Trailer 2 just dropped and it looks promising.
This one looks like it could be a pretty good film. DC really needs a hit after the vile mess that BvS turned out to be.
Probably a mess at this point what with the "extensive reshoots" - this movie went from being marketed as "so dark we hired psychologists to stop the actors from going mad" to "goofy action comedy" right around the same time Deadpool rocked the house and BvS took a dump on it's projections. Clearly they're trying to twist it into something it isn't. Never heard of a movie that got reshoots and then turned out okay, which also has me upset for Star Trek Beyond...
Probably a mess at this point what with the "extensive reshoots" - this movie went from being marketed as "so dark we hired psychologists to stop the actors from going mad" to "goofy action comedy" right around the same time Deadpool rocked the house and BvS took a dump on it's projections. Clearly they're trying to twist it into something it isn't. Never heard of a movie that got reshoots and then turned out okay, which also has me upset for Star Trek Beyond...
Ant-man
It can be done. I have my doubts that it will happen but I'll likely see it anyway so long as the final trailer doesn't look like horse crap.
It can be done. I have my doubts that it will happen but I'll likely see it anyway so long as the final trailer doesn't look like horse crap.
Ant-Man was a completely different situation as it didn't have 11th hour reshoots that drastically changed the tone of the movie. They lost Edgar Wright just months before the movie was supposed to shoot and replaced him with Peyton Reed. Even with a different director, they still kept true to Wright's vision of Ant-Man being a heist movie.
Another thing going for Ant-Man is that it only had a $130 million budget. It didn't gross a whole lot at the box office because it didn't have to be a smash hit. Suicide Squad's budget is going to be almost double that, and then these reshoots are going to add tens of millions more on top of that. There is going to be an enormous amount of pressure for Suicide Squad to be successful both financially and critically.
It can be done. I have my doubts that it will happen but I'll likely see it anyway so long as the final trailer doesn't look like horse crap.
Ant-Man was a completely different situation as it didn't have 11th hour reshoots that drastically changed the tone of the movie. They lost Edgar Wright just months before the movie was supposed to shoot and replaced him with Peyton Reed. Even with a different director, they still kept true to Wright's vision of Ant-Man being a heist movie.
Another thing going for Ant-Man is that it only had a $130 million budget. It didn't gross a whole lot at the box office because it didn't have to be a smash hit. Suicide Squad's budget is going to be almost double that, and then these reshoots are going to add tens of millions more on top of that. There is going to be an enormous amount of pressure for Suicide Squad to be successful both financially and critically.
We shall see. It has a good chance of being the first good DC film since The dark knight and I would like it to do well. DC has just been such a mess lately and its saddening since they have so much good source material. If its better than MoS then I will be please even if that isn't a high bar to set. At this point im just hoping it isn't a structural mess like both synder superman films.
Don't know if I'd say "a good chance" given all of the problems so far, but it boils down to personal taste - I keep my expectations fairly muted on everything because nothing disappoints quite like waiting all year for a lemon
We shall see. It has a good chance of being the first good DC film since The dark knight and I would like it to do well. DC has just been such a mess lately and its saddening since they have so much good source material. If its better than MoS then I will be please even if that isn't a high bar to set. At this point im just hoping it isn't a structural mess like both synder superman films.
I want Suicide Squad to succeed, but it's so hard for me to trust WB/DC. It really shows the difference between the two studios. With Marvel's cinematic universe, the critics think, "Is this next film going to be the first disappointment for Marvel?" while with DC's cinematic universe it's, "Are they finally going to get it right?" The expectations are wildly different.
The timing of the reshoots as VaultTechy noted is a bit of a red flag. The reshoots were announced like a week after BvS reviews started coming in and Deadpool had long since cleaned up the box office. It feels like they're panicking. They know they can't afford a third straight disappointment.
