast
3x thoughtseize
3x vendilion clique
3x extirpate
2x circle of protection: red
2x flusterstorm
1x damnation
1x darkblast
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
Planeswalkers
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Other Spells
2 Smother
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Ghastly Demise
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Life from the Loam
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Thoughtseize
3 Extirpate
2 Chill
1 Perish
2 Negate
2 Island
1 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mana Leak
1 Darkblast
3 Spell Snare
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Life from the Loam
2 Counterspell
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Innocent Blood
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Perish
2 Dread of Night
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Vendilion Clique
here it is:
4x misty rainforest
4x polluted delta
1x verdant catacombs
3x underground sea
3x tropical island
1x bayou
1x tundra
1x swamp
1x island
3x mishra's factory
3x wasteland
4x jace, the mind sculptor
4x pernicious deed
3x liliana of the veil
Spells (24)
4x force of will
4x brainstorm
4x spell pierce
3x mana leak
3x spell snare
3x innocent blood
2x life from the loam
1x darkblast
3x thoughtseize
3x vendilion clique
3x extirpate
2x circle of protection: red
2x flusterstorm
1x damnation
1x darkblast
it has been testing very, very well. i know singleton tundra for cop:r is sketchy, but it brings up the burn matchup to like 50% or more, whereas it would normally just be 10% or something stupid. chill just doesn't cut it.
as far as the 2nd place list, i don't really like it. night of soul's betrayal doesn't seem that great for 4 mana. i'm not a fan of snapcaster or ooze in the 75 either. nor do i like the non-typical BUG control cards such as IoK or ponder. i despise the tar pit; i used to run one for a long time but it just wasn't that great. most of the time unblockable was a useless ability, and it comes into play tapped as well as 3 to activate; terrible blocker too. factory is just better.
kinda diggin' the 1-of pulse though, i might try that out.
EDIT: nice work on the primer, kevin. as far as MUs go, i feel like esper and UW blade are in our favor like 55%. burn is bad, as i said. merfolk, goblins, zoo etc. are all pretty good. team america feels like 55-60% their favor.
I definitely like your list and your counterspell configuration seems really good because of how versatile and flexible it is. Also, a playset of Jaces and 3 Liliannas gets a nod from me.
As for BUG control replacing BUG Landstill, yeah I think it's definitely coming to that. Standstill has not been the same card ever since both Delver and snapcaster was introduced to Legacy. In addition, the banning of mental misstep also didn't help standstill either.
I am also glad you like the primer and I am still working on it too.
yah, i definitely agree with everything written here. you definitely know your legacy.
as for the primer, one quick suggestion: maybe spice it up with some sort of pic? either a banner or like 3-4 key cards spread across the top would look pretty good imo. at least for me, pics make threads more attractive and interesting, rather than bland and texty. banners especially look awesome. i'd be happy to get one for you from the sig/avy people; i have an idea of what it could look like.
Oh and I have a question for your list. I was wondering if you tried creeping tar pit out in your list? I personally think it's an amazing manland, although, it does come into play tapped which is a turn off. However, it does add two colors when it taps for mana and unlike islands it does untap when there is a choke in play. Perhaps, in hindsight it's advantages outweighs it's drawbacks. *Shrugs*
Edit: Oh oops, I missed the part where you mention about tarpit in one of your previous posts, my bad.
Edit 2: On another note, I do kind of want to try out Worm Harvest with loam to see how worthless/stupid it maybe but my fun for experimenting with off the wall card choices will always be here inside of me.
I also agree on snapcaster, I mean yeah it's pretty good in this deck but not exactly needed and yeah the night of souls' betrayal is definitely pretty random but I am sure there was some merit behind that. Since it could be just that random 1 card utility tech card that is just awesome in certain critical situations while not very useful at all in others.
creeping tar pit is alright, but i'm not a fan. i feel the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. first, if a BUGC list is built right, its colors should be easy to come by. the tar pit produce blue and black is nice, and can save you in some situations, but it is very rare. second, unblockable can be great in certain situations as well, but i tend to find that if i'm ever in one of those situations, i'd much rather be doing something else with my mana. third, etb tapped is just awful, especially when you have a mana-tight hand and also have a snare or pierce. also, 3 mana to activate is painful. even when i get ahead, i usually find myself wanting to keep a bit of my mana open for counterspells, and if you only have like 4-5 mana, keeping mana open while swinging with tar pit is just impossible. with factory, you don't have many of these problems. lastly, one of the most important functions of manlands + ltfl for BUGC is blocking. factory is a couple zillion times better at that than pit. anyways, it has potential, and is awesome in some situations and metas, but i'm not a fan.
i was thinking about worm harvest as well. same with nether spirit. in the end, though, i felt that those go in a deck more focused on lftl than classic BUG control, especially worm harvest. but i'm sure a different version can be made to harness the power of cards such as these... something like the lands deck with counterspells, or somewhere in between the two extremes.
snapcaster is alright, but i don't like that he dies to our own innocent bloods and deeds. i'd rather be playing something else.
keep up the good work on the primer! btw, what is your current list, if you have one?
I thought about making a BUG control deck with cunning wish to see how that pans out. I am not expecting alot from cunning wish in here so I am not sure I'll build a BUG deck with wishes in it or not. I might try it anyway though.
As for win conditions, yeah, it seems that Jace, lilianna, and mishra's factories are plenty of win conditions for BUG Control.
And I'll get back to you as soon as I have the banner
As for the banner, do you think you can tell a moderator to put it in the opening post whenever you have one? I usually don't have that much time on the weekdays so I am not always on here. You definitely have my permission to add the banner to the opening post.
Oh and I also added your decklist to the opening post just because your the first one to post in this thread. It's toward the bottom of the post.
Liliana is quockly becoming obviously the second best PW ever, so any deck that plays her and JTMS gotta be good
I'm suprised by the lack of discard, which would vastly improve your MU vs Burn.
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this deck has been developing for quite some time in the BUGstill thread, and the overall idea was discard wasn't that great. some lists had it, but i think most lists don't because we have counters and mass removal that can take almost anything down that would otherwise be discarded.
i run 3 seize and 3 clique in the SB, as many lists do, but thats mostly just for combo or whatever deck clique might be cool against.
Oh thanks, it's definitely fun to write a primer on a deck that I know well.
I haven't really tested against burn that much with this deck( I mostly have been playing against Blue based Stoneblade, RUG Threshold, and Maverick with it.) but I could see your point on inquisition of koz being at least fairly relevant against burn since you can take price of progress or something else.
I also definitely agree that Liliana and Jace together make an excellent tag team.
Yeah, I haven't been too crazy about playing discard in BUG control but Raggedjoe does have a point with discard being pretty good but yeah there is definitely a good amount of debate of how much discard you should play with x number of countermagic in the deck as well. With that being said, I do like discard quite a bit against both UW(x)/Esper Stoneblade and Maverick though.
I also didn't know that there was some talk of BUG control in the BUGstill thread which was also a thread started by me. That's interesting.
Edit: As for V. Clique, I actually tend to board her in against almost anything especially if I want another additional threat and/or to draw an extra card to replace a unwanted card in my hand.
I play Spagnolo's list on Cockatrice. Night of the Soul's Betrayal is sick with Dark Blast and post-board Dread of Night for Maverick and DnT. I have to say though, I prefer Extirpate or Surgical Extraction over Nihil Spellbomb.
What are your thoughts on Sensei's Divining Top? Its awesome with your Dredgers and fetches and opens up the potential for post-board Counterbalance to combat Burn and Storm combo. Burn is DTB right now so I'd imagine that CB/Top would be a good thing to run in the board. 2 Top could easily replace the Ponders. Also, Top is better than a single cantrip in the control and aggro control mirrors as sometimes you end up in topdeck mode without a hand because you've gotten into a counter war and killed all the opponent's creatures.
Also, I very much enjoyed the Primer (well done sir) but was curious to see that Storm combo is not listed in the matchups.
