I want to propose to my girlfriend, and it's our 3 year anniversary on the 7th January. I was thinking of asking the question then. I just don't know if I should tell anyone in my family or her's about it, because I'd still probably propose to her even if people said otherwise. Also I have not found a ring yet. Thinking of looking and getting it before January. We still don't live together, but have lived for a week or two multiple times over our time together.
I'm just wondering:
- Is it to late in the year to come up with a ring? (She says she doesn't want anything expensive, so it'd be under $100)
- You reckon it's the right time? (as in on the anniversary)
- Should I tell anyone before I ask the question to her herself? (like parents or friends)
Edit: Also I forgot:
- her sister lost her baby about a month ago, so I don't know if it's ok to ask her 2 months after the death of a family member?
- and next year I will be 22, her 20.
You only get one chance to propose and the story will be with the two of you forever, so please do try to make it a story she's going to be happy to tell her friends and your children.
All of her friends will want to know how you did it and they will want to see the ring. I'm not saying to have to play into those expectations, but you should be well aware that they exist.
- Is it to late in the year to come up with a ring?
You can walk out of a store with a ring, but it might need to be resized. It can be resized after it's presented - that's not a big deal and pretty common.
Are you asking whether you are old enough? I'm sure if you spent some time on the google that you'd find an article or three about how marriages that happen later in life tend to be more successful. That said, odds are that you are not the statistics - you probably have a pretty good idea of whether you are ready for a lifetime commitment.
I just don't know if I should tell anyone in my family or her's about it, because I'd still probably propose to her even if people said otherwise.
- Should I tell anyone before I ask the question to her herself?
In the US, it's customary (an obsolete custom, I'm sure, but it still exists) to ask her father permission to marry. Trust me when I say that you are going to want her parents on your side in the coming years. If you can start off right by asking (and receiving) permission, that would be HIGHLY recommended.
Edit: w/r/t the baby - that's a tragedy. While the mother certainly will not have moved on by now, you are in a better place to gauge the current level of your GF's grief (and her parents) than we would be.
In the US, it's customary (an obsolete custom, I'm sure, but it still exists) to ask her father permission to marry. Trust me when I say that you are going to want her parents on your side in the coming years. If you can start off right by asking (and receiving) permission, that would be HIGHLY recommended.
This was asked, but it partially part of tradition or custom and common courtesy or respect.
Most of cme's post are good words, and I cannot add more to it. Some of it comes off as a little offensive to me, but I am happy to see that someone gets it. That having been said, I don't agree with this: "You only get one chance to propose and the story will be with the two of you forever, so please do try to make it a story she's going to be happy to tell her friends and your children."
- her sister lost her baby about a month ago, so I don't know if it's ok to ask her 2 months after the death of a family member?
In my culture, which is now Australianised / New Zealandified, it is still too soon in light of such unhappy circumstances. If you are meant to be, unless there are particular reasons, broaching the question later won't be any different from broaching the question a little later. If anything, it will make things a little less intense for everyone, and everyone will be a little more level-minded.
I'm just wondering:
- Is it to late in the year to come up with a ring? (She says she doesn't want anything expensive, so it'd be under $100)
- You reckon it's the right time? (as in on the anniversary)
- Should I tell anyone before I ask the question to her herself? (like parents or friends)
Really, there's no right or wrong; neither of you will be completely ready for this, for having kids, for raising kids, etc. No one is ready for anything, so simply try to do your best and leave it that.
Beyond that, I don't really know enough about you kids, but anniversaries are rather arbitrary times to propose. My guiding principle is whenever it feels and whenever you guys think it's right.
Regarding the ring, it seems shoddy to not splurge on a ring. Tentatively, a cheap one will do but some of these also aren't chemically stable or are otherwise crappy and undergo chemical reactions (such as oxidation), which can leave marks on your loved one's finger.
Then there's the whole thing with a lot of women. The size of the rock is important, as is the constituents of the band itself. I have a lot of friends who make a big deal out of this.
Your girlfriend could be content with a sweet and simple symbol of your love, but you know her better than we do.
Though...
I want to propose to my girlfriend, and it's our 3 year anniversary on the 7th January. I was thinking of asking the question then. I just don't know if I should tell anyone in my family or her's about it, because I'd still probably propose to her even if people said otherwise. Also I have not found a ring yet. Thinking of looking and getting it before January. We still don't live together, but have lived for a week or two multiple times over our time together.
Could it be too soon for the both of you?
I don't want to raise fears, uncertainties and doubts or ruin things for you guys. It's just I wince away when I hear of young couples getting married when they're not too many years beyond the legal age and not that many years as independent adults. However, I also must remember that some people have been going with their future partners for ages and that they feel it's right. I also see many young couples a few years later and many years later looking back and ruing the day they were married (apparently, there was no silver lining to the entire enterprise).
I personally would have a talk (how ominous and unusual would, "babe, we need to talk" be, only for it to be laying down expectations and working towards a future together, not apart!). You guys should realise that relationships, even and especially after marriage, are difficult and that a crapload of marriages do not work out as a young, stupid and in love couple intends it to. You should work out why you're doing this, but don't overanalyze the crap out of it either.
