You know they don't need a warrant to search your car right (trunk and glove compartment, only if it's locked). Common misconception. If you have a hatchback, kind of hard to keep the cop from searching (well glancing) at your trunk.
My quote friend here tends to disagree with you.
Anyway, you're saying that you're used to being searched, so it's no big deal. I'm use to being shot at, does that mean it's no big deal?
I have no problem with FBS. I have a problem with Patdowns. We're not talking about airport security.
I would like you to answer my question. Why is a quote from one of the founding fathers, who you people hold so highly, dumb?
I love when people quote people from 200 years ago. Times were very different then. They didn't have planes crashing into buildings, they didn't have terrorist attacking main buildings in OKC, they didn't have distraught teenagers shooting up schools, disgruntled employees sniping areas, you get my point? These quotes don't make sense in this time. National Security should be everyone's #1 concern on a daily basis. Without said security, you wouldn't have the rights you hold so dear.
Your quote of me didn't show me saying you don't have the right. Remember I said:
Quote from NavyJoe »
However, there are laws and legal precendence that gives cops the rights they need to do their job.
Quote from NavyJoe »
You know they don't need a warrant to search your car right (trunk and glove compartment, only if it's locked). Common misconception. If you have a hatchback, kind of hard to keep the cop from searching (well glancing) at your trunk.
Now cops ask you to search your car, cause it's your right to not have your car searched. However they have literally dozens of legal precedence and laws that allow them to search your vehicle if they need. That's what the two quotes say. And they do not need a warrant to search your main compartment of the car, just the trunk and the locked glove box. They need either your permissoin or probably cause. Since probable cause is not a black and white legal precedence, then they can find a way to look in your car, if they feel they need to. I'm not saying all cops will always want to look in your car, however, if they want, they will.
I love when people quote people from 200 years ago. Times were very different then. They didn't have planes crashing into buildings, they didn't have terrorist attacking main buildings in OKC, they didn't have distraught teenagers shooting up schools, disgruntled employees sniping areas, you get my point? These quotes don't make sense in this time. National Security should be everyone's #1 concern on a daily basis. Without said security, you wouldn't have the rights you hold so dear.
Your quote of me didn't show me saying you don't have the right. Remember I said:
[/I]
[I]Now cops ask you to search your car, cause it's your right to not have your car searched. However they have literally dozens of legal precedence and laws that allow them to search your vehicle if they need. That's what the two quotes say. And they do not need a warrant to search your main compartment of the car, just the trunk and the locked glove box. They need either your permissoin or probably cause. Since probable cause is not a black and white legal precedence, then they can find a way to look in your car, if they feel they need to. I'm not saying all cops will always want to look in your car, however, if they want, they will.[/I]
They need neither a warrant, or probable cause to look at the backseat of your car. This is not considered a "search". They do need a warrant/your consent to look in your trunk (if it isn't visible) or your glove box.
The quote is indeed still relevant. I would rather be a little less safe when riding on a train, than have some dude in a suit rifle through my bag before I got on the train. I do not have a problem with them scanning the bag, just going through it.
You're saying they do not need a warrant to search your car, and you said it in the post I quoted. That is not true at all. The bolded part of your post (by me) disagrees with what you're stating heavily.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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Cops here cannot touch me at all. I can literally have drug dogs smell me for drugs, confirm I have, have bulging pockets and I can simply say "No sir, you cannot search me" and then I'm on my merry way.
Me and some mates can even dack spray cans and just tell them its our erect penises and they have no leg to stand on, unlike me. I love being a minor in Australia.
People that say cops don't have the right and they can't do this need to get something straight. The cops generally do not want to waste your time or theirs.
This is true of some police officers, but not all. Police officers are people, and like all people they have flaws. There is no way to have a 'perfect' law enforcement system because of this. Instead we maintain oaths, codes of conduct, and laws to govern these people we entrust with our protection. Police are (imho) generally respectable people, but they have chosen a difficult job which has an ideal of unattainable aspirations. Because of their position, it is imperative we hold them accountable for the actions they take in the name of their badge. Having their position does not give them the right to act illegally, and we should not allow them to do so. Failing to hold bad (or simply ignorant) police to a standard of legal conduct undermines the work of all the great police officers out there, fostering disrespect for a noble profession.
They pulled you over cause 1. you look suspicous. 2. you are in violation of some law. In case 2 (IMO) you gave your right up to be a dick to the cop. You broke the law, now deal with the cop properly.
Couple things, NavyJoe.
