Somebody talked about fight club.
Three Delaware day care employees have been accused of encouraging toddlers to fight each other while the children were under their care.
CBS Philly reported that Tiana Harris, 19, Lisa Parker, 47, and Estefania Myers, 21, employees of the Hands of Our Future Daycare in Dover, were arrested after a cellphone video emerged of them allegedly encouraging two 3-year-olds to fight in an organized battle.
Police said in the video one child is heard yelling, "He’s pinching me!" A day care worker allegedly responded, "No pinching, only punching."
While I agree with the blog on which I found this article that this would make a hilarious S&L skit there are serious problems going on here since this is apparently happening in real life.
I have two boys and I understand the need for self sufficiency. My younger child is smaller and a bit scrappy. I'm not afraid to watch him a take a couple whacks from his older brother because it helps him learn boundaries. I'm not going to encourage them to fight like some people do.
What if these workers were parents. Would this have been ok?
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Maybe the women where boxing fans trying to re enact a epic duel from the past. I think the Irish babies would have a unfair advantage in that respect.
This post adds nothing to the discussion and is offensive both towards Irish people and people who have suffered violence. Infraction issued.
- Teia
Making jokes about children being encouraged to fight is inappropriate. Given the nature of the issue, please keep discussion mature and refrain from disrespectful and potentially offensive humour.
Making jokes about children being encouraged to fight is inappropriate. Given the nature of the issue, please keep discussion mature and refrain from disrespectful and potentially offensive humour.
I suppose any "Hunger Games" references get thrown out the window immediately as well?
On topic: This is terrible. Children should not be encouraged to work or to fight. Society and surviving day-to-day life is already brutal enough as it is, but that doesn't mean we should encourage children to already start behaving in such a manner. It's a violation of fundamental human rights.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
I think the workers simply got to the point of frustration in dealing with fighting children that they just decided to encourage it. That should be about the point in which you decide to switch your career path, not cross the line. Kids are going to fight over things. Hell, adults fight over things.
I suppose any "Hunger Games" references get thrown out the window immediately as well?
Depends. The Hunger Games attempts to prove the point that the games themselves are bad. Taking that route to make a point that glorifying child violence is a bad thing, for example, is acceptable. Making joking references to The Hunger Games that glorify child violence is inappropriate. It's one of those subjects where treatment of the underlying issues can vary greatly between fiction and real life, so what's acceptable entertainment in a fictional setting is reprehensible in a real life setting.
Edit: I should hasten to add that this is less about policing thoughts/opinions and more about ensuring certain lines don't get crossed, akin to the de facto forbidden positions in the Debate subforum.
We start our children in sports at such young ages, I wonder how this would have played out if the parents had known and given permission.
Father of 4 here, 2 boys, and 2 girls. All 4 of them were in some type of hand to hand combat sport (martial arts, boxing, wrestling) by the age of 7. I have seen kids as young as 3 in martial arts classes.
The only thing I see wrong with this situation is they did this without parental consent. I think many would be surprised how many parents would allow this, especially when you go to a youth wrestling tournament or martial arts tournament and you see hundreds of preteen children 'battling' each other.
Its not just the lack of consent that is the issue. In the case of an organized wrestling meet or martial arts tournament there is hopefully going to be sufficient medical support in case something goes wrong and there are strict rules in place to protect the participants.
Since both of these events were clandestine there was none of that and a greater risk of something going wrong and these kids getting seriously hurt.
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All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
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We start our children in sports at such young ages, I wonder how this would have played out if the parents had known and given permission.
Father of 4 here, 2 boys, and 2 girls. All 4 of them were in some type of hand to hand combat sport (martial arts, boxing, wrestling) by the age of 7. I have seen kids as young as 3 in martial arts classes.
The only thing I see wrong with this situation is they did this without parental consent. I think many would be surprised how many parents would allow this, especially when you go to a youth wrestling tournament or martial arts tournament and you see hundreds of preteen children 'battling' each other.
again there is a huge difference between an organized sport such as football and martial arts that have rules and refs and other things and what this was.
any martial arts class i took was always self defense not offense. self discipline etc...
