First of all, how has this topic been created already???
Due to a hyperdimensional spacetime quantum transduction infindibulation, the universes of Star Wars and Star Trek merge into one. The inhabitants from each universe view the inhabitants of the universe as hostile and a war between the two formerly-separate universes breaks out.
The Jedi, Sith, Empire, Rebels, etc. join forces against the allied forces of the Federation, Borg, Klingons, Romulans, etc.
Because it would be sooooooo much less interesting, I'm specifying that peace does not prevail. One side wins the war, and the other loses.
Which side wins the war?
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
My money goes to the Federation since ALL of the universe has combine Q= GOD Q=win. Hell even without Q I would give the Borg ALONE a pretty good shot of winning.
Other favors to consider, Sheilds are pretty rare in starwar where as in star trec its extremely common.
In Star Trek TIME TRAVEL is rather common!
Don't get me wrong I love star wars however Star trek its just in another league of power. Yes Star wars has a death star (hell they might even have 2) but I am just going to point at Q, at Borg, At Telepathic races which seem to pop up every 3 epsidoes or so, at the massive amount of wars the federation has undergone (Like Deep space 9, Next generation, basically their entire universe has been in constant flux of war with ever increasingly powerful opponents.
Stright up Star Trek has been airing more seasons and has allowed power Creep to set in nicely. This is like say who would win Vintage Stacks fully powered VS UG maddness.
Well... due to the fact that Q are from the Q Continuum which may or may not be considered the Star Trek universe, I'm disqualifying them on the grounds that that's another universe. Plus, as, draftguy said, that isn't really fair.
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." --Carl Sagan
Borg alone would give Star Wars universe problems.
Can't even rely on Jedi, since alien races with mind-powers are a dime a dozen in ST. Even if you leave out Q, there are a number of other ominiscient/omnipotent races in ST.
SW vs the Federation is a fairer battle, but not SW against the entire ST universe.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Army of Stormtroopers who can't shoot vs. Army of Red shirts who can't not die. SW wins.
Jedi teaming with Sith vs. Federation teaming with Borg? Uhh, you guys know that the Jedi and the Sith have been battling since forever, neither one ever being able to completely exterminate the other, but coming pretty close on both sides. I'm gonna go ahead and say with their powers combined, they are Captain Universe.
As for ST having to deal with mind powers frequently, the Jedi and the Sith are trained not to just rely on the force. They are highly trained in combat, subversion, piloting and, of course the force, among other things. Even if they can't force-suggest some of the ST people, they can use the force as a psuedo-spidey sense, use the force to throw things, use the force to make lightning and use the force to move really really fast. Did I mention lightning? I think I did.
Lastly, the federations massive ships and shields mean little to a jedi/sith infiltration unit. Or Boba Fett. I mean, those guys take down monumentally sized ships with peashooter fighters every damn day! Nearly every tense space battle in the Star Wars movies is little ship vs big ship/spacestation/meteor wurm/effing asteroid field. Yeah, lets see the Enterprise chase Han into that one.
All in all, some of these comparisons might be skewed and I know I don't have my ST facts straight at all, but I'm just a huge SW fans. ST probably kills the Ewoks, Jarjar and the Cantina band, but only because Obi-Wan uses them as a clever/annoying distraction tactic.
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"Beam aboard that photon torpedo to their bridge."
Lack of shields=autoloss to teleportation technology.
How does that work? Is Scotty really that good?
Still, doesn't do much when you have an onslaught of all the tiny ships the rebellion and the empire control. Or the Droids. Or the random bounty hunters. How many PT's can they launch at one time? Also, does the Enterprise have any weaknesses that are Womprat-sized or bigger?