'Looking suspicious' is not a reason cops can use to pull someone over. Period. Matching the description of a person of interest IS a reason to pull someone over, but that is not the same thing as 'looking suspicious'.
And exercising your rights does not make you a dick.
-Being a dick: I once received a traffic ticket for speeding some 11 or 12 years ago, the officer didn't even ask to search my car in that incident. Any time officers have asked to search a vehicle I was driving or riding in, I have refused or told the driver to refuse. None of those stops resulted in a ticket. Considering some of those stops were for reasons that can be ticketed (headlight out, etc), I believe you can be polite to police without letting them walk all over you for no reason. I do agree with NavyJoe that being a dick to police for no reason is uncalled for and stupid, but again, there is a difference between antagonizing and respectfully holding police to the standard of the law.
-Looking suspicious: One afternoon four of my siblings, aged between 10-19, were detained by 3 police cruisers while walking home from a local park for 'looking suspicious'. This was literally the only reason listed in the police reports, there had been no crimes reported, there was no description or account of suspicious activity, no charges pressed or arrests made. Just on site interrogations that brought everyone but my 19 year old brother to tears before he told the police they were done and ordered my little sisters and brother to ignore the police and continue walking home. By the end of that lawsuit the county sheriff office had to pay out 5 figures (not counting their lawyer fees) for their illegal actions.
I love when people quote people from 200 years ago. Times were very different then. They didn't have planes crashing into buildings, they didn't have terrorist attacking main buildings in OKC, they didn't have distraught teenagers shooting up schools, disgruntled employees sniping areas, you get my point? These quotes don't make sense in this time. National Security should be everyone's #1 concern on a daily basis. Without said security, you wouldn't have the rights you hold so dear.
Well, to begin a $1 trillion war on top of another $1 trillion war combined with several unpaid for security measures that have in specific cases marginal benefits and increasing costs. Certainly there have been safety increases, however the Homeland Security System itself has become a posh way for companies to extricate sexy security equipment onto government with marginal benefits to overall security.
If you want to discuss the days of yore, they were still quite a ways dangerous.
And this happened in Franklin's state, so he's not totally an idiot, either when it comes to "security issues." The only difference now is how people are trying to kill, but we still see some of the same wastes and changes in our way of life that do not always match the frequency of terrorist attacks, either.
Also, one particular event with Andrew Johnson had a story where he was giving a stump speech and a person came into the store or tavern with a gun. I forget exactly what Johnson said, but the gist was Johnson pulled out his own gun and the person eventually left. These people knew security risks just as we have, in a different context sure but they can certain empathize and understand some of the frustrations. The issue we have is just like then, if we have too much of the wrong kind of securities we will live in a police state (the bad kind).
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
The question of what can be searched is easily settled by consulting our nation's foremost legal scholar, Jay-Z:
The year's '94, in my trunk is raw
In my rear view mirror is the ***** *****' law
I got two choices y'all pull over the car or (hmmm)
Bounce on the devil put the pedal to the floor
Now I ain't tryin' to see no highway chase with Jay.
Plus i got a few dollars i can fight the case
So I...pull over to the side of the road
I heard "Son do you know why I'm stoppin' you for?"
Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hats real low?
Do I look like a mind reader sir, I don't know
Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo'?
"Well you was doin fifty-five in a fifty-fo' "
"Liscense and registration and step out of the car"
"Are you carryin' a weapon on you I know a lot of you are"
I ain't steppin out of *** all my paper's legit
"Well, do you mind if I look round the car a little bit?"
Well my glove compartment is locked so are the trunk in the back
And I know my rights so you gon' need a warrant for that
"Aren't you sharp as a tack, you some type of lawyer or something'?"
"Or somebody important or somethin'?"
Nah, I ain't pass the bar but i know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my ***
"We'll see how smart you are when the K9 come"
I got 99 problems but a ***** ain't one
You can't just tell him he is wrong. In his mind, security is more important than freedom. That is his opinion, because he has been indoctrinated by the US military. He apparently doesn't see the hypocrisy in the US going around the world trying to bring democracy to everyone, while he advocates completely tossing that democracy aside. But that doesn't make him 'wrong'. Sadly, many people in the US today have the same mindset that NavyJoe does.
You know...it's all in how you approach it. Considering that any routine stop can result in them getting dead...I'm as polite as I can be when they pull me. No. They don't have to be doing that for a living, but having other people willing to do it is fine by me.