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again there is a huge difference between an organized sport such as football and martial arts that have rules and refs and other things and what this was.
any martial arts class i took was always self defense not offense. self discipline etc...
My oldest son started boxing by age 7 and they would put them in the ring (with head gear) and beat the crap out of each other. My daughter got a broken nose in a martial arts tournament. So dont tell me martial arts is all about defense. You can only score if you attack.
Since both of these events were clandestine there was none of that and a greater risk of something going wrong and these kids getting seriously hurt.
In the states, someone at the daycare must be trained and certified in first aid. We dont know from the story if one of the ladies did or didnt have that type training. As for getting seriously hurt, kids get seriously hurt with their parents and it doesnt make front page news. I have seen kids, preteens, break bones, spit up blood and be knocked out in practice, let alone sporting events that the parents have given consent.
I am not condoning people using other people children in this way. I am just pointing out parents sign their kids up for events that can get the kids just as hurt. This is all about consent.
My oldest son started boxing by age 7 and they would put them in the ring (with head gear) and beat the crap out of each other. My daughter got a broken nose in a martial arts tournament. So dont tell me martial arts is all about defense. You can only score if you attack.
again organized with refs and someone with medical training usually unless it is a small tourny.
martial arts is about defense. If you have an instructor teaching kids to go out and beat the snot out of other people then they are a bad instructor.
again tourny. i know all about them i was in martial arts for about 5 years.
which also require safety equipment such as helmets and foot pads and usually gloves of some kind.
As for getting seriously hurt, kids get seriously hurt with their parents and it doesnt make front page news.
yea because most parents don't put their kids into fight clubs to have them beat up other kids.
I am not condoning people using other people children in this way. I am just pointing out parents sign their kids up for events that can get the kids just as hurt. This is all about consent.
It has nothing to do with consent at all. Parents put their kids in day care to play with others learn etc ... they don't put them in there to have underground fighting matches with other kids.
they expect the day care to be a safe enviroment not a backyard brawl.
also it wasn't like the kids signed up for it they were forced to do it.
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The care workers should be maximally punished for child abuse. They are fortunate that a hotheaded parent did not stumble on this because I know many men that would probably thrash or even kill a babysitter for "dog-fighting" their kid. Very rational men otherwise, but when children are involved, parents become different animals.
again organized with refs and someone with medical training usually unless it is a small tourny.
martial arts is about defense. If you have an instructor teaching kids to go out and beat the snot out of other people then they are a bad instructor.
again tourny. i know all about them i was in martial arts for about 5 years.
which also require safety equipment such as helmets and foot pads and usually gloves of some kind.
yea because most parents don't put their kids into fight clubs to have them beat up other kids.
It has nothing to do with consent at all. Parents put their kids in day care to play with others learn etc ... they don't put them in there to have underground fighting matches with other kids.
they expect the day care to be a safe enviroment not a backyard brawl.
also it wasn't like the kids signed up for it they were forced to do it.
I will agree to disagree like usual with you. I dont know where or when you were brought up, but our outlooks on everything from politics to child care are at opposite sides of every debate.
The care workers should be maximally punished for child abuse. They are fortunate that a hotheaded parent did not stumble on this because I know many men that would probably thrash or even kill a babysitter for "dog-fighting" their kid. Very rational men otherwise, but when children are involved, parents become different animals.
I know these types too, and I wonder what kind of activities they enroll their children in with consent.
Its not just the lack of consent that is the issue. In the case of an organized wrestling meet or martial arts tournament there is hopefully going to be sufficient medical support in case something goes wrong and there are strict rules in place to protect the participants.
This is all true. Also, while I would not want any children of mine (if I had any) to be in any wrestling or martial arts tournaments at that age, keep in mind the point of such contests.
Kids martial arts/wrestling is not "fighting for the sake of fighting." Those are sports: there are fair play rules, and the purpose is not just to hurt someone.
This is despicable.