To be fair, it's not like Marvel is pumping out masterpieces either. Iron Man 2 and 3 didn't even come close to the first film, and felt very clunky and bloated. Thor 2 suffered a similar fate. Heck, even Avengers: Age of Ultron wasn't anything special. The majority of recent Marvel movies have been fairly middle of the road, not bad enough to truly be considered "bad" films, but not nearly good enough to deserve any sort of heaping praise. There are exceptions however, like Guardians of the Galaxy, The Winter Soldier, and Civil War.
In comparison to DC's most recent outings however, Marvel films look like Palme d'Or winners. Never have I seen a film so poorly paced as BvS.
To stay on topic, Suicide Squad looks like it's going to sit somewhere in between. I don't think it's going to be as bad as BvS, but I don't think it'll be as good as something like the first Iron Man for example. The reshoots do seem alarming, and should be taken as an indicator of the quality of this film. It'll probably be mediocre, which is a shame.
To be fair, it's not like Marvel is pumping out masterpieces either. Iron Man 2 and 3 didn't even come close to the first film, and felt very clunky and bloated. Thor 2 suffered a similar fate. Heck, even Avengers: Age of Ultron wasn't anything special. The majority of recent Marvel movies have been fairly middle of the road, not bad enough to truly be considered "bad" films, but not nearly good enough to deserve any sort of heaping praise. There are exceptions however, like Guardians of the Galaxy, The Winter Soldier, and Civil War.
The MCU has yet to put out a flop though. Every film they have made so far has been at least good enough. There is no MoS or Dark knight rises for the MCU the worst you can say is Incredible Hulk which still scored positive reviews. Meanwhile DC has The dark Knight and nothing else to count as a true success, which is a terrible shame. From what we have seen of SS so far it looks like DC has finally realized what it forgot about movies: that it is okay to have fun.
Man of Steel did alright, although it wasn't a huge success. Dark knight rises got good reviews, and earned over a billion in world-wide gross. Not sure you could call it a flop. Really, all three of the Nolan Batman movies were solid and could easily hang there with the Marvel movies.
That said, I'm excited to see what Ayer can do with Squad. Hopefully it loses the grimdark problem of MoS/BvS, and isn't trying to set up 10 different movies in a single film.
Maybe it's because I came in expecting total crap, but I didn't think this was as bad as everyone's been saying. I came out of this movie not regretting my ticket purchase, which is a damn sight more than I could say for Iron Man 3 or Star Trek: Into Darkness.
Granted, this is almost entirely due to Will Smith, Margot Robbie, and Viola Davis, and not because of the script or the direction.
I am far from a movie critic when it comes to my opinions about movies. Honestly I enjoyed the movie plenty well enough though. Certain characters/actors hit it out of the park and others were just so-so, but that's to be expected to some degree. It wasn't as funny as the trailers would suggest that it might be. I've watched it twice thus far (once on opening night by myself, once with a friend, and I enjoyed it well enough both times.
The critics reasons for bashing on it aren't unreasonable though, with that all said. The flow isn't the greatest but it has plenty of entertaining enough moments to make it worthwhile to see, so long as you realize its not any sort of cinematic masterpiece or anything of that sort.
On the financial front for the movie, it shattered the old August opening weekend record (beating out Guardians of the Galaxy), though I have a feeling it may taper off quickly which certainly isn't helping DC in the long term, as it seems to be a bit of a trend for them at the moment with their current superhero movie universe lineup. I guess time will tell there though.
I'm not going to waste my money on this. I made that decision the second I heard about the reshoots. I can't remember hearing of a movie that basically got "remade" after it had already been shot, which was not a mess. The fact that they still released it shows how desperate their situation was. So much money and reputation was sunk into this film and it is going to follow BvS and MoS into the tank. It made good money the first week released but watch how fast it drops to nothing. From what I saw of the Justice League trailer I predict the same thing will happen to that movie too. The Wonder Woman trailer on the other hand looked promising. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.
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I'm not going to waste my money on this. I made that decision the second I heard about the reshoots. I can't remember hearing of a movie that basically got "remade" after it had already been shot, which was not a mess.