Two...see statement one of how any routine stop can get you dead. Do you really think that officers are like...yeah! People to pull over. Who can I mess with on this shift? No...I know officers personally since they keep tabs on our register at the hotel I work at. They come by at night to see if anybody they are tracking has checked in. Less drug dealers means less chances of incidents on my shift from 11p-7a. I've been on duty during hotel drug busts. It's not fun. It's really scary actually.
They hate having to pull people over. Why not do the proper thing and:
Not give them a reason to do so (not that hard) or if they do...not giving them grief for it?
Do you really think I want to go mess with the domestic disturbance call at 4:00 am or the chick who's breaking out car windows with a baseball bat because her boyfriend is shacking up?
In fact, many police officers are exactly how you describe. Plenty of them get into the field purely because they want to lord authority over people. Does that mean all of theym do? Of course not. But enough of them do. They're just human, and suffer from the same shortcomings as all humans.
You can't just tell him he is wrong. In his mind, security is more important than freedom. That is his opinion, because he has been indoctrinated by the US military. He apparently doesn't see the hypocrisy in the US going around the world trying to bring democracy to everyone, while he advocates completely tossing that democracy aside. But that doesn't make him 'wrong'. Sadly, many people in the US today have the same mindset that NavyJoe does.
Also, Tiax wins this thread.
On a legal level, saying officers do not need warrants to search your cars is incorrect.
I'm not saying he's wrong in the sense of sacrificing security for freedom.
Yes.
Tiax wins this thread
He also has posted the most content.
You know...it's all in how you approach it. Considering that any routine stop can result in them getting dead...I'm as polite as I can be when they pull me. No. They don't have to be doing that for a living, but having other people willing to do it is fine by me.
Two...see statement one of how any routine stop can get you dead. Do you really think that officers are like...yeah! People to pull over. Who can I mess with on this shift? No...I know officers personally since they keep tabs on our register at the hotel I work at. They come by at night to see if anybody they are tracking has checked in. Less drug dealers means less chances of incidents on my shift from 11p-7a. I've been on duty during hotel drug busts. It's not fun. It's really scary actually.
They hate having to pull people over. Why not do the proper thing and:
Not give them a reason to do so (not that hard) or if they do...not giving them grief for it?
Do you really think I want to go mess with the domestic disturbance call at 4:00 am or the chick who's breaking out car windows with a baseball bat because her boyfriend is shacking up?
The new cop (who joined 4 months ago) in his first month, pulled over 134 different people, and tickted 122 of them.
Power trip = being human.
In fact, many police officers are exactly how you describe. Plenty of them get into the field purely because they want to lord authority over people. Does that mean all of theym do? Of course not. But enough of them do. They're just human, and suffer from the same shortcomings as all humans.
Exactly
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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I never said there weren't officers who didn't do that. There are people in any walk of life who will go on a power trip.
Your average police officer would love to just sit there and listen to the radio, drink coffee, eat doughnuts, and talk to their partner instead of actually having to pull people over.
99% of their tickets and pulls are routine. There is always that one person who IS running guns or drugs though. The kind of person who WILL put a bullet in you because of the fact that he IS doing something that will send him to jail.
That knowledge alone deserves a little respect from anybody. Unless you're a complete self-centered douche who cares only about himself. Oh...you're an inconvenience to me...how can I be a prick about my precious rights? Screw you...my rights take precedence over your concern for your own safety or attempts to keep a few people who actually are making society more dangerous out of it. Is that what you're saying?
If you're not doing anything that warrants it, you probably won't get pulled. If you are going 55 in a fifty-fo' and it's a posted limit...how exactly are you not in violation of a posted mandate? The cops usually even give you slack on that...so everybody goes four or nine over depending on the tolerance of the speed limit they're in. Those bastards. They don't just nail you for going a couple over and give you an actual leeway of bending the law.
Any cop who really wants to give out tickets for that can...it just costs the state and courts money and raises my taxes to process the extra paperwork. You breaking the law on posted speed limits infringes on me personally in that case, so what about my rights to not have other asses in society cost me money for not speeding and having a state inspected vehicle with working lights?
Oh...you're an inconvenience to me...how can I be a prick about my precious rights? Screw you...my rights take precedence over your concern for your own safety or attempts to keep a few people who actually are making society more dangerous out of it. Is that what you're saying?
Not at all. It is not about being a prick. I'll say it again, you do not have to be an ******* to protect yourself. Badges are not a golden ticket to act above the law, and it is important police do not act above the law. If police don't follow laws in the name of the law, they are acting as vigilantes. I fear that is a slipperly slope, and I've seen enough corruption (yay Illinois!) that I don't want police to tread it.
