But SSJ4 is all filler as well as anything pertaining to Dragonball GT so that argument doesn't add up at all. Even If Goku went SSJ1 he would still beat Superman hands down and throwing Kryptonite in the mix would make for an unfair fight.
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I can't see Superman winning a fight with Goku. Unless someone's hurting his family or his girl, Superman's only goal seems to be stopping in the fight peacefully.
Goku kills Superman.
Goku didn't kill Vegeta or Frieza, even after the latter murdered his best friend and was going to kill his son. Why the hell would he kill Superman in-character when Superman is holding back?
If anybody wins, he's not going to kill the opponent. Neither Goku nor Superman works that way.
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If we're going to be serious about this and for the sake of Dragonball nerdom I'm going to have to leave Dragonball GT out of this since it was never canon to the franchise. What really happened from what I was told about this conflict was this:
Goku and Superman fight, Superman has the advantage until Goku turns SSJ1 and fires a Kamehameha Wave at him thus defeating Superman. That's what really happened between Goku and Superman according to fan fiction lore. No SSJ2, SSJ3, or Instant Transmission.
I don't understand how a Kamehameha even annoys superman. He can fly into the ****ing sun and not die. Some energy beam - even if its power is over 9000 - doesn't seem likely to vex Supes.
I think if you restrict them to respectable cannon powerlevels, it's a close fight but superman wins.
If you max power both, SSJ anything isn't as strong as Superman Prime. Prime is an omnipotent, Omniscient God. And I mean an Allah or Jehova kind of God, not the Thor-Odin sort of God who is powerful but pseudo-mortal and human like.
If Superman Prime decides someone needs to die, they die. And I mean literally he just wills them dead - he can change reality at will. And if they somehow survive that, he destroys the universe they are both standing in, raises himself from the dead, and then recreates the universe with the offending individual missing.
Further, Goku has limits - he has to eat, and sleep, and breath. Superman doesn't. Goku has massive power; supermans power levels are functionally infinite.
I think we can all agree that super man prime is OP and cant be beat.
When it doesnt come to that, i dont see how superman has it. Id say maybe goku ssj=superman but anything above, naw. Goku takes it. Goku managed to defeat broly, who had destroyed a galaxy. Come to think of it, i think goku might have been ssj only. In that case, he also beats superman. Superman can beat pre freeza goku, maybe.
I think we can all agree that super man prime is OP and cant be beat.
When it doesnt come to that, i dont see how superman has it. Id say maybe goku ssj=superman but anything above, naw. Goku takes it. Goku managed to defeat broly, who had destroyed a galaxy. Come to think of it, i think goku might have been ssj only. In that case, he also beats superman. Superman can beat pre freeza goku, maybe.
I think you underestimate how much damage superman can both dish out and withstand. Superman can lift planets; Goku can't. Superman can easily withstand the full blast of a supernova; I'd be surprised if Goku can.
Goku has superman on speed via instant transmission, but not by much in the physical world.
Superman doesn't have to breathe or eat; Goku does.
Really, I don't understand how people think Goku has this.
take the dragon balls out of the solar system that has super man in it. Goku then commits suicide by blowing up the solar system which would result in super man losing his powers since he has no yellow sun to fill him with power, if that were not enough an exploding star/sun should be enough to kill them both.
once there both dead, goku's friends use the dragon balls to wish him back to life. hell maybe goku could instant transmission out of the solar system before the explosion kills him.
end of story...
japanese story telling and american story telling, (especially the anime variety) do not blend well.
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take the dragon balls out of the solar system that has super man in it. Goku then commits suicide by blowing up the solar system which would result in super man losing his powers since he has no yellow sun to fill him with power, if that were not enough an exploding star/sun should be enough to kill them both.
once there both dead, goku's friends use the dragon balls to wish him back to life. hell maybe goku could instant transmission out of the solar system before the explosion kills him.
end of story...
japanese story telling and american story telling, (especially the anime variety) do not blend well.
Superman can survive a supernova. Also Goku doesn't know the source of supermans powers and is an idiot. Also Goku isn't going to commit to a plan which involves destroying earth.
they just use the parts of the literature that they want to define the battle.... lol
I'm quite sure you can find proof that would lead to victory by the other side.
Also Goku doesn't know the source of supermans powers and is an idiot.
