Edit: This takes place before Palpatine's death and after the Horus Heresy. The two Galaxies (the Milky Way and the Star Wars Galaxy) are colliding.
The Emperor of Mankind
The founder of the Imperium, an enigmatic and mysterious persona known only as "the Emperor" or "Emperor of Mankind", may or may not be of normal human origin; he is an ancient being of immeasurable psychic power, god-like charisma, vast knowledge, and millennia-long experience. While his powers are often greatly exaggerated by his many followers, he is one of the the strongest psykers his Galaxy.
Uniting all of mankind under his banner he created a race of super-soilders known as the Space Marines and proceeded to almost conquer all of the Milk Way. He was betrayed by his trusted Primarch Horus Lupercal and mortally wounded.
Emperor Palpatine
Darth Sidious was one of the last Sith under Darth Bane's Sith Order. As a result of Rule of Two, which established that the apprentice of a Dark Lord of the Sith must supersede the master in power, Sidious had accumulated, effectively, 1000 years of hidden study of the dark side from the two-Sith rule lineage and was, as a result, one of the most powerful Force practitioners in the history of the galaxy.
Sideous used unmeasurable amounts of force manipulation to propel him in political office. Once there he created the beast known as the Empire. Billions died at the hands of (or direct influence) Palpatine. He was also responsible for turning Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side.
This is not just a battle between these two powerful telepaths, but also the empires under their command. Using all of the resources at their disposal who would win, not this battle, but this war?
Yeah, this would be an interesting battle, but at the end of the day, Imperium of Man takes it in brutal and merciless fashion.
Maybe if this was just The Empire Vs. The Imperial Guard than maybe, possibly the Empire wins.
But when you throw in the Ultra Marines, then The Empire just gets crushed.
There's hundreds of billions of Imperial Guard that are bred specifically for war everyday.
That would make for an ultra violent bloodbath of clones, machinery and Imperial Guardsmen strewn across intergalactic battlefields.
But the second you throw in Power Armored Super Soldiers, where a troupe of 10 is considered good enough to overtake an entire planet? Then yeah, even the powers of the Force won't be able to stop a single chapter from running roughshod over the capital.
I don't even want to think about it if we consider throwing in Terminator armor and War Machines in this. That's just not fair.
When it comes into a direct conflict of the Emperors taking on each other in psychic combat? Well that's also interesting considering what Palpatine can do, and the fact that Palpatine is mobile while the other guy is forced to be on a Golden Throne.
But considering he needs hundreds of thousands of souls fed to him on a daily basis to feed his psychic powers that are used specifically to battle Gods of chaos, then I don't think Palpatine even gets close enough to try and disable his life force.
Considering the facts between Ground forces and Aeronautica Imperialis, I give this one to the Imperium of Man.
Let's look at some of the facts.
Psykers are a lot more powerful in theory than Jedi/Sith, they have to reach into the Warp, the immaterium, and literally touch the entities inside in order to physically manifest awesome powers in the physical realm. This could be as simple as Lightning protruding from their hands or as complex as moving entire galaxies into the warp.
The Emperor of Man - Father of the Primarchs (demigods of immeasurable power and stature) He's over 10-15 ft. tall, the Strongest Psyker in the galaxy, literally gave birth to one of the strongest military powers in the 40K universe. Palpatine is merely a slave compared to Him.
Ground Forces -
Imperium - Space Marines - The Military Scalpel of the Imperium, genetically modifed, physically enhanced, towering super soldiers. Wearing mighty suits of powered armour that is generally very thick compared to conventional armor. Wielding the mightiest weapons ranging from the Holy Bolter to the mighty Las-Cannon. (Think of bolter shells as giant grenade type bullets, they hit their target and explode from within.)
Space Marine Vehicles - Land Speeders, Rhino Armoured Transport, Whirlwind missile tank, Predator Battle Tank, The Mighty Land Raider, (the strongest vehicle armor in the game is Armor 14, and the Land Raider is 14 all the way around.) Thunderhawk Gunships, etc, there's a lot of Space Marine vehicles.
Oops, I forgot about Dreadnoughts. Massive, Hulking machines in which heavily wounded Space Marines are put into to Pilot to keep fighting for the Chapter. Even in death, they serve the Emperor's will.
Weapons - Boltgun (Bolter), Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Varying Missile Launchers, Las Cannon, Autocannon.
Imperial Guard - If the space marines are the Scalpel, then the Imperial Guard are the might Hammer of the Imperium. Massive legions of Guardsmen, Massive Armored Regiments, Total control of the Imperial Fleets/Navy, oh, and Allied help of the Titan Legions.
Guardsmen are kinda like the average day soldier, except with better guns and better tanks.
I'm not an expert on the Guard, but they do have Access to the Baneblade Battle Tank, and all the variations on that, Baneblade Tanks are generally Titan Destroyers... And their Guns usually have a strength value of D for "Destroyer" meaning no contemporary Armor is a match for the weapons strength.
Legio Titanica - The Titan Legions are quite a powerful force also. A simple Warhound Titan would probably be about twice the size of an AT-AT, and generally twice as powerful as well. Each Titan is equipped with Void Shields to nullify incoming fire from long-range targets. Each of the Titans arms are equipped with a ranged weapon, each of varying strength and varying fire-types. Each gun usually has about two different firing modes.
Reaver Titans - Larger than the Warhound Titan, generally equipped with a Close-combat arm as well as an Apocalypse Missile Launcher on top, as well as the other arm being another ranged weapon. These are more powerful than the Warhound Titans. I'd estimate it could easily destroy anything in its' path.
Imperator Titan - again, a larger, mor powerful titan.
Emperor Class Battle Titan - Emperor Titans are immense, mobile fortresses, mounting veritable arsenals of weaponry, protected by void shield generators and armour so thick an Emperor Titan would not be out of place on a planetary defence installation. Emperor Titans are among the largest mobile battle units that can be deployed on a planet's surface. It forms a vital role, employed against the most formidable and overtly powerful enemies, providing massive, destructive and directed power.
Moving on to the Imperial Navy, Most of the Standard ships employed in the Imperial Navy carry weaponry that could easily rival that of the Death Star, and they can Fire it more frequently too. Hell, even Thunderhawk Gunships carry Death-Star type Lasers...