I agree with the fact that some officers overstep their boundaries and go on power trips. It's the same thing with Magic. I love playing it, but sometimes it's so hard to find a good group of competitive players who aren't condescending, arrogant, and obnoxious about it.
Keeping your car up-to-date and doing proper things when they pull you will probably not get you harassed as much or send people on power trips (not saying it doesn't happen, but what are you going to do?). Things like keeping your hands in plain view, having your ID and registration ready, pulling over far enough, and things like that.
In regards to the OP - having your plate light out, a driver's side window that doesn't work, and a multitude of other things that require you to do things out of the ordinary from a routine stop is just asking for trouble. It also gets you pulled over and over. I'd just fix the problems they keep bringing up (on the 15 times they've pulled you over) and get on with life rather than cry harassment.
I'm not a dick to officer with regular stops.
I'm a dick to officers who ask to search my car without a reason or a warrant.
See the difference?
As soon as they want to waste my time searching my car, I give them a hard time.
As stated in an example, if the officer told me what they were looking for, I would let him search my car. If he says, nope, just need to look around. I will say no 100% of the time.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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Your average police officer would love to just sit there and listen to the radio, drink coffee, eat doughnuts, and talk to their partner instead of actually having to pull people over.
99% of their tickets and pulls are routine. There is always that one person who IS running guns or drugs though. The kind of person who WILL put a bullet in you because of the fact that he IS doing something that will send him to jail.
That knowledge alone deserves a little respect from anybody. Unless you're a complete self-centered douche who cares only about himself.
I'm with you on this part most definitely.
Especially on highway pull overs. If they pull you over for speeding they have to worry about (a) getting shot by the driver or passenger or (b) being clipped by a semi ( I know two cops who have had their careers ended this way). Just getting out of the car on the shoulder IOC the freeway is an extreme occupational hazard.
Which is why I pull over as far as possible. Why I have my hands up on the steering wheel. Which is why I'm polite and courteous and relatable. The sooner the cop figures out I'm one of us and not one of "them" (that might put a bullet in him), the better off we both are.
Ive seen it dozens of times on deadliest car chases on real video footage from the front patrolcarcam: Riff raff with broken tail light or speeding or expired registration gets pulled over, starts jabbering about his rights being violated, blah blah blah, refuses a search, becomes more argumentative, next thing you know the passenger has a 9 out and is firing at the officer, or the car does a peel out, and it's on like Donkey Kong...
A cop does NOT enjoy spending his day making traffic stops. I'm sure he'd much prefer to be "solving real crimes".
I think anytime a cop (for the most part...you can always bring up the fact that some officers just want to do stupid stuff, but I'm willing to bet that is a super low %) asks to search your vehicle or inspect it he has some legitimate reason to do so. I'm pretty sure most of them aren't doing it for kicks and seriously suspect something is amiss.
If you don't have anything to hide and know you aren't doing anything wrong, why give them a hard time about it? They're just doing their job (99% of the time. Yes. I will concede that some of them are just dicks. Do you honestly think that is more than a handful of them?).
As soon as you start giving them the..."What are you looking for specifically/go get a warrant" spiel you immediately send up caution flags. Sending up flags gives them reason to be much less friendly with you and much more aggressive because of those warning signs. Normal people with nothing to hide (like myself) are like sure...go nuts. You might waste ten minutes of my day, but there are more important things to worry about than a little inconvenience and it puts them more at ease.
If somebody is like "Sure, go ahead" do you think they are now expecting to find anything? Rather than the full search they were going to do, you probably just get a cursory glance now. No sane person willingly consents to a search when he is doing something he shouldn't be doing.
Glove compartment? "Screw you, go get a warrant". What kind of reaction are you expecting to get from that retort?
Asking them what they are looking for is pointless. Seriously. If you actually have cocaine in the car and they go "We're looking for cocaine", do you think the person actually possessing is going to say "Okay."
No. Depending on the person I'm thinking a violent altercation occurs immediately after that exchange takes place. Not tipping you off in regards to what they suspect is probably safer. Not that it matters if you really do have something to hide. It's going to end badly for the officer most of the time (either they have to get involved in an altercation and endanger themselves or they get dead).
So it's kind of a catch 22 for them with you, isn't it? You aren't doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide, yet you want specifics on what they are doing and why.
The key word on that being "harassment". The police pulling you for speeding, having a tail-light out, or any other traffic violation isn't harassment by that definition. If they pull you for a violation and they get the feeling there is more during the course of that violation, of course I want them to check it out.
I'm not talking about minimizing the harassment of the police by those suggestions, I'm talking about how to make their jobs smoother once you are pulled over and the process is underway.
Police corruption exists. Government spends money on stupid crap. Accountants embezzle. I don't overestimate their honesty as an entity more than I do anything else.
Just because say, the IRS, decides to audit me doesn't usually mean they're bored and have nothing else to do or are on a power trip. By the logic offered in this thread I should be like..."Why do you want to audit me?" "Go get a warrant or affidavit from a judge before I'll give you access to any of my financial records." How do you think they'll react to that? Your audit will now become more intensive, go back farther, and require more receipts and proof of taxable income.
OP needs to fix his plate light and get the tint of his window assessed by someone other than a cop. Maybe the cop was trying to fill his ticket quota and fudged the truth about the window. It would be nice to know for sure.
The type of car you have makes a big difference. My bf has a black Grand Prix with tinted windows(they're illegal but he refuses to change them) and its a cop magnet. He's had cops follow him from one end of a town to the city limits before. Though I will say that the cops in my area have been pretty nice. Once he was going to work when a cop pulled him over to let him know his trunk was open, ignoring the overwhelming scent of marijuana in his car.
I live on an international border, the US-Canada border, and cops here have alot more power to do things. At the bus station city buses and Greyhounds come and leave and the US Border Patrol is there 24/7, complete with assault rifles and drug dogs. They ask everyone their citizenship and their business in Buffalo which can get complicated at times. Buffalo has a growing refugee population and so many people in Buffalo aren't US citizens but are here legally. The cops on the West Side, which is where most refugees live, all ask about your immigration status during investigations. Sometimes they do it when a large crowd gathers in order to break it up. *sigh* Stop complaining about cops cuz they are always worse somewhere else!
But anyways, I've been thinking, and yeah, the times I've been pulled over were mostly my fault. I am contesting the window tint ticket though, because I honestly feel as though it is legal.
I live in Iowa, rife with small towns everywhere. Iowa law states that your tint can block no more than 25% of the light going through your front two windows. The main reason I feel that my tint isn't too dark is: 1) if my tint's not legal, then dodge is/was selling cars not legal for the state of Iowa thanks to my mother's Durango and its factory tint about as dark as mine. And 2) My dad's been driving my car out of town, and he got pulled over himself (going slightly over the speed limit ^^") and the cop that stopped him felt that the windows weren't tinted too dark.
As of now, all my windows work, my plate light's been fixed and my windshield wipers are no longer in my field of view. The only thing that doesn't work is that the windshield wipers don't do anything anymore.
I do have a question though. Where can one go to actually get the window tint gauged? The only place I know for sure has a tint gauge is the local police in the town I got stopped at. The police station in Newton (Where my dad got pulled over) said they don't have the proper equipment and my dad's checked the many dealers he drives by on his way to work. I'm thinking about stopping by the highway patrol station just outside of town to see if they have one. If not there, where should I check?
Why aren't you fixing your light? You are wasting their time and yours. I didn't read past there on your thread, by the way. Go to an auto shop, spend five dollars on a light, put it in yourself, and move on.
I agree 100%. I wouldn't complain about cops pulling you over when you're giving them a reason, no matter how "weak" that reason is. I've been pulled over for random stuff like that too, and you know what? They stop doing it when you fix the issue.
I'm not a dick to officer with regular stops.
I'm a dick to officers who ask to search my car without a reason or a warrant.
See the difference?
As soon as they want to waste my time searching my car, I give them a hard time.
As stated in an example, if the officer told me what they were looking for, I would let him search my car. If he says, nope, just need to look around. I will say no 100% of the time.
The difference there being they can make your life MUCH harder than you can make theres. So you don't be a dick about it.
If you refuse to get your car searched, they can take you down to the station, impound your car, if they really want to they can get a warrant and tear your car apart, all the while racking up MAJOR fees and fines that you will have to pay.
It's never worth it to try and be "clever" to a cop. They will win. Every time.
To the OP, the cops have been pulling you over for a valid reason. Every single one of them could have given you a ticket for not having your plate light working. You'd be THOUSANDS of dollars in the hole for ticket fees, your insurance would be *astronomical*, and you'd have mulitple points on your liscense right now. 11(!) officers let you off the hook with a wanring. And now you think they're "harassing" you? Jesus Christ, you should be making donations to the local FOP for so many officers cutting you a break.
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My quote friend here tends to disagree with you.
