The climb is real. From Gold V to Plat V in a month.
Wow, nice.
I'm currently Gold V, I'm not sure if I'm good enough to be a plat player just yet. I've only been playing since last year October, and still need to expand my champ pool and stuff.
The climb is real. From Gold V to Plat V in a month.
Wow, nice.
I'm currently Gold V, I'm not sure if I'm good enough to be a plat player just yet. I've only been playing since last year October, and still need to expand my champ pool and stuff.
I'm in promos for Gold IV though!
I don't think good enough for Plat is a thing. As far as I can tell, the major difference between plat and gold isn't mechanics or champion pool, it's game sense and realizing what your win conditions are. If you are allowed to take the reins and know what you're talking about, you can win games through very simple coordination and objective pressure. Mechanical skill is secondary to game sense at this level. I wish you luck in your adventures. You're definitely better than I was when I had been playing for 2/3 of a year. No one really knew how to play back then though. ^^
You can do it, as long as you keep learning nothing stops you from climbing. Everything is merely temporary, persistence definitely wins out.
Is there a reason why there is no hybrid penetration item ? Would that make Akali, Jax and Kayle super op ?
Because itemizing for dual penetration actually kind of sucks. Outside of the runes, which are borderline OP (actually not borderline, pretty much always better than magic pen), the amount of gold value needed to make dual penetration actually worth bringing would make it so good that there wouldn't be much of a reason to take single penetration.
And when dual penetration isn't provided in hideously overpowering numbers, it's just a trap item. Hybrid champions don't take single penetration anyways because it's pretty much impossible to itemize against their damage outside of just buying health. It's better for them to just take raw damage and use their two damage sources to blast through whichever defense is weaker.
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Is there a reason why there is no hybrid penetration item ? Would that make Akali, Jax and Kayle super op ?
Hybrid champions don't take single penetration anyways because it's pretty much impossible to itemize against their damage outside of just buying health. It's better for them to just take raw damage and use their two damage sources to blast through whichever defense is weaker.
I can see that argument for % penetration, but isn't there essentially no difference in that situation between building hybrid damage and hybrid flat pen?
Part 2 of the answer is Riot has given up on making hybrid items, and all of the penetration items in the game (minus Liandry's) are holdovers from a looong time ago. I could've seen riot making a hybrid penetration item with very little else on it way back then, but they just didn't.
Liandry's Torment is less than 2 years old - definitely within the modern era of LoL (preseason S3).
% Penetration is functionally just a multiplier on the damage you deal. Flat penetration is a specifically anti-squishy stat. I could see a hybrid pen item *if* they were going forward with more robust hybrid itemization. Are they? Any such item would instantly be a required buy on hybrid damage champs, and then they'd have to retune the hybrid damage champs around it (they would have to nerf Jax and Kayle 100%, and if the hybrid damage itemization was strong enough that you'd care about it, they'd probably have to nerf Akali as well).
I disagree with balancing champions around items, and I think Riot does as well. Aside from Yasuo, pretty much all other balance changes have shifted to power down the items, not the champions. They recently reset that precedent heavily with the Lich Bane changes. It was nerfed heavily thanks to the power of mid Lulu, but it was also a very powerful item in general.
Sort of, but understand what I'm saying. If a hybrid pen item was added that Akali actually wanted, that would be a functional buff for her (otherwise she wouldn't care about the item, and if Akali is not caring about this hypothetical item, it's probably not worth bothering to create), same for Jax and Kayle. And if they're not comfortable buffing those champs, they only have two options: nerf the item until it ISN'T a buff for them, or nerf the champions directly.
If they nerf the item until it isn't a buff for those champs, then they've literally added an item whose best users don't really care about it. Why add that item?
(Incidentally I don't think it's true that they won't nerf champions to preserve items - actually, they tend to hit *both* at the same time, e.g. mid Lulu and Lichbane at the same time, or Jayce and Tear of the Goddess, or Blue Ezreal and Iceborn Gauntlet, or a hundred other examples)
Flat penetration is a specifically anti-squishy stat.