I haven't voted and I keep getting swayed either way (ignoring the God-ness of Superman Prime). HOWEVER the above statement has me really leaning towards Superman...
And just for the record I love Dragon Ball/Z and have never really been a fan of Superman. He has always been one of my least favorite superheroes. But I can admit that he definitely has Goku beat in the intelligence department.
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they just use the parts of the literature that they want to define the battle.... lol
I'm quite sure you can find proof that would lead to victory by the other side.
I choose Goku. He can instantaneously teleport anywhere in the universe and is stronger than even the gods in his universe.
Even if by some chance Superman could kill him, however unlikely, Goku has been shown able to teleport from heaven just to fight someone.
As for surviving in space, his body seems more than sturdy enough to survive a vacuum, and I'm sure he can hold his breath and fight long enough to teleport back to a planet.
Me and my friends used to try and figure out someone who could beat Goku, we've realized no brute force could stop him. He is naive though so someone who could attack the mind could beat him (Jean Grey and Aizen Sosuke come to mind). I don't believe Superman had any telepathic abilities pre-Crisis, so he wouldn't be able to fight on that front.
Me and my friends used to try and figure out someone who could beat Goku, we've realized no brute force could stop him.
How about Simon the Digger? Picture of him fighting (In mech made out of literal badass) for good measure.
Yes, those are galaxies in the background
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I choose Goku. He can instantaneously teleport anywhere in the universe and is stronger than even the gods in his universe.
Even if by some chance Superman could kill him, however unlikely, Goku has been shown able to teleport from heaven just to fight someone.
As for surviving in space, his body seems more than sturdy enough to survive a vacuum, and I'm sure he can hold his breath and fight long enough to teleport back to a planet.
Me and my friends used to try and figure out someone who could beat Goku, we've realized no brute force could stop him. He is naive though so someone who could attack the mind could beat him (Jean Grey and Aizen Sosuke come to mind). I don't believe Superman had any telepathic abilities pre-Crisis, so he wouldn't be able to fight on that front.
1) Superman is stronger than Goku (he can lift planets; Goku can't)
2) Superman is tougher than Goku (He can survive exploding stars; Goku can apparrently be killed by large nukes)
3) Superman can't teleport, but is faster in physical movement (Superman can fly at a large multiple of the speed of light, which means in combat he would move his limbs faster)
4) Superman is super-smart; goku is dumber than a bag of rocks.
Also it is cannon in the show that goku cannot survive in vacuum.
You clearly haven't ever seen DBZ if you have to even ask.
Goku's super powers are effectively
1) Will always find a way to raise his power level above that of rival so that their defeat is relatively simple and he can patronisingly tell them they should have listened to him when he offered them a chance to surrender.
2) He comes back to life
Combine the 2 and you would have a long strung out fight where superman looks like he will win and may even kill goku but then he will come back as a super ultra mega saiyan level 10 with whipped cream and a cherry and beat superman with his little finger..... sadly I wish I was joking.
DBZ follows the same premise as He-man did back in the 80's, Goku is naive and not very bright but he will always come out on top and then end the fight with a cheesy moral.
Goku doesn't need to be smart he has good morals and justice on his side, yes superman is technically the same but if for purposes of this fight superman is seen as goku's enemy there isn't anyway supes will beat goku.
Goku was able to defeat people that could destroy galaxies in blink of eye.
So seriously the only thing stopping goku beating someone is whether or not they are considered evil and how many episodes they want to drag it out for.
Actually, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHdgn3UaBc points out that Brolly destroying galaxies in the blink of an eye is a terribad dub issue, not in the japanese (Brolly spent several decades wiping out civs in the south galaxy; the whole series takes place on planets in said galaxy, which are blatantly not destroyed.)
And this notion that "Goku just becomes more powerful than blah blah" I think you'll find that is called "being a hero". Everyone does it; you get beaten up a bit and then find a trick/a reserve of power/magical pants.
The Goku VS superman bit referenced earlier uses several cannon points to show Goku's power level. It is a pitful fraction of supermans. Superman wins in any fight where neither character has plot armour, and it isn't close.
Actually, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHdgn3UaBc points out that Brolly destroying galaxies in the blink of an eye is a terribad dub issue, not in the japanese (Brolly spent several decades wiping out civs in the south galaxy; the whole series takes place on planets in said galaxy, which are blatantly not destroyed.)
