I'd heard of this when I was in medical school, because somebody I knew in a fraternity mentioned it. I was incredulous and downright angry upon hearing about it... Then I thought he was putting me on.
What kind of person thinks this is funny?
I dont think I could remain friends with any person who finds something like this even remotely funny.
I guess its something that started with the Marines. Guys put $50 into a pot and all agree to bring the ugliest date they can. Have to be "polite" and not tell the girl, and must dance with her. At the end of the night, they crown a "winner".
I get angry and nauseated just thinking about it. Who is just that simply mean?
While I would never do this myself (out of taking pride in not ever picking an ugly mate) I laughed a bit when I heard this. Me and my friends would do something similar.
To answer your question: A complete disregard for another human's feelings, and utter lack of sympathy for (most) fellow man. I ride that train, personally.
Not funny, but not surprising either. As noted elsewhere, such 'games' have been played for decades (centuries? Millenia? Who knows how deep the rabbit hole goes).
It's reprehensible, which is I'm sure part of why such people find it funny.
As someone whose no more than average looking and has self-esteem issues (Meaning I often think myself ugly), I am offended by the idea of this, yet on the other side of this, they aren't supposed to TELL the date that they are ugly, so this could in fact make someone whose doesn't look very appealing and is lacking in confidence gain confidence in themselves for actually being chosen as someone's date. That's my logic anyways, so I'm kind of on the fence, I suppose :/
As someone whose no more than average looking and has self-esteem issues (Meaning I often think myself ugly), I am offended by the idea of this, yet on the other side of this, they aren't supposed to TELL the date that they are ugly, so this could in fact make someone whose doesn't look very appealing and is lacking in confidence gain confidence in themselves for actually being chosen as someone's date. That's my logic anyways, so I'm kind of on the fence, I suppose :/
You'd be shocked by how many hideous people consider themselves to be attractive. I know I am on a consistent basis.
Edit- wow i totally forgot what i was originally going to say, holy crap i'm on way too late after way too long a day... anyway.
if someone is unattractive and bags a >decent looking partner, and shows up for a group date, and sees the other >decent individuals, i'd imagine it would take a pretty dumb/hopeful person to figure out something wasn't right.
A real arse who has absolutely no respect for not only the date but themselves. How absolutely appalling!
Quote from da_magic_man »
I guess the OP's never heard of 'hogging' or worse, 'oiled/slick/wet hogging'.
Damn, man.
I knew that I had read of hogging but I didn't remember its meaning. What is this worse type of hogging?
I think all of this is shocking, just shocking, as is "scoring" (as in conquests and the culture of reporting or bragging about sexual exploits and the like) and generally treating others like trash or nothing at all.
It's not the degree of damage here that really gets under my skin here. Obviously there are more painful cruelties and injustices in the world that go on every day, for a variety of reasons.
With this though, its just how FAR OUT OF YOUR WAY, that you have to go, to be cruel to somebody.
Rating the members of the opposite gender or calling then dogs when talking to other guys, that's something culture tells us is OK, and it becomes ingrained. Objectifying the opposite gender to some degree, it's natural and understandable.
But making a date with the ugliest person you can find, just BECAUSE you're playing some kind of game or bet with your friends, then crowning the ugliest... it's just so personal, and hands on, with so much time for reflection prior to the action.
It really is more suitable as an elaborate plan of revenge that you would take on somebody who wronged you deeply, than a game you would do to a stranger for ****s and giggles. (I can see if a girl deliberately trashed & deeply wronged you or a good friend or something... Trying to get even with that girl, making her think she was hot **** and being asked out on a nice date, then takin her out and ditching her & revealing to everybody that everybody thinks she's an ugly joke, to humiliate her. But why would anybody want to go out of their way to visit that kind of humiliation on a person who was minding their own business, and you just happen to think she's ugly? And really, all the deception that's involved in inviting somebody out on a date, when you're not actually interested, you're only interested in mocking them and winning a bet. Who does this to strangers?)
I lose all respect for any human who would Actually follow through and do this to another person. As for people who think its funny or giggle at the idea: we can't control what we find funny, and we all find some awful things to be funny. We CAN control our actions.
In the 3rd or 4th grade... Or maybe even later if you never interact with the opposite sex and are very undersocialized, this might make you want to giggle (Because you don't know better and you havent really gotten to the maturity level to empathize with people). But most people would not have the stomach to look an innocent person in the eye and follow through on crap like this.
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As for "hogging", i don't think it's anywhere near as cruel. It seems no worse or better than any other random contest of sexual exploits, where you're keeping score with yourself or friends. I would presume you're enjoying the sex with a BBW, so there's not necessarily a big LIE going in here. You and the large girl are going home together from a bar to have sex. There is no implied interest other than "getting it in". The girl knows she's heavy. The girl assumes you want to have sex with her body. *I* assume you want to have sex with her body, because if you were actually "repulsed" or put off by her being heavy, "hogging" would be impossible to do (the little head tells us what the big head wants, loud & clear).