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Star Trek easy. Their tech is waaaaay beyond that of the star wars universe. As others have pointed out there is no teleportation tech in the star wars universe so the hoards of storm troopers and the combat skills of the jedi are a non issue. Also, the star wars ships don't have shields, they have deflectors and that just ain't going to cut it against photon or quantum torpedoes. The star wars universe ships also us lasers as their primary offensive weapon and as one episode of next gen pointed out, lasers won't even make it through a star ship's navigational shields. If you throw in the klingons or the romulans then the star wars people have the added troubles of dealing with cloaking devises (and why the hell don't the borg use cloaks?).
There really isn't anything that the star wars universe can bring to the table that would be a threat to even the federation alone, forget about the whole star trek universe. The star trek guys on the other hand would be able to deal with anything the star wars guys throw at them. They might lose a ship or two to the death star but after that they can just stay on the other side of it pretty easily. Due to the lack of teleporters on the side of the jedi/sith I don't see the force coming into play here at all.
Still, doesn't do much when you have an onslaught of all the tiny ships the rebellion and the empire control. Or the Droids. Or the random bounty hunters. How many PT's can they launch at one time? Also, does the Enterprise have any weaknesses that are Womprat-sized or bigger?
Its not just Scotty, its fairly easy for any transporters operator to do.
As for the hordes of ships, lets use a different example: lets say a modern aircraft carrier and its fighters were sent back to world war 1. Assuming infinite supplies, I would wager the carrier could defeat all the world war 1 navies combined. That's how I feel about ST vs SW.
Ive heard this debated before, and in those debates people smarter than me compared the energy behind SW/ST weapons and shields. I would say that is a pretty important question in this debate. But from what I understand I would agree with sirpsychosexy, that the ships in SW are severely outclassed by ST tech.
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Well, dammit, it was long long ago compared to how many centuries in the future? I wish there was something in the SW universe that could provide examples of what the far future would have been like in a galaxy far, far away would have been like. SW lives in the past, and even thought it's a highly advanced past, it still puts them at a disadvantage against all other true Sci-fi. Hell, now I'm thinking the Firefly universe or the Mass Effect universe probably beats Star Wars hands down.
I'm just a sad, sad Star Wars fan.
Let's at least agree on one thing: Han Solo kicks Kirk's ass, nine times out of ten.
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Don't forget that Star Trek has significantly improved targeting systems run by computers. If you've ever seen the Deep Space 9 space battles, you'd notice that the Peregrine fighter ships used by the Federation get straight up murdered by the dozens. Additionally, the weapons used aren't limited by mechanical turn rates as they're strips of weaponry that can be pointed in any direction from anywhere on the beam.
(and why the hell don't the borg use cloaks?)
Asides from power limitations on size, The borg don't need to use cloaks. They don't do hit and run, they do march and assimilate. They only assimilate what peaks their interest and the notion of stealth is plain silly.
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Let's at least agree on one thing: Han Solo kicks Kirk's ass, nine times out of ten.
Yes! I agree to that 100%. You also said something about star wars vs "true" sci-fi and I personally think that is a good distinction to make. I've always thought of star wars more as fantasy than sci-fi. It's got swords, giant fantastical creatures and mages/magic. It's just fantasy that happens to be in space rather than a medieval setting.
GLJ, good points about the borg and cloaks. I had forgotten how massive their ships are.
Don't forget that Star Trek has significantly improved targeting systems run by computers. If you've ever seen the Deep Space 9 space battles, you'd notice that the Peregrine fighter ships used by the Federation get straight up murdered by the dozens. Additionally, the weapons used aren't limited by mechanical turn rates as they're strips of weaponry that can be pointed in any direction from anywhere on the beam.
1) Worf sure misses a lot for having "significantly improved targeting systems."
2) Canonically speaking, an ISD has like 120 guns (plus 72 fighters and various other support craft), and most capital ships are similarly heavily-armed for their size (Lancer frigates would straight-up murder Peregrine fighters by the dozen due to the ridiculous concentration of fast-response turbolasers designed, well, to shred fighters).
Course I'm kinda leery about bringing the EU into it because if we do, I'd be tempted to include stuff like the Sun Crusher or the Yuuzhan Vong.
