Why exactly is Mir really an underdog? Mind, you I'm rooting for Lesnar, if only because i think Mir's reached his potential and won't get any better, whereas Lesnar could really go high as he learns the full MMA game, but it's not been that long a time since their last fight for Lesnar to learn the game.
Mir has the technique to beat Lesnar if he gets the opportunity. Does Lesnar have the raw power to win? Sure. But if he slips or gets slightly cocky (which seems likely to me) Mir can get another submission.
I think i'd weigh the fight fairly even. In a year, year and a half Lesnar would be a big favorite in my eyes, but not now.
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Grice over Gugerty by TKO. Grice was robbed against Veach and actually happens to be pretty good. The guy would go places if his submission game was better and actually had some sort of regard for any sort of defense whatsoever.
Dolloway over Lawlor by Submission. Lawlor's pretty scrappy, but Dolloway is talented AND scrappy.
Kim over Grant by submission. I think Dong is overrated (tee hee), but he's talented as hell. Unfortunately he doesn't have a lot of power, but he's just way too polished for TJ.
Jones over O'Brien by decision. O'Brien at 205 is an awesome underdog bet, but Jones has talent coming out of his eyelids. The dude's a serious force, and an awesome bluechip prospect even if he loses.
Miller over Danzig by decision. Danzig's good but he's too conservative to beat a guy like Miller who will continue to take him down and has good submissions. Miller's a carbon copy of Guida but better (crisper striking, and a better offensive submission game: nasty guillotines just like his brother).
Bonnar over Coleman by age/TKO. Unlike Shogun, Bonnar won't be gassed after three seconds into round 1. Shogun at least had an excuse in that fight: Coleman clearly did not.
Akiyama over Belcher by TKO. Yea Belcher beat Kang, but Kang has proven to be flaky, while Belcher has proven to be even flakier: remember...Belcher is a guy that got splattered by Grove and Day (!).
Fitch over Thiago by decision. Thiago did not look good at all, even in victory over a guy like Koscheck. Fitch is as consistent and well rounded as they come. Thiago isn't.
Bisping over Henderson by decision-ing Dan. It's my upset pick of the night. Henderson has always been an up and down fighter, looking brilliant against Wand, Arona, and Rampage, and then looking horrid against Misaki, Kondo, Ninja. Bisping is actually kind of like Misaki striking wise. I don't think Bisping is a great fighter, but he has the kind of style that reinforces the delusion Dan has of being a great striker (technically sound, but with no power giving Henderson the idea that he can keep winging that right hand with reckless abandon).
GSP over Alves by submission. I honestly can't decide. Alves has the power to upset GSP and the wrestling/strength to keep it on the feet at least in the beginning: this is where Alves wins the fight - early. Otherwise GSP wins by decision or he submits him. I wouldn't be surprised. St. Pierre continues to improve so dramatically that I wouldn't be shocked if he started passing Alves' guard like butter. If he passed BJ's (tee hee #2), he could pass Thiago's.
Lesnar over Mir by TKO. I just think Lesnar has the sense to keep it on the feet where he's clearly superior. Mir didn't even look that great in his last outing insofar as Nog just looked that much worse.
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I'm sorry I can't see Bisping winning over Dan. Bisping's only been fighting cans. The only tough comp he's fought he's lost (Evans) and with Hamil was a controversial win. I can't name any one beside those two he fought being in the top ten or 15 for that matter. Where as Hendo's being fighting top comp all his life. Beat Franklin (who imo would school Bisping in technical striking) and put up a decent performance againest A.Silva.
Other wise I think your list looks good. Brock has a very good chance againest Mir if he's been working on he's sub defence. But Mir is a blackbelt in BJJ so who knows.
My Bisping pick is one of those "well one pick needs to be against common wisdom" picks: and besides...this is the sport that doesn't care about common wisdom. Regardless of who Bisping beat and who he's lost to, I can see Bisping winning, and not be shocked at all. As I said, Hendo has beat top competition as much as he's lost and/or struggled with non top competition: Ninja, Kondo, Misaki, Goes, Newton (should have lost either one of those last two).
I'm not saying Hendo is overrated: just that his performances aren't always stellar and Bisping, with his better technique on the feet (watch his kickboxing match against Cyril Diabete), has the ability to exploit that, overrated can crusher or not.
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Alves ended up making weight after all, but he looked pretty drained. One of his trainers was giving him fluids immediately after he got off the scale! I hope it doesn't affect his stamina in the cage, I want to see a good fight.