Anyway, you're saying that you're used to being searched, so it's no big deal. I'm use to being shot at, does that mean it's no big deal?
I have no problem with FBS. I have a problem with Patdowns. We're not talking about airport security.
I would like you to answer my question. Why is a quote from one of the founding fathers, who you people hold so highly, dumb?
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Your quote of me didn't show me saying you don't have the right. Remember I said:
Now cops ask you to search your car, cause it's your right to not have your car searched. However they have literally dozens of legal precedence and laws that allow them to search your vehicle if they need. That's what the two quotes say. And they do not need a warrant to search your main compartment of the car, just the trunk and the locked glove box. They need either your permissoin or probably cause. Since probable cause is not a black and white legal precedence, then they can find a way to look in your car, if they feel they need to. I'm not saying all cops will always want to look in your car, however, if they want, they will.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
They need neither a warrant, or probable cause to look at the backseat of your car. This is not considered a "search". They do need a warrant/your consent to look in your trunk (if it isn't visible) or your glove box.
The quote is indeed still relevant. I would rather be a little less safe when riding on a train, than have some dude in a suit rifle through my bag before I got on the train. I do not have a problem with them scanning the bag, just going through it.
You're saying they do not need a warrant to search your car, and you said it in the post I quoted. That is not true at all. The bolded part of your post (by me) disagrees with what you're stating heavily.
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They need a warrant to:
Search your glove box
Search your trunk
They do not need a warrant to:
Search your main compartment of the vehicle.
That is what I said that you bolded.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Here in Maine they need a warrant to search anything non visible.
Answer my question
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Me and some mates can even dack spray cans and just tell them its our erect penises and they have no leg to stand on, unlike me. I love being a minor in Australia.
LOL
Couple things, NavyJoe.
'Looking suspicious' is not a reason cops can use to pull someone over. Period. Matching the description of a person of interest IS a reason to pull someone over, but that is not the same thing as 'looking suspicious'.
And exercising your rights does not make you a dick.
-Looking suspicious: One afternoon four of my siblings, aged between 10-19, were detained by 3 police cruisers while walking home from a local park for 'looking suspicious'. This was literally the only reason listed in the police reports, there had been no crimes reported, there was no description or account of suspicious activity, no charges pressed or arrests made. Just on site interrogations that brought everyone but my 19 year old brother to tears before he told the police they were done and ordered my little sisters and brother to ignore the police and continue walking home. By the end of that lawsuit the county sheriff office had to pay out 5 figures (not counting their lawyer fees) for their illegal actions.
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Well, to begin a $1 trillion war on top of another $1 trillion war combined with several unpaid for security measures that have in specific cases marginal benefits and increasing costs. Certainly there have been safety increases, however the Homeland Security System itself has become a posh way for companies to extricate sexy security equipment onto government with marginal benefits to overall security.
If you want to discuss the days of yore, they were still quite a ways dangerous.
Conrad Weiser, Friend of Colonist and Mohawk:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4hMTAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=conrad+weiser&hl=en&ei=6EBUTsbgJeH20gGh5rS4Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
Susan Cox:
http://books.google.com/books?id=QoouAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA7&dq=the+hanging+of+susanna+cox&hl=en&ei=k0FUTpCYN6Px0gHuy7yxAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
Sullivan Campaign in 1789:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ADbzmjtW790C&pg=PR5&dq=the+sullivan+campaign&hl=en&ei=ZkJUTpC4Ganf0QHk5pSdAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=the%20sullivan%20campaign&f=false
And this happened in Franklin's state, so he's not totally an idiot, either when it comes to "security issues." The only difference now is how people are trying to kill, but we still see some of the same wastes and changes in our way of life that do not always match the frequency of terrorist attacks, either.
Also, one particular event with Andrew Johnson had a story where he was giving a stump speech and a person came into the store or tavern with a gun. I forget exactly what Johnson said, but the gist was Johnson pulled out his own gun and the person eventually left. These people knew security risks just as we have, in a different context sure but they can certain empathize and understand some of the frustrations. The issue we have is just like then, if we have too much of the wrong kind of securities we will live in a police state (the bad kind).
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That seems to pretty much sum things up.
This post is too funny to be spam.
anyway, Navyjoe, you're wrong, just accept it.
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Also, Tiax wins this thread.
Two...see statement one of how any routine stop can get you dead. Do you really think that officers are like...yeah! People to pull over. Who can I mess with on this shift? No...I know officers personally since they keep tabs on our register at the hotel I work at. They come by at night to see if anybody they are tracking has checked in. Less drug dealers means less chances of incidents on my shift from 11p-7a. I've been on duty during hotel drug busts. It's not fun. It's really scary actually.