Quote from bocephus »
The only thing I see wrong with this situation is they did this without parental consent. I think many would be surprised how many parents would allow this, especially when you go to a youth wrestling tournament or martial arts tournament and you see hundreds of preteen children 'battling' each other.
That's the only thing you see wrong with this? Really???
Quote from bocephus »
My oldest son started boxing by age 7 and they would put them in the ring (with head gear) and beat the crap out of each other. My daughter got a broken nose in a martial arts tournament. So dont tell me martial arts is all about defense. You can only score if you attack.
I was willing to give the smallest benefit of the doubt to parents that get their kids involved in such activities. Not so much here.
What is the difference between encouraging your kids to get themselves beat up and just beating them up yourself? You have made it sound as if you enjoy this.
I am not condoning people using other people children in this way. I am just pointing out parents sign their kids up for events that can get the kids just as hurt. This is all about consent.
No, not JUST consent.
At least as big a problem is that these kids are being set upon each other to fight against their will in a contest by Adult Authority figures in a fight where they do not know the limitations or boundaries of how much they can hurt or be hurt. Some are experiencing serious fear and have no idea whether they will be humiliated or seriously hurt.
If they cry or are hurt, they are likely being ridiculed by the adult authority figures, and while tasting pain, fear or blood, or pissing or crapping their pants, some ******* daycare giver is cheering on the other kid and laughing at the loser? Meanwhile the winner is being trained to be a bully, and rewarded with accolades from the daycare workers... which will also be a very negative teaching point for him as well.
The kids involved in one of these fights have no guidance, and have no perspective. There is absolutely no feeling of safety that would come with a parentally sanctioned martial arts contest, which children can potentially say "no" to. kids probably bite in these fights because they're scared and have no idea whether this is "play" of "real".
All they got is flight or fight with nobody to frame perspective.
I frankly think you're full of **** when you minimize this.
Some ******* adult having some other big kid slap my smaller kid around is just as bad as doin it himself.
This is all true. Also, while I would not want any children of mine (if I had any) to be in any wrestling or martial arts tournaments at that age, keep in mind the point of such contests.
Kids martial arts/wrestling is not "fighting for the sake of fighting." Those are sports: there are fair play rules, and the purpose is not just to hurt someone.
This is despicable.
That's the only thing you see wrong with this? Really???
I was willing to give the smallest benefit of the doubt to parents that get their kids involved in such activities. Not so much here.
What is the difference between encouraging your kids to get themselves beat up and just beating them up yourself? You have made it sound as if you enjoy this.
So boxing isnt a sport? Parents want their children active, if you are going to stop parents from signing their kids up (at any age) for athletic activities, we will have a population of over weight out of shape kids... oh wait, my bad.
Competitive martial arts is brutal and fighting in every sense. Wrestling isnt fighting in the normal sense but kids are taught how to put other children into submission. Usually the younger you start a child in sports the better they will become in that sport. Look at non-contact sports such as gymnastics (which they start at 3 and 4) or swimming ( again 3 or 4).
I enjoyed participating and watching my kids compete in hand to hand combat sports.
All I see wrong with this situation is the consent angle.
I will agree to disagree like usual with you. I dont know where or when you were brought up, but our outlooks on everything from politics to child care are at opposite sides of every debate.
because you are making an accusation that isn't true. It has nothing to do with constent of a parent.
you are trying to compare moderated sports to a free for all like this was.
if you take karate or boxing then there are expectations. I also know that there are safety gear that is used for younger kids as well.
that is not the case in this situation. it is a free for all. there are things in boxing and in karate that are considered illegal moves that are not allowed because they can cause serious injury.
aka i know moves that can stop someone's heart. i know how to break you knee among other things yet those moves are illegal in any karate tourny.
it isn't where i was raised or where i come from. you are trying to frame the discussion into a box.
All I see wrong with this situation is the consent angle.
they are 3 year olds. it has nothing to do with consent at all. you keep bring this up but you don't seem to understand why people have a problem.