Also I just have to point this out:
Quote from sirpsychosexy »
The star wars universe ships also us lasers as their primary offensive weapon and as one episode of next gen pointed out, lasers won't even make it through a star ship's navigational shields
They aren't "lasers" except perhaps as a nickname. A laser would be an invisible line-of-sight hitscan weapon, not a high-speed visible projectile. Just because there was a throwaway line about low-tech lasers doesn't mean that everything called a laser counts, especially when the weapons in question are clearly not actual lasers.
Edit: Also re: "swords, giant fantastical creatures and mages/magic," Star Trek has that too. They've got swords ("bat'leth" was explicitly translated as "sword" in at least one episode), giant fantastical creatures (including the Q and the Prophets, which are basically gods), and mages/magic (Vulcans, Kes, etc). Including a lot more fantastical things like spatial anomalies that make absolutely no sense and a precursor story for humanoid alpha quadrant races that just makes heads hurt. No reason to act like ST is any better than SW in that regard.
Well, dammit, it was long long ago compared to how many centuries in the future? I wish there was something in the SW universe that could provide examples of what the far future would have been like in a galaxy far, far away would have been like. SW lives in the past, and even thought it's a highly advanced past, it still puts them at a disadvantage against all other true Sci-fi. Hell, now I'm thinking the Firefly universe or the Mass Effect universe probably beats Star Wars hands down.
I'm just a sad, sad Star Wars fan.
Let's at least agree on one thing: Han Solo kicks Kirk's ass, nine times out of ten.
Actually I think star wars outclasses most sci fi, in theoretical conflicts. I'm a huge bsg fan but between a match up of the Colonial Fleet vs the Empire, my money is on the Empire.
And yes: Solo>kirk!
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Edit: Also re: "swords, giant fantastical creatures and mages/magic," Star Trek has that too. They've got swords ("bat'leth" was explicitly translated as "sword" in at least one episode), giant fantastical creatures (including the Q and the Prophets, which are basically gods), and mages/magic (Vulcans, Kes, etc). Including a lot more fantastical things like spatial anomalies that make absolutely no sense and a precursor story for humanoid alpha quadrant races that just makes heads hurt. No reason to act like ST is any better than SW in that regard.
I wasn't. No reason to infer things that I didn't imply. SW being more rooted in fantasy isn't a bad thing, it's just how I see it, that doesn't mean it's better or worse than ST. There may be elements of fantasy in ST here and there but ST isn't rooted in fantasy the way SW is (bat'leths really don't show up that often and neither does Q). The fantasy feel is at the forefront of all things SW IMO. You may disagree but there is no reason to get butthurt over a difference of opinion. But sorry, the vulcans are not mages, they are scientists.
While my pervious posts do favor ST more that doesn't mean anything about how I feel about them. I love both and I think each one has something up on the other. Clearly ST is more rooted in reality and as such is more believable but I think SW is more imaginative and fun (I really like that the aliens in SW are unique and are more than just members of the "forehead of the week club").
But sorry, the vulcans are not mages, they are scientists.
Mind melds, telepathy, all that random other crap Tuvok does... just because it's not called magic doesn't mean we don't see some pretty impressive magic from the Vulcans (hell, Spock putting his soul into McCoy's body couldn't really be anything but magic). They've basically got psionic powers as a racial ability. In some respects they're pretty much identical to Force powers. I'm not making any judgements here, just saying that each setting has their own mages who use their own systems of magic.
A wizard is still a wizard when you throw a lab coat and goggles on him. Stuff like "City on the Edge of Forever" or "Tapestry" is just as magical, if not moreso, than the Force.
As for which side wins, Trek wins with its Godlike beings. It turns out that all the cool ships and weapons and teleporters don't matter when you can just magic away an entire enemy fleet.
Star Trek easy. Their tech is waaaaay beyond that of the star wars universe. As others have pointed out there is no teleportation tech in the star wars universe so the hoards of storm troopers and the combat skills of the jedi are a non issue. Also, the star wars ships don't have shields, they have deflectors and that just ain't going to cut it against photon or quantum torpedoes.