They hate having to pull people over. Why not do the proper thing and:
Not give them a reason to do so (not that hard) or if they do...not giving them grief for it?
Do you really think I want to go mess with the domestic disturbance call at 4:00 am or the chick who's breaking out car windows with a baseball bat because her boyfriend is shacking up?
On a legal level, saying officers do not need warrants to search your cars is incorrect.
I'm not saying he's wrong in the sense of sacrificing security for freedom.
Yes.
Tiax wins this thread
He also has posted the most content.
The new cop (who joined 4 months ago) in his first month, pulled over 134 different people, and tickted 122 of them.
Power trip = being human.
Exactly
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Your average police officer would love to just sit there and listen to the radio, drink coffee, eat doughnuts, and talk to their partner instead of actually having to pull people over.
99% of their tickets and pulls are routine. There is always that one person who IS running guns or drugs though. The kind of person who WILL put a bullet in you because of the fact that he IS doing something that will send him to jail.
That knowledge alone deserves a little respect from anybody. Unless you're a complete self-centered douche who cares only about himself. Oh...you're an inconvenience to me...how can I be a prick about my precious rights? Screw you...my rights take precedence over your concern for your own safety or attempts to keep a few people who actually are making society more dangerous out of it. Is that what you're saying?
If you're not doing anything that warrants it, you probably won't get pulled. If you are going 55 in a fifty-fo' and it's a posted limit...how exactly are you not in violation of a posted mandate? The cops usually even give you slack on that...so everybody goes four or nine over depending on the tolerance of the speed limit they're in. Those bastards. They don't just nail you for going a couple over and give you an actual leeway of bending the law.
Any cop who really wants to give out tickets for that can...it just costs the state and courts money and raises my taxes to process the extra paperwork. You breaking the law on posted speed limits infringes on me personally in that case, so what about my rights to not have other asses in society cost me money for not speeding and having a state inspected vehicle with working lights?
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Keeping your car up-to-date and doing proper things when they pull you will probably not get you harassed as much or send people on power trips (not saying it doesn't happen, but what are you going to do?). Things like keeping your hands in plain view, having your ID and registration ready, pulling over far enough, and things like that.
In regards to the OP - having your plate light out, a driver's side window that doesn't work, and a multitude of other things that require you to do things out of the ordinary from a routine stop is just asking for trouble. It also gets you pulled over and over. I'd just fix the problems they keep bringing up (on the 15 times they've pulled you over) and get on with life rather than cry harassment.
I'm a dick to officers who ask to search my car without a reason or a warrant.
See the difference?
As soon as they want to waste my time searching my car, I give them a hard time.
As stated in an example, if the officer told me what they were looking for, I would let him search my car. If he says, nope, just need to look around. I will say no 100% of the time.
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Especially on highway pull overs. If they pull you over for speeding they have to worry about (a) getting shot by the driver or passenger or (b) being clipped by a semi ( I know two cops who have had their careers ended this way). Just getting out of the car on the shoulder IOC the freeway is an extreme occupational hazard.
Which is why I pull over as far as possible. Why I have my hands up on the steering wheel. Which is why I'm polite and courteous and relatable. The sooner the cop figures out I'm one of us and not one of "them" (that might put a bullet in him), the better off we both are.
Ive seen it dozens of times on deadliest car chases on real video footage from the front patrolcarcam: Riff raff with broken tail light or speeding or expired registration gets pulled over, starts jabbering about his rights being violated, blah blah blah, refuses a search, becomes more argumentative, next thing you know the passenger has a 9 out and is firing at the officer, or the car does a peel out, and it's on like Donkey Kong...
A cop does NOT enjoy spending his day making traffic stops. I'm sure he'd much prefer to be "solving real crimes".
If you don't have anything to hide and know you aren't doing anything wrong, why give them a hard time about it? They're just doing their job (99% of the time. Yes. I will concede that some of them are just dicks. Do you honestly think that is more than a handful of them?).
As soon as you start giving them the..."What are you looking for specifically/go get a warrant" spiel you immediately send up caution flags. Sending up flags gives them reason to be much less friendly with you and much more aggressive because of those warning signs. Normal people with nothing to hide (like myself) are like sure...go nuts. You might waste ten minutes of my day, but there are more important things to worry about than a little inconvenience and it puts them more at ease.