And this notion that "Goku just becomes more powerful than blah blah" I think you'll find that is called "being a hero". Everyone does it; you get beaten up a bit and then find a trick/a reserve of power/magical pants.
The Goku VS superman bit referenced earlier uses several cannon points to show Goku's power level. It is a pitful fraction of supermans. Superman wins in any fight where neither character has plot armour, and it isn't close.
It is specifically pointed out by Vegeta that when Saiyan's get defeated they become a lot stronger. I don't disagree that Superman wins, I am strongly in the category that the Man of Steel absolutely wins in a head to head fight against Goku; but Saiyan's do get stronger as they get beaten.
Maybe thats why I'm completely impartial being neither American nor Japanese I just look at the material.
I can honestly say I've never understood Americans belief in Batman being able to defeat anything , he's a great hero in a normal human world but he isn't even a Super Hero ><.
Goku isn't even close to smart enough to figure out that Superman gets his power from the sun, and unless Superman or someone else tells him he wouldn't even know to try and transport them somewhere else.
Actually, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHdgn3UaBc points out that Brolly destroying galaxies in the blink of an eye is a terribad dub issue, not in the japanese (Brolly spent several decades wiping out civs in the south galaxy; the whole series takes place on planets in said galaxy, which are blatantly not destroyed.)
And this notion that "Goku just becomes more powerful than blah blah" I think you'll find that is called "being a hero". Everyone does it; you get beaten up a bit and then find a trick/a reserve of power/magical pants.
The Goku VS superman bit referenced earlier uses several cannon points to show Goku's power level. It is a pitful fraction of supermans. Superman wins in any fight where neither character has plot armour, and it isn't close.
Did you not read the thread?
I can't really argue with you as anything you disagree with just becomes non canon for some reason.
But on the intelligence thing, Goku is innocent, not stupid. He may not be the brightest pencil in the shed but he shows to learn while fighting. And it seems kinda weird that we can't decide on a "version". We all agree that Superman Prime beats Goku, but we decided not to use it. I dunno, I'm distracted. Superman as I've seen in movies/youtube loses. I guess if you go by comics/stuff I haven't seen it might be closer.
I'm not underestimating him, I am stacking him against Superman. The man of steel. Base canon, there have only been a few instances where Superman was hurt when kryptonite was not involved; he's virtually invulnerable. His weaknesses are hard to discern without some sort of prior knowledge or enough time to research them. This is assuming Goku goes into the fight relatively blind (and we can say the same for Superman against Goku.) Goku would have to figure it out on his own that the sun is the source of Superman's power. In the heat of a fast paced power between two insanely powerful beings I don't think it would come up.
There is also the issue of power running out. Superman has been shown to be just as powerful at night as he was during the day; Goku has a limited amount of power, and even when his power level was insanely high, he's using that energy, and he's running out. Superman recharges in sunlight, and I am almost certain Goku is going to run out of steam before Superman does (the guy consumes so much energy, you can figure that out just looking at how much food he consumes on a daily basis.)
This is me basing Superman on his most common comic book version. He's stronger than Goku, he's invulnerable in most circumstances where Goku is not, and he has more stamina.
That isn't to say that Goku doesn't have a lot of stamina and strength himself; he certainly does. He's fought some insanely powerful beings. The truth is, it is impossible to truly say who would win. My vote goes to Superman though.
This is getting stupid. I thought Goku was the king of crazy feats, but I see that superman also has his. This is WAY too inconsistent. You see Goku SS1 beat a dude who's destroyed galaxies on screen. Yet he apparently can't move planets (I think I've heard that from some superfanboys) and superman's power are also as inconsistant. I've seen him get beaten up by some guy throwing him around, and he was put into a "healing coma" from that guy beating him enough. In other ones, he essentially has the closest thing to a big bang punch ever (don't ask about the physics of it though).
Superman can't be fought. His very abilities make no sense. Goku, with the ki and all that still try to bring logic into it, superman just takes cool sounding things to make everything stupid. First, the FTL travel, how do we measure that? Do we allow it? Or ignore it? If we do what happens? As soon as one tries to go ftl they both lose as the universe breaks? What about the Octillion punch? Do we go "it says it works, so it works" or do we go by actual physics and go "he gets they idea, tries it and everything goes to hell". At least Goku has semi realistic powers.