Terminology means very little, which should be made clear from "turbolasers" (Which are not lasers) or "blaster rifles" (Which probably have no rifling in the barrel to make bullets more accurate). They're called deflectors because, just like Star Trek shields, they deflect stuff.
As for how well they'd fare against transporters, how well do Star Trek shields work against turbolasers? I mean, we haven't seen them with turbolaser technology, and while shields in Star Wars stop turbolasers, that doesn't mean that Star Trek shields are the same, right? Oh wait, that's a stupid argument, much like the transporter one.
If we don't assume equivalency between shields, both sides just shoot each other to bits without any fight (Well, they do that if they're not just magick'ed away by Q).
There really isn't anything that the star wars universe can bring to the table that would be a threat to even the federation alone, forget about the whole star trek universe. The star trek guys on the other hand would be able to deal with anything the star wars guys throw at them. They might lose a ship or two to the death star but after that they can just stay on the other side of it pretty easily. Due to the lack of teleporters on the side of the jedi/sith I don't see the force coming into play here at all.
"They might lose a ship or two to the death star"
Funniest comment I've heard all day. It's the freaking Death Star. They aren't going to beat it without significant losses. It's not the giant compensation gun aiming at enemy ships; it's the fighters and laser turrets.
The Death Star doesn't even need to target a ship; just zoom to the nearest planet (remember, the Death Star has hyperdrive) and blow it up, then zoom to the next nearest planet and blow that one up, and so on and so on; it doesn't take a particularly long time to fire, as seen when it blew up Alderaan. The Federation would have to deal with devastated morale and the complete annihilation of any industrial centers the Death Star winds up at.
But, as seen in the conditions for this thread, it's not just the Feds vs the Empire, it's all of Star Trek vs all of Star Wars.
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
(Well, they do that if they're not just magick'ed away by Q).
The way I see it is Q didn't really seem to care when the Dominion was running around wrecking things. He didn't seem to care when the Borg were on the verge of destroying the Federation (he saved the Enterprise in Q Who because he wanted to make a point to Picard, nothing more). Why would he suddenly start caring if the Empire came around? I'm assuming each respective universe is still relatively in character and that what's essentially divine intervention isn't going to happen when it normally wouldn't, otherwise this thread just becomes a "which story's god is bigger?" contest and that clearly wasn't the intent of it (also, it means I don't have to trawl Wookieepedia looking for godlike beings).
Funniest comment I've heard all day. It's the freaking Death Star. They aren't going to beat it without significant losses. It's not the giant compensation gun aiming at enemy ships; it's the fighters and laser turrets.
The Death Star doesn't even need to target a ship; just zoom to the nearest planet (remember, the Death Star has hyperdrive) and blow it up, then zoom to the next nearest planet and blow that one up, and so on and so on; it doesn't take a particularly long time to fire, as seen when it blew up Alderaan. The Federation would have to deal with devastated morale and the complete annihilation of any industrial centers the Death Star winds up at.
1) check who you are quoting. I am not sirpsyhcosexy
2) ST has several world-busting technologies, some of which are the size of photon torpedoes. If you're going to play "Well deathstar blows up worlds!" so can the Federation, so can ST. ST can even make new planets if they have to.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Firstly: All god-like beings are clearly excluded because retardation otherwise follows.
It's pretty clear, much as I loathe most technology in star trek (Lol @ the notion it is in any way realistic) if you get to include all groups, ST clearly wins.
3 Borg cubes should be plenty. The only reason the borg don't win instantly in ST is plot contrivance; a borg cube is probably not much less powerful than the death star and they have *thousands*.
However, a more interesting question would be to pit the main alpha quadrant races against the pre-fall of empire star wars universe. I suspect it is much closer.
Why? Many of the reasons mentioned above AND most importantly that everybody seems to have forgotten:
Star Wars ships must drop out of warp/hyperspace to fight.