Most Imperial Battleships range in the 8KM size from Prow to Stern. And carry an immense amount of firepower, as well as smaller attack craft that can engage enemy capital ships out of range for the ships main weapon batteries. (Remember, Capital Ships in 40K are considerably larger than those in Star Wars)
Basically put, The Empire from star wars is SO out matched, it'd be best for them to not even TRY to fight the imperium...
Truth be told, I was actually going to make my own thread like this, but didn't have the time to, lol
EDIT: Did someone actually vote for star wars? Even though they're incredibly outmatched?
EDIT: Did someone actually vote for star wars? Even though they're incredibly outmatched?
Don't look at me. I normally vote for the underdog, but only if I believe that the underdog has a conceivable chance of winning. In this case, Palpatine and his forces lose handily.... they just can't win.
I have to thank my best friend for info dumping all that stuff about the Emperor of Mankind on me, otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to vote for him.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
Don't look at me. I normally vote for the underdog, but only if I believe that the underdog has a conceivable chance of winning. In this case, Palpatine and his forces lose handily.... they just can't win.
I have to thank my best friend for info dumping all that stuff about the Emperor of Mankind on me, otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to vote for him.
Yeah, I think if I posted a size comparison between the Emperor and palpatine, people wouldn't hesitate to vote for the Imperium. Plus, considering a Space Marine is easily twice as tall and wide as a normal stormtrooper, lol... And the Guns.... hee hee, there's a Reason I play 40K over Star Wars...:D
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Voted for The Galactic Empire, based solely on my belief that you should NEVER, EVER bet against Boba Fett.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Voted for The Galactic Empire, based solely on my belief that you should NEVER, EVER bet against Boba Fett.
I disagree. Boba Fett would lose. If you can conquer the galaxy with 10 space marines, what do you think they'd do to Fett?
Fett hasn't fought against Demigods before, and that's exactly how the 10 Primarchs compare in power. They're 15 foot tall demigods able to conquer the galaxy by themselves....
Plus, The Imperium has a greater number of Soldiers. Sure, they don't have as many space marines, but seriously, what would you do against 8 BILLION Guardsmen? and that's just on one battlefield...
The Jedi/Sith are nothing compared to Alpha level Psykers, with a wave of a psyker's hand, he could tear the death star to shreds...
Plus, a Normal battleship for the imperial nacy is about the size of 12 star destroyers put together, and has the equivalent firepower to crack planets...
Plus, the Void Shields on the Imperial Navy are meant to protect it while it travels in the Warp, the immaterium, the realm of Chaos... Obviously more powerful than anything in the Star Wars universe.
40K has a numbers, and technological advantage against Star Wars...
Legio Titanica - The Titan Legions are quite a powerful force also. A simple Warhound Titan would probably be about twice the size of an AT-AT, and generally twice as powerful as well. Each Titan is equipped with Void Shields to nullify incoming fire from long-range targets. Each of the Titans arms are equipped with a ranged weapon, each of varying strength and varying fire-types. Each gun usually has about two different firing modes.
Reaver Titans - Larger than the Warhound Titan, generally equipped with a Close-combat arm as well as an Apocalypse Missile Launcher on top, as well as the other arm being another ranged weapon. These are more powerful than the Warhound Titans. I'd estimate it could easily destroy anything in its' path.
Imperator Titan - again, a larger, mor powerful titan.
Emperor Class Battle Titan - Emperor Titans are immense, mobile fortresses, mounting veritable arsenals of weaponry, protected by void shield generators and armour so thick an Emperor Titan would not be out of place on a planetary defence installation. Emperor Titans are among the largest mobile battle units that can be deployed on a planet's surface. It forms a vital role, employed against the most formidable and overtly powerful enemies, providing massive, destructive and directed power.
The titans are quite a bit smaller than you thing. The warlord which is between the Reaver and the Imperator is only about 100 meters tall. The Warhound is probably the same height as an AT-AT and a lot less bulky. Also the Imperator is one of the Emperor class titans
Moving on to the Imperial Navy, Most of the Standard ships employed in the Imperial Navy carry weaponry that could easily rival that of the Death Star, and they can Fire it more frequently too. Hell, even Thunderhawk Gunships carry Death-Star type Lasers...
This is just not true. To accomplish what the Death star did in a single shot Night Haunter needed 50 capital clash ships to accomplish when he blew up his own home world. The Imperiums method of destroying planets is vastly different to that of the Empires and still needs capital ships to do.
The Imperium leaves a planet shaped lump of dead rock, the death star leavs and asteroid field.
Most Imperial Battleships range in the 8KM size from Prow to Stern. And carry an immense amount of firepower, as well as smaller attack craft that can engage enemy capital ships out of range for the ships main weapon batteries. (Remember, Capital Ships in 40K are considerably larger than those in Star Wars)
Whilst there is a lot of firepower on the Imperiums ships a hell of a lot of it is very low technology Solid shot devices. Not everything is the high powered laser and turbo laser batteries you have with the empire.
With the exception of the space marines and the fleets directly attached to them the Imperium has the empire out matched in quantity but it loses out a hell of a lot on the quality front.
The Empire is also going to have a lot easier time making good any technical loses that they have. Remember the Imperium has forgotten how to make a lot of their more fancy kit. If a Titan is destroyed they are going to find it very hard to replace it if they can't repair it. Where as the Empire can just crank out AT-AT's and Star Destroyers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Empire is also going to have a lot easier time making good any technical loses that they have. Remember the Imperium has forgotten how to make a lot of their more fancy kit. If a Titan is destroyed they are going to find it very hard to replace it if they can't repair it. Where as the Empire can just crank out AT-AT's and Star Destroyers.
Except you're forgetting, an Alpha level Psyker could just wave his hand and destroy the Death Star... I don't think those are mass produced, it took the Empire what, 20 or so years to get the first one FULLY operational? The 2nd one was a Rush job just to get the laser online?
Also, the Size comparison of an AT-AT would disagree with the Size comparison of a Warhound Titan. Look at the size of a human compared to that of an AT-AT, I'd compare the size of the body of an ATAT to that of a Rhino Transport, Warhounds still have the ATAT beat in the size department, plus, they're better shielded than ATATs... Void Shields are a lot more powerful than regular shields...