Really, there's no right or wrong; neither of you will be completely ready for this, for having kids, for raising kids, etc. No one is ready for anything, so simply try to do your best and leave it that.
Beyond that, I don't really know enough about you kids, but anniversaries are rather arbitrary times to propose. My guiding principle is whenever it feels and whenever you guys think it's right.
Regarding the ring, it seems shoddy to not splurge on a ring. Tentatively, a cheap one will do but some of these also aren't chemically stable or are otherwise crappy and undergo chemical reactions (such as oxidation), which can leave marks on your loved one's finger.
Then there's the whole thing with a lot of women. The size of the rock is important, as is the constituents of the band itself. I have a lot of friends who make a big deal out of this.
Your girlfriend could be content with a sweet and simple symbol of your love, but you know her better than we do.
Though...
Could it be too soon for the both of you?
I don't want to raise fears, uncertainties and doubts or ruin things for you guys. It's just I wince away when I hear of young couples getting married when they're not too many years beyond the legal age and not that many years as independent adults. However, I also must remember that some people have been going with their future partners for ages and that they feel it's right. I also see many young couples a few years later and many years later looking back and ruing the day they were married (apparently, there was no silver lining to the entire enterprise).
I personally would have a talk (how ominous and unusual would, "babe, we need to talk" be, only for it to be laying down expectations and working towards a future together, not apart!). You guys should realise that relationships, even and especially after marriage, are difficult and that a crapload of marriages do not work out as a young, stupid and in love couple intends it to. You should work out why you're doing this, but don't overanalyze the crap out of it either.
I just assumed anniversaries were best way to go. I do want to propose to her. We have talked about our futures together. We have made plans for the next 5 years. I only ask if I should talk to her parents or somebody since I know that there are some rituals that girls like done before the question. As for the living apart, we spend 1/3 - 1/2 of a week together straight already. So is the anniversary to lame?
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Not lame at all, in my opinion. The actual date you propose is a small part of the memory - the bigger part that you'll remember later is how you went about doing it.
Wow. Dude, I'm going to be very blunt. And know that I'm not bein a troll or anything, but I gotta say it.
DO NOT. (Not yet at least)
First of all , I would highly advise that you two actually 'live together' first... it is a very important thing that you two can coexist in the same house for long periods of time. Everbody has quirks that can make or break things and you both need to know how to address and cope with each others 'finer qualities'. Couple of weeks just doesnt cut it... I've seen people be all about getting married, havin kids, washin the minivan, etc... until they move in with each other.:banghead:
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not just tryin to knock you down, I'm glad you've found someone you think highly enough of to consider marriage... that's great. I can attest to how good it can be when you live with the woman you love... and also how hard it can be.
Besides, you two are very young and have some time to think it through.
(Granted, you said her sis lost a young one recently, so life definitely can be short, no doubt.)
(Also, my condolences about the little one.)
But in my finish here, I'll just tell you what marriage really is... Paperwork.
My girlfriend and housemate of ten years are in complete agreement about this, and although we've considered getting 'married' (legal paperwork) just for the tax breaks, we both know that we don't have to spend thousands on a wedding and rings to know that we love each other...
because in the end, that's all it really boils down to anyway.
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Everbody has quirks that can make or break things and you both need to know how to address and cope with each others 'finer qualities'.
I DO agree strongly that successful conflict resolution is critical for a relationship. In addition to pre-marriage counseling (does anyone do this anymore?), we found the book Why Marriages Succeed or Fail by Gottman to be very informative about conflict styles, conflict behaviors to avoid, and conflict behaviors to reinforce. A key message is that conflict is inevitable - but also that it doesn't have to be negative; conflict can be a driver for improving the relationship (changing behavior, etc.)
Also, in summary to OP's questions,(on a lighter note) I'd say at least wait until next Jan. 7.
It'll give you a year to talk to both families about it, which you probably should do just to be respectful, considering you said you'd probably still ask her.
(Though I'm really no expert on these particular matters)
Maybe you two could look for a place together in the spring...?
Spend the summer n fall together... ...then BAM! Its next winter again and you'll both know yourselves and each other a little better.:hug:
Then you can pop for a nice rock with the money you tucked away all year and go get her, tiger...
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I just assumed anniversaries were best way to go. I do want to propose to her. We have talked about our futures together. We have made plans for the next 5 years. I only ask if I should talk to her parents or somebody since I know that there are some rituals that girls like done before the question. As for the living apart, we spend 1/3 - 1/2 of a week together straight already. So is the anniversary to lame?
Far from what I implied and further from what I said. YMMV and it depends with proposals anyway.
If she knows about this and these things, whatever you do, it's predictable. Predictability isn't necessary a bad thing.
I personally do not believe in anniversaries at all. It is good to appreciate the little things but I feel that if I were to celebrate them, I would lose sight of the bigger picture of the actual things being celebrated and cherished. To some people, they are important. To others, they are not. To others, they don't even make any good sense. Suum cuique.
If you guys love each other enough to do this, fine, do it on the anniversary. Needless to say, you should be able to remember everything about this day and everything leading to this, including before you met each other, how you met each other, when you went on your first outing, etc.
But in my finish here, I'll just tell you what marriage really is... Paperwork.