Star Trek ships do not need to drop out of hyperspace to fight, and in fact can track ships and hit them with photon torpedoes in hyperspace.
We havent even discussed Romulan cloaking technology either, which isn't even necessary to beat the Star Wars because the Star Trek universe ships in hyperspace are invisible to the Star Wars ships. Star Wars battle cruisers operate at "impulse power speeds" at best, and "wallow like a garbage scow", so unmaneuverable that they can't avoid a collision from 1 ship length apart that takes over 5 seconds to unfold.
I wonder how the force would impact the fight. Star Trek has plenty of psionics with powers similar to the force, so it might be a fun mental tug-of-war between the two sides.
3 Borg cubes should be plenty. The only reason the borg don't win instantly in ST is plot contrivance; a borg cube is probably not much less powerful than the death star and they have *thousands*.
Borg Cubes are much smaller than the Death Star and have shown nowhere near the same firepower. The idea that three of them could win against the Death Star (Let alone all of Star Wars) is absurd.
However, the Borg should win against the Empire due to sheer numbers, adaptive tech, etc.
We havent even discussed Romulan cloaking technology either, which isn't even necessary to beat the Star Wars because the Star Trek universe ships in hyperspace are invisible to the Star Wars ships. Star Wars battle cruisers operate at "impulse power speeds" at best, and "wallow like a garbage scow", so unmaneuverable that they can't avoid a collision from 1 ship length apart that takes over 5 seconds to unfold.
Star Wars has cloaking technology. "No ship that small can carry a cloaking device!"
Also, while large ships on both sides tend to have poor manueverability, we've seen Star Destroyers move fast when traveling in a straight direction; in Star Wars, for example, they were actually gaining on the Millennium Falcon.
2) ST has several world-busting technologies, some of which are the size of photon torpedoes. If you're going to play "Well deathstar blows up worlds!" so can the Federation, so can ST. ST can even make new planets if they have to.
My mistake about the quote name. As for world busters, the majority of world busters in Star Wars are not under the control of the Federation; the ones that are have been lost to time (The Genesis Device).
Remember, I was talking about the Federation vs the Empire in that example, instead of Star Wars vs Star Trek.
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The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
We havent even discussed Romulan cloaking technology either, which isn't even necessary to beat the Star Wars because the Star Trek universe ships in hyperspace are invisible to the Star Wars ships. Star Wars battle cruisers operate at "impulse power speeds" at best, and "wallow like a garbage scow", so unmaneuverable that they can't avoid a collision from 1 ship length apart that takes over 5 seconds to unfold.
The cloak is great at shielding a ships energy emissions. Has any one tested using it to mask the life force/thoughts of the crew?
Stick a powerful enough Jedi/Sith on a ship and get him enough time to go into his battle meditation and he is going to notice a bucket load of life force in an are with no ships and then order the captain to flood the area with turbo lasers.
The cloak is brilliant against convetional froms of detection but the instant the unconventional is used the lack of shielding becomes a liability. Heck just look at Star trek 6 with the one that could fire whilst cloaked and what happened to it.
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Due to a hyperdimensional spacetime quantum transduction infindibulation, the universes of Star Wars and Star Trek merge into one. The inhabitants from each universe view the inhabitants of the universe as hostile and a war between the two formerly-separate universes breaks out.
The Jedi, Sith, Empire, Rebels, etc. join forces against the allied forces of the Federation, Borg, Klingons, Romulans, etc.
Because it would be sooooooo much less interesting, I'm specifying that peace does not prevail. One side wins the war, and the other loses.
Which side wins the war?
Other favors to consider, Sheilds are pretty rare in starwar where as in star trec its extremely common.
In Star Trek TIME TRAVEL is rather common!
Don't get me wrong I love star wars however Star trek its just in another league of power. Yes Star wars has a death star (hell they might even have 2) but I am just going to point at Q, at Borg, At Telepathic races which seem to pop up every 3 epsidoes or so, at the massive amount of wars the federation has undergone (Like Deep space 9, Next generation, basically their entire universe has been in constant flux of war with ever increasingly powerful opponents.