No matter what, the Imperium still wins based on the numbers alone. Plus, you're forgetting about Virus Bombs, Psykers (there's a lot of them in the imperium... All Grey Knights are inherantly Psychic, remember, Brotherhood of Psykers.) Also, titan weapons make ATAT weapons look like child's play...
Due to the excellent points people are making I've edited the OP so that:
"This takes place before Palpatine's death and after the Horus Heresy. The two Galaxies(the Milky Way and the Star Wars Galaxy) are colliding."
Except that the Imperium is spread across MILLIONS of planets, and Holy Terra is the most heavily protected Planet in the Imperium, The Imperium Sacrifices thousands of souls a day to feed the emperor's psychic abilites so he can protect terra from the forces of Chaos, he's able to keep 4 Chaos Gods at bay as well as power the Astronomicon. even in his Comatose state, the Emperor Of Mankind shows power of Immense magnitude.
Considering that the Birth of one of the Chaos Gods allowed it to Consume about 75% of an entire Species... Which, they were all psychic too.
Ok, I looked it up, ATAT's are 22 meters tall, Warhounds are taller at 25 meters tall, but seriously, I'd give the shield and weapons edge to the Warhound in that fight. Plus, they're usually deployed in groups of 5 or 10 depending on the battle. Also, don't forget, Baneblade variants often carry Weaponry capable of destroying titans, as flimsy as the ATAT is, I'd say one shot would take it out.
I have to wonder what a unit of Grey Knights would do to Force Practitioners...
Seriously, the Empire basically gets two force practitioners, while The Imperium has armies of psykers.
With that in mind, I guess there isn't much reason for the Imperium not to send half the Grey Knights against Vader, and the other half against Palpatine.
That said, I don't know that the fight will necessarily be as one-sided as some have made it out to be.
It has been pointed out that the Imperium isn't so hot at replacing lost weapons of war, and even much of their repair is more based on superstition than science. If I understand my 40k correctly, "innovations" in the Imperium's tech is largely based on finding/recovering templates for new war machines. Regardless, I do think the Empire has an edge, in terms of production capacity/ability to innovate. Is it enough to out-match the Imperium? I doubt it highly, but they do have a strong edge, at least in this one area.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UBW Sharuum BR Olivia Voldaren UR Jhoira URG Riku U Vendilion Clique
I have to wonder what a unit of Grey Knights would do to Force Practitioners...
Seriously, the Empire basically gets two force practitioners, while The Imperium has armies of psykers.
With that in mind, I guess there isn't much reason for the Imperium not to send half the Grey Knights against Vader, and the other half against Palpatine.
That said, I don't know that the fight will necessarily be as one-sided as some have made it out to be.
It has been pointed out that the Imperium isn't so hot at replacing lost weapons of war, and even much of their repair is more based on superstition than science. If I understand my 40k correctly, "innovations" in the Imperium's tech is largely based on finding/recovering templates for new war machines. Regardless, I do think the Empire has an edge, in terms of production capacity/ability to innovate. Is it enough to out-match the Imperium? I doubt it highly, but they do have a strong edge, at least in this one area.
If 100 Grey Knights were able to survive and take on Angron (in Daemonform) and his Bloodthirster bodyguards, then Vader/Sidious don't stand a chance.
Also, the Inquisition have been known to use the powers of Chaos on the battlefield, they enslave daemons and etc, and use those powers against their enemies.
I mean, The Grey Knights are known for some very heretical stuff, except they can get away with it because they're Inquisition.
Personally, i'd love to see a Fight between The Tyranid Hive Fleets and the Empire, lol. That's one dead empire, lol.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Where does the power level of a Death Star fit in?
Does the Imperium have a similar weapon?
They don't. Exterminatus works by rendering the target planet lifeless even on a cellular level and even then it has been known to fail at times, Istvaan 3 and against Tyranids or by rearranging the continental masses. The Death star turns the planet into a new asteroid field.
The only things that can come close are Activated Blackstone Fortresses and Abbadon's Planet killer both of which are very firmly under Abbadon's control.
If 100 Grey Knights were able to survive and take on Angron (in Daemonform) and his Bloodthirster bodyguards, then Vader/Sidious don't stand a chance.
Except they didn't survive. True 100 did assault Angron but there were something like 95% causualties and the warpstorms were weakening so Angron was not at full power.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Something to keep in mind is that your "average 40k guardsman" isn't anything close to your average human.
They may not be much when compared to a Space Marine, but the average guardsman is a 2m tall (roughly the size of a wookie - a tidbit I remember from a Gaunt's Ghost novel) zealous trained killer with equipment roughly as effective as anything the Galactic Empire's infantry has available with probably hundrends of times the numbers.
Even without the Astartes, I think the Imperium takes this one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Something to keep in mind is that your "average 40k guardsman" isn't anything close to your average human.
They may not be much when compared to a Space Marine, but the average guardsman is a 2m tall (roughly the size of a wookie - a tidbit I remember from a Gaunt's Ghost novel) zealous trained killer with equipment roughly as effective as anything the Galactic Empire's infantry has available with probably hundrends of times the numbers.
Even without the Astartes, I think the Imperium takes this one.
The size of the Imperial guard is such that any statements about the 'average' guardsman are utterly worthless other than to say they are the average human. Especially your assertion about height considering that Marines are 2 meters tall out of armour and they still dwarf the men and women of the Imperial guard.
In terms of amour as well the basic guardsman does not have anywhere near the protection of a storm trooper, with only the elite stormtroopers getting more than a flak vest/great coat.
The Imperium's advantage is soley in numbers which is actually a hindrance as they are not designed to be used on mass as a combined arms force unlike the Empire.
Heck moving back from the actual military side of things the Imperium's biggest problem is going to be getting over is own byzantine bureaucracy. Where as each Star destroyer has its own ground troops consisting of both infantry, armour and air support so able to operate largely independently of each other.
The Imperium is exactly the opposite with the Fleet, Imperial guard, Astartes and Mechanicum each being massive organisations that are completely separate with their own command structures that often operate at cross purposes to each other. Even with out taking the Astartes Legendary independence into account getting all branches of the military to operate together is going to incredibly difficult.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Omg, please the plague father. Your intention are good. You are rooting for the good team. Your statistics are more off than a stormtrooper shooting.