So boxing isnt a sport? Parents want their children active, if you are going to stop parents from signing their kids up (at any age) for athletic activities, we will have a population of over weight out of shape kids... oh wait, my bad.
please quote where anyone said this. no one has said anything about it and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Competitive martial arts is brutal and fighting in every sense. Wrestling isnt fighting in the normal sense but kids are taught how to put other children into submission. Usually the younger you start a child in sports the better they will become in that sport. Look at non-contact sports such as gymnastics (which they start at 3 and 4) or swimming ( again 3 or 4).
again this has nothing to do with what is being discussed. again those things are moderated with a ref and other medical personel. a free for all at a day care resembles none of that.
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Boxing is a sport that I don't personally care for and that I don't think anyone should be doing, but that is neither here nor there.
Boxers are usually adults, capable of making their own choices. Or at the very least, children of an age where they are capable of making some reasonably well-informed choices.
Here we're talking about little kids, at the mercy of their parents or caregivers.
Do I think parents or caregivers should encourage little kids to engage in sports where there is an extremely high chance that they will suffer bodily damage? Hell no. That's not sport in my opinion, that's child endangerment.
Parents want their children active, if you are going to stop parents from signing their kids up (at any age) for athletic activities, we will have a population of over weight out of shape kids... oh wait, my bad.
Oh come on. I'm pretty sure that kids (and adults, too) can stay in shape without physical combat. If an adult does choose to do that, then at least that's his/her choice. If a teen does choose to do that, then at least that's his/her choice, to a degree.
Little children? 3 year olds? 7 year olds?
Competitive martial arts is brutal and fighting in every sense. Wrestling isnt fighting in the normal sense but kids are taught how to put other children into submission. Usually the younger you start a child in sports the better they will become in that sport. Look at non-contact sports such as gymnastics (which they start at 3 and 4) or swimming ( again 3 or 4).
I enjoyed participating and watching my kids compete in hand to hand combat sports.
All I see wrong with this situation is the consent angle.
So let's see if I understand you now.
Toddler Fight Club begins. Ding ding ding.
The caregivers tell 3 year old Bobby to get in the ring, at which point he is punched square in the head several times.
First aid is administered, but the injury is too severe, so 3 year old Bobby is rushed to the emergency room.
There, the parents are informed that 3 year old Bobby has suffered serious brain damage.
A cop shows up, and asks the parents, "Did they have your permission to let little Bobby engage in pre-school fight club?"
The parents are like, "Yep, we signed off on the permission slip."
So the cop says, "Well hey, as long as you were cool with it. Move along, nothing to see here."
Is that about right?
Do you realize that this is not even legal with dogs, let alone toddlers?
Boxing is a sport that I don't personally care for and that I don't think anyone should be doing, but that is neither here nor there.
Boxers are usually adults, capable of making their own choices. Or at the very least, children of an age where they are capable of making some reasonably well-informed choices.
Here we're talking about little kids, at the mercy of their parents or caregivers.
Do I think parents or caregivers should encourage little kids to engage in sports where there is an extremely high chance that they will suffer bodily damage? Hell no. That's not sport in my opinion, that's child endangerment.
Oh come on. I'm pretty sure that kids (and adults, too) can stay in shape without physical combat. If an adult does choose to do that, then at least that's his/her choice. If a teen does choose to do that, then at least that's his/her choice, to a degree.
Little children? 3 year olds? 7 year olds?
So let's see if I understand you now.
Toddler Fight Club begins. Ding ding ding.
The caregivers tell 3 year old Bobby to get in the ring, at which point he is punched square in the head several times.
First aid is administered, but the injury is too severe, so 3 year old Bobby is rushed to the emergency room.
There, the parents are informed that 3 year old Bobby has suffered serious brain damage.
A cop shows up, and asks the parents, "Did they have your permission to let little Bobby engage in pre-school fight club?"
The parents are like, "Yep, we signed off on the permission slip."
So the cop says, "Well hey, as long as you were cool with it. Move along, nothing to see here."
Is that about right?