I don't know what to do with Superman, I don't even know what to base myself off of, he was beaten by a big mummy. He can apparently withstand the end of the universe.
Being in contact with Kriptonite almost kills him. Actually it does nothing to him, he just is slightly weakened like a minor annoyance.
Red sun is bad for him. Nah he's fine. He can go into a yellow sun become super baws, or go in a red sun and ignore it entirely, what ever.
I'm not underestimating him, I am stacking him against Superman. The man of steel. Base canon, there have only been a few instances where Superman was hurt when kryptonite was not involved; he's virtually invulnerable. His weaknesses are hard to discern without some sort of prior knowledge or enough time to research them. This is assuming Goku goes into the fight relatively blind (and we can say the same for Superman against Goku.) Goku would have to figure it out on his own that the sun is the source of Superman's power. In the heat of a fast paced power between two insanely powerful beings I don't think it would come up..
Not to mention Goku is kind of an idiot, he'd probably never figure it out unless Bulma or someone yelled it at him, but even then they would have a lot of trouble observing that particular source of power since there are no outward signs of it.
Edit: not to say he's totally stupid, but that's a really difficult thing to surmise. Even a brilliant man who knew nothing of photosynthesis would take a pretty long time to observe that plants use the sun as their food source, for instance.
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If anybody wins, he's not going to kill the opponent. Neither Goku nor Superman works that way.
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Super Saiyan 2 Goku would have about an even fight with Superman, I would say.
I don't understand how a Kamehameha even annoys superman. He can fly into the ****ing sun and not die. Some energy beam - even if its power is over 9000 - doesn't seem likely to vex Supes.
I think if you restrict them to respectable cannon powerlevels, it's a close fight but superman wins.
If you max power both, SSJ anything isn't as strong as Superman Prime. Prime is an omnipotent, Omniscient God. And I mean an Allah or Jehova kind of God, not the Thor-Odin sort of God who is powerful but pseudo-mortal and human like.
If Superman Prime decides someone needs to die, they die. And I mean literally he just wills them dead - he can change reality at will. And if they somehow survive that, he destroys the universe they are both standing in, raises himself from the dead, and then recreates the universe with the offending individual missing.
Further, Goku has limits - he has to eat, and sleep, and breath. Superman doesn't. Goku has massive power; supermans power levels are functionally infinite.
When it doesnt come to that, i dont see how superman has it. Id say maybe goku ssj=superman but anything above, naw. Goku takes it. Goku managed to defeat broly, who had destroyed a galaxy. Come to think of it, i think goku might have been ssj only. In that case, he also beats superman. Superman can beat pre freeza goku, maybe.
I think you underestimate how much damage superman can both dish out and withstand. Superman can lift planets; Goku can't. Superman can easily withstand the full blast of a supernova; I'd be surprised if Goku can.
Goku has superman on speed via instant transmission, but not by much in the physical world.
Superman doesn't have to breathe or eat; Goku does.
Really, I don't understand how people think Goku has this.
once there both dead, goku's friends use the dragon balls to wish him back to life. hell maybe goku could instant transmission out of the solar system before the explosion kills him.
end of story...
japanese story telling and american story telling, (especially the anime variety) do not blend well.
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Superman can survive a supernova. Also Goku doesn't know the source of supermans powers and is an idiot. Also Goku isn't going to commit to a plan which involves destroying earth.
So, you know, NEXT!
http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-goku-vs-superman
still....
they just use the parts of the literature that they want to define the battle.... lol
I'm quite sure you can find proof that would lead to victory by the other side.
still, fun to watch
I haven't voted and I keep getting swayed either way (ignoring the God-ness of Superman Prime). HOWEVER the above statement has me really leaning towards Superman...
And just for the record I love Dragon Ball/Z and have never really been a fan of Superman. He has always been one of my least favorite superheroes. But I can admit that he definitely has Goku beat in the intelligence department.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That...was actually really good.
Even if by some chance Superman could kill him, however unlikely, Goku has been shown able to teleport from heaven just to fight someone.
As for surviving in space, his body seems more than sturdy enough to survive a vacuum, and I'm sure he can hold his breath and fight long enough to teleport back to a planet.