You vastly overestimate psykers. Sure they are hugely powerful, they are nowhere near riping a deathstar apart. Also the imperium of man never blew up a planet that i can remember. They destroy the outer layer. Even vs the nids, they just bombard it from orbit.
The emperor was not 15 feet tall, you are just using feels good logic. Just cause something feels good or sounds good, it doesnt make it true.
I think the closest approx to the death star would be nova cannons. Those things are masssiiiiiive. Might not be a strong, but there are waaaaayyy more than there are desthstars.
Also the angron thing. 100 of the grey knight elite sacrificed their lives to banish angron to the warp for 100 years and 1 day.
There is no mention of 10 space marine can take on a planet. Its 10 a continent. Which is stupid imho. They may be strong but they are not stronger than a tank each. Meaning being able to take on 10 tanks should make you able to take on a tactical squad. You try to make them sound all powerful, but i think a normal at at would be able to take on a dreadnought.
As far as a psycher pulling a galaxy into the warp: wtf? The 40k universe is known for only being on one galaxy, because other galaxies are way too far to ever be influenced by them at this time. Warp storms can pull solar systems or planets in them, but a galaxy is so far out of reach. If it wasnt, youd get the 1000 suns to win,they have the most psykers of any chaos group and would love for that to happen.
And even if alpha level psykers could rip a battletank in two or reach the minds of a small city (im actually using info from the books) they put themselves at incredible risk doing those because of the warp entities.
The size of the Imperial guard is such that any statements about the 'average' guardsman are utterly worthless other than to say they are the average human. Especially your assertion about height considering that Marines are 2 meters tall out of armour and they still dwarf the men and women of the Imperial guard.
In terms of amour as well the basic guardsman does not have anywhere near the protection of a storm trooper, with only the elite stormtroopers getting more than a flak vest/great coat.
The Imperium's advantage is soley in numbers which is actually a hindrance as they are not designed to be used on mass as a combined arms force unlike the Empire.
Heck moving back from the actual military side of things the Imperium's biggest problem is going to be getting over is own byzantine bureaucracy. Where as each Star destroyer has its own ground troops consisting of both infantry, armour and air support so able to operate largely independently of each other.
The Imperium is exactly the opposite with the Fleet, Imperial guard, Astartes and Mechanicum each being massive organisations that are completely separate with their own command structures that often operate at cross purposes to each other. Even with out taking the Astartes Legendary independence into account getting all branches of the military to operate together is going to incredibly difficult.
I know there's no real canon when it comes to 40k because every author seems to take liberties with everything without any regard to other work, but the numbers I've seen suggest that the average guardsman is a bit under 7' tall, the average Astartes is a little over 8' in armor, and the Primarchs were roughly 9' - which makes each about a head taller than the other and that feels about right to me.
Regarding the other stuff, I know Stormtroopers are used almost exclusively in the movies and stories, but I think their role is suppose to be more ship-to-ship fighting and special actions and that they are the special forces of the Empire, not their regular infantry. That being said, Stormtrooper armor isn't exactly anything to write home about and is probably not any more effective than flak armor - maybe carapace armor.
A for the different branches not working together, they may be independent, but when on a war footing they normally choose a single leader to command the separate elements, so I don't think you can count on the Imperium constantly ****ing up as a valid strategy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Regarding the other stuff, I know Stormtroopers are used almost exclusively in the movies and stories, but I think their role is suppose to be more ship-to-ship fighting and special actions and that they are the special forces of the Empire, not their regular infantry. That being said, Stormtrooper armor isn't exactly anything to write home about and is probably not any more effective than flak armor - maybe carapace armor.
A for the different branches not working together, they may be independent, but when on a war footing they normally choose a single leader to command the separate elements, so I don't think you can count on the Imperium constantly ****ing up as a valid strategy.
Yep, and if I'm not mistaken we saw exactly this during the 13th Black Crusade campaign. Not to mention, the Empire isn't always known for tactical brilliance (Death Star II shields lightly defended, overwhelmed by spear-wielding teddy bears).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UBW Sharuum BR Olivia Voldaren UR Jhoira URG Riku U Vendilion Clique
There is no mention of 10 space marine can take on a planet. Its 10 a continent. Which is stupid imho. They may be strong but they are not stronger than a tank each. Meaning being able to take on 10 tanks should make you able to take on a tactical squad. You try to make them sound all powerful, but i think a normal at at would be able to take on a dreadnought.
An AT-AT would not be able to take on a Dreadnought... I'd say roughly the AT-AT's ranged weapons are Strength 5 at best, i'm being generous and calling snow speeders Armor 11, because at best, the AT-AT's only ever glanced the speeders, maybe got a "slight" penetrating hit on them, Whereas Dreadnoughts carry much more devastating firepower. Twin-linked Las-Cannon? Strength 9 AP2, more than enough to get through an At-AT's armor, also, in a Dreadnought came into close combat with an AT-AT, Strength 10 Dreadnought Close Combat weapon, standard issue on all Dreadnoughts. the legs of an AT-AT are like tissue paper compared to that.
As far as a psycher pulling a galaxy into the warp: wtf? The 40k universe is known for only being on one galaxy, because other galaxies are way too far to ever be influenced by them at this time. Warp storms can pull solar systems or planets in them, but a galaxy is so far out of reach. If it wasnt, youd get the 1000 suns to win,they have the most psykers of any chaos group and would love for that to happen.
And even if alpha level psykers could rip a battletank in two or reach the minds of a small city (im actually using info from the books) they put themselves at incredible risk doing those because of the warp entities.
Yeah, I know they put themselves at risk, but still, they could do it even if it meant they'd die from it. You think a Librarian would care if he had to die to ensure victory? Even in "Storm of Iron" you had a Librarian literally sacrificing himself to stop a Bloodthirster. Which, Ironically, was summoned from the anger and hatred of a female Guardsman who slaughtered her Captor and stole his possessed armor.
My point, was to never underestimate what Psykers can do. Their potential is limitless.
Also, think about how many Psyker Characters in 40K there seem to be, so many of them that can do (or have done) so many incredible things.