Do you realize that this is not even legal with dogs, let alone toddlers?
My point is parents sign their children up for just as dangerous stuff as what was being done with the toddler fight club. Its ok when a parent signs a young child up for martial arts or boxing or wrestling which can all hurt the child as bad if not worse then what was going on here.
Aggressive combat style sports are human nature and have been around as long as history has been written, probably before. Trying to fight your nature is a losing battle.
My point is parents sign their children up for just as dangerous stuff as what was being done with the toddler fight club. Its ok when a parent signs a young child up for martial arts or boxing or wrestling which can all hurt the child as bad if not worse then what was going on here.
as far as i know they don't take 3 year olds in karate classes. mostly due to insurance reasons. i think the youngest they have to be is 5 or at least 6.
again this has nothing to do with the topic so i still don't understand why you keep bringing it up.
also parents that do enroll their child in these their kids have an interest in it. they are not forced to do it against their will.
Aggressive combat style sports are human nature and have been around as long as history has been written, probably before. Trying to fight your nature is a losing battle.
not to a 3 year old it isn't. they have no concept of it. they don't understand heck they can barely talk.
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as far as i know they don't take 3 year olds in karate classes. mostly due to insurance reasons. i think the youngest they have to be is 5 or at least 6.
again this has nothing to do with the topic so i still don't understand why you keep bringing it up.
also parents that do enroll their child in these their kids have an interest in it. they are not forced to do it against their will.
not to a 3 year old it isn't. they have no concept of it. they don't understand heck they can barely talk.
Really parents dont force things on their kids? A 3 year old cant show interest in something other then cartoons and toys? 3 is the lowest age they take for martial arts around me but it also has to do with other factors, size and speaking, toilet trained and such. For wrestling they have state tournaments for kids as young as 3 and 4.
Again, If the parents are signing up children for these type activities, the only problem with this is consent. I dont see people picketing martial arts tournaments with single digit aged children fighting, or wrestling tournaments with 3 and 4 year olds being picketed. I understand the ladies didnt have permission and they are making the kids do things that the parents dont know about. That is consent.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/21/daycare-workers-accused-running-toddler-fight-club/
While I agree with the blog on which I found this article that this would make a hilarious S&L skit there are serious problems going on here since this is apparently happening in real life.
I have two boys and I understand the need for self sufficiency. My younger child is smaller and a bit scrappy. I'm not afraid to watch him a take a couple whacks from his older brother because it helps him learn boundaries. I'm not going to encourage them to fight like some people do.
What if these workers were parents. Would this have been ok?
i would be very upset and furious if i learned that day care people allowed my kid to get beat up by someone else because they egged it on.
my 2 boys fight over toys all the time but they get in trouble if they start hitting. i wrestle with them but it is nothing serious.
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Suggesting that harmful criminal activity towards children is of benefit to them is trolling. Warning issued.
- Teia
This post adds nothing to the discussion and is offensive both towards Irish people and people who have suffered violence. Infraction issued.
- Teia
http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/19220403/authorities-investigating-inappropriate-fight-club-at-summer-camp
Infraction for flaming --Senori
I suppose any "Hunger Games" references get thrown out the window immediately as well?
On topic: This is terrible. Children should not be encouraged to work or to fight. Society and surviving day-to-day life is already brutal enough as it is, but that doesn't mean we should encourage children to already start behaving in such a manner. It's a violation of fundamental human rights.
How well do you do against one?
Depends. The Hunger Games attempts to prove the point that the games themselves are bad. Taking that route to make a point that glorifying child violence is a bad thing, for example, is acceptable. Making joking references to The Hunger Games that glorify child violence is inappropriate. It's one of those subjects where treatment of the underlying issues can vary greatly between fiction and real life, so what's acceptable entertainment in a fictional setting is reprehensible in a real life setting.
Edit: I should hasten to add that this is less about policing thoughts/opinions and more about ensuring certain lines don't get crossed, akin to the de facto forbidden positions in the Debate subforum.