"Hogging" sounds to me like a bunch of guys who like to have sex with big girls (or can only score 1 night stands with big girls), but because big girls are not considered "high esteem prizes" in current society and culture, the guys make up a contest so they can hang on to a scrap of dignity, while having 1 night stands with the heavier girls that most other guys have no interest in having 1 night stands with (heavier girls that their other friends might ridicule them for hitting and quitting). Any 1 night stand I think that it can at least be presumed that both sides know what they're getting out of it. I you are "hogging", then you WANT to have sex with a fat girl, and pretending you don't is a joke. The johnson doesn't lie.
If you're "hogging" and claim you don't enjoy sex with fat girls, then that's like having a bet with your friends to see which one can have sex with the fattest guy, then claiming you're not gay. Please, not buying it. Own it.
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Now if you were to have a "fat date" contest similar to the "dogfight", where you're asking out heavy girls on dates, and secretly plan to crown the "fattest date", then this would be disgusting, deceptive, and cruel, and yes I would lose all respect for anybody who could follow through on it. See the difference?
When you ask somebody out, you are implying you genuinely like them and want to take them out. Lying about that, as part of some contest, is disgusting. It's a backstabbing & betrayal that makes i harder for a person to trust, as well as a slap in the face.
I'm pretty sure the moral behind the movie Dinner for Schmucks was what you are talking about dcartist.
Here you have a bunch of rich people having a dinner where they all have to find the most "schmucky" guest ever. Sounds similar.
Then, our hearts are warmed over by Steve Carrell, and Paul Rudds character learns the value of personality, friendship, and inner beauty.
We find out in the end that the biggest "schmucks" of all are those fat cats throwing the party at the expense of those people they deemed "lesser people".
I imagine the same is true here.
The ugliest people at the "dog fight" are those truly horrid people throwing the party. They are so disgustingly ugly on the inside, they make it their mission to find people who are ugly on the outside and belittle them.
But hey, our culture is gravitating towards the celebration of "ugly personalities" - just watch reality television.
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“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
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I imagine that there was once a time in my life where I would find this funny; not that I would ever have participated. Now, I just find it juvenile. You are trying to reaffirm your own superior beauty and status by degrading another and allowing them to become emotionally attached, harming them further.
For a role reversal, this was actually done by sororities at my undergrad. It messed with some guys really bad.
Or they could assume they have a partner with some level of intelligence that values personality and other such qualities over shallow things like aesthetics. After all in a long term partner looks will fade and most 80 year olds are not known for their stunning looks.
It's quite sad how much value the idiots of this world place on vanity, but I suppose the reason they do this is they a) generally don't have nice personalities (prime example rivaltunas comments already admitting to "complete disregard for another human's feelings, and utter lack of sympathy") b) don't have the intelligence to know any better.
So to answer your question dcartist, the people who are likely to do such things are people that are not worth talking to and probably have nothing better to do because they need to make themselves feel better due to a deepseated subconcious knowledge that they are inadequate in other areas.
"After all in a long term partner looks will fade and most 80 year olds are not known for their stunning looks."
I'd do cloris leachman. Just sayin'.
also, I don't believe in the idea of "settling." I'm an attractive (6 pack abs and really toned, athletic body), successful (making $25 an hour at 19 with no college degree, and only getting started, I already bought myself a corvette after just 2 years, paid off IN CASH, live by myself) individual of above-average intellect (two seperate IQ tests I took put me in the low 130's range, but i'm certainly no genius) and I firmly believe that I don't have to do what said above, which I refer to as "settling."
Pardon the conceit (one of my many flaws), but I know that I can hold out for a very attractive, decently intelligent, great personality-possessing mate, so why on earth would I settle for an ugly girl with a great personality when I could have a great looking girl with a personality that clicks with me?
Pretty fades, very true, but I'd rather spend the 30ish years that the girl will remain attractive attracted to her, rather than just getting with a dog ugly girl and always having to have the lights off when she's around, which i guess is a foreign concept to you.
My standards are much higher than most peoples, and yes, i do tend to spend a lot of time single, but that's out of choice. I don't NEED a girl in my life, but if one happens to come along that attracts me physically and then wins me over with who she is as a person, great. And if her personality falls short (typically) than I can still sleep with her at least. There's never a shortage of potential partners for me to pick from, the hardest part is finding a girl that i actually like.
So before you call people with higher standards than what you have "idiots," I suggest that you get off your high horse and realize that in reality, they may just be better looking or maybe just have more "game" than you do.
also, "deepseated subconcious knowledge that they are inadequate in other areas."
lol. you're a genuine psychologist, you should earn an honorary degree for that statement.
Nothing wrong with having high standards. Why not aim even higher and be surprised? Beauty may fade, but do not assume that very attractive women are devoid of personality. It's not even slightly true. You can aim high and meet some very wonderful and super intelligent people.
Still, having high standards and subjecting women who do not meet those standards to ridicule is kind of a low punch in my opinion.