In the same way to how damage is an anti-squishy stat, although pen is more drastically affected by mitigation yea. I mean in theory a hybrid pen item would be balanced in a way where it gives more pen each than it would if it were single pen, to account for the fact that relatively small amounts of flat pen are bad. But (just like hybrid pen runes huh) that could make it very OP in the early game.
Maybe a hybrid dual-pen item that builds out of 2 1500ish gold mono-pen items would work nicely - like Brut + Haunting Guise.
Sort of, but understand what I'm saying. If a hybrid pen item was added that Akali actually wanted, that would be a functional buff for her (otherwise she wouldn't care about the item, and if Akali is not caring about this hypothetical item, it's probably not worth bothering to create), same for Jax and Kayle. And if they're not comfortable buffing those champs, they only have two options: nerf the item until it ISN'T a buff for them, or nerf the champions directly.
If they nerf the item until it isn't a buff for those champs, then they've literally added an item whose best users don't really care about it. Why add that item?
(Incidentally I don't think it's true that they won't nerf champions to preserve items - actually, they tend to hit *both* at the same time, e.g. mid Lulu and Lichbane at the same time, or Jayce and Tear of the Goddess, or Blue Ezreal and Iceborn Gauntlet, or a hundred other examples)
Honestly I can't think of a way to make the item good enough to want it over things like Trinity Force, Gunblade, Nashor's Tooth, etc., but if Riot found a way to make the item, I am confident that it would be available as an alternative to say Gunblade, and not as a must buy, and thus would not necessitate a nerf. If they make it situationally powerful then they don't need to nerf anything.
Sort of, but understand what I'm saying. If a hybrid pen item was added that Akali actually wanted, that would be a functional buff for her (otherwise she wouldn't care about the item, and if Akali is not caring about this hypothetical item, it's probably not worth bothering to create), same for Jax and Kayle. And if they're not comfortable buffing those champs, they only have two options: nerf the item until it ISN'T a buff for them, or nerf the champions directly.
If they nerf the item until it isn't a buff for those champs, then they've literally added an item whose best users don't really care about it. Why add that item?
(Incidentally I don't think it's true that they won't nerf champions to preserve items - actually, they tend to hit *both* at the same time, e.g. mid Lulu and Lichbane at the same time, or Jayce and Tear of the Goddess, or Blue Ezreal and Iceborn Gauntlet, or a hundred other examples)
Honestly I can't think of a way to make the item good enough to want it over things like Trinity Force, Gunblade, Nashor's Tooth, etc., but if Riot found a way to make the item, I am confident that it would be available as an alternative to say Gunblade, and not as a must buy, and thus would not necessitate a nerf. If they make it situationally powerful then they don't need to nerf anything.
Options are power; you take away a weakness, say, which means you have one fewer weakness for your opponents to exploit.
However, pure damage mult stats like % pen are not situationally powerful; they are blanket powerful. If % pen was actually an anti-tank stat, then MAYBE it could fit that? But % pen is every bit as strong against squishy targets against tanks; as a hybrid dpser, you want to blow someone up, and % pen helps you blow someone up better.
If they did it, it would be because they found a way to fix it, but I'm pretty confident you won't see that happen.
In the same way to how damage is an anti-squishy stat, although pen is more drastically affected by mitigation yea. I mean in theory a hybrid pen item would be balanced in a way where it gives more pen each than it would if it were single pen, to account for the fact that relatively small amounts of flat pen are bad. But (just like hybrid pen runes huh) that could make it very OP in the early game.
Maybe a hybrid dual-pen item that builds out of 2 1500ish gold mono-pen items would work nicely - like Brut + Haunting Guise.
Flat pen is preferentially better against squishy targets than it is against tanky targets because of how their defense math works. You get a larger percent damage increase from it vs a low armor target than vs a high armor target.