Father of 4 here, 2 boys, and 2 girls. All 4 of them were in some type of hand to hand combat sport (martial arts, boxing, wrestling) by the age of 7. I have seen kids as young as 3 in martial arts classes.
The only thing I see wrong with this situation is they did this without parental consent. I think many would be surprised how many parents would allow this, especially when you go to a youth wrestling tournament or martial arts tournament and you see hundreds of preteen children 'battling' each other.
Since both of these events were clandestine there was none of that and a greater risk of something going wrong and these kids getting seriously hurt.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
again there is a huge difference between an organized sport such as football and martial arts that have rules and refs and other things and what this was.
any martial arts class i took was always self defense not offense. self discipline etc...
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
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My oldest son started boxing by age 7 and they would put them in the ring (with head gear) and beat the crap out of each other. My daughter got a broken nose in a martial arts tournament. So dont tell me martial arts is all about defense. You can only score if you attack.
In the states, someone at the daycare must be trained and certified in first aid. We dont know from the story if one of the ladies did or didnt have that type training. As for getting seriously hurt, kids get seriously hurt with their parents and it doesnt make front page news. I have seen kids, preteens, break bones, spit up blood and be knocked out in practice, let alone sporting events that the parents have given consent.
I am not condoning people using other people children in this way. I am just pointing out parents sign their kids up for events that can get the kids just as hurt. This is all about consent.
again organized with refs and someone with medical training usually unless it is a small tourny.
martial arts is about defense. If you have an instructor teaching kids to go out and beat the snot out of other people then they are a bad instructor.
again tourny. i know all about them i was in martial arts for about 5 years.
which also require safety equipment such as helmets and foot pads and usually gloves of some kind.
yea because most parents don't put their kids into fight clubs to have them beat up other kids.
It has nothing to do with consent at all. Parents put their kids in day care to play with others learn etc ... they don't put them in there to have underground fighting matches with other kids.
they expect the day care to be a safe enviroment not a backyard brawl.
also it wasn't like the kids signed up for it they were forced to do it.
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I will agree to disagree like usual with you. I dont know where or when you were brought up, but our outlooks on everything from politics to child care are at opposite sides of every debate.
I know these types too, and I wonder what kind of activities they enroll their children in with consent.
This is all true. Also, while I would not want any children of mine (if I had any) to be in any wrestling or martial arts tournaments at that age, keep in mind the point of such contests.
Kids martial arts/wrestling is not "fighting for the sake of fighting." Those are sports: there are fair play rules, and the purpose is not just to hurt someone.
This is despicable.
That's the only thing you see wrong with this? Really???
I was willing to give the smallest benefit of the doubt to parents that get their kids involved in such activities. Not so much here.
What is the difference between encouraging your kids to get themselves beat up and just beating them up yourself? You have made it sound as if you enjoy this.
At least as big a problem is that these kids are being set upon each other to fight against their will in a contest by Adult Authority figures in a fight where they do not know the limitations or boundaries of how much they can hurt or be hurt. Some are experiencing serious fear and have no idea whether they will be humiliated or seriously hurt.
If they cry or are hurt, they are likely being ridiculed by the adult authority figures, and while tasting pain, fear or blood, or pissing or crapping their pants, some ******* daycare giver is cheering on the other kid and laughing at the loser? Meanwhile the winner is being trained to be a bully, and rewarded with accolades from the daycare workers... which will also be a very negative teaching point for him as well.
The kids involved in one of these fights have no guidance, and have no perspective. There is absolutely no feeling of safety that would come with a parentally sanctioned martial arts contest, which children can potentially say "no" to. kids probably bite in these fights because they're scared and have no idea whether this is "play" of "real".
All they got is flight or fight with nobody to frame perspective.
I frankly think you're full of **** when you minimize this.
Some ******* adult having some other big kid slap my smaller kid around is just as bad as doin it himself.
So boxing isnt a sport? Parents want their children active, if you are going to stop parents from signing their kids up (at any age) for athletic activities, we will have a population of over weight out of shape kids... oh wait, my bad.