Cruelty and pettiness are not new things. Is it reprehensible and disgusting? Yes, but so are a lot of things society tolerates. Just avoid people who act like this, and you should save yourself quite a bit of angst.
Reminds me of the old vasectomy/tubal ligation donation jar prank. I'm really sanguine about that level of pranking with someone you know that is into those sorts of jokes or someone that has an extremely bad personality.
In this specific case, though I feel it goes a land too far even on the prank end. It's setting someone up for outright mockery and wasted time. It's about up there with someone bringing home a person to meet their parents just to piss off their parents. Which just puts the person into the role of a prop.
The only time where I ever really comment about other people's girl friends is whenever they've basically fallen into the stupid "she's too good for me" trap and end up dating someone that they "think they deserve" which normally ends up being some of questionable staying power in their lives. Or just someone questionable in general. Although, pooling for "how long until they break up" can be an interesting game.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
While I would never do this myself (out of taking pride in not ever picking an ugly mate) I laughed a bit when I heard this. Me and my friends would do something similar.
Your friends sound like terrible people.
To answer your question: A complete disregard for another human's feelings, and utter lack of sympathy for (most) fellow man. I ride that train, personally.
Sounds like overcompensating for something. And again, qualities generally found in terrible people. Qualities that basically DEFINE terrible, sociopathic people.
You'd be shocked by how many hideous people consider themselves to be attractive. I know I am on a consistent basis.
Edit- wow i totally forgot what i was originally going to say, holy crap i'm on way too late after way too long a day... anyway.
if someone is unattractive and bags a >decent looking partner, and shows up for a group date, and sees the other >decent individuals, i'd imagine it would take a pretty dumb/hopeful person to figure out something wasn't right.
Its interesting you define the world in terms of ">decent", "hideous", "Unattractive", etc.
Everything is relative. If a hot model were to meet you, ask you out, then when she met you at the bar for drinks, her & her friends showed up with their successful boyfriends and started laughing at you: "and he drove a corvette and he was bragging about it... Doesn't he look like an even uglier K-fed? He told me to touch his abs... Bwahahaha and he was BRAGGING that he makes $25 an hour! Seriously! Bragging about making $50K. He thought he could be with me.. It's cute.. K-fed Jr. Oh, I can't breathe! Oh we're done with you, now, thanks for the Laughs. Drive your 'vette back to the trailer park..."
What would you think of that?
I would think that she sounds kind of like you.
also, I don't believe in the idea of "settling."
Nobody said you have to "settle". Date whomever you like
Just don't get why you would think its funny to find somebody who is born with unusually bad looks, and humiliate them. As if you're somehow entitled. Isnt that what we once did in K-garten and now are ashamed of ourselves about? Like picking on kids who are in special ed?
I'm an attractive (6 pack abs and really toned, athletic body), successful (making $25 an hour at 19 with no college degree, and only getting started, I already bought myself a corvette after just 2 years, paid off IN CASH, live by myself) individual of above-average intellect (two seperate IQ tests I took put me in the low 130's range, but i'm certainly no genius) and I firmly believe that I don't have to do what said above, which I refer to as "settling."
Your corvette and your $25 an hour job and are no different than money. A woman who wants to be with you for your corvette and job is just trying to get paid. So far you haven't described one positive quality about your personality, but you've described some terrible ones.
Pardon the conceit (one of my many flaws), but I know that I can hold out for a very attractive, decently intelligent, great personality-possessing mate, so why on earth would I settle for an ugly girl with a great personality when I could have a great looking girl with a personality that clicks with me?
sorry, not to be mean here, but you've described yourself as a good looking guy with a great body, and an awful personality.
You'll probably end up with the same... In a girl.
Pretty fades, very true, but I'd rather spend the 30ish years that the girl will remain attractive attracted to her, rather than just getting with a dog ugly girl and always having to have the lights off when she's around, which i guess is a foreign concept to you.
My standards are much higher than most peoples, and yes, i do tend to spend a lot of time single, but that's out of choice.
Sure it's choice
I don't NEED a girl in my life, but if one happens to come along that attracts me physically and then wins me over with who she is as a person, great.
yeah, just keep waiting. I'm sure that one of those is on her way right now.
And if her personality falls short (typically) than I can still sleep with her at least.
Joke's on you. Have you considered the possibility that the reason you're alone is because YOUR personality falls short, and they "can still sleep with you at least."? They get to touch your 6 pack abs, ride the vette, and not have to listen to your vapid, self absorbed chit chat? Just asking is all...
There's never a shortage of potential partners for me to pick from, the hardest part is finding a girl that i actually like.
see above.
So before you call people with higher standards than what you have "idiots," I suggest that you get off your high horse and realize that in reality, they may just be better looking or maybe just have more "game" than you do.
some advice: You may be the smartest, best looking, guy you know, but really, your looks and your body will go bad a lot sooner than 30 years.