Also, I hope the Bones fight makes it onto the PPV broadcast. He was definitely gassed in rounds 2 and 3 against Bonnar, but he had some sick, highlight reel throws, plus that crazy spinning elbow!
With a lot of polish, he's the only guy I can see realistically even having a snowball's chance in hell against Machida. And yea those moves were sick. Awesome lateral.
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I was extremely happy as I wanted 2 things to happen. Hendersonn Knock Bisping out, Lesnar embarrass Mir. Both happened.
That Hendo knockout was sick. OMG. I thought he might actually have been dead. lol. I am ready to see henderson get his title rematch.
I know a lot of people don't like Lesnar. I have loved him since his first UFC fight. I hope he goes on to be the most dominate UFC heavyweight champion ever!!
Lesnar is truly a trashy redneck. He has no respect for the game or other fighters. He got lucky. Herb Dean gave him a gift because Mazzigati stood him up last time, but he deserved to be stood up in both round. Lesnar would have got KTFO in the standing game.
Lesnar is truly a trashy redneck. He has no respect for the game or other fighters. He got lucky. Herb Dean gave him a gift because Mazzigati stood him up last time, but he deserved to be stood up in both round. Lesnar would have got KTFO in the standing game.
Considering Lesnar was punching the crap out of Mir's face amd body the whole time he was down there, no, they shouldn't have. The ref was not a factor, what was a factor was Lesnar having a better gameplan.
I watched UFC 100 last night. GSP was dominant, as always. Dan Henderson totally shut up that British guy, that was an awesome fight.
I'm not a huge UFC guy, I watch once in a while. I guess I'm sort of a front runner b/c my favorites are Georges St-Pierre and Anderson Silva, the two definitive best pound-for-pound fighters. I just really like highly skilled and lighter guys over muscular brutes.
EDIT: DivineChaos I just noticed your Henderson gif. Thanks! That was awesome, I was so glad that he knocked him out, especially after bisping has never been knocked out.
I'm just a casual MMA fan but caught the Lesnar fight last night. I have no idea how anyone thinks Lesnar should respect Mir or anyone else to be honest. Mir was talking so much trash leading into the fight and got his ass completely destroyed for seven minutes last night. He has the right to be pissed off, no one gives him any respect, certainly not other MMA fans and certainly not Bud Light:laugh:
It's amazing how when it comes to MMA, casual fans are so much smarter than hardcore fans. Seriously.
I enjoy the fact that Lesnar plays the heel because he plays it well, and everyone and especially those who hate him want to watch him. It's amazing how people continue to criticize Lesnar as some brute with nothing but size: he wasn't just sitting in Frank's guard waiting for the clock to run - he was sitting in Mir's guard, which is extremely good - and beating the hell out of him.
This was his 5th career MMA fight. Have some perspective people.
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Lesnar is truly a trashy redneck. He has no respect for the game or other fighters. He got lucky. Herb Dean gave him a gift because Mazzigati stood him up last time, but he deserved to be stood up in both round. Lesnar would have got KTFO in the standing game.
Uh, no? Fighters should not be stood up unless its clear they're not doing anything. Mazzigatti was way too early with the stand up last time. I haven't seen the fight this time yet (but i've read recaps) but still, a fight really really needs to be going nowhere to be stood up.....like 20-30 seconds of doing nothing.
The reason I love MMA (and the UFC by extension) is that it avoids the annoyingness of boxing's refs interfering really often with the fights....fights go on till the round ends or until they're finished, with no ref work needed.
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Umm..First of all, Brock was NOT in Mir's guard. He was in Half Guard. HUGE difference. There were multiple times in the first round where brocks was just laying chest on chest with mir, then would throw 2 shots and lay for another 20-30 seconds. The fight should have definently been stood up int he first. If the Ref asks a guy to work 5 consecutive times and then does nothing while the guy continues to lay there...C'mon man. He wasn't "Punching the crap out of him the entire time."
I do have perspecitive..The guy is garbage. He's gonna either be Outwrestled or KTFO in his next bout. As it will be against Shane Carwin or Fedor.
You mean his first fight with Mir? When he was landing illegal blows?
My recollection is ONE illegal blow. Which is not justification for standing up.
@Divine, um no? If someone's PASSED an opponents guard or is at least in half guard, MORE leeway should be given for letting the fight stand. Lesnar WAS doing something with it, as we can clearly see, so it should not have been stood up.