Yep, and if I'm not mistaken we saw exactly this during the 13th Black Crusade campaign. Not to mention, the Empire isn't always known for tactical brilliance (Death Star II shields lightly defended, overwhelmed by spear-wielding teddy bears).
I'm sorry, I quoted this because of the Teddy bears comment, I almost fell out of my chair laughing at the line "Spear-wielding Teddy Bears"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
there's one advantage that needs to be considered from the empire's side: strategic mobility.
From what I remember of 40k background, warp travel is a little on the slow side. And unpredictable to boot. Ships can take months or even sometimes years to get from one star system to another.
Contrast this to star wars where interstellar travel is fast and relatively risk-free.
The imperium may have a considerable logistical advantage in terms of numbers and overall firepower, but the empire will be able to dance around them on a strategic scale.
I still think it goes to the IOM in the long run, but the empire will be able to bloody their nose considerably if they use the mobility advantage.
But, you're not accounting for Warp-storms that occaisionally flare up in the Material Universe, Flying through one is like asking to die... The simple fact is no one here has really mentioned something implausible that was stated in the OP, "All enemies defeated" ...The very nature of the 40K universe is one where you must accept the fact that, you cannot defeat the powers of Chaos...
While for the sake of this exercise, we can assume that the Traitor Legions have been defeated, Chaos always lingers in the warp, ready to lash out at any time. For this we must assume that the only remaining force left besides the Imperium from the 40K universe, is the forces of Chaos Daemons. They don't die, once their material form is destroyed, they simply return to the warp, to come back at any time.
With the sudden addition of such a great number of new souls, souls whose imaginations can run wild as the universes meld together, it's likely to theorize that the Powers of Chaos would devour many of the new souls available to them.
I realize that this is Imperium vs. Empire, but still, You can't kill that which is eternal.
Either way, I'm still putting my money on the Imperium, simply because of the sheer number of Space Marine Chapters that there are.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Either way, I'm still putting my money on the Imperium, simply because of the sheer number of Space Marine Chapters that there are.
At any one time there is only roughly 1'000 space marine chapters each with roughly 1'000 men in each. Depending on when in the 41st millennium it is set a lot are going to be at a very reduced strength.
And depsite what you suggested earlier it is a very rare occurrence for all forces to pull the same direction. The only reason it appears to work for events like the 13th black crusade and the 3rd War of Armageddon is so it is easy for the results to be tabulated and work out the outcomes.
Leaving aside the massive world wide campaigns we had influence on about the only thing that is keeping the Imperium in one piece is inertia and its sheer size.
You might also want to have a rethink on your AT-AT arguments again. They are largely imperivous to most man portable guns and the weaponary held on the speeders. It took Luke's Lightsaber to get through the armour and that was only a hatch. Every other AT-AT was brought down by cables and then firing directly into the joints of the neck.
And again the Empire has a production line of AT-AT's and star destroyers. Destroy the chasis and that dreadnought can't be replaced.
Also the Librarian in Storm of Iron Sacrificed himself attempting to banish a Bloodthirster of Khorne. The Daemon got bored and wandered off to realms new of its own volition after eating the Librarians soul as a light snack.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Imperium takes this easily: they've been fighting the entire galaxy for tens of thousands of years for crying out loud
I like the Galactic Empire a lot more but they wouldn't stand a chance
Based on what we know of the Emperor he would wipe the floor with Palpatine
This is set after the Horus heresy so the Emperor of Mankind is installed into the golden throne and is not going anywhere. Not to mention after being stuck there for 10 millennium his psyche is more than a little frayed. About the only thing that he can be relied on to do is power the Astronomicon.
If the fighting acutally reaches Terra he is pretty much screwed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Emperor of Mankind
The founder of the Imperium, an enigmatic and mysterious persona known only as "the Emperor" or "Emperor of Mankind", may or may not be of normal human origin; he is an ancient being of immeasurable psychic power, god-like charisma, vast knowledge, and millennia-long experience. While his powers are often greatly exaggerated by his many followers, he is one of the the strongest psykers his Galaxy.
Uniting all of mankind under his banner he created a race of super-soilders known as the Space Marines and proceeded to almost conquer all of the Milk Way. He was betrayed by his trusted Primarch Horus Lupercal and mortally wounded.
Emperor Palpatine
Darth Sidious was one of the last Sith under Darth Bane's Sith Order. As a result of Rule of Two, which established that the apprentice of a Dark Lord of the Sith must supersede the master in power, Sidious had accumulated, effectively, 1000 years of hidden study of the dark side from the two-Sith rule lineage and was, as a result, one of the most powerful Force practitioners in the history of the galaxy.
Sideous used unmeasurable amounts of force manipulation to propel him in political office. Once there he created the beast known as the Empire. Billions died at the hands of (or direct influence) Palpatine. He was also responsible for turning Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side.
The Imperium of Man vs The Galactic Empire
This is not just a battle between these two powerful telepaths, but also the empires under their command. Using all of the resources at their disposal who would win, not this battle, but this war?
Maybe if this was just The Empire Vs. The Imperial Guard than maybe, possibly the Empire wins.
But when you throw in the Ultra Marines, then The Empire just gets crushed.
There's hundreds of billions of Imperial Guard that are bred specifically for war everyday.
That would make for an ultra violent bloodbath of clones, machinery and Imperial Guardsmen strewn across intergalactic battlefields.
But the second you throw in Power Armored Super Soldiers, where a troupe of 10 is considered good enough to overtake an entire planet? Then yeah, even the powers of the Force won't be able to stop a single chapter from running roughshod over the capital.
I don't even want to think about it if we consider throwing in Terminator armor and War Machines in this. That's just not fair.
When it comes into a direct conflict of the Emperors taking on each other in psychic combat? Well that's also interesting considering what Palpatine can do, and the fact that Palpatine is mobile while the other guy is forced to be on a Golden Throne.
But considering he needs hundreds of thousands of souls fed to him on a daily basis to feed his psychic powers that are used specifically to battle Gods of chaos, then I don't think Palpatine even gets close enough to try and disable his life force.
Let's look at some of the facts.
