So, I'll come right out and say Orlando is one of the elite teams in the NBA. That being said, I don't think they can beat the Lakers 4 of 7.
You very quickly discount the "matchup" statement...like it's some imaginary element that people just made up to rationalize the Cavs losing. Did you not watch the game of Basketball before this season? The entire playoffs is about matchups. Your man Charles (I'm a fan of Barkely, but mostly for the lulz and not the top-notch sports info) and his TNT team have commented about how adjustments and playing the right people are a huge deal in the playoffs. Maybe even the biggest element given that teams in the playoffs are all supposed to be good teams. In most cases you get to have some good and some bad matchups and how they play out points to quality of coaching. How you adapt to your bad matchups and exploit your good ones often determines the outcome of critical games. In the Magic vs. Cavaliers series, the Magic had a matchup advantage in virtually every position. The only bad matchup they had to deal with was against LeBron. Not only did the Magic have a huge advantage in matchups based purely on the number of matchup advantages they had...but all of their advantages were quite big. Consider that they still have some of the same matchup advantages against the Lakers, but that it hasn't shown through so much. This is because Phil Jackson is a better coach than Mike Brown and also because the matchups are not as staggeringly in favor of the Magic.
Going 7 games against a team that lacks its best player is also not exactly an illusory knock against the Magic. It points out some problems they have...it also gives everyone (including me) the impression that they would not have made it out of round 2 if Boston was healthy.
As for game 4 you're right, it's unlikely the non-Kobe Lakers will shoot 55% from the field. But I could see them shooting 45-50% without too much trouble. I can also see the Magic maintaining a similar 45-50% shooting. Based on the last game, how do you expect game 4 to end if both teams cool off to just "good"? I also don't see Kobe scoring 10 points in the second half...regardless of how tired he is. I don't think they'll keep running the same crap high-screen that's gotten the ball stripped from Kobe 3 times in the closing moments of a game. I do think LA will be a bit smarter in calling timeouts down the stretch (really Pau? You get back the ball laying on the ground and try to pass?!). I also think Dwight might get more than 2 fouls in the first 42 minutes of the game this time. As much as he's due for an "explosive" game, he's equally as due for a game chock-full of foul trouble. He's shown an equal penchant for both, actually he probably leans more in favor of the foul trouble games. Oh...even if he has an explosive game, i don't think it gaurantees the Magic victory. The Lakers have too many options for putting points on the board.
Barkley isn't an idiot. Well, he is, but not when he talks about basketball. He has the personality of an ignorant child, but the man is a legend. He knows basketball.
Top to bottom the Magic had more talent than the Cavs. Mo Williams looked the most overrated player in the NBA and Delonte West and Wally Szcerbiak showed the world what I had been saying all along when I said they were garbage. I don't attribute these to bad matchups so much as the Cavs really aren't that talented, and they have the best overall player in the game on their team. Z and Sideshow Bob aren't good, Mo Williams is decent but grossly overrated, West is bad, Szcerbiak is bad, Gibson is bad, Ben Wallace is washed up and terrible, etc. The Cavs just aren't the this unstoppable force like everyone thought.
As for the Magic, it's great they got a win, but also sort of disheartening that they played out of their mind and only won by four (or two if you like). I hope they can pull another win, but I'm not counting on it. I hope Dwight Howard can have another big game and the shooters can keep knocking down shots.
Hopefully we can all realize that this series is over now. I honestly don't see Orlando winning even 1 more game. And even if they do, they're still getting closed out in G6.
Orlando threw absolutely everything they had at the Lakers tonight, and in the end it didn't matter. The refs gave them a million opportunities to stay in the game via free throws, and they missed so many that they should be embarassed.
Also, it's comedy that you don't think that matchups matter. When Golden State beat Dallas a few years ago in Round 1, did you think GS was the better team? No, obviously they weren't. They just matched up really well against Dallas. That's how it goes sometimes in the playoffs.