My girlfriend and housemate of ten years are in complete agreement about this, and although we've considered getting 'married' (legal paperwork) just for the tax breaks, we both know that we don't have to spend thousands on a wedding and rings to know that we love each other...
because in the end, that's all it really boils down to anyway.
Well, pomp and circumstance is not required of all marriages.
That's a valid view, but there are more benefits than tax breaks.
First of all , I would highly advise that you two actually 'live together' first...
They are perfectly fine if not living together first is what they wish to do.
OP, just wondering, what is it you do and what is it that your friend does? Most of the 20-year-olds and 22-year-olds I know don't even have their stuff together to start to compile their stuff with other people's stuff, which can mean (but seldom does mean) sorting out stuff any sooner or better.
In addition to pre-marriage counseling (does anyone do this anymore?)
Yes! In MN it's actually significantly cheaper to get a marriage license after going through some kind of pre-marriage counseling. A few hours with a pastor spread out over a couple weeks saved us $100.
- Is it to late in the year to come up with a ring? (She says she doesn't want anything expensive, so it'd be under $100)
An engagement ring under $100, have you looked at pricing? The Aussie Dollar isn't so different in value from the American dollar. What kind of stone does she want? Because $100 basically limits you to costume jewelry. A plain gold band costs more than that, so you might want to budget out the future wedding expenses now, too.
- You reckon it's the right time? (as in on the anniversary)
I don't think it's the right time for you, but for other reasons than the anniversary. Anniversaries are fine times to get engaged, and it'd be a sweet gesture.
- Should I tell anyone before I ask the question to her herself? (like parents or friends)
You should definitely ask your parents. If you're ready to get married, you should already know whether or not she's the type that would want you to ask her parents. If you don't you should have more talks with her about marriage before you decide to pop the question.
And here is why I don't think it's the right time for you. This is an okay time for marriage for some people, but if you're still in school it's a bad idea,and it's especially a bad idea if you aren't both financially independent. You should really talk to your parents and have her talk to hers if you're both really serious about getting married right now, and take their advice seriously.
Three years is a nice length of time to be dating and you should certainly do something special for your anniversary, but three years of dating that started when you were teenagers is not the same as three years of dating that started when you were already mature adults.
Here is the thing, I don't know anyone who got married before at least one of them was in their mid-20's that don't regret some of the decisions they made (including getting married so young). Most of the reason for that is because they're rushing into something without thinking everything through.
Now, I'm not trying to say you shouldn't do it, but take these two very important factors into consideration:
Financial Security
From what I know of you so far, I'm not sure either of you are financially independent, and it's not okay to hitch yourself to another person when you don't even know where you are going in life yet. You don't want something forcing your hand at a time when you should be able to pursue your future.
In addition, you may want to consider that you just aren't financially stable enough for marriage. It's easy to say love conquers all, but that's a cold comfort when you're screaming at each other over the budget while you're trying to make ends meet still living with your parents.
Emotional Maturity
You may feel like you're ready right now, but if you rush into a wedding while young because of how you feel, it sets a tone for the marriage based on impulsiveness. It also doesn't seem like you know each other that well yet, because if you have to ask whether or not you should talk to anyone else beforehand (which was a red flag for me), or if it's too soon after a family member passed, it tells me you don't know her well enough yet to be confident in what you're doing.
There is a sharp dividing line in happiness and financial security between those people I know that got married before and after they were 24/25. The 'before' crowd typically also rushed into having children and as a result of both getting married and having kids early typically hover around the 'poor and unhappy' end of the spectrum. They're the types that simply couldn't 'wait' to get married, and it's a reflection of their bad decision making skills overall. They regret having kids so young, they regret getting married so young, and they regret not being able to put all they would have wanted into their wedding. And those early bad decisions lead to more bad decisions down the road, mainly through acting out because of feeling confined.
Your heart should be your guide, not your dictator. The key to a successful long-term relationship is thinking with your head as much as your heart.
To put it more simply, you literally have the rest of your lives ahead of you right now, why rush such an important decision? Get to know each other (and yourselves) better. It may seem really important right this second, but you have all the time in the world to get married. I dated my wife for seven years before we got engaged (18-25) and took another two years to get us into a position where we could get married and live together comfortably. Marriage isn't a race.
With all that being said:
- Talk to your family and friends and hers and take their advice. (Do they think it's a good idea? Who you think you are and who you are to other people are two different things, so asking for different perspectives never hurts.)
- Consider your financial situation (Are the two of you capable of living independently? Have either of you lived on your own managing your own finances from a full-time job yet?)
- Consider your ability to be in a relationship (Can you both cook? Are you both capable of keeping a clean house? Do you have enough experience in life to be able to handle real crises, not just relationship drama? What is her most annoying trait? Can you live with that and the six other even more annoying traits she's hidden from you for the rest of your life?)
- Consider why you want to get married now? (Do you have friends that recent got married? Do you feel it's the next step you have to take? Are you romanticizing the notion of being married? Is she? Are either of you feeling pressured to 'make a commitment'?)
- Have you seriously talked about what that life would entail? (How many kids? What will you raise them to believe? What minor behaviors are okay? Who manages the finances and are they capable of that? How is the labor of the household divided?)
If you love each other, there is no reason why you have to get married now, and being impulsive about it can only lead to trouble, and further impulsive actions. If you can honestly answer all of these considerations and say you're ready, than you're probably ready and good luck to you
If you can't, just wait. There is no reason you can't get engaged on your fifth anniversary instead of your third. There is literally nothing magical that changes in your relationship between your married/not married status, except for the gradual decline of your standards and sex life and personal time. So why rush into it?
There isn't much I can say that other people haven't already. But, as someone who has been married for almost 8 years, take your time, ask her parents, and live with her first.
Take your time: No reason to rush into it, if she's the one, she will be the one 3 years from now too. This also ties into the last bit of advise.
Ask her parents: It's a show of respect and like someone else said, you want them on your side or it's going to be a long long marriage. I didn't ask my in-laws, but my wife was more or less estranged from them at the time.
Live to together first: This is soooo important as far as I'm concerned. You don't truely know someone until you live with them for atl east six months (it was six years for me). You could get married, live with her and end up hating her (or she hates you). Living with someone is vastly different than dating them. If you can wait, move in after you pop the question. But for all that is holy do not get married before you live with her. Unless of course religion is an issue.
Live to together first: This is soooo important as far as I'm concerned. You don't truely know someone until you live with them for atl east six months (it was six years for me). You could get married, live with her and end up hating her (or she hates you). Living with someone is vastly different than dating them. If you can wait, move in after you pop the question. But for all that is holy do not get married before you live with her. Unless of course religion is an issue.
This is true. It takes more than a week before people stop putting their best foot forward and you start to learn what you signed up for. My wife is an obnoxious sleeper. She falls asleep instantly, is impossible to wake without three alarms, and is pretty grumpy. I didn't learn this until the 6th year we were together, because it doesn't become apparent when we're excited on vacation and she gets up early. It's only after you settle in to ordinary life together that you see these things.
You don't need to live together first, you just need to know you're committed which is way different than simply being in love. Also, you're young, it's totally okay to get a less expensive ring now and upgrade later.
If you feel the time is right to propose and you're totally committed, then I say go for it. The 2 pieces of useful advice presented so far: 1 - talk to her parents first out of respect for them and 2- make it a memorable experience for her.
Despite that, I'd probably go for something a little more classic like a proposal in a theme park or something.
You guys are a little bit young though, I'd highly suggest waiting a little while and living together for a bit. You don't truly know somebody until you live with them. If you can stick around for a year after living with her, you'll probably have the testicular fortitude to stick around for 50~ more years too.
Oh god, thats the same age my gf and I are (except we've been dating a little less than 3 weeks less than you two have) and the thought of marriage scares me to ****.
A few things:
1. Asking her father's permission is a bad idea nowadays. I've been told it's disrespectful to the girl and just plain tacky. (this comes from a girl)
2. I know I hate hearing thing (I get a lot of "You're too young to have been dating that long, just enjoy life" which I know means "break up") but I think you're both too young. It just sounds bad.
The difference between you now and you in 7 years is probably not the same difference between her now and her in 7 years. I don't think things will end well.
My girlfriend says I don't need to ask for permission to marry her, but she wants me to let her parents know I'm proposing before doing so.
I think you should probably live with her first.
Also $100 is going to be tough for an engagement ring. Not saying that you need a diamond there are a lot of alternatives, a pearl is probably among the cheapest. I would pick something that will look good for a lifetime.
22 seems too young to get married imo. Unless you are planning on popping out kids soon I don't see much reason to legally bind yourself to someone.
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
+1 for live with her for at least 6 months to a year first. When you don't live together, it's easy to gloss over the annoying habits that she's bound to have (and for her to gloss over your annoying habits). When you do, those things are unavoidable. You don't want to find out that you just cannot deal anymore after you get married.
Also +1 for don't ask her father's permission. It's traditional, but it's a truly offensive tradition. She might be ok with it, but she might not. And what if he says no? You go ahead anyway, because you're both adults and he has absolutely no say in it whatsoever, you were just putting on a show for him. Only now it's awkward and you've got a hostile relationship with your father-in-law-to-be.
1) I dont recommend getting engaged yet for some of the reasons already mentioned but also because ppl do a lot of changing from 20 to 25. I have a buddy going through a divorce as we speak because he married a younger girl and the second she could legally drink, it was party party party and it ruined the marriage. Allow for some "get it out of your system" time.
2) Even if she said she doesnt want anything extravagant, she'll still appreciate that you went above and beyond. If im not mistaken, a ring should typically be 2-3 months salary
3) If you want to ask her parents first, go for it. I know plenty of people that have and plenty that havent. Never seen a parent tell the groom to be no. (Besides, you should know after 3 years if they like you or not. If not, then you'd be an idiot to ask).
4) Are both of you in school? If so you should make that your first priority and put everything else on the backburner. Concentrate on securing your future before you try to make one with someone else.
In summation, finish school, get a place together and give it a year to make sure all goes smoothly, save up and buy a nice ring, and do it all the right way a few years down the line.
Based on your other thread I would also reevaluate sexual compatibility which I think is pretty important for the long haul.
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"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory." - Murray Rothbard, Cited from "War, Peace, and the State"
Also +1 for don't ask her father's permission. It's traditional, but it's a truly offensive tradition. She might be ok with it, but she might not. And what if he says no? You go ahead anyway, because you're both adults and he has absolutely no say in it whatsoever, you were just putting on a show for him. Only now it's awkward and you've got a hostile relationship with your father-in-law-to-be.
To be fair, if you don't ask permission and they would have said no, then you'll still have an awkward, hostile relationship with your in-laws.
I've never thought of the tradition as being offensive, mostly because in practice it's less of an asking-for-permission and more about letting them know your intentions. Parents usually like to be the first ones to know about this sort of thing.
I think what it comes down to is her relationship with her parents. If she's close to her parents, then she's probably convinced them that you're good. If you don't know her parents that well, you should do more family things together to get to know them. If she doesn't have a strong relationship with her parents, then the asking permission thing is a little risky and probably unnecessary.
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I've never thought of the tradition as being offensive, mostly because in practice it's less of an asking-for-permission and more about letting them know your intentions. Parents usually like to be the first ones to know about this sort of thing.
This is true, but it depends on the woman in question. My wife liked it, as I knew she would, because she comes from a culture where respect for the parents was paramount. But it may be different elsewhere. It's always good to at least feel out your girlfriend's parents about the issue.
I want to propose to my girlfriend, and it's our 3 year anniversary on the 7th January. I was thinking of asking the question then. I just don't know if I should tell anyone in my family or her's about it, because I'd still probably propose to her even if people said otherwise.
You don't have to, but keep in mind, it is a really nice gesture to do.
Remember, a marriage is a joining of families. Her parents and her relatives will be your in-laws. Your parents and your relatives will be your in-laws. If you wish to continue a relationship with them in the future, it helps to be as including as possible.
I'm just wondering:
- Is it to late in the year to come up with a ring? (She says she doesn't want anything expensive, so it'd be under $100)
Traditionally, an engagement ring is optional and can be put off until the groom is in a better financial situation, or foregone altogether.
It doesn't hold the same significance that a wedding ring does.
- You reckon it's the right time? (as in on the anniversary)
That's for you to know.
- Should I tell anyone before I ask the question to her herself? (like parents or friends)
Your call. Again, keep in mind, it would clearly show respect and inclusiveness toward her parents and family if you talk to them.
Edit: Also I forgot:
- her sister lost her baby about a month ago, so I don't know if it's ok to ask her 2 months after the death of a family member?
It depends on what kind of a place she's in with that, which is something you would know better than we can.
Based on your other thread I would also reevaluate sexual compatibility which I think is pretty important for the long haul.
and I also believe that the thread in question is something we should call attention to: forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=567331
This is a thread you made earlier regarding your girlfriend's lack of comfort with tongue-kissing.
The two aren't necessarily correlated, but it definitely gives off a sense of how young you both are.
Also, keep in mind, you're both not yet out of college right? What ThaDeceptikon said about the ages of 20-25 is correct. I'm in my late twenties, and I know for a fact that I am an entirely different person from when I graduated. Hell, I was a different person a year after I graduated from when I graduated.
The relevant issue is not the number of years. The relevant issue is maturity and where you both are in your lives, and from there where your relationship is at right now and where you believe it's meant to go.
You don't have to be in a rush to get married. You have every right to take your time with this, especially if you really are suspecting it's not the best time right now.
I'm just wondering:
- Is it to late in the year to come up with a ring? (She says she doesn't want anything expensive, so it'd be under $100)
- You reckon it's the right time? (as in on the anniversary)
- Should I tell anyone before I ask the question to her herself? (like parents or friends)
Edit: Also I forgot:
- her sister lost her baby about a month ago, so I don't know if it's ok to ask her 2 months after the death of a family member?
- and next year I will be 22, her 20.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
You only get one chance to propose and the story will be with the two of you forever, so please do try to make it a story she's going to be happy to tell her friends and your children.
All of her friends will want to know how you did it and they will want to see the ring. I'm not saying to have to play into those expectations, but you should be well aware that they exist.
You can walk out of a store with a ring, but it might need to be resized. It can be resized after it's presented - that's not a big deal and pretty common.
Are you asking whether you are old enough? I'm sure if you spent some time on the google that you'd find an article or three about how marriages that happen later in life tend to be more successful. That said, odds are that you are not the statistics - you probably have a pretty good idea of whether you are ready for a lifetime commitment.
In the US, it's customary (an obsolete custom, I'm sure, but it still exists) to ask her father permission to marry. Trust me when I say that you are going to want her parents on your side in the coming years. If you can start off right by asking (and receiving) permission, that would be HIGHLY recommended.
Edit: w/r/t the baby - that's a tragedy. While the mother certainly will not have moved on by now, you are in a better place to gauge the current level of your GF's grief (and her parents) than we would be.
This was asked, but it partially part of tradition or custom and common courtesy or respect.
Most of cme's post are good words, and I cannot add more to it. Some of it comes off as a little offensive to me, but I am happy to see that someone gets it. That having been said, I don't agree with this: "You only get one chance to propose and the story will be with the two of you forever, so please do try to make it a story she's going to be happy to tell her friends and your children."
In my culture, which is now Australianised / New Zealandified, it is still too soon in light of such unhappy circumstances. If you are meant to be, unless there are particular reasons, broaching the question later won't be any different from broaching the question a little later. If anything, it will make things a little less intense for everyone, and everyone will be a little more level-minded.
Beyond that, I don't really know enough about you kids, but anniversaries are rather arbitrary times to propose. My guiding principle is whenever it feels and whenever you guys think it's right.
Regarding the ring, it seems shoddy to not splurge on a ring. Tentatively, a cheap one will do but some of these also aren't chemically stable or are otherwise crappy and undergo chemical reactions (such as oxidation), which can leave marks on your loved one's finger.
Then there's the whole thing with a lot of women. The size of the rock is important, as is the constituents of the band itself. I have a lot of friends who make a big deal out of this.
Your girlfriend could be content with a sweet and simple symbol of your love, but you know her better than we do.
Though...
Could it be too soon for the both of you?
I don't want to raise fears, uncertainties and doubts or ruin things for you guys. It's just I wince away when I hear of young couples getting married when they're not too many years beyond the legal age and not that many years as independent adults. However, I also must remember that some people have been going with their future partners for ages and that they feel it's right. I also see many young couples a few years later and many years later looking back and ruing the day they were married (apparently, there was no silver lining to the entire enterprise).
I personally would have a talk (how ominous and unusual would, "babe, we need to talk" be, only for it to be laying down expectations and working towards a future together, not apart!). You guys should realise that relationships, even and especially after marriage, are difficult and that a crapload of marriages do not work out as a young, stupid and in love couple intends it to. You should work out why you're doing this, but don't overanalyze the crap out of it either.
I just assumed anniversaries were best way to go. I do want to propose to her. We have talked about our futures together. We have made plans for the next 5 years. I only ask if I should talk to her parents or somebody since I know that there are some rituals that girls like done before the question. As for the living apart, we spend 1/3 - 1/2 of a week together straight already. So is the anniversary to lame?
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
DO NOT. (Not yet at least)
First of all , I would highly advise that you two actually 'live together' first... it is a very important thing that you two can coexist in the same house for long periods of time. Everbody has quirks that can make or break things and you both need to know how to address and cope with each others 'finer qualities'. Couple of weeks just doesnt cut it... I've seen people be all about getting married, havin kids, washin the minivan, etc... until they move in with each other.:banghead:
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not just tryin to knock you down, I'm glad you've found someone you think highly enough of to consider marriage... that's great. I can attest to how good it can be when you live with the woman you love... and also how hard it can be.
Besides, you two are very young and have some time to think it through.
(Granted, you said her sis lost a young one recently, so life definitely can be short, no doubt.)
(Also, my condolences about the little one.)
But in my finish here, I'll just tell you what marriage really is... Paperwork.
My girlfriend and housemate of ten years are in complete agreement about this, and although we've considered getting 'married' (legal paperwork) just for the tax breaks, we both know that we don't have to spend thousands on a wedding and rings to know that we love each other...
because in the end, that's all it really boils down to anyway.
-LEGACY-- RUR SpellDelver UWU Superfriends with Benefits
-MODERN- GBG B/G GoodGrief GRG R/G Go[o]dstuff
-CHROME- GGG Mean Green WUB Spirit Tribal
-PAUPER-- WBG Enchantments RUG RUG Delver
-1v1 EDH-- UB Lazav's Grindhouse BB Death by Sheoldred
If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
Also, in summary to OP's questions,(on a lighter note) I'd say at least wait until next Jan. 7.
It'll give you a year to talk to both families about it, which you probably should do just to be respectful, considering you said you'd probably still ask her.
(Though I'm really no expert on these particular matters)
Maybe you two could look for a place together in the spring...?
Spend the summer n fall together... ...then BAM! Its next winter again and you'll both know yourselves and each other a little better.:hug:
Then you can pop for a nice rock with the money you tucked away all year and go get her, tiger...
-LEGACY-- RUR SpellDelver UWU Superfriends with Benefits
-MODERN- GBG B/G GoodGrief GRG R/G Go[o]dstuff
-CHROME- GGG Mean Green WUB Spirit Tribal
-PAUPER-- WBG Enchantments RUG RUG Delver
-1v1 EDH-- UB Lazav's Grindhouse BB Death by Sheoldred
If I had a dollar for every time I missed playing a Counterspell ...
I'd be missing my Mana Drain s instead.
Far from what I implied and further from what I said. YMMV and it depends with proposals anyway.
If she knows about this and these things, whatever you do, it's predictable. Predictability isn't necessary a bad thing.
I personally do not believe in anniversaries at all. It is good to appreciate the little things but I feel that if I were to celebrate them, I would lose sight of the bigger picture of the actual things being celebrated and cherished. To some people, they are important. To others, they are not. To others, they don't even make any good sense. Suum cuique.
If you guys love each other enough to do this, fine, do it on the anniversary. Needless to say, you should be able to remember everything about this day and everything leading to this, including before you met each other, how you met each other, when you went on your first outing, etc.
Well, pomp and circumstance is not required of all marriages.
That's a valid view, but there are more benefits than tax breaks.
They are perfectly fine if not living together first is what they wish to do.