Stright up Star Trek has been airing more seasons and has allowed power Creep to set in nicely. This is like say who would win Vintage Stacks fully powered VS UG maddness.
Also I presume Star Wars timeline is set during the Galactic Empire, when in the Star Trek timeline is this?
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
Can't even rely on Jedi, since alien races with mind-powers are a dime a dozen in ST. Even if you leave out Q, there are a number of other ominiscient/omnipotent races in ST.
SW vs the Federation is a fairer battle, but not SW against the entire ST universe.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I voted Star Wars.
Army of Stormtroopers who can't shoot vs. Army of Red shirts who can't not die. SW wins.
Jedi teaming with Sith vs. Federation teaming with Borg? Uhh, you guys know that the Jedi and the Sith have been battling since forever, neither one ever being able to completely exterminate the other, but coming pretty close on both sides. I'm gonna go ahead and say with their powers combined, they are Captain Universe.
As for ST having to deal with mind powers frequently, the Jedi and the Sith are trained not to just rely on the force. They are highly trained in combat, subversion, piloting and, of course the force, among other things. Even if they can't force-suggest some of the ST people, they can use the force as a psuedo-spidey sense, use the force to throw things, use the force to make lightning and use the force to move really really fast. Did I mention lightning? I think I did.
Lastly, the federations massive ships and shields mean little to a jedi/sith infiltration unit. Or Boba Fett. I mean, those guys take down monumentally sized ships with peashooter fighters every damn day! Nearly every tense space battle in the Star Wars movies is little ship vs big ship/spacestation/meteor wurm/effing asteroid field. Yeah, lets see the Enterprise chase Han into that one.
All in all, some of these comparisons might be skewed and I know I don't have my ST facts straight at all, but I'm just a huge SW fans. ST probably kills the Ewoks, Jarjar and the Cantina band, but only because Obi-Wan uses them as a clever/annoying distraction tactic.
SW has no teleportation tech, and thus have no real way to defend against it.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
How does that work? Is Scotty really that good?
Still, doesn't do much when you have an onslaught of all the tiny ships the rebellion and the empire control. Or the Droids. Or the random bounty hunters. How many PT's can they launch at one time? Also, does the Enterprise have any weaknesses that are Womprat-sized or bigger?
There really isn't anything that the star wars universe can bring to the table that would be a threat to even the federation alone, forget about the whole star trek universe. The star trek guys on the other hand would be able to deal with anything the star wars guys throw at them. They might lose a ship or two to the death star but after that they can just stay on the other side of it pretty easily. Due to the lack of teleporters on the side of the jedi/sith I don't see the force coming into play here at all.
Its not just Scotty, its fairly easy for any transporters operator to do.
As for the hordes of ships, lets use a different example: lets say a modern aircraft carrier and its fighters were sent back to world war 1. Assuming infinite supplies, I would wager the carrier could defeat all the world war 1 navies combined. That's how I feel about ST vs SW.
Ive heard this debated before, and in those debates people smarter than me compared the energy behind SW/ST weapons and shields. I would say that is a pretty important question in this debate. But from what I understand I would agree with sirpsychosexy, that the ships in SW are severely outclassed by ST tech.
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I'm just a sad, sad Star Wars fan.
Let's at least agree on one thing: Han Solo kicks Kirk's ass, nine times out of ten.
Asides from power limitations on size, The borg don't need to use cloaks. They don't do hit and run, they do march and assimilate. They only assimilate what peaks their interest and the notion of stealth is plain silly.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Yes! I agree to that 100%. You also said something about star wars vs "true" sci-fi and I personally think that is a good distinction to make. I've always thought of star wars more as fantasy than sci-fi. It's got swords, giant fantastical creatures and mages/magic. It's just fantasy that happens to be in space rather than a medieval setting.