Psykers are a lot more powerful in theory than Jedi/Sith, they have to reach into the Warp, the immaterium, and literally touch the entities inside in order to physically manifest awesome powers in the physical realm. This could be as simple as Lightning protruding from their hands or as complex as moving entire galaxies into the warp.
The Emperor of Man - Father of the Primarchs (demigods of immeasurable power and stature) He's over 10-15 ft. tall, the Strongest Psyker in the galaxy, literally gave birth to one of the strongest military powers in the 40K universe. Palpatine is merely a slave compared to Him.
Ground Forces -
Imperium - Space Marines - The Military Scalpel of the Imperium, genetically modifed, physically enhanced, towering super soldiers. Wearing mighty suits of powered armour that is generally very thick compared to conventional armor. Wielding the mightiest weapons ranging from the Holy Bolter to the mighty Las-Cannon. (Think of bolter shells as giant grenade type bullets, they hit their target and explode from within.)
Space Marine Vehicles - Land Speeders, Rhino Armoured Transport, Whirlwind missile tank, Predator Battle Tank, The Mighty Land Raider, (the strongest vehicle armor in the game is Armor 14, and the Land Raider is 14 all the way around.) Thunderhawk Gunships, etc, there's a lot of Space Marine vehicles.
Oops, I forgot about Dreadnoughts. Massive, Hulking machines in which heavily wounded Space Marines are put into to Pilot to keep fighting for the Chapter. Even in death, they serve the Emperor's will.
Weapons - Boltgun (Bolter), Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Varying Missile Launchers, Las Cannon, Autocannon.
Imperial Guard - If the space marines are the Scalpel, then the Imperial Guard are the might Hammer of the Imperium. Massive legions of Guardsmen, Massive Armored Regiments, Total control of the Imperial Fleets/Navy, oh, and Allied help of the Titan Legions.
Guardsmen are kinda like the average day soldier, except with better guns and better tanks.
I'm not an expert on the Guard, but they do have Access to the Baneblade Battle Tank, and all the variations on that, Baneblade Tanks are generally Titan Destroyers... And their Guns usually have a strength value of D for "Destroyer" meaning no contemporary Armor is a match for the weapons strength.
Legio Titanica - The Titan Legions are quite a powerful force also. A simple Warhound Titan would probably be about twice the size of an AT-AT, and generally twice as powerful as well. Each Titan is equipped with Void Shields to nullify incoming fire from long-range targets. Each of the Titans arms are equipped with a ranged weapon, each of varying strength and varying fire-types. Each gun usually has about two different firing modes.
Reaver Titans - Larger than the Warhound Titan, generally equipped with a Close-combat arm as well as an Apocalypse Missile Launcher on top, as well as the other arm being another ranged weapon. These are more powerful than the Warhound Titans. I'd estimate it could easily destroy anything in its' path.
Imperator Titan - again, a larger, mor powerful titan.
Emperor Class Battle Titan - Emperor Titans are immense, mobile fortresses, mounting veritable arsenals of weaponry, protected by void shield generators and armour so thick an Emperor Titan would not be out of place on a planetary defence installation. Emperor Titans are among the largest mobile battle units that can be deployed on a planet's surface. It forms a vital role, employed against the most formidable and overtly powerful enemies, providing massive, destructive and directed power.
Moving on to the Imperial Navy, Most of the Standard ships employed in the Imperial Navy carry weaponry that could easily rival that of the Death Star, and they can Fire it more frequently too. Hell, even Thunderhawk Gunships carry Death-Star type Lasers...
Most Imperial Battleships range in the 8KM size from Prow to Stern. And carry an immense amount of firepower, as well as smaller attack craft that can engage enemy capital ships out of range for the ships main weapon batteries. (Remember, Capital Ships in 40K are considerably larger than those in Star Wars)
Basically put, The Empire from star wars is SO out matched, it'd be best for them to not even TRY to fight the imperium...
Truth be told, I was actually going to make my own thread like this, but didn't have the time to, lol
EDIT: Did someone actually vote for star wars? Even though they're incredibly outmatched?
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
Don't look at me. I normally vote for the underdog, but only if I believe that the underdog has a conceivable chance of winning. In this case, Palpatine and his forces lose handily.... they just can't win.
I have to thank my best friend for info dumping all that stuff about the Emperor of Mankind on me, otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to vote for him.
How well do you do against one?
Yeah, I think if I posted a size comparison between the Emperor and palpatine, people wouldn't hesitate to vote for the Imperium. Plus, considering a Space Marine is easily twice as tall and wide as a normal stormtrooper, lol... And the Guns.... hee hee, there's a Reason I play 40K over Star Wars...:D
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I disagree. Boba Fett would lose. If you can conquer the galaxy with 10 space marines, what do you think they'd do to Fett?
Fett hasn't fought against Demigods before, and that's exactly how the 10 Primarchs compare in power. They're 15 foot tall demigods able to conquer the galaxy by themselves....
Plus, The Imperium has a greater number of Soldiers. Sure, they don't have as many space marines, but seriously, what would you do against 8 BILLION Guardsmen? and that's just on one battlefield...
The Jedi/Sith are nothing compared to Alpha level Psykers, with a wave of a psyker's hand, he could tear the death star to shreds...
Plus, a Normal battleship for the imperial nacy is about the size of 12 star destroyers put together, and has the equivalent firepower to crack planets...
Plus, the Void Shields on the Imperial Navy are meant to protect it while it travels in the Warp, the immaterium, the realm of Chaos... Obviously more powerful than anything in the Star Wars universe.
40K has a numbers, and technological advantage against Star Wars...
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
The titans are quite a bit smaller than you thing. The warlord which is between the Reaver and the Imperator is only about 100 meters tall. The Warhound is probably the same height as an AT-AT and a lot less bulky. Also the Imperator is one of the Emperor class titans
This is just not true. To accomplish what the Death star did in a single shot Night Haunter needed 50 capital clash ships to accomplish when he blew up his own home world. The Imperiums method of destroying planets is vastly different to that of the Empires and still needs capital ships to do.
The Imperium leaves a planet shaped lump of dead rock, the death star leavs and asteroid field.
Whilst there is a lot of firepower on the Imperiums ships a hell of a lot of it is very low technology Solid shot devices. Not everything is the high powered laser and turbo laser batteries you have with the empire.