OP, just wondering, what is it you do and what is it that your friend does? Most of the 20-year-olds and 22-year-olds I know don't even have their stuff together to start to compile their stuff with other people's stuff, which can mean (but seldom does mean) sorting out stuff any sooner or better.
Yes! In MN it's actually significantly cheaper to get a marriage license after going through some kind of pre-marriage counseling. A few hours with a pastor spread out over a couple weeks saved us $100.
An engagement ring under $100, have you looked at pricing? The Aussie Dollar isn't so different in value from the American dollar. What kind of stone does she want? Because $100 basically limits you to costume jewelry. A plain gold band costs more than that, so you might want to budget out the future wedding expenses now, too.
I don't think it's the right time for you, but for other reasons than the anniversary. Anniversaries are fine times to get engaged, and it'd be a sweet gesture.
You should definitely ask your parents. If you're ready to get married, you should already know whether or not she's the type that would want you to ask her parents. If you don't you should have more talks with her about marriage before you decide to pop the question.
It really depends on the person, does she seem okay with it? Has she made peace with it? Has her family finished grieving?
And here is why I don't think it's the right time for you. This is an okay time for marriage for some people, but if you're still in school it's a bad idea,and it's especially a bad idea if you aren't both financially independent. You should really talk to your parents and have her talk to hers if you're both really serious about getting married right now, and take their advice seriously.
Three years is a nice length of time to be dating and you should certainly do something special for your anniversary, but three years of dating that started when you were teenagers is not the same as three years of dating that started when you were already mature adults.
Here is the thing, I don't know anyone who got married before at least one of them was in their mid-20's that don't regret some of the decisions they made (including getting married so young). Most of the reason for that is because they're rushing into something without thinking everything through.
Now, I'm not trying to say you shouldn't do it, but take these two very important factors into consideration:
Financial Security
From what I know of you so far, I'm not sure either of you are financially independent, and it's not okay to hitch yourself to another person when you don't even know where you are going in life yet. You don't want something forcing your hand at a time when you should be able to pursue your future.
In addition, you may want to consider that you just aren't financially stable enough for marriage. It's easy to say love conquers all, but that's a cold comfort when you're screaming at each other over the budget while you're trying to make ends meet still living with your parents.
Emotional Maturity
You may feel like you're ready right now, but if you rush into a wedding while young because of how you feel, it sets a tone for the marriage based on impulsiveness. It also doesn't seem like you know each other that well yet, because if you have to ask whether or not you should talk to anyone else beforehand (which was a red flag for me), or if it's too soon after a family member passed, it tells me you don't know her well enough yet to be confident in what you're doing.
There is a sharp dividing line in happiness and financial security between those people I know that got married before and after they were 24/25. The 'before' crowd typically also rushed into having children and as a result of both getting married and having kids early typically hover around the 'poor and unhappy' end of the spectrum. They're the types that simply couldn't 'wait' to get married, and it's a reflection of their bad decision making skills overall. They regret having kids so young, they regret getting married so young, and they regret not being able to put all they would have wanted into their wedding. And those early bad decisions lead to more bad decisions down the road, mainly through acting out because of feeling confined.
Your heart should be your guide, not your dictator. The key to a successful long-term relationship is thinking with your head as much as your heart.
To put it more simply, you literally have the rest of your lives ahead of you right now, why rush such an important decision? Get to know each other (and yourselves) better. It may seem really important right this second, but you have all the time in the world to get married. I dated my wife for seven years before we got engaged (18-25) and took another two years to get us into a position where we could get married and live together comfortably. Marriage isn't a race.
With all that being said:
- Talk to your family and friends and hers and take their advice. (Do they think it's a good idea? Who you think you are and who you are to other people are two different things, so asking for different perspectives never hurts.)
- Consider your financial situation (Are the two of you capable of living independently? Have either of you lived on your own managing your own finances from a full-time job yet?)
- Consider your ability to be in a relationship (Can you both cook? Are you both capable of keeping a clean house? Do you have enough experience in life to be able to handle real crises, not just relationship drama? What is her most annoying trait? Can you live with that and the six other even more annoying traits she's hidden from you for the rest of your life?)
- Consider why you want to get married now? (Do you have friends that recent got married? Do you feel it's the next step you have to take? Are you romanticizing the notion of being married? Is she? Are either of you feeling pressured to 'make a commitment'?)
- Have you seriously talked about what that life would entail? (How many kids? What will you raise them to believe? What minor behaviors are okay? Who manages the finances and are they capable of that? How is the labor of the household divided?)
If you love each other, there is no reason why you have to get married now, and being impulsive about it can only lead to trouble, and further impulsive actions. If you can honestly answer all of these considerations and say you're ready, than you're probably ready and good luck to you
If you can't, just wait. There is no reason you can't get engaged on your fifth anniversary instead of your third. There is literally nothing magical that changes in your relationship between your married/not married status, except for the gradual decline of your standards and sex life and personal time. So why rush into it?
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Take your time: No reason to rush into it, if she's the one, she will be the one 3 years from now too. This also ties into the last bit of advise.
Ask her parents: It's a show of respect and like someone else said, you want them on your side or it's going to be a long long marriage. I didn't ask my in-laws, but my wife was more or less estranged from them at the time.