Sort of, but understand what I'm saying. If a hybrid pen item was added that Akali actually wanted, that would be a functional buff for her (otherwise she wouldn't care about the item, and if Akali is not caring about this hypothetical item, it's probably not worth bothering to create), same for Jax and Kayle. And if they're not comfortable buffing those champs, they only have two options: nerf the item until it ISN'T a buff for them, or nerf the champions directly.
If they nerf the item until it isn't a buff for those champs, then they've literally added an item whose best users don't really care about it. Why add that item?
(Incidentally I don't think it's true that they won't nerf champions to preserve items - actually, they tend to hit *both* at the same time, e.g. mid Lulu and Lichbane at the same time, or Jayce and Tear of the Goddess, or Blue Ezreal and Iceborn Gauntlet, or a hundred other examples)
Honestly I can't think of a way to make the item good enough to want it over things like Trinity Force, Gunblade, Nashor's Tooth, etc., but if Riot found a way to make the item, I am confident that it would be available as an alternative to say Gunblade, and not as a must buy, and thus would not necessitate a nerf. If they make it situationally powerful then they don't need to nerf anything.
Options are power; you take away a weakness, say, which means you have one fewer weakness for your opponents to exploit.
However, pure damage mult stats like % pen are not situationally powerful; they are blanket powerful. If % pen was actually an anti-tank stat, then MAYBE it could fit that? But % pen is every bit as strong against squishy targets against tanks; as a hybrid dpser, you want to blow someone up, and % pen helps you blow someone up better.
If they did it, it would be because they found a way to fix it, but I'm pretty confident you won't see that happen.
Except % hybrid pen would be so ridiculously expensive under current % pen pricing that no one would buy it. It's just not worth it.
Except % hybrid pen would be so ridiculously expensive under current % pen pricing that no one would buy it. It's just not worth it.
I'm sorry - are you agreeing with me or arguing with me or...?
The original suggestion was make a good hybrid pen item that Akali would want to use. I was explaining why that's not a thing which would, imo, be good for the game. The fact that a meaningful hybrid pen item at a decent cost would be hard to build in the first place supports that, I think?
This discussion about penetration and stuff got me to the following question: what runes should I actually use now?
The thing is, I don't care one bit about this aspect of the game. I don't want to do a bunch of math and theorycrafting to figure out the best set for each champion. I just want generic runepages that I can use without thinking about them (which is what I do now). But I made my runepages long ago, and things change every now and then, so they're probably outdated and suboptimal (even for being generic runepages, which I know is somewhat suboptimal as well, but I can live with that). So, since people here probably know more about such things than I do: what are good runepages to use for each role? Let's say, tanky support (Leona), mage support (Morgana), ADC (Varus), AP mid, AD mid (Kha'Zix), bruiser top (Shyvana, Singed), AD jungler (Pantheon), tanky jungler (Amumu)? (the ones I put between brackets are the ones I most use so I'm particularly interested in pages that work for those champions, but the idea is that I can use that page for similar champs as well of course)
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
Except % hybrid pen would be so ridiculously expensive under current % pen pricing that no one would buy it. It's just not worth it.
I'm sorry - are you agreeing with me or arguing with me or...?
The original suggestion was make a good hybrid pen item that Akali would want to use. I was explaining why that's not a thing which would, imo, be good for the game. The fact that a meaningful hybrid pen item at a decent cost would be hard to build in the first place supports that, I think?
I must have lost the question. I was merely talking about the merits and demerits of a % hybrid pen item. I don't think such an item is particularly necessary, but if they could somehow have it cost within a few hundred of gunblade and have less pen on let's say the physical side, building out of pickaxe+void staff, then it is possible. It's not entirely necessary and I don't see which situations it would be beneficial for game health, so I agree with you there. You could build one against heavy tank teams with % pen working out to 35%/15% or so and I think it'd be a fine item, but you are correct in saying that it would be hard to balance, it would also probably need an active, making it more complex, or some other unique property, and there isn't a ton of need for it. It is an interesting thought exercise however.
@Tahn: You can probably get by with an AD/MR/Armor page, an all tank stats page, an AP/Mregen/CDR or tank stats page, and an AS/defenses page. Maybe MS quints on a few of the pages depending on preference. Those tend to be some of the bigger ones. I have fairly generic rune pages.
Flat pen actually increases your damage more against soft targets than hard targets. % pen increases your damage equally against both. Which means that neither form of pen is actually something that you build to counter tanky items; they're both just strong (VERY strong) multipliers on your dps.
This doesn't address anything just wrote, of course. Just a note on game math.
Flat pen actually increases your damage more against soft targets than hard targets. % pen increases your damage equally against both. Which means that neither form of pen is actually something that you build to counter tanky items; they're both just strong (VERY strong) multipliers on your dps.
This doesn't address anything just wrote, of course. Just a note on game math.
% pen is better against high armor targets. For example, 50% penetration against a 100 armor target is a 2/1.5 = 33% damage boost, while against a 200 armor target it's 3/2 = 50% damage boost.
Armor Pen is also not a linear stat, it has hyperbolic scaling instead. This means that going from 25-50% penetration is actually a larger percentage benefit in damage than going from 0-25% was and that going from 25-50 static armor penetration is a larger percentage benefit than 0-25 was.
WoW had an armor penetration formula that was equally powerful against all targets, above a chosen breakpoint equivalent to 50 armor in LoL, but it was more complicated than a simple percentage.
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BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
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Wow, nice.
I'm currently Gold V, I'm not sure if I'm good enough to be a plat player just yet. I've only been playing since last year October, and still need to expand my champ pool and stuff.
I'm in promos for Gold IV though!
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I don't think good enough for Plat is a thing. As far as I can tell, the major difference between plat and gold isn't mechanics or champion pool, it's game sense and realizing what your win conditions are. If you are allowed to take the reins and know what you're talking about, you can win games through very simple coordination and objective pressure. Mechanical skill is secondary to game sense at this level. I wish you luck in your adventures. You're definitely better than I was when I had been playing for 2/3 of a year. No one really knew how to play back then though. ^^
You can do it, as long as you keep learning nothing stops you from climbing. Everything is merely temporary, persistence definitely wins out.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
BUG Dredge BUG]
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Because itemizing for dual penetration actually kind of sucks. Outside of the runes, which are borderline OP (actually not borderline, pretty much always better than magic pen), the amount of gold value needed to make dual penetration actually worth bringing would make it so good that there wouldn't be much of a reason to take single penetration.
And when dual penetration isn't provided in hideously overpowering numbers, it's just a trap item. Hybrid champions don't take single penetration anyways because it's pretty much impossible to itemize against their damage outside of just buying health. It's better for them to just take raw damage and use their two damage sources to blast through whichever defense is weaker.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Part 2 of the answer is Riot has given up on making hybrid items, and all of the penetration items in the game (minus Liandry's) are holdovers from a looong time ago. I could've seen riot making a hybrid penetration item with very little else on it way back then, but they just didn't.
% Penetration is functionally just a multiplier on the damage you deal. Flat penetration is a specifically anti-squishy stat. I could see a hybrid pen item *if* they were going forward with more robust hybrid itemization. Are they? Any such item would instantly be a required buy on hybrid damage champs, and then they'd have to retune the hybrid damage champs around it (they would have to nerf Jax and Kayle 100%, and if the hybrid damage itemization was strong enough that you'd care about it, they'd probably have to nerf Akali as well).
Would that game be better?
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
If they nerf the item until it isn't a buff for those champs, then they've literally added an item whose best users don't really care about it. Why add that item?
(Incidentally I don't think it's true that they won't nerf champions to preserve items - actually, they tend to hit *both* at the same time, e.g. mid Lulu and Lichbane at the same time, or Jayce and Tear of the Goddess, or Blue Ezreal and Iceborn Gauntlet, or a hundred other examples)
Maybe a hybrid dual-pen item that builds out of 2 1500ish gold mono-pen items would work nicely - like Brut + Haunting Guise.