Seriously, that's just sour grapes.
As for fedor, won't happen. Just sadly won't happen.
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Umm..First of all, Brock was NOT in Mir's guard. He was in Half Guard. HUGE difference. There were multiple times in the first round where brocks was just laying chest on chest with mir, then would throw 2 shots and lay for another 20-30 seconds. The fight should have definently been stood up int he first. If the Ref asks a guy to work 5 consecutive times and then does nothing while the guy continues to lay there...C'mon man. He wasn't "Punching the crap out of him the entire time."
I do have perspecitive..The guy is garbage. He's gonna either be Outwrestled or KTFO in his next bout. As it will be against Shane Carwin or Fedor.
There's a huge difference being in guard and half guard. You're right. Bit it doesn't prove your point, whatever it may be. He was still on the ground with a very experienced submission fighter in only his 5th MMA fight for 90% of the fight, and it ended in a TKO during round 2.
Brock was hardly just laying there. If he sat there and noogied him occasionally, yea, I would argue for a standup, but he didn't and Mir's face after round 1 was evidence of that.
Brock may be garbage as a person, but he's actually skilled on top of that. You don't become a 2 time Big Ten Champ, and NCAA all star on "size alone". You just don't. Period.
Carwin may not even get through Valesquez, so I don't think he's the one, even if he's got a good chance. I'd love to see a Fedor fight, but as always, people will underrate Brock and act like Fedor will take it with ease (Brock has good top control regardless of whether it's boring, and the only time Fedor saw this, it could be argued was also the time he lost: Arona...course, it helps that Arona was an ADCC phenom but still).
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I dont see what the skills of Brock you're talking about. He literally outweighed Mir by prob 40-50 pounds. It's like basically like someone like Rampage fighting a light weight.
The whole match he literally held Mir's hand down and punched him. No great skill in that. All Brock has shown is that he's stronger/bigger than his opponent.
I like how he let Mir stand up in round 2, tried to box with him, got rocked with punches + knees, and instantly went back to laying on top of Mir to play the hold them down + punch game.
I dont see what the skills of Brock you're talking about. He literally outweighed Mir by prob 40-50 pounds. It's like basically like someone like Rampage fighting a light weight.
The whole match he literally held Mir's hand down and punched him. No great skill in that. All Brock has shown is that he's stronger/bigger than his opponent.
I like how he let Mir stand up in round 2, tried to box with him, got rocked with punches + knees, and instantly went back to laying on top of Mir to play the hold them down + punch game.
Heavyweight guys outweighed by that much have been able to handle opponents before....there's a reason why most heavyweights are more around Mir's weight than Lesnar...it's more worth it usually to go for the speed and quickness than the extra weight.
Lesnar is freakishly quick which enables him to get into that position where his weight gives him the strength edge.
Huge guys are not new to MMA. Huge guys winning this way, well is not the norm.
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Were you people asleep when it became common knowledge that Lesnar wasn't just some "pro wrestler" (plenty of acclaimed fighters have a background in pro wrestling including fan favorites Kazushi Sakuraba and Josh Barnett), but an NCAA standout?
If size alone was what allowed Brock to beat Couture, Mir, and Herring then why isn't Bob Sapp a champ too? Yes he literally held Mir's hands down and punched him...meaning what exactly? Have you people ever grappled, and therefore understand the importance of wrist control or do you guys just eat cheetos and play magic all day as many magic players appear to do?
Not actively trying to be a dick here, but it's annoying how people that call themselves MMA fans have this bitter hatred against fighters that win with wrestling (plenty of people have called GSP's win over Alves "boring" - not here but elsewhere), and wrestling in general. Wrestling is something that Brock is skilled at, and it wins him fights. Where are the people complaining that Maia doesn't strike more, or that Hendo didn't wrestle against Bisping? Because you fight with the style that wins for you of course. Although this is moot since Brock actually TKO'ed Mir in round 2.
Yes Brock owes a lot of success to his size, but it's the combination of size, skill (NCAA what?), athleticism (above average even in the NFL when he tried out for the Vikings even though he didn't make the cut - his time in the 40 yard dash was 4.7 seconds: good numbers by any standard for a guy his size), and knowledge of the game (watch his takedowns against Couture to counter back control, or his debut where he passed Min Soo Kim's guard like butter - admittedly a can but a can with an established grappling/Judo background) that makes him a premiere heavyweight.