Unless you play pro sports for a living, the chances of you keeping that 6 pack into your mid-20s is really low. Plus you may be smart but without an advanced degree, you'll probably end up financially falling far behind those who get doctorates and professional degrees. $25 an hour is nothing to brag about. Lets see if you still have a job in a year. You may not have your hair in 5 years. Very good chance you'll lose it before you're 30.
19 year olds on your current track usually don't age gracefully.
Like Belgareth, I too find myself suspecting a huge amount of insecurity in a person who finds it funny to just go out of your way to be mean to people who are less good looking or less smart than you. That kind of behavior is UGLY. And sad. No way to sugarcoat that part.
Also, based on what you've stated here, it doesnt sound like you have any real "game": You're 19, good looking, have a great body, some money, and a nice car.
Being able to sleep with a bunch of high school and college girls doesn't mean you have game.
Being able to sleep with a bunch of high school and college girls means you're 19, good looking, have a great body, some money, and a nice car.
Superficial girls may like those things so much that they would overlook your obvious cruelty and arrogance. Many girls who are just interested in a good time might overlook those flaws. But only horrible gold digging Hos are going to want to STAY with a a cruel, arrogant person.
Honestly ask yourself: "other than possession or ownership or trophy value or your money, why would a girl ever want to BE with you? If you're not a kind, tender, loyal, gentle person, why would another human want to BE with an arrogant self centered person like you? What's so great about spending time with your mean self?"
Most people I have ever known with REAL "game" understood people really well, and had serious empathy. They wouldn't go out of their way to be mean to girls who were "beneath their standards". Guys with serious game might ignore somebody "beneath" them, but they don't make sport of people with less. You're 19 so I should cut you some slack, but cruelty is ugly, and theres no excuse for it as an adult.
my body is gonna take injury before i lose my fitness. my entire life revolves around me being physically fit and able, my job is teaching martial arts, and i'm currently making $25 an hour PER PERSON, and i started with 3 people training under me, dropped to the two i currently have when i moved to florida, but I'll be up to 5 when i get back to NJ. in about 3-4 years time, realistically i'll be making $60K per year, not bad. i'll never outclass doctors, lawyers, bankers, wall street fat cats, etc. but that's fine, because my job is infinitely less stressful than they have it, and i'm willing to bet i'm happier overall.
game /=/ personality, btw. how many guys get all the girls BECAUSE they're *******s? girls LIKE douchebags like me.
Also, this is the internet, so i'm not gonna be listing good, positive things about my personality lmao. what's the point? i've got a few redeeming qualities, nothing i'd particularly care to talk about, but it's important. you're making the judgement that i get success with mates based purely for physical reasons without knowing much about my personality. and let's be real here for a moment, even a world class psychologist can't tell much about a person based on their posts on an anonymous forum on the internet when dealing with a bunch of strangers.
yeah, it's happened that girls have tried to use me for my looks/success before, but i'm pretty quick to pick up on that, and so far i've been able to turn the tables most of the time. there was one girl that just completely crushed me about a year ago, but now i blame myself for not seeing it sooner.
in the end, i'm not a great guy. i probably don't even qualify for what most people consider "good." but i'm far from the worst person around, and the important thing is that i've got some REAL friends who think im a similar manner to me, and i live comfortably and happily, and judging from the way a lot of people post here, happiness is something that eludes a lot of you, so i'm sorry for that.
"After all in a long term partner looks will fade and most 80 year olds are not known for their stunning looks."
I'd do cloris leachman. Just sayin'.
also, I don't believe in the idea of "settling." I'm an attractive (6 pack abs and really toned, athletic body), successful (making $25 an hour at 19 with no college degree, and only getting started, I already bought myself a corvette after just 2 years, paid off IN CASH, live by myself) individual of above-average intellect (two seperate IQ tests I took put me in the low 130's range, but i'm certainly no genius) and I firmly believe that I don't have to do what said above, which I refer to as "settling."
Pardon the conceit (one of my many flaws), but I know that I can hold out for a very attractive, decently intelligent, great personality-possessing mate, so why on earth would I settle for an ugly girl with a great personality when I could have a great looking girl with a personality that clicks with me?
Pretty fades, very true, but I'd rather spend the 30ish years that the girl will remain attractive attracted to her, rather than just getting with a dog ugly girl and always having to have the lights off when she's around, which i guess is a foreign concept to you.
My standards are much higher than most peoples, and yes, i do tend to spend a lot of time single, but that's out of choice. I don't NEED a girl in my life, but if one happens to come along that attracts me physically and then wins me over with who she is as a person, great. And if her personality falls short (typically) than I can still sleep with her at least. There's never a shortage of potential partners for me to pick from, the hardest part is finding a girl that i actually like.
So before you call people with higher standards than what you have "idiots," I suggest that you get off your high horse and realize that in reality, they may just be better looking or maybe just have more "game" than you do.
also, "deepseated subconcious knowledge that they are inadequate in other areas."
lol. you're a genuine psychologist, you should earn an honorary degree for that statement.