It can be done. Top gun is the best example. They did all the shooting and realized there was no plot to the movie so they brought the actors back in to a sound booth and re-recorded all the dialogue from the flying shots to force a plot. Then boom one of the best films of the decade to a lot of people. I haven't seen suicide squad yet but I still kinda want to. To write a movie off for something as trivial as it getting reshoots seems a bit unfair. I say give it a chance then embrace your full right to smash talk it if it is bad.
I'm not going to waste my money on this. I made that decision the second I heard about the reshoots. I can't remember hearing of a movie that basically got "remade" after it had already been shot, which was not a mess.
It can be done. Top gun is the best example. They did all the shooting and realized there was no plot to the movie so they brought the actors back in to a sound booth and re-recorded all the dialogue from the flying shots to force a plot. Then boom one of the best films of the decade to a lot of people. I haven't seen suicide squad yet but I still kinda want to. To write a movie off for something as trivial as it getting reshoots seems a bit unfair. I say give it a chance then embrace your full right to smash talk it if it is bad.
My post is misleading, my reasons for writing this movie off go beyond the fact it was reshot. I did not explain that which is my mistake. The reshooting is a big reason but not anywhere close to the entire reason I wrote off the film. It is unfortunate that it appears this film is a dud though. I really wanted it to be good. Joker and Harley Quinn are two of my absolute favorite DC characters, I was pulling for them. For some reason DC does not understand the formula Marvel is using with it's movies and they are getting their rears handed to them in the competition for comic movie dollars.
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I know what you mean. A lot of people wanted this to be good. But DC is apparently incapable of making a good super hero film. I will still likely catch this film at some point but after the reviews it just wasn't a high priority.
I know what you mean. A lot of people wanted this to be good. But DC is apparently incapable of making a good super hero film. I will still likely catch this film at some point but after the reviews it just wasn't a high priority.
It is mind boggling. Pick a character everyone knows and likes, Batman, Wonder Woman, The flash, NOT Superman!, put them in a classic story that all the fans know, don't cram 3 story lines together. One or maybe two but with the classic story being the main thrust of the movie, add a little wry humor and good acting jobs, stir not shaken and presto!, you have a billion plus dollar movie. It is so simple. The Dark Knight movies did this. Man of Steel did also but lacked the humor and it was Superman. That's why it did not have legs to sustain the earning pace as long as it should have. It's also why Batman vs Superman was a dud.
I started to write that I did not think that DC characters had the same appeal as Marvel characters but as I started to type that I realized I was wrong. That is not true. There are just as many great DC characters as Marvel. They just don't have the same level of competence when it comes to making movies.
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I started to write that I did not think that DC characters had the same appeal as Marvel characters but as I started to type that I realized I was wrong. That is not true. There are just as many great DC characters as Marvel. They just don't have the same level of competence when it comes to making movies.
Yeah, they've done just fine in cartoons and live action TV. And now that Superman is coming to Supergirl as an on-screen character, the goofy and low-budget CW shows may come to be the "canonical" DC universe for a lot of fans. (Unless he sucks too. Won't know until the new season starts.)
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If there's one word to describe this movie, it's sloppy.
The script was written in just 6 weeks and boy did it show. Editing and pacing were very bad, likely just as bad as in Batman v Superman, villain was very forgettable and lame, and I wasn't digging Leto's performance as the Joker. He felt too much of a try-hard in the role.
Suicide Squad is probably going to pull a Batman v Superman where it has a huge opening weekend but the bad reviews and bad word of mouth cause it to collapse at the box office. If that happens, DC is in huge trouble. I actually think they will pull the plug on their whole cinematic universe if the Justice League movie doesn't break $1 billion.
If there's one word to describe this movie, it's sloppy.
The script was written in just 6 weeks and boy did it show. Editing and pacing were very bad, likely just as bad as in Batman v Superman, villain was very forgettable and lame, and I wasn't digging Leto's performance as the Joker. He felt too much of a try-hard in the role.