Competitive martial arts is brutal and fighting in every sense. Wrestling isnt fighting in the normal sense but kids are taught how to put other children into submission. Usually the younger you start a child in sports the better they will become in that sport. Look at non-contact sports such as gymnastics (which they start at 3 and 4) or swimming ( again 3 or 4).
I enjoyed participating and watching my kids compete in hand to hand combat sports.
All I see wrong with this situation is the consent angle.
because you are making an accusation that isn't true. It has nothing to do with constent of a parent.
you are trying to compare moderated sports to a free for all like this was.
if you take karate or boxing then there are expectations. I also know that there are safety gear that is used for younger kids as well.
that is not the case in this situation. it is a free for all. there are things in boxing and in karate that are considered illegal moves that are not allowed because they can cause serious injury.
aka i know moves that can stop someone's heart. i know how to break you knee among other things yet those moves are illegal in any karate tourny.
it isn't where i was raised or where i come from. you are trying to frame the discussion into a box.
they are 3 year olds. it has nothing to do with consent at all. you keep bring this up but you don't seem to understand why people have a problem.
please quote where anyone said this. no one has said anything about it and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
again this has nothing to do with what is being discussed. again those things are moderated with a ref and other medical personel. a free for all at a day care resembles none of that.
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Boxing is a sport that I don't personally care for and that I don't think anyone should be doing, but that is neither here nor there.
Boxers are usually adults, capable of making their own choices. Or at the very least, children of an age where they are capable of making some reasonably well-informed choices.
Here we're talking about little kids, at the mercy of their parents or caregivers.
Do I think parents or caregivers should encourage little kids to engage in sports where there is an extremely high chance that they will suffer bodily damage? Hell no. That's not sport in my opinion, that's child endangerment.
Oh come on. I'm pretty sure that kids (and adults, too) can stay in shape without physical combat. If an adult does choose to do that, then at least that's his/her choice. If a teen does choose to do that, then at least that's his/her choice, to a degree.
Little children? 3 year olds? 7 year olds?
So let's see if I understand you now.
Toddler Fight Club begins. Ding ding ding.
The caregivers tell 3 year old Bobby to get in the ring, at which point he is punched square in the head several times.
First aid is administered, but the injury is too severe, so 3 year old Bobby is rushed to the emergency room.
There, the parents are informed that 3 year old Bobby has suffered serious brain damage.
A cop shows up, and asks the parents, "Did they have your permission to let little Bobby engage in pre-school fight club?"
The parents are like, "Yep, we signed off on the permission slip."
So the cop says, "Well hey, as long as you were cool with it. Move along, nothing to see here."
Is that about right?
Do you realize that this is not even legal with dogs, let alone toddlers?
My point is parents sign their children up for just as dangerous stuff as what was being done with the toddler fight club. Its ok when a parent signs a young child up for martial arts or boxing or wrestling which can all hurt the child as bad if not worse then what was going on here.
Aggressive combat style sports are human nature and have been around as long as history has been written, probably before. Trying to fight your nature is a losing battle.
as far as i know they don't take 3 year olds in karate classes. mostly due to insurance reasons. i think the youngest they have to be is 5 or at least 6.
again this has nothing to do with the topic so i still don't understand why you keep bringing it up.
also parents that do enroll their child in these their kids have an interest in it. they are not forced to do it against their will.
not to a 3 year old it isn't. they have no concept of it. they don't understand heck they can barely talk.
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Really parents dont force things on their kids? A 3 year old cant show interest in something other then cartoons and toys? 3 is the lowest age they take for martial arts around me but it also has to do with other factors, size and speaking, toilet trained and such. For wrestling they have state tournaments for kids as young as 3 and 4.
Again, If the parents are signing up children for these type activities, the only problem with this is consent. I dont see people picketing martial arts tournaments with single digit aged children fighting, or wrestling tournaments with 3 and 4 year olds being picketed. I understand the ladies didnt have permission and they are making the kids do things that the parents dont know about. That is consent.