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As for Sensei's top being in here, I actually did think about running at least 1 in the main maybe two instead of maybe ponder. Ponder, only really has one dimensional value in this deck since it's only used to dig for either more lands or finding an answer or even finding that win condition to seal the deal. While ponder is most likely a more then one dimensional card in a deck like Can Thresh since you have delvers to transform or to build up threshold. While, sure Sensei's top does the samething as ponder but it's a constant filter card engine. So I totally agree with you, I think sensei's top would help make this deck more consistent and resilient. I also like the idea of counterbalance in the board too.
Anyway, I hope this deck top 8's multiple times later today in the SCG Legacy open.
Maybe I dont understand... How is Veteran Explorer very good for you if the deck (at least the list right up) plays only 1 island?
And it's Planeswalker, not Plainswalker This is a Plainswalker
I like the archetype. Good primer, nice work.
From my playtesting, i feel the same than razefire. I was thinking of 2 solutions. Standstill vs Dark confidant.
I've tested a list with Bob and SCM and it worked well. (except the fact that my innocent blood and Pernicious deed were less effective).
What do you think of dark confidant in that list. Maybe Standstill or Ancestrall Vision are more effective with the removal of the deck.
If we are going on Sensei's top + counterbalance in the board, I think that Bob could be a good choice
Ah your right, I forgot Veteran explorer only fetches for basics. Yeah, then Veteran Exploerer is definitely bad for BUG Control then. So I just rewritten that part in the primer and I think I fixed the spelling errors on planeswalker. Funny for some reason I always spelled it Plainswalker and people haven't really mentioned that to me until now. Heh, oh well.
As for Ancestral Visions, I don't really like it in this deck. I much rather have some sort of removal spell then watching Visions tick especially against a deck like RUG Threshold, you don't always have infinite turns to actually do something in that matchup. Jace and brainstorm should be plenty of draw for this deck and if it's not then maybe you should think more thoroughly before casting your brainstorms. I have lost a ton of games casting brainstorms at the wrong times but I have also won a ton by learning to cast brainstorm at the correct time. Believe it or not, brainstorm is just as good as the player casting it. Bad players cast brainstorm for no reason or just to get some "cards" while good players cast brainstorm with a greater purpose. I know the temptation is there but if you want to win discipline yourself.
Well the last 10 pages of decklists looked similar to mine and had no standstill, so i figure that's BUGC.
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I don't like visions or snapcaster in this deck. I never like visions, and snapcaster is alright, but i'd rather have other stuff. He dies to your own bloods and deeds, and the deck works fine without him. I might retry him though. There just isn't anything I want to take out.
As for the metagame, BUGC stands very well. In my eyes, it's like U/W Control except it has a good mavrick matchup.
EDIT: oh, and we have a pretty good MU vs. nic fit. I've played several matches against it and have yet to lose a match.
Hey settle down a bit Razefire, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in here that wasn't really my intent.
I also respectfully disagree, both Visions and Brainstorm have the same function because both of them draws you cards. With that said, Brainstorm is much more then just a cantrip IMO.
As for card parity, playing both Brainstorm and Jace gives you a great amount of card advantage, possibly, even more so then both Visions and standstill. Considering, standstill is very situational(With all of the different kinds of threats and the large facet of utility cards that people play.) in this fast metagame and so is visions since it takes like four turns to resolve. In addition, if I actually wanted card draw that I could play with confidence it's still Fact or Fiction. I played one in UW stoneblade for a little while and I always wanted to see it when I wanted to draw much needed cards in the late game. I was definitely happy about the results in tight games.
Well, I know I said the matchup against nic fit can be difficult but that doesn't mean it's not a good matchup. In fact, I do agree, that the MU is a good one for us. We definitely have a great and large selection of tools built into the deck that a ton of matchups are winnable. This deck not only has good matchups against the top tier decks but it also has solid matchups against randomness too. I wouldn't be too surprised to see BUG Control in the proven part of these forums in the future. It definitely has that stride to get there and this deck definitely rewards players that play tightly.
I also totally agree that BUG Control definitely has a pretty good matchup against the huge uprising of Maverick.