Wow, I'm so impressed by this its amazing. You're a mangod and a symbolic alpha male we can all look up to.
You have sixpack abs!!!! OMG how awesome!
You bought a vette!!!! WTFBBQ!!!
This almost reminds me of that one thread that one time where you told everyone how badass you were beating up some girls stepdad who got in your face.
EDIT: LOL I found it http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7953793&postcount=28
Yes folks, Rivaltuna is a demigod! Bow down!
Sounds to me like the kind of post a poser posts bragging about his awesomeness as if that awesomeness is readily aparent from a computer screen.
Internet warriors....they get tougher everyday LOL
Wow, I'm so impressed by this its amazing. You're a mangod and a symbolic alpha male we can all look up to.
You have sixpack abs!!!! OMG how awesome!
You bought a vette!!!! WTFBBQ!!!
This almost reminds me of that one thread that one time where you told everyone how badass you were beating up some girls stepdad who got in your face.
EDIT: LOL I found it http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7953793&postcount=28
Yes folks, Rivaltuna is a demigod! Bow down!
Sounds to me like the kind of post a poser posts bragging about his awesomeness as if that awesomeness is readily aparent from a computer screen.
Internet warriors....they get tougher everyday LOL
You're such a rebel.
Also, all you nerds keep raging. This is the first and only time you've ever been able to talk **** to the kind of people who shunned you in high school without having to deal with backlash, it's cute.
I'd heard of this when I was in medical school, because somebody I knew in a fraternity mentioned it. I was incredulous and downright angry upon hearing about it... Then I thought he was putting me on.
What kind of person thinks this is funny?
I dont think I could remain friends with any person who finds something like this even remotely funny.
I guess its something that started with the Marines. Guys put $50 into a pot and all agree to bring the ugliest date they can. Have to be "polite" and not tell the girl, and must dance with her. At the end of the night, they crown a "winner".
I get angry and nauseated just thinking about it. Who is just that simply mean?
This has been going on for eons. It was played by both men and women when I went to college for large sums of money. It got to the point where monies would get split between the winner and the 'date' if they won.
I think people need to really start toughening up a bit. It seems every little thing that talks about looks or life style choices gets people up in arms one way or the other. We cant live others lives for them. Live and let live.
So has bullying. And lying to get sex. And beating up "sissies". Doesn't make it cool.
was played by both men and women when I went to college for large sums of money. It got to the point where monies would get split between the winner and the 'date' if they won.
This is a lot like the crowning "king of fools" at the beginning of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". If everybody is a knowing participant, its one thing, but in the variations i've heard of, the "date" doesnt know they're being recruited for an "ugly date contest". They humiliatingly figure it out after they get there.
I think people need to really start toughening up a bit. It seems every little thing that talks about looks or life style choices gets people up in arms one way or the other. We cant live others lives for them.
Nobody said it was a crime. Nobody suggested a law banning it. Nobody said to put people in jail for it.
It's unlikely a girl is going to commit suicide over it. Probably some will cry after they go home. Be humiliated, maybe share it with mom, maybe too humiliated to talk to their friends about it. Whatever, they got tougher. Yay, you!
Live and let live.
Exactly. Leave people alone. If you think you're so great that you are better looking than some girl, don't lie to her and make some cruel joke out of her. Live and let live.
I've not called for any sanctions against a player of the "dogfight". I've only pointed out how pointlessly mean it is. It's not like I'm holding adults to a ridiculously high standard of behavior. You have kids. Would your heart swell with pride if you saw one of them, at 18 years of age, doing this to some girl who's crushing on him? Inviting this "ugly chick" to the "dogfight"? I would be sitting him down and telling him "you're better than this. Just because those ****ups at school do it doesn't mean you have to be a sheep."
dcartist, I truly believe a little humiliation make one a better person. The reason things have gotten to where they are in society is because no one can take any type of humiliation or critisism without blowing it out of proportion.
So has bullying. And lying to get sex. And beating up "sissies". Doesn't make it cool.
Heres where you and I disagree. I was bullied, hazed, got the crap beat out of me growing up, it made me a better person. It made me understand my short comings. (nad no matter how much todays generatons want to believe thy have no short comings, they do, and no way for them to understand what they are) I feel for those who dont go thru some type of coming of age rituals we as a society use to have. I see it in the generations of today, they are much weaker mentally and physically.
Exactly. Leave people alone.
You totally missed what I was trying to say. I can see you are up in arms about this and upset by the practice. I will just move on and let you stew in your anger over something you can change or control.
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What kind of person thinks this is funny?
I dont think I could remain friends with any person who finds something like this even remotely funny.
I guess its something that started with the Marines. Guys put $50 into a pot and all agree to bring the ugliest date they can. Have to be "polite" and not tell the girl, and must dance with her. At the end of the night, they crown a "winner".
I get angry and nauseated just thinking about it. Who is just that simply mean?
http://m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=dogfight
To answer your question: A complete disregard for another human's feelings, and utter lack of sympathy for (most) fellow man. I ride that train, personally.
It's reprehensible, which is I'm sure part of why such people find it funny.
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You'd be shocked by how many hideous people consider themselves to be attractive. I know I am on a consistent basis.
Edit- wow i totally forgot what i was originally going to say, holy crap i'm on way too late after way too long a day... anyway.
if someone is unattractive and bags a >decent looking partner, and shows up for a group date, and sees the other >decent individuals, i'd imagine it would take a pretty dumb/hopeful person to figure out something wasn't right.
Damn, man.
I knew that I had read of hogging but I didn't remember its meaning. What is this worse type of hogging?
I think all of this is shocking, just shocking, as is "scoring" (as in conquests and the culture of reporting or bragging about sexual exploits and the like) and generally treating others like trash or nothing at all.
With this though, its just how FAR OUT OF YOUR WAY, that you have to go, to be cruel to somebody.
Rating the members of the opposite gender or calling then dogs when talking to other guys, that's something culture tells us is OK, and it becomes ingrained. Objectifying the opposite gender to some degree, it's natural and understandable.
But making a date with the ugliest person you can find, just BECAUSE you're playing some kind of game or bet with your friends, then crowning the ugliest... it's just so personal, and hands on, with so much time for reflection prior to the action.
It really is more suitable as an elaborate plan of revenge that you would take on somebody who wronged you deeply, than a game you would do to a stranger for ****s and giggles. (I can see if a girl deliberately trashed & deeply wronged you or a good friend or something... Trying to get even with that girl, making her think she was hot **** and being asked out on a nice date, then takin her out and ditching her & revealing to everybody that everybody thinks she's an ugly joke, to humiliate her. But why would anybody want to go out of their way to visit that kind of humiliation on a person who was minding their own business, and you just happen to think she's ugly? And really, all the deception that's involved in inviting somebody out on a date, when you're not actually interested, you're only interested in mocking them and winning a bet. Who does this to strangers?)
I lose all respect for any human who would Actually follow through and do this to another person. As for people who think its funny or giggle at the idea: we can't control what we find funny, and we all find some awful things to be funny. We CAN control our actions.
In the 3rd or 4th grade... Or maybe even later if you never interact with the opposite sex and are very undersocialized, this might make you want to giggle (Because you don't know better and you havent really gotten to the maturity level to empathize with people). But most people would not have the stomach to look an innocent person in the eye and follow through on crap like this.
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As for "hogging", i don't think it's anywhere near as cruel. It seems no worse or better than any other random contest of sexual exploits, where you're keeping score with yourself or friends. I would presume you're enjoying the sex with a BBW, so there's not necessarily a big LIE going in here. You and the large girl are going home together from a bar to have sex. There is no implied interest other than "getting it in". The girl knows she's heavy. The girl assumes you want to have sex with her body. *I* assume you want to have sex with her body, because if you were actually "repulsed" or put off by her being heavy, "hogging" would be impossible to do (the little head tells us what the big head wants, loud & clear).
"Hogging" sounds to me like a bunch of guys who like to have sex with big girls (or can only score 1 night stands with big girls), but because big girls are not considered "high esteem prizes" in current society and culture, the guys make up a contest so they can hang on to a scrap of dignity, while having 1 night stands with the heavier girls that most other guys have no interest in having 1 night stands with (heavier girls that their other friends might ridicule them for hitting and quitting). Any 1 night stand I think that it can at least be presumed that both sides know what they're getting out of it. I you are "hogging", then you WANT to have sex with a fat girl, and pretending you don't is a joke. The johnson doesn't lie.
If you're "hogging" and claim you don't enjoy sex with fat girls, then that's like having a bet with your friends to see which one can have sex with the fattest guy, then claiming you're not gay. Please, not buying it. Own it.
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Now if you were to have a "fat date" contest similar to the "dogfight", where you're asking out heavy girls on dates, and secretly plan to crown the "fattest date", then this would be disgusting, deceptive, and cruel, and yes I would lose all respect for anybody who could follow through on it. See the difference?
When you ask somebody out, you are implying you genuinely like them and want to take them out. Lying about that, as part of some contest, is disgusting. It's a backstabbing & betrayal that makes i harder for a person to trust, as well as a slap in the face.
Here you have a bunch of rich people having a dinner where they all have to find the most "schmucky" guest ever. Sounds similar.
Then, our hearts are warmed over by Steve Carrell, and Paul Rudds character learns the value of personality, friendship, and inner beauty.
We find out in the end that the biggest "schmucks" of all are those fat cats throwing the party at the expense of those people they deemed "lesser people".
I imagine the same is true here.
The ugliest people at the "dog fight" are those truly horrid people throwing the party. They are so disgustingly ugly on the inside, they make it their mission to find people who are ugly on the outside and belittle them.
But hey, our culture is gravitating towards the celebration of "ugly personalities" - just watch reality television.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
For a role reversal, this was actually done by sororities at my undergrad. It messed with some guys really bad.