Live to together first: This is soooo important as far as I'm concerned. You don't truely know someone until you live with them for atl east six months (it was six years for me). You could get married, live with her and end up hating her (or she hates you). Living with someone is vastly different than dating them. If you can wait, move in after you pop the question. But for all that is holy do not get married before you live with her. Unless of course religion is an issue.
This is true. It takes more than a week before people stop putting their best foot forward and you start to learn what you signed up for. My wife is an obnoxious sleeper. She falls asleep instantly, is impossible to wake without three alarms, and is pretty grumpy. I didn't learn this until the 6th year we were together, because it doesn't become apparent when we're excited on vacation and she gets up early. It's only after you settle in to ordinary life together that you see these things.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
If you feel the time is right to propose and you're totally committed, then I say go for it. The 2 pieces of useful advice presented so far: 1 - talk to her parents first out of respect for them and 2- make it a memorable experience for her.
This is sound advice, from an even sounder man.
Despite that, I'd probably go for something a little more classic like a proposal in a theme park or something.
You guys are a little bit young though, I'd highly suggest waiting a little while and living together for a bit. You don't truly know somebody until you live with them. If you can stick around for a year after living with her, you'll probably have the testicular fortitude to stick around for 50~ more years too.
A few things:
1. Asking her father's permission is a bad idea nowadays. I've been told it's disrespectful to the girl and just plain tacky. (this comes from a girl)
2. I know I hate hearing thing (I get a lot of "You're too young to have been dating that long, just enjoy life" which I know means "break up") but I think you're both too young. It just sounds bad.
The difference between you now and you in 7 years is probably not the same difference between her now and her in 7 years. I don't think things will end well.
I think you should probably live with her first.
Also $100 is going to be tough for an engagement ring. Not saying that you need a diamond there are a lot of alternatives, a pearl is probably among the cheapest. I would pick something that will look good for a lifetime.
22 seems too young to get married imo. Unless you are planning on popping out kids soon I don't see much reason to legally bind yourself to someone.
Also +1 for don't ask her father's permission. It's traditional, but it's a truly offensive tradition. She might be ok with it, but she might not. And what if he says no? You go ahead anyway, because you're both adults and he has absolutely no say in it whatsoever, you were just putting on a show for him. Only now it's awkward and you've got a hostile relationship with your father-in-law-to-be.
2) Even if she said she doesnt want anything extravagant, she'll still appreciate that you went above and beyond. If im not mistaken, a ring should typically be 2-3 months salary
3) If you want to ask her parents first, go for it. I know plenty of people that have and plenty that havent. Never seen a parent tell the groom to be no. (Besides, you should know after 3 years if they like you or not. If not, then you'd be an idiot to ask).
4) Are both of you in school? If so you should make that your first priority and put everything else on the backburner. Concentrate on securing your future before you try to make one with someone else.
In summation, finish school, get a place together and give it a year to make sure all goes smoothly, save up and buy a nice ring, and do it all the right way a few years down the line.
To be fair, if you don't ask permission and they would have said no, then you'll still have an awkward, hostile relationship with your in-laws.
I've never thought of the tradition as being offensive, mostly because in practice it's less of an asking-for-permission and more about letting them know your intentions. Parents usually like to be the first ones to know about this sort of thing.
I think what it comes down to is her relationship with her parents. If she's close to her parents, then she's probably convinced them that you're good. If you don't know her parents that well, you should do more family things together to get to know them. If she doesn't have a strong relationship with her parents, then the asking permission thing is a little risky and probably unnecessary.
1 Ulamog 1 ◊ W Avacyn W ◊ U Memnarch U ◊ B Endrek B ◊ R Urabrask R ◊ G Yeva G
This is true, but it depends on the woman in question. My wife liked it, as I knew she would, because she comes from a culture where respect for the parents was paramount. But it may be different elsewhere. It's always good to at least feel out your girlfriend's parents about the issue.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
You don't have to, but keep in mind, it is a really nice gesture to do.
Remember, a marriage is a joining of families. Her parents and her relatives will be your in-laws. Your parents and your relatives will be your in-laws. If you wish to continue a relationship with them in the future, it helps to be as including as possible.
Traditionally, an engagement ring is optional and can be put off until the groom is in a better financial situation, or foregone altogether.
It doesn't hold the same significance that a wedding ring does.
That's for you to know.
Your call. Again, keep in mind, it would clearly show respect and inclusiveness toward her parents and family if you talk to them.
It depends on what kind of a place she's in with that, which is something you would know better than we can.
Undisputed- brought up a point,
and I also believe that the thread in question is something we should call attention to:
forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=567331
This is a thread you made earlier regarding your girlfriend's lack of comfort with tongue-kissing.
The two aren't necessarily correlated, but it definitely gives off a sense of how young you both are.
Also, keep in mind, you're both not yet out of college right? What ThaDeceptikon said about the ages of 20-25 is correct. I'm in my late twenties, and I know for a fact that I am an entirely different person from when I graduated. Hell, I was a different person a year after I graduated from when I graduated.
The relevant issue is not the number of years. The relevant issue is maturity and where you both are in your lives, and from there where your relationship is at right now and where you believe it's meant to go.
You don't have to be in a rush to get married. You have every right to take your time with this, especially if you really are suspecting it's not the best time right now.