GLJ, good points about the borg and cloaks. I had forgotten how massive their ships are.
SW has shields, same as Star Trek. Bad atmospheric conditions can stop transporters, so SW shields undoubtedly could.
1) Worf sure misses a lot for having "significantly improved targeting systems."
2) Canonically speaking, an ISD has like 120 guns (plus 72 fighters and various other support craft), and most capital ships are similarly heavily-armed for their size (Lancer frigates would straight-up murder Peregrine fighters by the dozen due to the ridiculous concentration of fast-response turbolasers designed, well, to shred fighters).
Course I'm kinda leery about bringing the EU into it because if we do, I'd be tempted to include stuff like the Sun Crusher or the Yuuzhan Vong.
Also I just have to point this out:
They aren't "lasers" except perhaps as a nickname. A laser would be an invisible line-of-sight hitscan weapon, not a high-speed visible projectile. Just because there was a throwaway line about low-tech lasers doesn't mean that everything called a laser counts, especially when the weapons in question are clearly not actual lasers.
Edit: Also re: "swords, giant fantastical creatures and mages/magic," Star Trek has that too. They've got swords ("bat'leth" was explicitly translated as "sword" in at least one episode), giant fantastical creatures (including the Q and the Prophets, which are basically gods), and mages/magic (Vulcans, Kes, etc). Including a lot more fantastical things like spatial anomalies that make absolutely no sense and a precursor story for humanoid alpha quadrant races that just makes heads hurt. No reason to act like ST is any better than SW in that regard.
Actually I think star wars outclasses most sci fi, in theoretical conflicts. I'm a huge bsg fan but between a match up of the Colonial Fleet vs the Empire, my money is on the Empire.
And yes: Solo>kirk!
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I wasn't. No reason to infer things that I didn't imply. SW being more rooted in fantasy isn't a bad thing, it's just how I see it, that doesn't mean it's better or worse than ST. There may be elements of fantasy in ST here and there but ST isn't rooted in fantasy the way SW is (bat'leths really don't show up that often and neither does Q). The fantasy feel is at the forefront of all things SW IMO. You may disagree but there is no reason to get butthurt over a difference of opinion. But sorry, the vulcans are not mages, they are scientists.
While my pervious posts do favor ST more that doesn't mean anything about how I feel about them. I love both and I think each one has something up on the other. Clearly ST is more rooted in reality and as such is more believable but I think SW is more imaginative and fun (I really like that the aliens in SW are unique and are more than just members of the "forehead of the week club").
Mind melds, telepathy, all that random other crap Tuvok does... just because it's not called magic doesn't mean we don't see some pretty impressive magic from the Vulcans (hell, Spock putting his soul into McCoy's body couldn't really be anything but magic). They've basically got psionic powers as a racial ability. In some respects they're pretty much identical to Force powers. I'm not making any judgements here, just saying that each setting has their own mages who use their own systems of magic.
As for which side wins, Trek wins with its Godlike beings. It turns out that all the cool ships and weapons and teleporters don't matter when you can just magic away an entire enemy fleet.
Terminology means very little, which should be made clear from "turbolasers" (Which are not lasers) or "blaster rifles" (Which probably have no rifling in the barrel to make bullets more accurate). They're called deflectors because, just like Star Trek shields, they deflect stuff.
As for how well they'd fare against transporters, how well do Star Trek shields work against turbolasers? I mean, we haven't seen them with turbolaser technology, and while shields in Star Wars stop turbolasers, that doesn't mean that Star Trek shields are the same, right? Oh wait, that's a stupid argument, much like the transporter one.
If we don't assume equivalency between shields, both sides just shoot each other to bits without any fight (Well, they do that if they're not just magick'ed away by Q).
"They might lose a ship or two to the death star"
Funniest comment I've heard all day. It's the freaking Death Star. They aren't going to beat it without significant losses. It's not the giant compensation gun aiming at enemy ships; it's the fighters and laser turrets.