Suicide Squad is probably going to pull a Batman v Superman where it has a huge opening weekend but the bad reviews and bad word of mouth cause it to collapse at the box office. If that happens, DC is in huge trouble. I actually think they will pull the plug on their whole cinematic universe if the Justice League movie doesn't break $1 billion.
The trailer I saw had the same feel as the Suicide Squad clips I saw. Just this side of campy and amateurish. If they wrote the Suicide Squad script in 6 weeks that explains a lot. It also seems to be what they did with Justice League. They are in such a panic to play catch up with Marvel that they are half ass'ing the whole process. Rather then this childish, " We have a Cinematic Universe Too, look at us" approach They need to build off the Dark Knight example with quality stories about their fan favorite characters. I'm a Marvel Guy and have been since before many of you were born, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing DC characters but there has always seemed to me that DC characters lack a certain depth of connection with the public and with casual fans. Other then Batman and Superman other DC characters don't seem to be readily recognized by the public or liked. The Green "Arrow" and The Flash both have had boosts because of their TV shows and Wonder Woman is a Female Icon that transcends the genre but overall other DC characters don't resonate with people the way The Hulk, Spiderman, Ironman, The Fantastic Four, The X-men, Captain America, ..... do.
In fact, I think that Batman villains resonate with better recognition then most DC heroes do. The two best known and most anticipated charaters in the Suicide Squad movie are far and away Harley Quinn and Joker. Pretty much all the others are characters people hardly recognize or care about. I did not hear anyone posting that they could not wait to see Captain Boomerang, Rick Flagg, El Diablo or Enchantress. The Batman Villians, Joker, Harley Quinn and Killer Croc were the only characters that generated any interest at all, with the possible exception of Deadshot. Deadshot benefitted from being a very cool character and having the biggest star in the film play him.
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If there's one word to describe this movie, it's sloppy.
The script was written in just 6 weeks and boy did it show. Editing and pacing were very bad, likely just as bad as in Batman v Superman, villain was very forgettable and lame, and I wasn't digging Leto's performance as the Joker. He felt too much of a try-hard in the role.
Suicide Squad is probably going to pull a Batman v Superman where it has a huge opening weekend but the bad reviews and bad word of mouth cause it to collapse at the box office. If that happens, DC is in huge trouble. I actually think they will pull the plug on their whole cinematic universe if the Justice League movie doesn't break $1 billion.
The trailer I saw had the same feel as the Suicide Squad clips I saw. Just this side of campy and amateurish. If they wrote the Suicide Squad script in 6 weeks that explains a lot. It also seems to be what they did with Justice League. They are in such a panic to play catch up with Marvel that they are half ass'ing the whole process. Rather then this childish, " We have a Cinematic Universe Too, look at us" approach They need to build off the Dark Knight example with quality stories about their fan favorite characters. I'm a Marvel Guy and have been since before many of you were born, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing DC characters but there has always seemed to me that DC characters lack a certain depth of connection with the public and with casual fans. Other then Batman and Superman other DC characters don't seem to be readily recognized by the public or liked. The Green "Arrow" and The Flash both have had boosts because of their TV shows and Wonder Woman is a Female Icon that transcends the genre but overall other DC characters don't resonate with people the way The Hulk, Spiderman, Ironman, The Fantastic Four, The X-men, Captain America, ..... do.
In fact, I think that Batman villains resonate with better recognition then most DC heroes do. The two best known and most anticipated charaters in the Suicide Squad movie are far and away Harley Quinn and Joker. Pretty much all the others are characters people hardly recognize or care about. I did not hear anyone posting that they could not wait to see Captain Boomerang, Rick Flagg, El Diablo or Enchantress. The Batman Villians, Joker, Harley Quinn and Killer Croc were the only characters that generated any interest at all, with the possible exception of Deadshot. Deadshot benefitted from being a very cool character and having the biggest star in the film play him.
One of things I found fascinating is that half the villians they chose to use were not just obscure, they were *radically* obscure. We've all heard of the Joker. We've mostly heard of Harley. I've played enough of Arkham games to know who deadshot is.