With the exception of the space marines and the fleets directly attached to them the Imperium has the empire out matched in quantity but it loses out a hell of a lot on the quality front.
The Empire is also going to have a lot easier time making good any technical loses that they have. Remember the Imperium has forgotten how to make a lot of their more fancy kit. If a Titan is destroyed they are going to find it very hard to replace it if they can't repair it. Where as the Empire can just crank out AT-AT's and Star Destroyers.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Except you're forgetting, an Alpha level Psyker could just wave his hand and destroy the Death Star... I don't think those are mass produced, it took the Empire what, 20 or so years to get the first one FULLY operational? The 2nd one was a Rush job just to get the laser online?
Also, the Size comparison of an AT-AT would disagree with the Size comparison of a Warhound Titan. Look at the size of a human compared to that of an AT-AT, I'd compare the size of the body of an ATAT to that of a Rhino Transport, Warhounds still have the ATAT beat in the size department, plus, they're better shielded than ATATs... Void Shields are a lot more powerful than regular shields...
No matter what, the Imperium still wins based on the numbers alone. Plus, you're forgetting about Virus Bombs, Psykers (there's a lot of them in the imperium... All Grey Knights are inherantly Psychic, remember, Brotherhood of Psykers.) Also, titan weapons make ATAT weapons look like child's play...
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
Does the Imperium have a similar weapon?
"This takes place before Palpatine's death and after the Horus Heresy. The two Galaxies(the Milky Way and the Star Wars Galaxy) are colliding."
Except that the Imperium is spread across MILLIONS of planets, and Holy Terra is the most heavily protected Planet in the Imperium, The Imperium Sacrifices thousands of souls a day to feed the emperor's psychic abilites so he can protect terra from the forces of Chaos, he's able to keep 4 Chaos Gods at bay as well as power the Astronomicon. even in his Comatose state, the Emperor Of Mankind shows power of Immense magnitude.
Considering that the Birth of one of the Chaos Gods allowed it to Consume about 75% of an entire Species... Which, they were all psychic too.
Ok, I looked it up, ATAT's are 22 meters tall, Warhounds are taller at 25 meters tall, but seriously, I'd give the shield and weapons edge to the Warhound in that fight. Plus, they're usually deployed in groups of 5 or 10 depending on the battle. Also, don't forget, Baneblade variants often carry Weaponry capable of destroying titans, as flimsy as the ATAT is, I'd say one shot would take it out.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
Seriously, the Empire basically gets two force practitioners, while The Imperium has armies of psykers.
With that in mind, I guess there isn't much reason for the Imperium not to send half the Grey Knights against Vader, and the other half against Palpatine.
That said, I don't know that the fight will necessarily be as one-sided as some have made it out to be.
It has been pointed out that the Imperium isn't so hot at replacing lost weapons of war, and even much of their repair is more based on superstition than science. If I understand my 40k correctly, "innovations" in the Imperium's tech is largely based on finding/recovering templates for new war machines. Regardless, I do think the Empire has an edge, in terms of production capacity/ability to innovate. Is it enough to out-match the Imperium? I doubt it highly, but they do have a strong edge, at least in this one area.
UBW Sharuum
BR Olivia Voldaren
UR Jhoira
URG Riku
U Vendilion Clique
If 100 Grey Knights were able to survive and take on Angron (in Daemonform) and his Bloodthirster bodyguards, then Vader/Sidious don't stand a chance.
Also, the Inquisition have been known to use the powers of Chaos on the battlefield, they enslave daemons and etc, and use those powers against their enemies.
I mean, The Grey Knights are known for some very heretical stuff, except they can get away with it because they're Inquisition.
Personally, i'd love to see a Fight between The Tyranid Hive Fleets and the Empire, lol. That's one dead empire, lol.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
They don't. Exterminatus works by rendering the target planet lifeless even on a cellular level and even then it has been known to fail at times, Istvaan 3 and against Tyranids or by rearranging the continental masses. The Death star turns the planet into a new asteroid field.
The only things that can come close are Activated Blackstone Fortresses and Abbadon's Planet killer both of which are very firmly under Abbadon's control.
Except they didn't survive. True 100 did assault Angron but there were something like 95% causualties and the warpstorms were weakening so Angron was not at full power.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
They may not be much when compared to a Space Marine, but the average guardsman is a 2m tall (roughly the size of a wookie - a tidbit I remember from a Gaunt's Ghost novel) zealous trained killer with equipment roughly as effective as anything the Galactic Empire's infantry has available with probably hundrends of times the numbers.
Even without the Astartes, I think the Imperium takes this one.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
The size of the Imperial guard is such that any statements about the 'average' guardsman are utterly worthless other than to say they are the average human. Especially your assertion about height considering that Marines are 2 meters tall out of armour and they still dwarf the men and women of the Imperial guard.
In terms of amour as well the basic guardsman does not have anywhere near the protection of a storm trooper, with only the elite stormtroopers getting more than a flak vest/great coat.
The Imperium's advantage is soley in numbers which is actually a hindrance as they are not designed to be used on mass as a combined arms force unlike the Empire.
Heck moving back from the actual military side of things the Imperium's biggest problem is going to be getting over is own byzantine bureaucracy. Where as each Star destroyer has its own ground troops consisting of both infantry, armour and air support so able to operate largely independently of each other.
The Imperium is exactly the opposite with the Fleet, Imperial guard, Astartes and Mechanicum each being massive organisations that are completely separate with their own command structures that often operate at cross purposes to each other. Even with out taking the Astartes Legendary independence into account getting all branches of the military to operate together is going to incredibly difficult.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
You vastly overestimate psykers. Sure they are hugely powerful, they are nowhere near riping a deathstar apart. Also the imperium of man never blew up a planet that i can remember. They destroy the outer layer. Even vs the nids, they just bombard it from orbit.
The emperor was not 15 feet tall, you are just using feels good logic. Just cause something feels good or sounds good, it doesnt make it true.
I think the closest approx to the death star would be nova cannons. Those things are masssiiiiiive. Might not be a strong, but there are waaaaayyy more than there are desthstars.
Also the angron thing. 100 of the grey knight elite sacrificed their lives to banish angron to the warp for 100 years and 1 day.