Me too. Though truthfully, I am glad Orlando won at least one game. I hate sweeps, they just make it glaringly obvious that there is a complete lack of capability somewhere. Especially when it's in a championship series
Magic starting to slowly fighting back after that BIG 16-0 run by the Lakers... Lakers still up by 10.
Trevor Ariza has totally been killing his old team in the 2nd quarter.
EDIT: There it is... halftime. Halfway through, the Magic are 1/9 from beyond the arc, Turkoglu's been horrible, Lakers are playing sound on both ends of the court... barring any shenanigans in the 2nd half, this series is about to end, folks.
So, anyone else agree that the decision to bench Rafer Alston consistently in favor for Jameer Nelson was stupid and is another fact that points toward Stan Van Gundy ultimately being a poor coach?
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i agree with that assessment. SVG has been consistently out coached this series. I might argue that coaching has been LA's biggest advantage. But it's a difficult one to really lock down compared to more obvious things like specific plays or single stats (shooting%, etc.).
kpaca: yes.
Man, it sucked not being able to watch any of these NBA Finals though.
Ugh.
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my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
So, in the aftermath of LA's win...how are the Kobe haters feeling? What about the upset Magic fans that thought their team wasn't getting enough credit? I love to gloat, but usually manage to contain it well. But today, i put my too-self-satisfied grin on and gloat to the high heavens. Ok...I'm done. [/gloat]
On a side note: i said before the series that the true X-Factor was going to be Ariza. The one game in which he didn't play well...the Lakers lose. I get some kind of warm fuzzy feeling for that statement...
Now onto a potentially huge off-season. The shape of the league next year should be very interesting.
Well really the Lakers winning anything is never a surprise they have done extremely well and have the most Finals wins since 2000. So one championship won't really alter the opinions of the Lakers all this will do is stifle more debate on the ridiculously long winded who is better Kobe or Lebron. I wouldn't change my opinion on Kobe and the Lakers if he won 100 championships in a row. I dislike both him and the franchise he is apart of period.
But I will give credit where it is due whether the team has a talent at picking players or they just happen to have the great ones plopped in their lap they sure seem to make the most of it. I personally think the Pau Gasol trade was one of the dumbest of the last 3 years when it happened. The Lakers gave up some of their weakest pieces for a very good player it really annoyed me.
I can' wait for game 6. I think the Magic can really do it this year! WHOO!!! GO SUPERMAN!
...
Anyone hear the rumors of Shaq going to Cleveland for Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovich? As a Suns fan, I like the trade rumors. I hope fatty goes to Cleveland and performs Los Angelical Blasphemy on the Lakers next season.
I don't see why the Cleveland LeBrons wouldn't do everything in their power to get Shaq. If they don't win a title next year LeBron would definitely have a better chance of heading out of Cleveland, and if they had a legitimate 2nd option or big man they very likely could have had a championship this year. For the Suns it would save them tons of money, especially if Wallace agrees to a buyout, which he very well could.
So, anyone else agree that the decision to bench Rafer Alston consistently in favor for Jameer Nelson was stupid and is another fact that points toward Stan Van Gundy ultimately being a poor coach?
Of course.
So does his inexplicable and indefensible decision not to foul when up by 3 in the dying seconds of the game. Seriously, a kids' rec league coach knows you have to foul there. And then Derek Fisher drains a 3 (nice defense on that play, btw) and the series is over.
Yeah Steve Van Gundy while progressing well with that team has really hit the wall he just does not have the presence of mind to win a championship it seems.
It's hilarious how people on this thread can see this season as a failure for the Magic. Almost no one expected them to be this good this year, and no one two years ago could have ever dreamed they would reach the finals in 2009. They had a great year, got unlucky and ran into a better team in the finals, and lost. But it's insane to start blasting SVG (clearly a very good coach after what he did this year) or Howard (clearly one of the best players in the league after what he did this year) or the rest of the team (who played well throughout the playoffs).
Some comments in this thread are ridiculous. Dwight should find a better team? As if getting to the finals means the team is bad? SVG doesn't have the presence of mind to win a championship? What!?
Winning the championship takes a great team and some luck, which the Lakers had. The Magic had a phenomenal year, and pointing fingers is dumb because everyone on the team did a great job.
I love this trade by the Spurs. Let's be honest, they gave up absolutely nothing. They gave up an old Kurt Thomas who doesn't do that much anymore, an aging Bruce Bowen who doesn't defend like he used to, and Oberto who is awkward and needs a haircut. It Ginobili can be healthy for an entire year the Spurs could have a lineup of Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan, and I guess Bonner. They also still have Mason, Finley, and Hill off the bench. Jefferson gives them another solid scoring option and he is still in the prime of his career. And if Ginobili is still hurt, Jefferson alleviates some of the offensive pressure. I like this move a lot, but it does seem as if the Spurs are somewhat desperate and are pushing all the chips in.
I love this trade by the Spurs. Let's be honest, they gave up absolutely nothing. They gave up an old Kurt Thomas who doesn't do that much anymore, an aging Bruce Bowen who doesn't defend like he used to, and Oberto who is awkward and needs a haircut. It Ginobili can be healthy for an entire year the Spurs could have a lineup of Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, Duncan, and I guess Bonner. They also still have Mason, Finley, and Hill off the bench. Jefferson gives them another solid scoring option and he is still in the prime of his career. And if Ginobili is still hurt, Jefferson alleviates some of the offensive pressure. I like this move a lot, but it does seem as if the Spurs are somewhat desperate and are pushing all the chips in.
I agree somewhat but they aren't very deep. Over 82 games they could get very tired and if they sustain an injury to any of their big 3 their chances are shot. But I think that if they make the post season then they can shine somewhat, they should get farther then this year. Does anyone else feel bad for Bowen I really thought he should deserve to stay in San Antonio until he wanted to retire he's done so much for them.
What do you guys think of the Celtics trying to trade Allen and Rondo, stupid or stupid? They have one more shot at title and they shouldn't ruin their chemistry now.
Explain to me this though why could Denver and Houston take the Lakers to more games? I mean if Orlando is considered a better team overall. Then wouldn't they push the series to 7 games also?
Houston is the only team to take the Lakers to 7 games this season in the playoffs.
Anyways watch out for the Spurs while Bowen is a valuable piece I suspect they will be able to easily compensate with Jefferson.
Yeah apparently the Lakers only play great basketball when the game means something. I agree completely they just take the night off because they know they will automatically win the series.
This is a silly explanation The Rockets are not better without Ming but they are far from pushovers. They have GREAT defenders and the best teams are built around defense not offense just ask the spurs. Crap the Lakers haven't won a thing since Shaq left until now probably because he brought some "defensive" presence that Kobe lacks.
Shaq is still in my mind a better player then Kobe and his dominance in the 3 back to back champs proves it. He just doesn't get the same level of respect because he doesn't have the level of media hype as Kobe+Lebron.
Kobe would be at 1 ring right now if Shaq was replaced with a mediocre center back in the early 00's.
I just mostly meant that Kobe was not the player he is now then period. So pretending that just because hes hall of fame bound now doesn't mean he was hall of fame bound then.
Basically at that time Shaq was pushing towards hall of fame status and I believe Kobe rode his coat tails a bit. Has Kobe proven himself since then somewhat but Shaq did it also he went over to a young DWade team and won another also.
What the hell is Phoenix doing???? I don't understand the Shaq deal at all. Shaq was in the last year of his deal, and they traded him for other guys in the last year of their deals?? Whats up with that?? Why did they trade a salary dump for a salary dump? It makes more sense to me to give Shaq away for some young talent, high draft picks, something. If they wanted the cap relief, why wouldn't they just hold onto Shaq and play him for the year and let his salary go off the books, rather than get two guys who won't play, and won't really contribute. This baffles me. Maybe I'm missing something. As for the Cavs, this is great. They needed some size, toughness, a low post option and this should help them out immensely.
I don't know if I like the Carter trade. I feel like Vince is a slightly better Turkoglu, but you give up your best perimeter defender in Lee, and a decent backup in Battie. I don't think this makes the Magic that much better, if at all, but we will see I suppose.
I also don't get why the Suns are trying to move Amare to the Warriors for peanuts as well. They would be getting Biedrins, who has a bad salary, the 7th pick in a weak draft, and another player who is escaping me, but wasn't really anything special.
They traded him to save money. Pure and simple, 100% that's it. They couldn't get anyone else to take Shaq, so they at least got rid of him to save some money. They never should have traded FOR him, and now they have completely admitted it. Wallace is most likely going to retire this year and take a buyout that will probably be half of what his salary for the year is.
They shouldn't trade Amare, though. For anybody. When Steve Nash and Grant Hill retire after next year, they will need to rebuild through Amare.
It's too bad an owner can't be fired, or Robert Sarver would be out on his ass. He has absolutely ruined the Suns.
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You very quickly discount the "matchup" statement...like it's some imaginary element that people just made up to rationalize the Cavs losing. Did you not watch the game of Basketball before this season? The entire playoffs is about matchups. Your man Charles (I'm a fan of Barkely, but mostly for the lulz and not the top-notch sports info) and his TNT team have commented about how adjustments and playing the right people are a huge deal in the playoffs. Maybe even the biggest element given that teams in the playoffs are all supposed to be good teams. In most cases you get to have some good and some bad matchups and how they play out points to quality of coaching. How you adapt to your bad matchups and exploit your good ones often determines the outcome of critical games. In the Magic vs. Cavaliers series, the Magic had a matchup advantage in virtually every position. The only bad matchup they had to deal with was against LeBron. Not only did the Magic have a huge advantage in matchups based purely on the number of matchup advantages they had...but all of their advantages were quite big. Consider that they still have some of the same matchup advantages against the Lakers, but that it hasn't shown through so much. This is because Phil Jackson is a better coach than Mike Brown and also because the matchups are not as staggeringly in favor of the Magic.
Going 7 games against a team that lacks its best player is also not exactly an illusory knock against the Magic. It points out some problems they have...it also gives everyone (including me) the impression that they would not have made it out of round 2 if Boston was healthy.
As for game 4 you're right, it's unlikely the non-Kobe Lakers will shoot 55% from the field. But I could see them shooting 45-50% without too much trouble. I can also see the Magic maintaining a similar 45-50% shooting. Based on the last game, how do you expect game 4 to end if both teams cool off to just "good"? I also don't see Kobe scoring 10 points in the second half...regardless of how tired he is. I don't think they'll keep running the same crap high-screen that's gotten the ball stripped from Kobe 3 times in the closing moments of a game. I do think LA will be a bit smarter in calling timeouts down the stretch (really Pau? You get back the ball laying on the ground and try to pass?!). I also think Dwight might get more than 2 fouls in the first 42 minutes of the game this time. As much as he's due for an "explosive" game, he's equally as due for a game chock-full of foul trouble. He's shown an equal penchant for both, actually he probably leans more in favor of the foul trouble games. Oh...even if he has an explosive game, i don't think it gaurantees the Magic victory. The Lakers have too many options for putting points on the board.
As for the Magic, it's great they got a win, but also sort of disheartening that they played out of their mind and only won by four (or two if you like). I hope they can pull another win, but I'm not counting on it. I hope Dwight Howard can have another big game and the shooters can keep knocking down shots.
Orlando threw absolutely everything they had at the Lakers tonight, and in the end it didn't matter. The refs gave them a million opportunities to stay in the game via free throws, and they missed so many that they should be embarassed.
Also, it's comedy that you don't think that matchups matter. When Golden State beat Dallas a few years ago in Round 1, did you think GS was the better team? No, obviously they weren't. They just matched up really well against Dallas. That's how it goes sometimes in the playoffs.
Honestly, I thought it was over when Orlando shot 62.5% and still only won by 4.
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Trevor Ariza has totally been killing his old team in the 2nd quarter.
EDIT: There it is... halftime. Halfway through, the Magic are 1/9 from beyond the arc, Turkoglu's been horrible, Lakers are playing sound on both ends of the court... barring any shenanigans in the 2nd half, this series is about to end, folks.
Man, it sucked not being able to watch any of these NBA Finals though.
Ugh.
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
On a side note: i said before the series that the true X-Factor was going to be Ariza. The one game in which he didn't play well...the Lakers lose. I get some kind of warm fuzzy feeling for that statement...
Now onto a potentially huge off-season. The shape of the league next year should be very interesting.
But I will give credit where it is due whether the team has a talent at picking players or they just happen to have the great ones plopped in their lap they sure seem to make the most of it. I personally think the Pau Gasol trade was one of the dumbest of the last 3 years when it happened. The Lakers gave up some of their weakest pieces for a very good player it really annoyed me.
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...
Anyone hear the rumors of Shaq going to Cleveland for Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovich? As a Suns fan, I like the trade rumors. I hope fatty goes to Cleveland and performs Los Angelical Blasphemy on the Lakers next season.
Of course.
So does his inexplicable and indefensible decision not to foul when up by 3 in the dying seconds of the game. Seriously, a kids' rec league coach knows you have to foul there. And then Derek Fisher drains a 3 (nice defense on that play, btw) and the series is over.
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Some comments in this thread are ridiculous. Dwight should find a better team? As if getting to the finals means the team is bad? SVG doesn't have the presence of mind to win a championship? What!?
Winning the championship takes a great team and some luck, which the Lakers had. The Magic had a phenomenal year, and pointing fingers is dumb because everyone on the team did a great job.
I agree somewhat but they aren't very deep. Over 82 games they could get very tired and if they sustain an injury to any of their big 3 their chances are shot. But I think that if they make the post season then they can shine somewhat, they should get farther then this year. Does anyone else feel bad for Bowen I really thought he should deserve to stay in San Antonio until he wanted to retire he's done so much for them.
What do you guys think of the Celtics trying to trade Allen and Rondo, stupid or stupid? They have one more shot at title and they shouldn't ruin their chemistry now.
Houston is the only team to take the Lakers to 7 games this season in the playoffs.
Anyways watch out for the Spurs while Bowen is a valuable piece I suspect they will be able to easily compensate with Jefferson.
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This is a silly explanation The Rockets are not better without Ming but they are far from pushovers. They have GREAT defenders and the best teams are built around defense not offense just ask the spurs. Crap the Lakers haven't won a thing since Shaq left until now probably because he brought some "defensive" presence that Kobe lacks.
Shaq is still in my mind a better player then Kobe and his dominance in the 3 back to back champs proves it. He just doesn't get the same level of respect because he doesn't have the level of media hype as Kobe+Lebron.
Kobe would be at 1 ring right now if Shaq was replaced with a mediocre center back in the early 00's.
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Basically at that time Shaq was pushing towards hall of fame status and I believe Kobe rode his coat tails a bit. Has Kobe proven himself since then somewhat but Shaq did it also he went over to a young DWade team and won another also.
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I don't know if I like the Carter trade. I feel like Vince is a slightly better Turkoglu, but you give up your best perimeter defender in Lee, and a decent backup in Battie. I don't think this makes the Magic that much better, if at all, but we will see I suppose.
I also don't get why the Suns are trying to move Amare to the Warriors for peanuts as well. They would be getting Biedrins, who has a bad salary, the 7th pick in a weak draft, and another player who is escaping me, but wasn't really anything special.
They shouldn't trade Amare, though. For anybody. When Steve Nash and Grant Hill retire after next year, they will need to rebuild through Amare.
It's too bad an owner can't be fired, or Robert Sarver would be out on his ass. He has absolutely ruined the Suns.