But when you're choosing villians who are too obscure for the DC deckbuilding game to have used them - and they've used hundreds of DC villians by now - you need to dig up, stupid. I mean who or what the hell is Rick Flagg? Why do I care about Enchantress??
The trailer I saw had the same feel as the Suicide Squad clips I saw. Just this side of campy and amateurish. If they wrote the Suicide Squad script in 6 weeks that explains a lot. It also seems to be what they did with Justice League. They are in such a panic to play catch up with Marvel that they are half ass'ing the whole process. Rather then this childish, " We have a Cinematic Universe Too, look at us" approach They need to build off the Dark Knight example with quality stories about their fan favorite characters.
As you said, DC is in catch-up mode right now. Suicide Squad was greenlit back in October 2014, literally right after Guardians of the Galaxy was a huge success. DC never gave it time to materialize. Everything they've done so far has been trying to copy Marvel's success without doing all the heavy legwork needed to make a cinematic universe work.
Other then Batman and Superman other DC characters don't seem to be readily recognized by the public or liked. The Green "Arrow" and The Flash both have had boosts because of their TV shows and Wonder Woman is a Female Icon that transcends the genre but overall other DC characters don't resonate with people the way The Hulk, Spiderman, Ironman, The Fantastic Four, The X-men, Captain America, ..... do.
That's not intrinsic to the characters, though. Pre-MCU, the DC characters had a huge recognition advantage over Marvel's. Of Marvel's three most recognizable characters -- Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the Hulk -- Marvel Studios didn't have access to two, and the third was so difficult to make a good movie about that they stopped trying. No, Marvel Studios has been wildly successful in spite of their characters' recognition (or lack thereof), not because of it. Iron Man in particular resonates with people for the sole reason that they cast a great actor in a great movie. General pop culture didn't give a rip about Tony Stark before 2008. Given the right talent, DC-Warner could have done that with the Question or Mister Terrific or freaking Animal Man, to say nothing of what they could have done with their actual A-listers. It's been all about the level of quality and creative vision the two studios are putting into their films. This was DC's fight to lose, and boy did they lose it.
This one looks like it could be a pretty good film. DC really needs a hit after the vile mess that BvS turned out to be.
It can be done. I have my doubts that it will happen but I'll likely see it anyway so long as the final trailer doesn't look like horse crap.
Ant-Man was a completely different situation as it didn't have 11th hour reshoots that drastically changed the tone of the movie. They lost Edgar Wright just months before the movie was supposed to shoot and replaced him with Peyton Reed. Even with a different director, they still kept true to Wright's vision of Ant-Man being a heist movie.
Another thing going for Ant-Man is that it only had a $130 million budget. It didn't gross a whole lot at the box office because it didn't have to be a smash hit. Suicide Squad's budget is going to be almost double that, and then these reshoots are going to add tens of millions more on top of that. There is going to be an enormous amount of pressure for Suicide Squad to be successful both financially and critically.
I want Suicide Squad to succeed, but it's so hard for me to trust WB/DC. It really shows the difference between the two studios. With Marvel's cinematic universe, the critics think, "Is this next film going to be the first disappointment for Marvel?" while with DC's cinematic universe it's, "Are they finally going to get it right?" The expectations are wildly different.
The timing of the reshoots as VaultTechy noted is a bit of a red flag. The reshoots were announced like a week after BvS reviews started coming in and Deadpool had long since cleaned up the box office. It feels like they're panicking. They know they can't afford a third straight disappointment.
In comparison to DC's most recent outings however, Marvel films look like Palme d'Or winners. Never have I seen a film so poorly paced as BvS.
To stay on topic, Suicide Squad looks like it's going to sit somewhere in between. I don't think it's going to be as bad as BvS, but I don't think it'll be as good as something like the first Iron Man for example. The reshoots do seem alarming, and should be taken as an indicator of the quality of this film. It'll probably be mediocre, which is a shame.