There is no mention of 10 space marine can take on a planet. Its 10 a continent. Which is stupid imho. They may be strong but they are not stronger than a tank each. Meaning being able to take on 10 tanks should make you able to take on a tactical squad. You try to make them sound all powerful, but i think a normal at at would be able to take on a dreadnought.
As far as a psycher pulling a galaxy into the warp: wtf? The 40k universe is known for only being on one galaxy, because other galaxies are way too far to ever be influenced by them at this time. Warp storms can pull solar systems or planets in them, but a galaxy is so far out of reach. If it wasnt, youd get the 1000 suns to win,they have the most psykers of any chaos group and would love for that to happen.
And even if alpha level psykers could rip a battletank in two or reach the minds of a small city (im actually using info from the books) they put themselves at incredible risk doing those because of the warp entities.
I know there's no real canon when it comes to 40k because every author seems to take liberties with everything without any regard to other work, but the numbers I've seen suggest that the average guardsman is a bit under 7' tall, the average Astartes is a little over 8' in armor, and the Primarchs were roughly 9' - which makes each about a head taller than the other and that feels about right to me.
Regarding the other stuff, I know Stormtroopers are used almost exclusively in the movies and stories, but I think their role is suppose to be more ship-to-ship fighting and special actions and that they are the special forces of the Empire, not their regular infantry. That being said, Stormtrooper armor isn't exactly anything to write home about and is probably not any more effective than flak armor - maybe carapace armor.
A for the different branches not working together, they may be independent, but when on a war footing they normally choose a single leader to command the separate elements, so I don't think you can count on the Imperium constantly ****ing up as a valid strategy.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Seems to jive with this:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army
The article talks about how Storm Troopers reinforced the Imperial Army, so they don't sound like rank-and-file troops.
Yep, and if I'm not mistaken we saw exactly this during the 13th Black Crusade campaign. Not to mention, the Empire isn't always known for tactical brilliance (Death Star II shields lightly defended, overwhelmed by spear-wielding teddy bears).
UBW Sharuum
BR Olivia Voldaren
UR Jhoira
URG Riku
U Vendilion Clique
An AT-AT would not be able to take on a Dreadnought... I'd say roughly the AT-AT's ranged weapons are Strength 5 at best, i'm being generous and calling snow speeders Armor 11, because at best, the AT-AT's only ever glanced the speeders, maybe got a "slight" penetrating hit on them, Whereas Dreadnoughts carry much more devastating firepower. Twin-linked Las-Cannon? Strength 9 AP2, more than enough to get through an At-AT's armor, also, in a Dreadnought came into close combat with an AT-AT, Strength 10 Dreadnought Close Combat weapon, standard issue on all Dreadnoughts. the legs of an AT-AT are like tissue paper compared to that.
Yeah, I know they put themselves at risk, but still, they could do it even if it meant they'd die from it. You think a Librarian would care if he had to die to ensure victory? Even in "Storm of Iron" you had a Librarian literally sacrificing himself to stop a Bloodthirster. Which, Ironically, was summoned from the anger and hatred of a female Guardsman who slaughtered her Captor and stole his possessed armor.
My point, was to never underestimate what Psykers can do. Their potential is limitless.
Also, think about how many Psyker Characters in 40K there seem to be, so many of them that can do (or have done) so many incredible things.
I'm sorry, I quoted this because of the Teddy bears comment, I almost fell out of my chair laughing at the line "Spear-wielding Teddy Bears"
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
But, you're not accounting for Warp-storms that occaisionally flare up in the Material Universe, Flying through one is like asking to die... The simple fact is no one here has really mentioned something implausible that was stated in the OP, "All enemies defeated" ...The very nature of the 40K universe is one where you must accept the fact that, you cannot defeat the powers of Chaos...
While for the sake of this exercise, we can assume that the Traitor Legions have been defeated, Chaos always lingers in the warp, ready to lash out at any time. For this we must assume that the only remaining force left besides the Imperium from the 40K universe, is the forces of Chaos Daemons. They don't die, once their material form is destroyed, they simply return to the warp, to come back at any time.
With the sudden addition of such a great number of new souls, souls whose imaginations can run wild as the universes meld together, it's likely to theorize that the Powers of Chaos would devour many of the new souls available to them.
I realize that this is Imperium vs. Empire, but still, You can't kill that which is eternal.
Either way, I'm still putting my money on the Imperium, simply because of the sheer number of Space Marine Chapters that there are.
[W]FREE STONEFORGE MYSTIC and JACE THE MINDSCULPTOR[/W]
Please Visit my Alterations Page!
My Alters Sales Thread
Want a FREE Playset of Foil Baneslayer Angels?!?:
I like the Galactic Empire a lot more but they wouldn't stand a chance
Based on what we know of the Emperor he would wipe the floor with Palpatine
At any one time there is only roughly 1'000 space marine chapters each with roughly 1'000 men in each. Depending on when in the 41st millennium it is set a lot are going to be at a very reduced strength.
And depsite what you suggested earlier it is a very rare occurrence for all forces to pull the same direction. The only reason it appears to work for events like the 13th black crusade and the 3rd War of Armageddon is so it is easy for the results to be tabulated and work out the outcomes.
Leaving aside the massive world wide campaigns we had influence on about the only thing that is keeping the Imperium in one piece is inertia and its sheer size.
You might also want to have a rethink on your AT-AT arguments again. They are largely imperivous to most man portable guns and the weaponary held on the speeders. It took Luke's Lightsaber to get through the armour and that was only a hatch. Every other AT-AT was brought down by cables and then firing directly into the joints of the neck.
And again the Empire has a production line of AT-AT's and star destroyers. Destroy the chasis and that dreadnought can't be replaced.
Also the Librarian in Storm of Iron Sacrificed himself attempting to banish a Bloodthirster of Khorne. The Daemon got bored and wandered off to realms new of its own volition after eating the Librarians soul as a light snack.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
This is set after the Horus heresy so the Emperor of Mankind is installed into the golden throne and is not going anywhere. Not to mention after being stuck there for 10 millennium his psyche is more than a little frayed. About the only thing that he can be relied on to do is power the Astronomicon.
If the fighting acutally reaches Terra he is pretty much screwed.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru