Spain? 7,000 years ago? I believe this guy would have been from an ethnic group that was to be overrun by two or three successive waves of invaders from the east. That's why Spaniards don't look like that today. This certainly isn't what humans looked like 7,000 years ago everywhere. The bulk of the modern Europeans' ancestors (there would of course have been some mingling with the locals) were still somewhere in Central Asia.
Spain? 7,000 years ago? I believe this guy would have been from an ethnic group that was to be overrun by two or three successive waves of invaders from the east. That's why Spaniards don't look like that today. This certainly isn't what humans looked like 7,000 years ago everywhere. The bulk of the modern Europeans' ancestors (there would of course have been some mingling with the locals) were still somewhere in Central Asia.
Raises a point, though, about the persistence of blue eyes in Spanish blood, though, was more of my thinking.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I was always lead to believe blue eyes are a mutation that is a recessive gene that a majority of families have in them.
I really dont think the findings are that amazing. If you figure Egypt and Rome were traveling all over the world 4 and 5000 years ago, it is not that hard to figure people were doing it before them.
Spain? 7,000 years ago? I believe this guy would have been from an ethnic group that was to be overrun by two or three successive waves of invaders from the east. That's why Spaniards don't look like that today. This certainly isn't what humans looked like 7,000 years ago everywhere. The bulk of the modern Europeans' ancestors (there would of course have been some mingling with the locals) were still somewhere in Central Asia.
To my knowledge, there isn't good evidence for large population influx into Europe since the period discussed; we're only about 2000 years here from the arrival of IE culture/language, and there's certainly very little evidence for "invasion" there (though don't get me wrong, I'm a Kurgan guy through and through).
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nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I was always lead to believe blue eyes are a mutation that is a recessive gene that a majority of families have in them.
Eye colour is, in general, dictated by multiple genes rather than just one. The inheritance pattern of blue eyes is very close to that of a recessive gene, however. It's caused by lack of melanin in the iris/ocular fluid.
People with blue eyes are believed to have a singular common ancestor. The trait is incredibly common in Estonia and Denmark. IIRC, 99% of people in Estonia have blue eyes, making it the highest concentration of blue-eyed people.
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claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Eye colour is, in general, dictated by multiple genes rather than just one. The inheritance pattern of blue eyes is very close to that of a recessive gene, however. It's caused by lack of melanin in the iris/ocular fluid.
People with blue eyes are believed to have a singular common ancestor. The trait is incredibly common in Estonia and Denmark. IIRC, 99% of people in Estonia have blue eyes, making it the highest concentration of blue-eyed people.
Yes, we can read Wikipedia too. However, perhaps we might also notice that it fails to acknowledge a proper source for all of its questionable claims and that it fails to resolve the inconsistency re. no melanin v. some melanin: "There is no blue pigmentation either in the iris or in the ocular fluid. Dissection reveals that the iris pigment epithelium is brownish black due to the presence of melanin. Unlike brown eyes, blue eyes have low concentrations of melanin in the stroma of the iris, which lies in front of the dark epithelium."
Do you have an original opinion or thought with regard to the news report or this conclusion put forth in this recent study, though?
Speaking of which, if someone could post a link to the article by Lalueza-Fox, that would be great. The doi for the research report is 10.1038/nature12960.
Hey, a collaborator of a collaborator and a sort-of collaborator is an author on that. Would you look at that!
This essentially sounds like they were Lebanese, which is essentially what this is describing. It's not really surprising, honestly.
My favorite part is the 'borderline lactose intolerant'. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the description of one of my children: Dark Skin, Blue Eyes, Borderline Lactose Intolerant.
Honestly, though, this guy just sounds like someone native to the Mediterranean region. Those kinds of features are still common all around there.
To my knowledge, there isn't good evidence for large population influx into Europe since the period discussed; we're only about 2000 years here from the arrival of IE culture/language, and there's certainly very little evidence for "invasion" there (though don't get me wrong, I'm a Kurgan guy through and through).
The linguistic landscape is pretty good evidence in its own right, I think, and the material culture seems to change in waves too. Genetics may shed some more light on the situation, though, like I said, there's bound to be a ton of intermingling between whatever populations were in play, so it may be tricky to sort out. Last I checked, we couldn't even settle on a definitive answer for the extent of displacement during the Anglo-Saxon migrations into Britain, a paltry millennium and a half ago.