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That said, I'm excited to see what Ayer can do with Squad. Hopefully it loses the grimdark problem of MoS/BvS, and isn't trying to set up 10 different movies in a single film.
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Granted, this is almost entirely due to Will Smith, Margot Robbie, and Viola Davis, and not because of the script or the direction.
The critics reasons for bashing on it aren't unreasonable though, with that all said. The flow isn't the greatest but it has plenty of entertaining enough moments to make it worthwhile to see, so long as you realize its not any sort of cinematic masterpiece or anything of that sort.
On the financial front for the movie, it shattered the old August opening weekend record (beating out Guardians of the Galaxy), though I have a feeling it may taper off quickly which certainly isn't helping DC in the long term, as it seems to be a bit of a trend for them at the moment with their current superhero movie universe lineup. I guess time will tell there though.
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I started to write that I did not think that DC characters had the same appeal as Marvel characters but as I started to type that I realized I was wrong. That is not true. There are just as many great DC characters as Marvel. They just don't have the same level of competence when it comes to making movies.
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The script was written in just 6 weeks and boy did it show. Editing and pacing were very bad, likely just as bad as in Batman v Superman, villain was very forgettable and lame, and I wasn't digging Leto's performance as the Joker. He felt too much of a try-hard in the role.
Suicide Squad is probably going to pull a Batman v Superman where it has a huge opening weekend but the bad reviews and bad word of mouth cause it to collapse at the box office. If that happens, DC is in huge trouble. I actually think they will pull the plug on their whole cinematic universe if the Justice League movie doesn't break $1 billion.
The trailer I saw had the same feel as the Suicide Squad clips I saw. Just this side of campy and amateurish. If they wrote the Suicide Squad script in 6 weeks that explains a lot. It also seems to be what they did with Justice League. They are in such a panic to play catch up with Marvel that they are half ass'ing the whole process. Rather then this childish, " We have a Cinematic Universe Too, look at us" approach They need to build off the Dark Knight example with quality stories about their fan favorite characters. I'm a Marvel Guy and have been since before many of you were born, I don't want to sound like I'm bashing DC characters but there has always seemed to me that DC characters lack a certain depth of connection with the public and with casual fans. Other then Batman and Superman other DC characters don't seem to be readily recognized by the public or liked. The Green "Arrow" and The Flash both have had boosts because of their TV shows and Wonder Woman is a Female Icon that transcends the genre but overall other DC characters don't resonate with people the way The Hulk, Spiderman, Ironman, The Fantastic Four, The X-men, Captain America, ..... do.
In fact, I think that Batman villains resonate with better recognition then most DC heroes do. The two best known and most anticipated charaters in the Suicide Squad movie are far and away Harley Quinn and Joker. Pretty much all the others are characters people hardly recognize or care about. I did not hear anyone posting that they could not wait to see Captain Boomerang, Rick Flagg, El Diablo or Enchantress. The Batman Villians, Joker, Harley Quinn and Killer Croc were the only characters that generated any interest at all, with the possible exception of Deadshot. Deadshot benefitted from being a very cool character and having the biggest star in the film play him.
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One of things I found fascinating is that half the villians they chose to use were not just obscure, they were *radically* obscure. We've all heard of the Joker. We've mostly heard of Harley. I've played enough of Arkham games to know who deadshot is.
But when you're choosing villians who are too obscure for the DC deckbuilding game to have used them - and they've used hundreds of DC villians by now - you need to dig up, stupid. I mean who or what the hell is Rick Flagg? Why do I care about Enchantress??
Suicide Squad had a lot of production troubles. This article here goes into more detail about it: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/suicide-squads-secret-drama-rushed-916693
As you said, DC is in catch-up mode right now. Suicide Squad was greenlit back in October 2014, literally right after Guardians of the Galaxy was a huge success. DC never gave it time to materialize. Everything they've done so far has been trying to copy Marvel's success without doing all the heavy legwork needed to make a cinematic universe work.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.