"After all in a long term partner looks will fade and most 80 year olds are not known for their stunning looks."
I'd do cloris leachman. Just sayin'.
also, I don't believe in the idea of "settling." I'm an attractive (6 pack abs and really toned, athletic body), successful (making $25 an hour at 19 with no college degree, and only getting started, I already bought myself a corvette after just 2 years, paid off IN CASH, live by myself) individual of above-average intellect (two seperate IQ tests I took put me in the low 130's range, but i'm certainly no genius) and I firmly believe that I don't have to do what said above, which I refer to as "settling."
Pardon the conceit (one of my many flaws), but I know that I can hold out for a very attractive, decently intelligent, great personality-possessing mate, so why on earth would I settle for an ugly girl with a great personality when I could have a great looking girl with a personality that clicks with me?
Pretty fades, very true, but I'd rather spend the 30ish years that the girl will remain attractive attracted to her, rather than just getting with a dog ugly girl and always having to have the lights off when she's around, which i guess is a foreign concept to you.
My standards are much higher than most peoples, and yes, i do tend to spend a lot of time single, but that's out of choice. I don't NEED a girl in my life, but if one happens to come along that attracts me physically and then wins me over with who she is as a person, great. And if her personality falls short (typically) than I can still sleep with her at least. There's never a shortage of potential partners for me to pick from, the hardest part is finding a girl that i actually like.
So before you call people with higher standards than what you have "idiots," I suggest that you get off your high horse and realize that in reality, they may just be better looking or maybe just have more "game" than you do.
also, "deepseated subconcious knowledge that they are inadequate in other areas."
lol. you're a genuine psychologist, you should earn an honorary degree for that statement.
Still, having high standards and subjecting women who do not meet those standards to ridicule is kind of a low punch in my opinion.
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In this specific case, though I feel it goes a land too far even on the prank end. It's setting someone up for outright mockery and wasted time. It's about up there with someone bringing home a person to meet their parents just to piss off their parents. Which just puts the person into the role of a prop.
The only time where I ever really comment about other people's girl friends is whenever they've basically fallen into the stupid "she's too good for me" trap and end up dating someone that they "think they deserve" which normally ends up being some of questionable staying power in their lives. Or just someone questionable in general. Although, pooling for "how long until they break up" can be an interesting game.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Sounds like overcompensating for something. And again, qualities generally found in terrible people. Qualities that basically DEFINE terrible, sociopathic people.
Its interesting you define the world in terms of ">decent", "hideous", "Unattractive", etc.
Everything is relative. If a hot model were to meet you, ask you out, then when she met you at the bar for drinks, her & her friends showed up with their successful boyfriends and started laughing at you: "and he drove a corvette and he was bragging about it... Doesn't he look like an even uglier K-fed? He told me to touch his abs... Bwahahaha and he was BRAGGING that he makes $25 an hour! Seriously! Bragging about making $50K. He thought he could be with me.. It's cute.. K-fed Jr. Oh, I can't breathe! Oh we're done with you, now, thanks for the Laughs. Drive your 'vette back to the trailer park..."
What would you think of that?
I would think that she sounds kind of like you.
Nobody said you have to "settle". Date whomever you like
Just don't get why you would think its funny to find somebody who is born with unusually bad looks, and humiliate them. As if you're somehow entitled. Isnt that what we once did in K-garten and now are ashamed of ourselves about? Like picking on kids who are in special ed?
Your corvette and your $25 an hour job and are no different than money. A woman who wants to be with you for your corvette and job is just trying to get paid. So far you haven't described one positive quality about your personality, but you've described some terrible ones.
sorry, not to be mean here, but you've described yourself as a good looking guy with a great body, and an awful personality.
You'll probably end up with the same... In a girl.
Sure it's choice
yeah, just keep waiting. I'm sure that one of those is on her way right now.
Joke's on you. Have you considered the possibility that the reason you're alone is because YOUR personality falls short, and they "can still sleep with you at least."? They get to touch your 6 pack abs, ride the vette, and not have to listen to your vapid, self absorbed chit chat? Just asking is all...
see above.
some advice: You may be the smartest, best looking, guy you know, but really, your looks and your body will go bad a lot sooner than 30 years.
Unless you play pro sports for a living, the chances of you keeping that 6 pack into your mid-20s is really low. Plus you may be smart but without an advanced degree, you'll probably end up financially falling far behind those who get doctorates and professional degrees. $25 an hour is nothing to brag about. Lets see if you still have a job in a year. You may not have your hair in 5 years. Very good chance you'll lose it before you're 30.
19 year olds on your current track usually don't age gracefully.
Like Belgareth, I too find myself suspecting a huge amount of insecurity in a person who finds it funny to just go out of your way to be mean to people who are less good looking or less smart than you. That kind of behavior is UGLY. And sad. No way to sugarcoat that part.
Also, based on what you've stated here, it doesnt sound like you have any real "game": You're 19, good looking, have a great body, some money, and a nice car.