This essentially sounds like they were Lebanese, which is essentially what this is describing. It's not really surprising, honestly.
My favorite part is the 'borderline lactose intolerant'. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the description of one of my children: Dark Skin, Blue Eyes, Borderline Lactose Intolerant.
Honestly, though, this guy just sounds like someone native to the Mediterranean region. Those kinds of features are still common all around there.
They say the exact skin shade is hard to determine, but given that it's an African gene(s), I rather expect the effect to be darker than the Mediterranean/Levantine olive.
Funniest part of the article, by the way: dark skin "like an African-American". Science writers. Oy.
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This essentially sounds like they were Lebanese, which is essentially what this is describing. It's not really surprising, honestly.
TBH, what was the Lebanese of the times then?
My favorite part is the 'borderline lactose intolerant'. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the description of one of my children: Dark Skin, Blue Eyes, Borderline Lactose Intolerant.
Honestly, though, this guy just sounds like someone native to the Mediterranean region. Those kinds of features are still common all around there.
Uh, perhaps so.
Something about the thread title is pissing me off right now, but it could be me right now.
They say the exact skin shade is hard to determine, but given that it's an African gene(s), I rather expect the effect to be darker than the Mediterranean/Levantine olive.
All they know is that the genes are African, but it's possible he's from a genetic group that had slightly different features from what we consider African today. My point was that before the Mediterranean became the general olive it is today, there must have been a lot more distinct populations and interesting genetics when they first started interbreeding.
In any case, it's certainly an interesting example.
However, perhaps we might also notice that it fails to acknowledge a proper source for all of its questionable claims and that it fails to resolve the inconsistency re. no melanin v. some melanin: "There is no blue pigmentation either in the iris or in the ocular fluid. Dissection reveals that the iris pigment epithelium is brownish black due to the presence of melanin. Unlike brown eyes, blue eyes have low concentrations of melanin in the stroma of the iris, which lies in front of the dark epithelium."
What, exactly, is the inconsistency here?
There's Melanin in blue eyes, complete lack of melanin in the eye is called ocular albinism and I'm sure you've seen pictures about how that looks. Like, on the Wikipedia page for eye color.
Do you have an original opinion or thought with regard to the news report or this conclusion put forth in this recent study, though?
No, I reject the concept of original thought.
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creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I'm just imagining what was going through the editors head when that one slipped through.
Indeed, it is baffling that there is such ham-fistedness from an editor of an article.
So, with this revolutionary understanding, what now? I guess it's interesting to speculate about the dietary changes associated with the amount of skin pigmentation.
Man, the fact that only the abstract is accessible is so frustrating. Actually, the article is here; NCBI hasn't yet fixed the link for it to Nature. Also, for prior work from the group, see here.
The linguistic landscape is pretty good evidence in its own right, I think, and the material culture seems to change in waves too. Genetics may shed some more light on the situation, though, like I said, there's bound to be a ton of intermingling between whatever populations were in play, so it may be tricky to sort out. Last I checked, we couldn't even settle on a definitive answer for the extent of displacement during the Anglo-Saxon migrations into Britain, a paltry millennium and a half ago.
The linguistic one is a pretty hard one to go with. Look at India, for example; there is clear evidence of linguistic invasion into the subcontinent (the Indic languages displacing the native Dravidian/Munda/etc), but the genetic/ethnic evidence is a lot sketchier (except that higher-caste individuals are more likely than lower-caste ones to have some Central Asian genes). Most Indo-Europeanists have mostly given up the large-scale invasion theories in favor of diffusion and adoption by native populations.
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Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Even if, that still leaves the Basques, Celts, Phoenicians/Carthaginians, Romans, Visigoths, Moors, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some others. To say nothing of the smaller-scale movements of groups like the Sephardim and individual migrants, and the prehistoric wanderings for which no evidence remains - one of which surely brought the ancestors of this man himself to Iberia. (My theory? "Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet." ...Hey, see my sig.)
Anyway, ours is not what you'd call a homebody species.
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Neat.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
But yes, neat.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Raises a point, though, about the persistence of blue eyes in Spanish blood, though, was more of my thinking.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I really dont think the findings are that amazing. If you figure Egypt and Rome were traveling all over the world 4 and 5000 years ago, it is not that hard to figure people were doing it before them.