Sylvia had to cut to make weight to HW but how many complained when he fought Couture? I don't like Brock personally but it's hilarious how obvious this double standard and general bias against him is.
Brock is basically a better version of Coleman; kind of ironic that the Hammer was on the undercard. Unskilled fighters don't beat Randy Couture and Frank Mir back to back. Effective and looking pretty are two different things.
There's still the matter of Minotauro (if he's healthy), and none of the previous UFC champs have held onto the belt for long.
Brock's ego isn't all that different from the typical fan, and Dana drops more **** this and **** that than he does.
First I would like to respond to Topper: I do not play magic all day. I was a 4 year varsity wrestler in high school and girlfriend issues and my love of San Diego held me back from a scholarship to Oklahoma. I've also done Jiu-Jitsu for 2 year and have fought 2 amatuer fights.
I never said the guy was completely unskilled. He has wrestling. Really good wrestling. But he NEVER passed guard and just laid there. He landed in half guard in both take downs and Half-giard has a whole hell of a lot less opitions from the bottom then guard. My point is Brock was not making nearly enough action not to be stood up. The fight was literally one man laying on top of another man. Brock DID get wrist control and that was(as mir admitted) a huge mistake on Mir's part.
Also my point when I said he was in Half guard not guard was because you said Brock was sitting in Mir's Guard. He wasn't. He has only been in Mir's guard once and Brock tapped. I also agree that Brock had no buisness fighting Mir in his second fight ever. and he had no buisness fighting Couture. he won because He is more skilled at wrestling then Couture but his strength and quickness is what beat couture. Not his skills.
And whoever said GSP vs alves was boring is ********.
@Loran: I just watched the Lesnar vs Mir one. I counted 8 shots to the back of the head. Please don't listen to Joe Rogan.
Edit: rewatched second fight, wow. about a minute went by until Frank gave Brock the wrist. They were just laying there for a MINUTE. Also when Brock takes Frank down in the first he actually LOST position. I was in Side Control(or at least was a lunge away from being in Side Control) and frank turned his hips and slide his foot into half guard. In the second round, Brock didn't work for a full 30 seconds after the take down, and he didn't throw any hard shots until 5 seconds after the takedown. Clearly fight should have been stood up and it was a Gift from Herb Dean to brock because they didn't want Brock to ***** about the reffing again.
Mir has the technique to beat Lesnar if he gets the opportunity. Does Lesnar have the raw power to win? Sure. But if he slips or gets slightly cocky (which seems likely to me) Mir can get another submission.
I think i'd weigh the fight fairly even. In a year, year and a half Lesnar would be a big favorite in my eyes, but not now.
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Grice over Gugerty by TKO. Grice was robbed against Veach and actually happens to be pretty good. The guy would go places if his submission game was better and actually had some sort of regard for any sort of defense whatsoever.
Dolloway over Lawlor by Submission. Lawlor's pretty scrappy, but Dolloway is talented AND scrappy.
Kim over Grant by submission. I think Dong is overrated (tee hee), but he's talented as hell. Unfortunately he doesn't have a lot of power, but he's just way too polished for TJ.
Jones over O'Brien by decision. O'Brien at 205 is an awesome underdog bet, but Jones has talent coming out of his eyelids. The dude's a serious force, and an awesome bluechip prospect even if he loses.
Miller over Danzig by decision. Danzig's good but he's too conservative to beat a guy like Miller who will continue to take him down and has good submissions. Miller's a carbon copy of Guida but better (crisper striking, and a better offensive submission game: nasty guillotines just like his brother).
Bonnar over Coleman by age/TKO. Unlike Shogun, Bonnar won't be gassed after three seconds into round 1. Shogun at least had an excuse in that fight: Coleman clearly did not.
Akiyama over Belcher by TKO. Yea Belcher beat Kang, but Kang has proven to be flaky, while Belcher has proven to be even flakier: remember...Belcher is a guy that got splattered by Grove and Day (!).
Fitch over Thiago by decision. Thiago did not look good at all, even in victory over a guy like Koscheck. Fitch is as consistent and well rounded as they come. Thiago isn't.
Bisping over Henderson by decision-ing Dan. It's my upset pick of the night. Henderson has always been an up and down fighter, looking brilliant against Wand, Arona, and Rampage, and then looking horrid against Misaki, Kondo, Ninja. Bisping is actually kind of like Misaki striking wise. I don't think Bisping is a great fighter, but he has the kind of style that reinforces the delusion Dan has of being a great striker (technically sound, but with no power giving Henderson the idea that he can keep winging that right hand with reckless abandon).
GSP over Alves by submission. I honestly can't decide. Alves has the power to upset GSP and the wrestling/strength to keep it on the feet at least in the beginning: this is where Alves wins the fight - early. Otherwise GSP wins by decision or he submits him. I wouldn't be surprised. St. Pierre continues to improve so dramatically that I wouldn't be shocked if he started passing Alves' guard like butter. If he passed BJ's (tee hee #2), he could pass Thiago's.
Lesnar over Mir by TKO. I just think Lesnar has the sense to keep it on the feet where he's clearly superior. Mir didn't even look that great in his last outing insofar as Nog just looked that much worse.
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Other wise I think your list looks good. Brock has a very good chance againest Mir if he's been working on he's sub defence. But Mir is a blackbelt in BJJ so who knows.
I'm not saying Hendo is overrated: just that his performances aren't always stellar and Bisping, with his better technique on the feet (watch his kickboxing match against Cyril Diabete), has the ability to exploit that, overrated can crusher or not.
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Also, I hope the Bones fight makes it onto the PPV broadcast. He was definitely gassed in rounds 2 and 3 against Bonnar, but he had some sick, highlight reel throws, plus that crazy spinning elbow!
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
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He got totally tooled by Hendo.
That was one of the most brutal knockouts I've ever seen. I actually feared for Bisping's life.
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I was extremely happy as I wanted 2 things to happen. Hendersonn Knock Bisping out, Lesnar embarrass Mir. Both happened.
That Hendo knockout was sick. OMG. I thought he might actually have been dead. lol. I am ready to see henderson get his title rematch.
I know a lot of people don't like Lesnar. I have loved him since his first UFC fight. I hope he goes on to be the most dominate UFC heavyweight champion ever!!
I'm gonna go have a Coors light now!
Also, Hendo Gif =
Considering Lesnar was punching the crap out of Mir's face amd body the whole time he was down there, no, they shouldn't have. The ref was not a factor, what was a factor was Lesnar having a better gameplan.
I'm not a huge UFC guy, I watch once in a while. I guess I'm sort of a front runner b/c my favorites are Georges St-Pierre and Anderson Silva, the two definitive best pound-for-pound fighters. I just really like highly skilled and lighter guys over muscular brutes.
EDIT: DivineChaos I just noticed your Henderson gif. Thanks! That was awesome, I was so glad that he knocked him out, especially after bisping has never been knocked out.
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It's amazing how when it comes to MMA, casual fans are so much smarter than hardcore fans. Seriously.
I enjoy the fact that Lesnar plays the heel because he plays it well, and everyone and especially those who hate him want to watch him. It's amazing how people continue to criticize Lesnar as some brute with nothing but size: he wasn't just sitting in Frank's guard waiting for the clock to run - he was sitting in Mir's guard, which is extremely good - and beating the hell out of him.
This was his 5th career MMA fight. Have some perspective people.
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Uh, no? Fighters should not be stood up unless its clear they're not doing anything. Mazzigatti was way too early with the stand up last time. I haven't seen the fight this time yet (but i've read recaps) but still, a fight really really needs to be going nowhere to be stood up.....like 20-30 seconds of doing nothing.
The reason I love MMA (and the UFC by extension) is that it avoids the annoyingness of boxing's refs interfering really often with the fights....fights go on till the round ends or until they're finished, with no ref work needed.
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I do have perspecitive..The guy is garbage. He's gonna either be Outwrestled or KTFO in his next bout. As it will be against Shane Carwin or Fedor.
You mean his first fight with Mir? When he was landing illegal blows?
My recollection is ONE illegal blow. Which is not justification for standing up.
@Divine, um no? If someone's PASSED an opponents guard or is at least in half guard, MORE leeway should be given for letting the fight stand. Lesnar WAS doing something with it, as we can clearly see, so it should not have been stood up.
Seriously, that's just sour grapes.
As for fedor, won't happen. Just sadly won't happen.
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There's a huge difference being in guard and half guard. You're right. Bit it doesn't prove your point, whatever it may be. He was still on the ground with a very experienced submission fighter in only his 5th MMA fight for 90% of the fight, and it ended in a TKO during round 2.