Me and my friends used to try and figure out someone who could beat Goku, we've realized no brute force could stop him. He is naive though so someone who could attack the mind could beat him (Jean Grey and Aizen Sosuke come to mind). I don't believe Superman had any telepathic abilities pre-Crisis, so he wouldn't be able to fight on that front.
How about Simon the Digger? Picture of him fighting (In mech made out of literal badass) for good measure.
Yes, those are galaxies in the background
"I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he's talking about."
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1) Superman is stronger than Goku (he can lift planets; Goku can't)
2) Superman is tougher than Goku (He can survive exploding stars; Goku can apparrently be killed by large nukes)
3) Superman can't teleport, but is faster in physical movement (Superman can fly at a large multiple of the speed of light, which means in combat he would move his limbs faster)
4) Superman is super-smart; goku is dumber than a bag of rocks.
Also it is cannon in the show that goku cannot survive in vacuum.
Explain to me again how goku wins this fight?
Actually, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHdgn3UaBc points out that Brolly destroying galaxies in the blink of an eye is a terribad dub issue, not in the japanese (Brolly spent several decades wiping out civs in the south galaxy; the whole series takes place on planets in said galaxy, which are blatantly not destroyed.)
And this notion that "Goku just becomes more powerful than blah blah" I think you'll find that is called "being a hero". Everyone does it; you get beaten up a bit and then find a trick/a reserve of power/magical pants.
The Goku VS superman bit referenced earlier uses several cannon points to show Goku's power level. It is a pitful fraction of supermans. Superman wins in any fight where neither character has plot armour, and it isn't close.
It is specifically pointed out by Vegeta that when Saiyan's get defeated they become a lot stronger. I don't disagree that Superman wins, I am strongly in the category that the Man of Steel absolutely wins in a head to head fight against Goku; but Saiyan's do get stronger as they get beaten.
Did you not read the thread?
I can't really argue with you as anything you disagree with just becomes non canon for some reason.
But on the intelligence thing, Goku is innocent, not stupid. He may not be the brightest pencil in the shed but he shows to learn while fighting. And it seems kinda weird that we can't decide on a "version". We all agree that Superman Prime beats Goku, but we decided not to use it. I dunno, I'm distracted. Superman as I've seen in movies/youtube loses. I guess if you go by comics/stuff I haven't seen it might be closer.
But you seem to be way underestimating Goku.
There is also the issue of power running out. Superman has been shown to be just as powerful at night as he was during the day; Goku has a limited amount of power, and even when his power level was insanely high, he's using that energy, and he's running out. Superman recharges in sunlight, and I am almost certain Goku is going to run out of steam before Superman does (the guy consumes so much energy, you can figure that out just looking at how much food he consumes on a daily basis.)
This is me basing Superman on his most common comic book version. He's stronger than Goku, he's invulnerable in most circumstances where Goku is not, and he has more stamina.
That isn't to say that Goku doesn't have a lot of stamina and strength himself; he certainly does. He's fought some insanely powerful beings. The truth is, it is impossible to truly say who would win. My vote goes to Superman though.
Superman can't be fought. His very abilities make no sense. Goku, with the ki and all that still try to bring logic into it, superman just takes cool sounding things to make everything stupid. First, the FTL travel, how do we measure that? Do we allow it? Or ignore it? If we do what happens? As soon as one tries to go ftl they both lose as the universe breaks? What about the Octillion punch? Do we go "it says it works, so it works" or do we go by actual physics and go "he gets they idea, tries it and everything goes to hell". At least Goku has semi realistic powers.
I don't know what to do with Superman, I don't even know what to base myself off of, he was beaten by a big mummy. He can apparently withstand the end of the universe.
Being in contact with Kriptonite almost kills him. Actually it does nothing to him, he just is slightly weakened like a minor annoyance.
Red sun is bad for him. Nah he's fine. He can go into a yellow sun become super baws, or go in a red sun and ignore it entirely, what ever.
At least Goku had only 1 author :/
What the ****?
Not to mention Goku is kind of an idiot, he'd probably never figure it out unless Bulma or someone yelled it at him, but even then they would have a lot of trouble observing that particular source of power since there are no outward signs of it.
Edit: not to say he's totally stupid, but that's a really difficult thing to surmise. Even a brilliant man who knew nothing of photosynthesis would take a pretty long time to observe that plants use the sun as their food source, for instance.
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