Honestly I can't think of a way to make the item good enough to want it over things like Trinity Force, Gunblade, Nashor's Tooth, etc., but if Riot found a way to make the item, I am confident that it would be available as an alternative to say Gunblade, and not as a must buy, and thus would not necessitate a nerf. If they make it situationally powerful then they don't need to nerf anything.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Options are power; you take away a weakness, say, which means you have one fewer weakness for your opponents to exploit.
However, pure damage mult stats like % pen are not situationally powerful; they are blanket powerful. If % pen was actually an anti-tank stat, then MAYBE it could fit that? But % pen is every bit as strong against squishy targets against tanks; as a hybrid dpser, you want to blow someone up, and % pen helps you blow someone up better.
If they did it, it would be because they found a way to fix it, but I'm pretty confident you won't see that happen.
Flat pen is preferentially better against squishy targets than it is against tanky targets because of how their defense math works. You get a larger percent damage increase from it vs a low armor target than vs a high armor target.
Except % hybrid pen would be so ridiculously expensive under current % pen pricing that no one would buy it. It's just not worth it.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
I'm sorry - are you agreeing with me or arguing with me or...?
The original suggestion was make a good hybrid pen item that Akali would want to use. I was explaining why that's not a thing which would, imo, be good for the game. The fact that a meaningful hybrid pen item at a decent cost would be hard to build in the first place supports that, I think?
The thing is, I don't care one bit about this aspect of the game. I don't want to do a bunch of math and theorycrafting to figure out the best set for each champion. I just want generic runepages that I can use without thinking about them (which is what I do now). But I made my runepages long ago, and things change every now and then, so they're probably outdated and suboptimal (even for being generic runepages, which I know is somewhat suboptimal as well, but I can live with that). So, since people here probably know more about such things than I do: what are good runepages to use for each role? Let's say, tanky support (Leona), mage support (Morgana), ADC (Varus), AP mid, AD mid (Kha'Zix), bruiser top (Shyvana, Singed), AD jungler (Pantheon), tanky jungler (Amumu)? (the ones I put between brackets are the ones I most use so I'm particularly interested in pages that work for those champions, but the idea is that I can use that page for similar champs as well of course)
I must have lost the question. I was merely talking about the merits and demerits of a % hybrid pen item. I don't think such an item is particularly necessary, but if they could somehow have it cost within a few hundred of gunblade and have less pen on let's say the physical side, building out of pickaxe+void staff, then it is possible. It's not entirely necessary and I don't see which situations it would be beneficial for game health, so I agree with you there. You could build one against heavy tank teams with % pen working out to 35%/15% or so and I think it'd be a fine item, but you are correct in saying that it would be hard to balance, it would also probably need an active, making it more complex, or some other unique property, and there isn't a ton of need for it. It is an interesting thought exercise however.
@Tahn: You can probably get by with an AD/MR/Armor page, an all tank stats page, an AP/Mregen/CDR or tank stats page, and an AS/defenses page. Maybe MS quints on a few of the pages depending on preference. Those tend to be some of the bigger ones. I have fairly generic rune pages.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Flat pen actually increases your damage more against soft targets than hard targets. % pen increases your damage equally against both. Which means that neither form of pen is actually something that you build to counter tanky items; they're both just strong (VERY strong) multipliers on your dps.
This doesn't address anything just wrote, of course. Just a note on game math.
% pen is better against high armor targets. For example, 50% penetration against a 100 armor target is a 2/1.5 = 33% damage boost, while against a 200 armor target it's 3/2 = 50% damage boost.
Armor Pen is also not a linear stat, it has hyperbolic scaling instead. This means that going from 25-50% penetration is actually a larger percentage benefit in damage than going from 0-25% was and that going from 25-50 static armor penetration is a larger percentage benefit than 0-25 was.
WoW had an armor penetration formula that was equally powerful against all targets, above a chosen breakpoint equivalent to 50 armor in LoL, but it was more complicated than a simple percentage.
Thanks Argentleman;)
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