To my knowledge, there isn't good evidence for large population influx into Europe since the period discussed; we're only about 2000 years here from the arrival of IE culture/language, and there's certainly very little evidence for "invasion" there (though don't get me wrong, I'm a Kurgan guy through and through).
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Eye colour is, in general, dictated by multiple genes rather than just one. The inheritance pattern of blue eyes is very close to that of a recessive gene, however. It's caused by lack of melanin in the iris/ocular fluid.
People with blue eyes are believed to have a singular common ancestor. The trait is incredibly common in Estonia and Denmark. IIRC, 99% of people in Estonia have blue eyes, making it the highest concentration of blue-eyed people.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Yes, we can read Wikipedia too. However, perhaps we might also notice that it fails to acknowledge a proper source for all of its questionable claims and that it fails to resolve the inconsistency re. no melanin v. some melanin: "There is no blue pigmentation either in the iris or in the ocular fluid. Dissection reveals that the iris pigment epithelium is brownish black due to the presence of melanin. Unlike brown eyes, blue eyes have low concentrations of melanin in the stroma of the iris, which lies in front of the dark epithelium."
Do you have an original opinion or thought with regard to the news report or this conclusion put forth in this recent study, though?
Speaking of which, if someone could post a link to the article by Lalueza-Fox, that would be great.The doi for the research report is 10.1038/nature12960.
Hey, a collaborator of a collaborator and a sort-of collaborator is an author on that. Would you look at that!
Wow. I had to re-read this sentence thrice. Fewer thoughs or a different construction would better it.
Cool.
Fascinating, but also what of it?
At the same time, race and all this stuff is important and has profound implications, but it is also not very important.
My favorite part is the 'borderline lactose intolerant'. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the description of one of my children: Dark Skin, Blue Eyes, Borderline Lactose Intolerant.
Honestly, though, this guy just sounds like someone native to the Mediterranean region. Those kinds of features are still common all around there.
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Quotes:
I trust the irony here is deliberate?
They say the exact skin shade is hard to determine, but given that it's an African gene(s), I rather expect the effect to be darker than the Mediterranean/Levantine olive.
Funniest part of the article, by the way: dark skin "like an African-American". Science writers. Oy.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
TBH, what was the Lebanese of the times then?
Uh, perhaps so.
Something about the thread title is pissing me off right now, but it could be me right now.
Yeah, definitely.
All they know is that the genes are African, but it's possible he's from a genetic group that had slightly different features from what we consider African today. My point was that before the Mediterranean became the general olive it is today, there must have been a lot more distinct populations and interesting genetics when they first started interbreeding.
In any case, it's certainly an interesting example.
I'm just imagining what was going through the editors head when that one slipped through.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
It's a good ability to have. Clearly there were people here that hadn't read the article, though. I'm sorry for trying to be helpful.
What, exactly, is the inconsistency here?
There's Melanin in blue eyes, complete lack of melanin in the eye is called ocular albinism and I'm sure you've seen pictures about how that looks. Like, on the Wikipedia page for eye color.
No, I reject the concept of original thought.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Well, thank you for your consideration.
Quite all right. You weren't trying to be helpful; that must have been helpful, so you could say that you were being helpful.
Sorry, saw fuzzies.
Fair enough.
Indeed, it is baffling that there is such ham-fistedness from an editor of an article.
So, with this revolutionary understanding, what now? I guess it's interesting to speculate about the dietary changes associated with the amount of skin pigmentation.
Man, the fact that only the abstract is accessible is so frustrating.Actually, the article is here; NCBI hasn't yet fixed the link for it to Nature. Also, for prior work from the group, see here.The linguistic one is a pretty hard one to go with. Look at India, for example; there is clear evidence of linguistic invasion into the subcontinent (the Indic languages displacing the native Dravidian/Munda/etc), but the genetic/ethnic evidence is a lot sketchier (except that higher-caste individuals are more likely than lower-caste ones to have some Central Asian genes). Most Indo-Europeanists have mostly given up the large-scale invasion theories in favor of diffusion and adoption by native populations.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Anyway, ours is not what you'd call a homebody species.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.