The Death Star doesn't even need to target a ship; just zoom to the nearest planet (remember, the Death Star has hyperdrive) and blow it up, then zoom to the next nearest planet and blow that one up, and so on and so on; it doesn't take a particularly long time to fire, as seen when it blew up Alderaan. The Federation would have to deal with devastated morale and the complete annihilation of any industrial centers the Death Star winds up at.
But, as seen in the conditions for this thread, it's not just the Feds vs the Empire, it's all of Star Trek vs all of Star Wars.
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The way I see it is Q didn't really seem to care when the Dominion was running around wrecking things. He didn't seem to care when the Borg were on the verge of destroying the Federation (he saved the Enterprise in Q Who because he wanted to make a point to Picard, nothing more). Why would he suddenly start caring if the Empire came around? I'm assuming each respective universe is still relatively in character and that what's essentially divine intervention isn't going to happen when it normally wouldn't, otherwise this thread just becomes a "which story's god is bigger?" contest and that clearly wasn't the intent of it (also, it means I don't have to trawl Wookieepedia looking for godlike beings).
1) check who you are quoting. I am not sirpsyhcosexy
2) ST has several world-busting technologies, some of which are the size of photon torpedoes. If you're going to play "Well deathstar blows up worlds!" so can the Federation, so can ST. ST can even make new planets if they have to.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
It's pretty clear, much as I loathe most technology in star trek (Lol @ the notion it is in any way realistic) if you get to include all groups, ST clearly wins.
3 Borg cubes should be plenty. The only reason the borg don't win instantly in ST is plot contrivance; a borg cube is probably not much less powerful than the death star and they have *thousands*.
However, a more interesting question would be to pit the main alpha quadrant races against the pre-fall of empire star wars universe. I suspect it is much closer.
Why? Many of the reasons mentioned above AND most importantly that everybody seems to have forgotten:
Star Wars ships must drop out of warp/hyperspace to fight.
Star Trek ships do not need to drop out of hyperspace to fight, and in fact can track ships and hit them with photon torpedoes in hyperspace.
We havent even discussed Romulan cloaking technology either, which isn't even necessary to beat the Star Wars because the Star Trek universe ships in hyperspace are invisible to the Star Wars ships. Star Wars battle cruisers operate at "impulse power speeds" at best, and "wallow like a garbage scow", so unmaneuverable that they can't avoid a collision from 1 ship length apart that takes over 5 seconds to unfold.
Can't hit what you can't see...
Probably the best advantage they have in this fight. If we count the Warp and Hyperspace as the same, they also can hit fleeing ships.
However, a war is not just between ships; you've also got planets, which cannot escape into Hyperspace/the Warp.
Borg Cubes are much smaller than the Death Star and have shown nowhere near the same firepower. The idea that three of them could win against the Death Star (Let alone all of Star Wars) is absurd.
However, the Borg should win against the Empire due to sheer numbers, adaptive tech, etc.
Star Wars has cloaking technology. "No ship that small can carry a cloaking device!"
Also, while large ships on both sides tend to have poor manueverability, we've seen Star Destroyers move fast when traveling in a straight direction; in Star Wars, for example, they were actually gaining on the Millennium Falcon.
My mistake about the quote name. As for world busters, the majority of world busters in Star Wars are not under the control of the Federation; the ones that are have been lost to time (The Genesis Device).
Remember, I was talking about the Federation vs the Empire in that example, instead of Star Wars vs Star Trek.
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The cloak is great at shielding a ships energy emissions. Has any one tested using it to mask the life force/thoughts of the crew?
Stick a powerful enough Jedi/Sith on a ship and get him enough time to go into his battle meditation and he is going to notice a bucket load of life force in an are with no ships and then order the captain to flood the area with turbo lasers.
The cloak is brilliant against convetional froms of detection but the instant the unconventional is used the lack of shielding becomes a liability. Heck just look at Star trek 6 with the one that could fire whilst cloaked and what happened to it.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
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