Being able to sleep with a bunch of high school and college girls doesn't mean you have game.
Being able to sleep with a bunch of high school and college girls means you're 19, good looking, have a great body, some money, and a nice car.
Superficial girls may like those things so much that they would overlook your obvious cruelty and arrogance. Many girls who are just interested in a good time might overlook those flaws. But only horrible gold digging Hos are going to want to STAY with a a cruel, arrogant person.
Honestly ask yourself: "other than possession or ownership or trophy value or your money, why would a girl ever want to BE with you? If you're not a kind, tender, loyal, gentle person, why would another human want to BE with an arrogant self centered person like you? What's so great about spending time with your mean self?"
Most people I have ever known with REAL "game" understood people really well, and had serious empathy. They wouldn't go out of their way to be mean to girls who were "beneath their standards". Guys with serious game might ignore somebody "beneath" them, but they don't make sport of people with less. You're 19 so I should cut you some slack, but cruelty is ugly, and theres no excuse for it as an adult.
game /=/ personality, btw. how many guys get all the girls BECAUSE they're *******s? girls LIKE douchebags like me.
Also, this is the internet, so i'm not gonna be listing good, positive things about my personality lmao. what's the point? i've got a few redeeming qualities, nothing i'd particularly care to talk about, but it's important. you're making the judgement that i get success with mates based purely for physical reasons without knowing much about my personality. and let's be real here for a moment, even a world class psychologist can't tell much about a person based on their posts on an anonymous forum on the internet when dealing with a bunch of strangers.
yeah, it's happened that girls have tried to use me for my looks/success before, but i'm pretty quick to pick up on that, and so far i've been able to turn the tables most of the time. there was one girl that just completely crushed me about a year ago, but now i blame myself for not seeing it sooner.
in the end, i'm not a great guy. i probably don't even qualify for what most people consider "good." but i'm far from the worst person around, and the important thing is that i've got some REAL friends who think im a similar manner to me, and i live comfortably and happily, and judging from the way a lot of people post here, happiness is something that eludes a lot of you, so i'm sorry for that.
Vapid, shallow, unintelligent girls maybe.
You're not impressing anyone. Go manscape your pubic hair, or whatever it is you like to do.
jealous? you should be, cause i'm everything you want to be but aren't.
Wow, I'm so impressed by this its amazing. You're a mangod and a symbolic alpha male we can all look up to.
You have sixpack abs!!!! OMG how awesome!
You bought a vette!!!! WTFBBQ!!!
This almost reminds me of that one thread that one time where you told everyone how badass you were beating up some girls stepdad who got in your face.
EDIT: LOL I found it http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7953793&postcount=28
Yes folks, Rivaltuna is a demigod! Bow down!
Sounds to me like the kind of post a poser posts bragging about his awesomeness as if that awesomeness is readily aparent from a computer screen.
Internet warriors....they get tougher everyday LOL
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
You're such a rebel.
Also, all you nerds keep raging. This is the first and only time you've ever been able to talk **** to the kind of people who shunned you in high school without having to deal with backlash, it's cute.
This has been going on for eons. It was played by both men and women when I went to college for large sums of money. It got to the point where monies would get split between the winner and the 'date' if they won.
I think people need to really start toughening up a bit. It seems every little thing that talks about looks or life style choices gets people up in arms one way or the other. We cant live others lives for them. Live and let live.
This is a lot like the crowning "king of fools" at the beginning of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". If everybody is a knowing participant, its one thing, but in the variations i've heard of, the "date" doesnt know they're being recruited for an "ugly date contest". They humiliatingly figure it out after they get there.
Nobody said it was a crime. Nobody suggested a law banning it. Nobody said to put people in jail for it.
It's unlikely a girl is going to commit suicide over it. Probably some will cry after they go home. Be humiliated, maybe share it with mom, maybe too humiliated to talk to their friends about it. Whatever, they got tougher. Yay, you!
Exactly. Leave people alone. If you think you're so great that you are better looking than some girl, don't lie to her and make some cruel joke out of her. Live and let live.
I've not called for any sanctions against a player of the "dogfight". I've only pointed out how pointlessly mean it is. It's not like I'm holding adults to a ridiculously high standard of behavior. You have kids. Would your heart swell with pride if you saw one of them, at 18 years of age, doing this to some girl who's crushing on him? Inviting this "ugly chick" to the "dogfight"? I would be sitting him down and telling him "you're better than this. Just because those ****ups at school do it doesn't mean you have to be a sheep."
Heres where you and I disagree. I was bullied, hazed, got the crap beat out of me growing up, it made me a better person. It made me understand my short comings. (nad no matter how much todays generatons want to believe thy have no short comings, they do, and no way for them to understand what they are) I feel for those who dont go thru some type of coming of age rituals we as a society use to have. I see it in the generations of today, they are much weaker mentally and physically.
You totally missed what I was trying to say. I can see you are up in arms about this and upset by the practice. I will just move on and let you stew in your anger over something you can change or control.