Brock was hardly just laying there. If he sat there and noogied him occasionally, yea, I would argue for a standup, but he didn't and Mir's face after round 1 was evidence of that.
Brock may be garbage as a person, but he's actually skilled on top of that. You don't become a 2 time Big Ten Champ, and NCAA all star on "size alone". You just don't. Period.
Carwin may not even get through Valesquez, so I don't think he's the one, even if he's got a good chance. I'd love to see a Fedor fight, but as always, people will underrate Brock and act like Fedor will take it with ease (Brock has good top control regardless of whether it's boring, and the only time Fedor saw this, it could be argued was also the time he lost: Arona...course, it helps that Arona was an ADCC phenom but still).
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The whole match he literally held Mir's hand down and punched him. No great skill in that. All Brock has shown is that he's stronger/bigger than his opponent.
I like how he let Mir stand up in round 2, tried to box with him, got rocked with punches + knees, and instantly went back to laying on top of Mir to play the hold them down + punch game.
Heavyweight guys outweighed by that much have been able to handle opponents before....there's a reason why most heavyweights are more around Mir's weight than Lesnar...it's more worth it usually to go for the speed and quickness than the extra weight.
Lesnar is freakishly quick which enables him to get into that position where his weight gives him the strength edge.
Huge guys are not new to MMA. Huge guys winning this way, well is not the norm.
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If size alone was what allowed Brock to beat Couture, Mir, and Herring then why isn't Bob Sapp a champ too? Yes he literally held Mir's hands down and punched him...meaning what exactly? Have you people ever grappled, and therefore understand the importance of wrist control or do you guys just eat cheetos and play magic all day as many magic players appear to do?
Not actively trying to be a dick here, but it's annoying how people that call themselves MMA fans have this bitter hatred against fighters that win with wrestling (plenty of people have called GSP's win over Alves "boring" - not here but elsewhere), and wrestling in general. Wrestling is something that Brock is skilled at, and it wins him fights. Where are the people complaining that Maia doesn't strike more, or that Hendo didn't wrestle against Bisping? Because you fight with the style that wins for you of course. Although this is moot since Brock actually TKO'ed Mir in round 2.
Yes Brock owes a lot of success to his size, but it's the combination of size, skill (NCAA what?), athleticism (above average even in the NFL when he tried out for the Vikings even though he didn't make the cut - his time in the 40 yard dash was 4.7 seconds: good numbers by any standard for a guy his size), and knowledge of the game (watch his takedowns against Couture to counter back control, or his debut where he passed Min Soo Kim's guard like butter - admittedly a can but a can with an established grappling/Judo background) that makes him a premiere heavyweight.
Sylvia had to cut to make weight to HW but how many complained when he fought Couture? I don't like Brock personally but it's hilarious how obvious this double standard and general bias against him is.
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There's still the matter of Minotauro (if he's healthy), and none of the previous UFC champs have held onto the belt for long.
Brock's ego isn't all that different from the typical fan, and Dana drops more **** this and **** that than he does.
I never said the guy was completely unskilled. He has wrestling. Really good wrestling. But he NEVER passed guard and just laid there. He landed in half guard in both take downs and Half-giard has a whole hell of a lot less opitions from the bottom then guard. My point is Brock was not making nearly enough action not to be stood up. The fight was literally one man laying on top of another man. Brock DID get wrist control and that was(as mir admitted) a huge mistake on Mir's part.
Also my point when I said he was in Half guard not guard was because you said Brock was sitting in Mir's Guard. He wasn't. He has only been in Mir's guard once and Brock tapped. I also agree that Brock had no buisness fighting Mir in his second fight ever. and he had no buisness fighting Couture. he won because He is more skilled at wrestling then Couture but his strength and quickness is what beat couture. Not his skills.
And whoever said GSP vs alves was boring is ********.
@Loran: I just watched the Lesnar vs Mir one. I counted 8 shots to the back of the head. Please don't listen to Joe Rogan.
Edit: rewatched second fight, wow. about a minute went by until Frank gave Brock the wrist. They were just laying there for a MINUTE. Also when Brock takes Frank down in the first he actually LOST position. I was in Side Control(or at least was a lunge away from being in Side Control) and frank turned his hips and slide his foot into half guard. In the second round, Brock didn't work for a full 30 seconds after the take down, and he didn't throw any hard shots until 5 seconds after the takedown. Clearly fight should have been stood up and it was a Gift from Herb Dean to brock because they didn't want Brock to ***** about the reffing again.