Buffing ADCs doesn't buff assassins as much as it buffs mages that synergize with ADCs, that's my reasoning.
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How do you figure? Without the MS slow, I would assume bruisers w/o gap closers now have no real way of being able to stick to an adc. The omen nerf I don't think really affects assassins directly, aside from making adcs stronger, which in turn makes assassins stronger.
Bruisers usually typically build omen, whether they have a gap closer or not if they need armor. The difference is a bruiser like Jax can still stick to a target because of his Q, where as Trundle might have a bit of an issue, once out of frozen domain.
Oh, so you meant relative to bruisers that are more reliant on randuins? Yea that's true, but the fact is that even champs like jax build randuin's a lot (especially against strong adcs) and it's a nerf to them relative to other roles.
For example, like you said, Jax is directly affected by randuin's nerfs and LeBlanc really isn't. Trundle is affected maybe even more than jax (I'm not positive of this but we'll say it's true). This favors Jax over trundle, but this favors LB over both of them. And it doesn't favor LB as much as it favors ADCs and mages that focus largely on supporting them, like say the live iteration of Nidalee.
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I guess I wouldn't say LB is favored over Jax/Trundle, since they all fit different roles. I wouldn't even say Jax is affected as he can go omen, but his core of T-Force/BotrK/Warmogs is for the most part still in tact (although BotrK still kind of hurts, it only delays his late game a touch longer).
LB is buffed however, as it seems tanks in general got a whole lot weaker (think Mundo/Shyv/ect). So in a meta full of glass, LB will shine through, assuming there is no instant stun out there (off the top of my head, the only commonly played char with an insta root/stun is Ryze, and maybe Leona to a lesser extent).
That said, with ad being better, bruiser may switch to buy an MR item first, before the usual rush omen/sunfire cape plan. Hell, even adc top lane might be a think. FLY QUINN, FLYYYYY.
I don't really want LB's damage toned down, but more altered to early game. This would make it such that her early game pressure is still there, but that her late game is not as recognizable unless she snowballs in the early game. With the silence gone, it's not like she has Lee Sin level of utility, so it might not be too bad.
I don't really want LB's damage toned down, but more altered to early game. This would make it such that her early game pressure is still there, but that her late game is not as recognizable unless she snowballs in the early game. With the silence gone, it's not like she has Lee Sin level of utility, so it might not be too bad.
LB's late game is already pretty bad, the last thing she needs is that changed and her early game buffed. If you hit 2 on her first, you can chunk your opponent with just Q-W-Ignite.
I don't really want LB's damage toned down, but more altered to early game. This would make it such that her early game pressure is still there, but that her late game is not as recognizable unless she snowballs in the early game. With the silence gone, it's not like she has Lee Sin level of utility, so it might not be too bad.
Her early game damage is pretty ridiculous though. I can almost half HP most midlane casters with Q->W at level 2.
I mean, a nerf is appropriate here, right? Not sure why we ought to have the expectations that nerfs always come with compensation.
EDIT: As for Twitch, I'm a little biased here (I'm 13-1 on him in ranked play, I just played one with GLJ and a couple diamond tier players last night in normals and went 12-1 despite playing with heavy lag, steady 300 ms ping), but I'd be very surprised if this goes far enough. Twitch isn't a little better than the rest of the ADC roster (except maybe Lucian), Twitch is a LOT better, and he can be hit pretty hard before he falls into 3rd place among adcs imo. He's also both a great BoRK user and a great IE user (BoRK -> IE being the maximal 2-item dps build, though it gets awkward after that) and both of those are buffed from an ADC perspective.
Not that I oppose them taking an incremental approach to nerfs, just I think they'll have to hit him again a couple patches later.
Re: Draven: I'm pretty sure this is a nerf. He can't position safely; the Randuin's nerf doesn't affect him very much. He's heavily AD ratio-driven; BT is much worse for that. Crit probably affects the lowest percentage of his damage among all ADCs except Ezreal, and AD probably helps him the most among all ADCs (with a 1.85 ratio on his basic attacks !!!). He'll probably still be good, but he's probably taking the biggest hit among ADCs not being explicitly nerfed.
Caitlyn, Ashe, Tristana look like the big winners here. Anyone whose best move early is rushing IE -> PD -> LW loves these changes. Double or triple Dorans into IE is gonna be great.
I don't really want LB's damage toned down, but more altered to early game. This would make it such that her early game pressure is still there, but that her late game is not as recognizable unless she snowballs in the early game. With the silence gone, it's not like she has Lee Sin level of utility, so it might not be too bad.
That's basically how she used to be, and riot didn't like it.
LB's late game is already pretty bad, the last thing she needs is that changed and her early game buffed. If you hit 2 on her first, you can chunk your opponent with just Q-W-Ignite.
It's really not that bad now, she can easily assassinate squishies even with a suboptimal spell rotation, assuming there's no bveil passive or really quickly used heals and shields. There are a lot of cases of games ended off the back of a LB doing this.
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A lot of that is because of how fed she usually is, though. Her late game is entirely dependent on being mega fed. It's just also really easy to get mega fed right now.
...Yes, did I ever say otherwise? She as a character is a capable lategame assassin against even and full builds. Her lategame is not bad and is not dependent on snowballing. That's all.
She does, however, have other benefits that put her over other assassins right now. Namely better bullying in lane than all of them, a more robust lane than some (fizz especially) and more usefulness outside of 100-0ing people than most (especially zed).
Hrm. I'm not sure I've followed the thread of the conversation, then.
I'm not saying she doesn't do solid damage without snowballing, I'm saying it's not particularly remarkable (for her class), and that the problematic part of her late game is how easy it is to get there with a bunch of kills, assuming you know how to play her.
Hence why the adjustment of damage might not be too bad. In the video, Link just bursted down Voy without taking real damage. If the scaling is cut down a bit, but the base damage increased, this might help her into making her more early-game reliant.
Link loses 70% in that video bursting Voyboy... If not for the silence, there'd be a real chance Link would die before Voyboy (Syndra's burst IS comparable to Leblancs, Syndra's just silenced here).
Link loses 70% in that video bursting Voyboy... If not for the silence, there'd be a real chance Link would die before Voyboy (Syndra's burst IS comparable to Leblancs, Syndra's just silenced here).
Leblanc isn't actually too bad, she's only ridiculous when she snowballs (aka Faker's LB against SGB). Same could be said for other assassins though. If you note the video, Link actually had to sequence his spells and position it just right to get the burst and live. The other team also misposition and didn't prepare for the assassination because they underestimated link's skill.
Actually, in that case Voy did manage to get his ult off after the silence. Honestly syndra's burst is pretty *****ty if you aren't prepared properly to unleash it, with a lot of orbs already out and a W or E lined up. But yea, Voy could've at least flashed or something earlier if he hadn't been silenced.
Honestly though, I feel it's a nerf to the E->Q->burst combo more than anything else. The silence+root going off at the same was pretty strong and it's going to be affected a lot more than most of her combos.
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rip zed, but thanks riot for the indirect lissandra buffs through morellonomicon/forbidden idol.
I fear ADCs were overbuffed considering that riot is mostly doing this to change the way the role works, and did so essentially without nerfs. I mean if you look at the challenger brackets... ADCs are already influential enough (it turns out that being the guy that most affects sieging is impactful huh who would've thunk) and I don't see that getting worse.
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Finally got my hands on Galio. I swear, nobody votes for him where I live (as in, during my few months' time playing LoL, I seriously have never SEEN him in the free roster AT ALL, and heck, as far as my personal playing history is concerned, I am the FIRST player who play him)...
Kind of an odd mage caster kind of guy with short range ulti, so yeah, his ulti is admittedly rather hard to use. That, and mass Taunt generally asks you to build Armor (Rammus, much?), but this guy instead has passive that benefits from Magic Resist, not to mention the Ulti has damage cap..., which is silly. But hey, he's caster, and I love casters
And speaking of my first sentence, in where you play, which characters rarely see the light of day? Like I said, before I bought him, I've never seen Galio like, ever.
For example, like you said, Jax is directly affected by randuin's nerfs and LeBlanc really isn't. Trundle is affected maybe even more than jax (I'm not positive of this but we'll say it's true). This favors Jax over trundle, but this favors LB over both of them. And it doesn't favor LB as much as it favors ADCs and mages that focus largely on supporting them, like say the live iteration of Nidalee.
I guess I wouldn't say LB is favored over Jax/Trundle, since they all fit different roles. I wouldn't even say Jax is affected as he can go omen, but his core of T-Force/BotrK/Warmogs is for the most part still in tact (although BotrK still kind of hurts, it only delays his late game a touch longer).
LB is buffed however, as it seems tanks in general got a whole lot weaker (think Mundo/Shyv/ect). So in a meta full of glass, LB will shine through, assuming there is no instant stun out there (off the top of my head, the only commonly played char with an insta root/stun is Ryze, and maybe Leona to a lesser extent).
That said, with ad being better, bruiser may switch to buy an MR item first, before the usual rush omen/sunfire cape plan. Hell, even adc top lane might be a think. FLY QUINN, FLYYYYY.
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LB's late game is already pretty bad, the last thing she needs is that changed and her early game buffed. If you hit 2 on her first, you can chunk your opponent with just Q-W-Ignite.
Her early game damage is pretty ridiculous though. I can almost half HP most midlane casters with Q->W at level 2.
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EDIT: As for Twitch, I'm a little biased here (I'm 13-1 on him in ranked play, I just played one with GLJ and a couple diamond tier players last night in normals and went 12-1 despite playing with heavy lag, steady 300 ms ping), but I'd be very surprised if this goes far enough. Twitch isn't a little better than the rest of the ADC roster (except maybe Lucian), Twitch is a LOT better, and he can be hit pretty hard before he falls into 3rd place among adcs imo. He's also both a great BoRK user and a great IE user (BoRK -> IE being the maximal 2-item dps build, though it gets awkward after that) and both of those are buffed from an ADC perspective.
Not that I oppose them taking an incremental approach to nerfs, just I think they'll have to hit him again a couple patches later.
Re: Draven: I'm pretty sure this is a nerf. He can't position safely; the Randuin's nerf doesn't affect him very much. He's heavily AD ratio-driven; BT is much worse for that. Crit probably affects the lowest percentage of his damage among all ADCs except Ezreal, and AD probably helps him the most among all ADCs (with a 1.85 ratio on his basic attacks !!!). He'll probably still be good, but he's probably taking the biggest hit among ADCs not being explicitly nerfed.
Caitlyn, Ashe, Tristana look like the big winners here. Anyone whose best move early is rushing IE -> PD -> LW loves these changes. Double or triple Dorans into IE is gonna be great.
She does, however, have other benefits that put her over other assassins right now. Namely better bullying in lane than all of them, a more robust lane than some (fizz especially) and more usefulness outside of 100-0ing people than most (especially zed).
I'm not saying she doesn't do solid damage without snowballing, I'm saying it's not particularly remarkable (for her class), and that the problematic part of her late game is how easy it is to get there with a bunch of kills, assuming you know how to play her.
Hence why the adjustment of damage might not be too bad. In the video, Link just bursted down Voy without taking real damage. If the scaling is cut down a bit, but the base damage increased, this might help her into making her more early-game reliant.
Thanks Argentleman;)
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Leblanc isn't actually too bad, she's only ridiculous when she snowballs (aka Faker's LB against SGB). Same could be said for other assassins though. If you note the video, Link actually had to sequence his spells and position it just right to get the burst and live. The other team also misposition and didn't prepare for the assassination because they underestimated link's skill.
Honestly though, I feel it's a nerf to the E->Q->burst combo more than anything else. The silence+root going off at the same was pretty strong and it's going to be affected a lot more than most of her combos.
I fear ADCs were overbuffed considering that riot is mostly doing this to change the way the role works, and did so essentially without nerfs. I mean if you look at the challenger brackets... ADCs are already influential enough (it turns out that being the guy that most affects sieging is impactful huh who would've thunk) and I don't see that getting worse.
Kind of an odd mage caster kind of guy with short range ulti, so yeah, his ulti is admittedly rather hard to use. That, and mass Taunt generally asks you to build Armor (Rammus, much?), but this guy instead has passive that benefits from Magic Resist, not to mention the Ulti has damage cap..., which is silly. But hey, he's caster, and I love casters
And speaking of my first sentence, in where you play, which characters rarely see the light of day? Like I said, before I bought him, I've never seen Galio like, ever.