If somebody is like "Sure, go ahead" do you think they are now expecting to find anything? Rather than the full search they were going to do, you probably just get a cursory glance now. No sane person willingly consents to a search when he is doing something he shouldn't be doing.
Glove compartment? "Screw you, go get a warrant". What kind of reaction are you expecting to get from that retort?
Asking them what they are looking for is pointless. Seriously. If you actually have cocaine in the car and they go "We're looking for cocaine", do you think the person actually possessing is going to say "Okay."
No. Depending on the person I'm thinking a violent altercation occurs immediately after that exchange takes place. Not tipping you off in regards to what they suspect is probably safer. Not that it matters if you really do have something to hide. It's going to end badly for the officer most of the time (either they have to get involved in an altercation and endanger themselves or they get dead).
So it's kind of a catch 22 for them with you, isn't it? You aren't doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide, yet you want specifics on what they are doing and why.
I'm not talking about minimizing the harassment of the police by those suggestions, I'm talking about how to make their jobs smoother once you are pulled over and the process is underway.
Police corruption exists. Government spends money on stupid crap. Accountants embezzle. I don't overestimate their honesty as an entity more than I do anything else.
Just because say, the IRS, decides to audit me doesn't usually mean they're bored and have nothing else to do or are on a power trip. By the logic offered in this thread I should be like..."Why do you want to audit me?" "Go get a warrant or affidavit from a judge before I'll give you access to any of my financial records." How do you think they'll react to that? Your audit will now become more intensive, go back farther, and require more receipts and proof of taxable income.
The type of car you have makes a big difference. My bf has a black Grand Prix with tinted windows(they're illegal but he refuses to change them) and its a cop magnet. He's had cops follow him from one end of a town to the city limits before. Though I will say that the cops in my area have been pretty nice. Once he was going to work when a cop pulled him over to let him know his trunk was open, ignoring the overwhelming scent of marijuana in his car.
I live on an international border, the US-Canada border, and cops here have alot more power to do things. At the bus station city buses and Greyhounds come and leave and the US Border Patrol is there 24/7, complete with assault rifles and drug dogs. They ask everyone their citizenship and their business in Buffalo which can get complicated at times. Buffalo has a growing refugee population and so many people in Buffalo aren't US citizens but are here legally. The cops on the West Side, which is where most refugees live, all ask about your immigration status during investigations. Sometimes they do it when a large crowd gathers in order to break it up. *sigh* Stop complaining about cops cuz they are always worse somewhere else!
But anyways, I've been thinking, and yeah, the times I've been pulled over were mostly my fault. I am contesting the window tint ticket though, because I honestly feel as though it is legal.
I live in Iowa, rife with small towns everywhere. Iowa law states that your tint can block no more than 25% of the light going through your front two windows. The main reason I feel that my tint isn't too dark is: 1) if my tint's not legal, then dodge is/was selling cars not legal for the state of Iowa thanks to my mother's Durango and its factory tint about as dark as mine. And 2) My dad's been driving my car out of town, and he got pulled over himself (going slightly over the speed limit ^^") and the cop that stopped him felt that the windows weren't tinted too dark.
As of now, all my windows work, my plate light's been fixed and my windshield wipers are no longer in my field of view. The only thing that doesn't work is that the windshield wipers don't do anything anymore.
I do have a question though. Where can one go to actually get the window tint gauged? The only place I know for sure has a tint gauge is the local police in the town I got stopped at. The police station in Newton (Where my dad got pulled over) said they don't have the proper equipment and my dad's checked the many dealers he drives by on his way to work. I'm thinking about stopping by the highway patrol station just outside of town to see if they have one. If not there, where should I check?
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I agree 100%. I wouldn't complain about cops pulling you over when you're giving them a reason, no matter how "weak" that reason is. I've been pulled over for random stuff like that too, and you know what? They stop doing it when you fix the issue.
The difference there being they can make your life MUCH harder than you can make theres. So you don't be a dick about it.
If you refuse to get your car searched, they can take you down to the station, impound your car, if they really want to they can get a warrant and tear your car apart, all the while racking up MAJOR fees and fines that you will have to pay.
It's never worth it to try and be "clever" to a cop. They will win. Every time.
To the OP, the cops have been pulling you over for a valid reason. Every single one of them could have given you a ticket for not having your plate light working. You'd be THOUSANDS of dollars in the hole for ticket fees, your insurance would be *astronomical*, and you'd have mulitple points on your liscense right now. 11(!) officers let you off the hook with a wanring. And now you think they're "harassing" you? Jesus Christ, you should be making donations to the local FOP for so many officers cutting you a break.